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Dublin: 10 °C Saturday 18 May, 2013

Referendum will effectively decide whether Ireland wants to keep the euro – Noonan

Michael Noonan also says that only the nitty-gritty of the new European treaty will indicate whether a vote is needed.

Image: Niall Carson/PA Wire

IRELAND’S POTENTIAL REFERENDUM on whether to ratify last week’s European financial treaty will be tantamount to a vote on whether Ireland wishes to remain in the eurozone, finance minister Michael Noonan has said.

The minister for finance, speaking in London in advance of a meeting with chancellor George Osborne, said legal advisers would not be able to make a final decision on the necessity for a referendum until an original text had been put together.

Noonan told Bloomberg TV that he hoped the first draft would be completed “before Christmas,” allowing for an immediate legal assessment over the break.

Any referendum that may be required, he added, would come down “to a simple question of whether we want to continue in the euro area or not”.

He added that the Irish public was more likely to approve the deal if Ireland was first given “an arrangement on its banking debt”, allowing for bank debts to be repaid over a longer term and at a lower rate of interest. ”We have commenced that discussion,” he said.

He had told an earlier London event that Ireland’s legal advisors “won’t be able to call it until they see the text, because it’s a fine legal position in Ireland. [...] On one interpretation of what’s on the table, this can be done without constitutional change.

On the question of whether any referendum would be passed, he commented:

We have won every referendum that has been put to the Irish people – though on one [sic] occasion we had to have two goes at it… I’m not predicting, but I certainly wouldn’t like a replay.

Noonan separately commented that last night’s telephone conversation between Enda Kenny and the British prime minister David Cameron was “very full and amicable”, and that he was confident the UK would not “inhibit” the drafting of the new treaties.

Read: Noonan to meet Osborne amid concerns over Britain’s EU isolation

Poll: If there was a referendum, how would you vote on the new EU deal?

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Comments (135 Comments)

  • What happened to debt write off for anglo and the interest associated with that?. That is what this government promised before elected. Now looks like we will be told to vote yes or get out. Pathetic solution and a democratic deficit. Unless we get debt forgiveness this country is facing a 20 year depression so if its a choice I’ll take my chances outside pegging our currency to £STG and an agressive trade plan with America,The Americas,UK and China.

    Reply
  • @ Kevin…agree totally..the spin and negative horse shit is starting already….I can guarantee you they’ll run the same scare mongering campaign as they did fr Lisbon…Well as far as I’m concerned I wouldn’t believe moonlight if it shone out Noonan’s arse. I’m voting no..no..no. Now..let’s see who the first big European gun they wheel out to jackboot the Irish people? They can shove their referendum right up their collective hole!!

    Reply
  • Ed 14/12/11 #

    Noonan sticking on his bully boots again , didn’t take too long …anyone remember that poor woman from donegal he battered thru the courts regarding the hep c compensation
    Ruthless whoor

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  • Even if they allow a referendum on this, that most likely they won’t, there is always the precedent of Nice and Lisbon. If we don’t get it right the first time, they will keep on posing the question till they get a satisfactory answer. Hail glorious represantitive democracy that you are nothing more than an incognito oligarchy! In Greece for example on a similar gesture of a referendum about going back to the drachma, they end up with no referendum and a beautiful parliamentary dictatorship. At the end of the day Democracy requires the participation of each one of us, it’s an obligation. Not voting once in a blue moon fellows that promise you all just to get a warm seat in Leinster house!

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  • ”We have won every referendum that has been put to the Irish people – though on one [sic] occasion we had to have two goes at it” What a joke ! that has to be the single most embarrassing event in our political history . I mean , the rest of the world must think we are pure gobsh—s . Push overs! I will vote no and continue to do so til our sovereignty is restored.

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  • What I posted was:::: Lisbon 1&2 promised jobs prosperity and a secure future now that we have all that let’s move on to the next referendum ….
    WAKE UP IRELAND

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  • Just about the only thing that’s guaranteed is that the result of the referendum will not deliver whatever is promised by those promoting that result.

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  • In saying that they have “won” every referendum put to the people of Ireland, Noonan is clearly forgetting/choosing to ignore the referendum on oireachtas inquiries?

    Ironic that he should forget this one, it being no more than 8 weeks ago.

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    • And who is this ‘we’? Technically, the Irish people win every referendum, as the result embodies the decision of the majority.

      Personally, though, I think that ‘we’ lost each of the European treaty referenda, not only us, but all the people of Europe traded off our popular sovereignties, gaining instead a dictatorship by bureaucrats.

      Naturally, as someone who identifies with the interests of the bureaucrats, Noonan would say, ‘we’ won.

      Reply
  • I am sure that in line with their record the Irish government will insist to repeat the referendum ad nauseum until they get a “yes” votr….

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  • We will have to scrutinize the changes though. Like Lisbon and Maastricht there might be something sinister hidden in it. They know we will vote to return to the punt, so Where Is The Catch?

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  • “We have won every referendum that has been put to the Irish people – though on one [sic] occasion we had to have two goes at it… I’m not predicting, but I certainly wouldn’t like a replay”. This makes it sound like he thinks we are a bunch of idiots who can’t make up our minds. I think the reason those of us who voted NO the first time were afraid that Europe would have too much power over us and slowly we would lose our soverignty which seems to be whats happening right now. Those that changed their minds and voted YES the second time around were conned into thinking we would be left behind if we didn’t vote YES. Personally, I think I would prefer to be left behind that be in the mess we are in right now, owing billions to the IMF with the euro reportedly on the brink of collapse. We no longer control our political destiny. We have already seen Enda Kenny having to run to Germany to okay the budget with Merkel. Whats next?

    Anyway…..Noonan may think we are a bunch of idiots who can’t make up our minds but I, for one, will be voting against staying in the Euro Zone if we are given a say and if they make us vote a second time, I will still vote no. We may have benefited in the past being part of the EU but it seems to me we have paid a high price for that. Kinda like selling our soul to the devil for thirty pieces of silver. Call me cynical but there is always a catch…….

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  • Well if all Noonan can offer is the hope “for bank debts to be repaid over a longer term and at a lower rate of interest.” He can go whistle not our debt get the EU to write off the €31 billion lent to Anglo and forget the €17 billion in interest for that ‘loan’ and I might consider a possible yes based on what the referendum contains. Until then no.

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  • Read the comment by Noonan carefully. He is basically saying that if Ireland does need a referendum and votes no you can be assured we will have referendum number two to get the “right” vote. Say goodbye to democracy.

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    • He also says “We have WON every referendum that has been put to the Irish people”.
      Referendums are not for winning, they are for the people to make a decision (or at least in a functioning democracy they are). The arrogance of these people is disgusting.

      Reply
    • I was a member of fine gael, not anymore. This carry on is disgusting. These are the people that we elected to represent Ireland and instead we get lapdogs who jump every time Europe tells them to. Spineless arrogant cowards.

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    • Welcome back from the darkness Jason. ;)

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    • He is an absolute scum bag. I hope we collectively stand up to this SOBs and say enough is enough with their scare tactics. How dare this filthy pig make this into a competition where the majority are ‘them’ and the elite are ‘us’. If ever anyone needed a wake up call its this boar.

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    • We said goodbye to democracy when we were all duped by Gilmores gang before the last election! Union members in the private sector should insist that their Union no longer makes donations to Labour! They’ve become a national embarrassment.

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    • Stop blaming Labour for the mess. I can assure you it would have been a much harsher budget without them. I’m raging with them too but I’ll continue to aim at the Generals – not the foot soldiers

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    • Reada!
      I’ve been following your steadily faltering loyalty to the Labour Party for a while now and I’m worried for you. To see such loyalty dry and wither in the face of so much abandonment of the glorious principals of Connelly and Larkin is heartwrenching.
      May I, in the interest of offering some solace, remind you that this is nothing new and the ease at which the Labour can shed it’s principals are a long tradition especially evident in the days of Dick Spring and his betrayal of loyal supporters like yourself in his deal with Albert Reynolds.
      Come on Reada let them have it with the rest of us. Watch the language though!

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    • It is out of loyalty to Connolly and Larkin that I refuse to allow the great to appear great. I am not on my knees. I have risen. Nor will I serve King nor Kaiser. ;)

      I’ll leave it at that. I’m a loyal kinda idealist. But I’d love to give them a good shake up alright. But I’ll always aim at those highest up the ladder.

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    • And my language had been exemplary today. I’m expecting a gold star from Susan!

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    • F**k me you deserve it! That kinda restraint deserves some recognition.

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  • Give us a referendum now. I cannot wait

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  • So the central bank rumours were true then.

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  • A lot will depend on how Greece fares out over the coming months and the news last night from the IMF contained dire predictions for the future. It does not make sense to hold any referendum on any treaty with fiscal implications until the Greek situation is put on a very long term stability plan or else defaults. Austerity is not working anywhere in Europe. It is pushing small businesses and families over a cliff. Noonan gives out the spiel about Ireland returning to the bind markets, but who really believes that a country with about 20% unemployment, when the further education groups are added in, will attract a lot of cheap money from private investors.

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  • … and so the scare mongering begins! Let’s hope that the electorate can see past the cheap tactics that are to come from both the EU and our own government on our position in the EU and the single currency.

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    • Expect the carrot and stick approach again.

      Hints or outright statements of worst scenarios if we say “No” along with supposed “pluses” or advantages if we say “Yes”.
      Just like every other previous time, we have to ask ourselves if what they say/promise to the public in their sales pitch & scare tactics, is actually going to come about.
      For saying “Yes” – has all previous “benefits” come about?

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    • Let the spin begin.

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    • Exactly they are now trying on the same crap they did with the Greeks. There is no legal basis to make a referendum a question of whether we remain in the eurozone. in fairness I think we would be better off out of it in the long run and this sort of bullying fake democracy is one of the reasons why. I only hope the Irish people are smart enough to see that.

      Reply
  • Listen to this 52 mins in for an alternative currency arrangement. We need to resist the scare mongering gun to the head politics that seems to be the basis of passing European treaties.

    Reply
  • Paul 14/12/11 #

    I would say if all the people of the eurozone where to be ask they would look to get out. bring it on

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  • Sean 14/12/11 #

    Short term debt forgiveness should not form quid pro quo for a permanent fiscal system

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    • Why not? If we save €20billion and therefore reduce the horrendous levels of austerity required over the next decade I say go for it. The eurozone will need to be reshaped anyway after this new treaty because it just won’t work. That could be 5 years away though, so why not take advantage of this right now. If instead we leave euro/eu then we’re more screwed over the same period of time. It’s all about where we will be in 10 years time. Take what we can now because either way the future really isn’t in our hands.

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    • Sean 14/12/11 #

      Well reducing austerity (although I doubt this as most of the austerity is based on a structural deficit and we’re already getting that money at cost price so I don’t believe it would have as much effect as some migth say) for a decade on the basis of a permanent agreement that will shape our budget forever is short sighted in the extreme.

      Yes the EU will need reshaping but again it’s short sighted to do a bad reform (although judgement should be reserved for final text of the agreement) for money instead of doing a well though out reform in five years.

      Our future is in our hands on this one and when we’re talking about entering into a permanent fiscal structure it is most certainly not about where we will be in ten years time, unless you take the tack that we can always drop out, and this is unlikely based on history

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    • Inda, no way.

      If they take non-sovereign debt away from us, then – and only then – will I consider saying Yes – and that’d be only after as much consideration as I can possibly give.

      As for Noonan, how dare he start this kind of scaremongering. No-one yet knows what form the text will take (if it ever happens i.e. if the euro hasn’t collapsed/split by the end of next spring) so this kind of statement proves him to be ridiculous. And wasn’t it reported very recently that he personally owns German bonds?

      Reply
  • My problem is the bare faced lies our politicians told us ….. VOTE for jobs that’s what gets to me ….

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  • They seem to have a plan of action already.
    Noonan begins with telling us this is a vote on continued membership of the EU currency which is a lie, a downright lie designed to whip up images of 40 years isolation and financial catastrophe, and the second stage will be to wheel out bankers, CEO’s and whoever else has a vested interest in this treaty to explain the unimaginative horrors we will face including the massive ray gun the EU has pointing at us in case we don’t bow down and prostrate ourselves at the altar of mercozy.

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  • There’s is no way in hell they will allow a referendum on this…. No way…. And if by some freak of nature they do…. then expect economic Armageddon as punishment from our Overlord bankster masters if we do vote no… Ireland may have to take a bullet to show Europes true undemocratic colors…

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  • Here comes the scare mongering again!!

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  • Michael Noonan’s loyalties lie with the EPP and not with this country, FG are adamant that we continue to hold the pathetic mantle of “good little Europeans” at whatever cost.

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  • Lisbon 1 & Lisbon 2, promised jobs prosperity and a secure economy now that we have all that let’s move on to the next referendum

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    • Hence their reluctance to offer us a referendum straight off – they understand now the folly of continually lying to us, they knew back in Lisbon 1 and 2 that the treaty has absolutely no provisions for job creation and used the worries of job losses to their advantage, we have nothing to lose now by voting now and seemingly the only threat the can make is us having to leave the euro prematurely but seeing as it’s a lame duck already that shouldn’t hold any sway.

      Reply
  • mike 14/12/11 #

    Irish Government prepare to Lie and use deception on the people again to get there own self serving way.

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  • Let’s get of the euro. It has failed. Austerity doesn’t work. We need growth. A vote for the euro is a vote for austerity forever.

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  • I think It was Fine Gael, who in the campaign for the Lisbon treaty, had posters up with a sign pointing to a no vote saying “this way to economic ruin”..the other side had posters up saying that it paved the way for the loss of our sovereignty, yet the latter were written off as crazy conspiracy theorists. We are no better off then we were back then, as we are still in economic ruin, with wasted billions thrown into toxic banks. Now fiscal union is being pushed for and once a country loses control of their economy, they lose control of their sovereignty. You don’t have to look to far to see who was right. To many hours are spent wasted listening to the rhetoric
    Of politicians that don’t have a clue. Maybe the document should also be printed in “English” so people who are not politicians and lawyers, would be able to read and understand it. More chance of finding the truth than listening to people with vested interests.

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  • Ciaro 14/12/11 #

    Noonan you are a two faced scaremongering bully, There is no way that the Irish people will pass this.

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  • Good pal of mine from Carrickmacross just told me..
    try this with a Monaghan accent

    “Noonan, ya can kiss the butt-end of me balls”

    Hilarious!

    Reply
  • In my opinion, bringing back the punt would 1. Renew a sense of national pride. 2. Force politicians to perform better as ‘our hands are tied’ would no longer be an excuse. While I recognise there are a number of economic consequences, I do not believe what Europe tells me, so I am unsure what is the best course of action. If we had voted no to Lisbon the second time, the current state of affairs would no doubt be blamed on the ‘No’ vote. I don’t believe our own politicians either mind you, but in saying that, at least we can call them up on matters a lot easier. We are a very stubborn people, all the scaremongering might give us the fuel to prove them wrong.

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  • The choice is sticking with a currency that has 7 countries in Europe flirting with bankrupture and that has turned the banking system of Europe in to an insolvent mess. That has locked nealry 40% of the population of the Eurozone in to a permanent uncompetitive position or countries turn their backs on this and work together with viable currencies.

    Whatever the problems of the Mark, Lira and Franc, they are only a fraction of the political currency that is the Euro.

    The Little Europeans will crow about the Euro and its benefits, will vote yes for this treaty because it has a blue flag on it, but they will not offer solutions to the debt crisis that has engulfed Eurozone countries. They will not face up to the insolvent banking sectors of Austria, France and Germany. The last of which has nearly 450bn in non performing loans.

    Hum “Ode to Joy” all you like and wave the blue flag but the no’s cannot be worked around.

    The EU will die a death, rolling it back to an EEC, where individual countries can work and prosper together, in respect and equal standing, something that is further and further from the current reality every day. The EU/ECB are always fighting the last war.

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    • Bankrupture?

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    • I’d be dead happy to see your last paragraph play out. I have always been against this United Europe, it seems to have been crafted in the similar manner the USA was formed, by deceit and fancy wording of treaties. Add financial integration to the mix resulting in an easier method to further consolidate power from independent countries with threats of collapse and all to consolidate federal power that holds corporate and institutions interests ahead of the peoples.
      A Texas governor words on he matter. The parallel is strikingly similar to what’s happening over here.
      http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/39994237/ns/today-books/t/why-texas-gov-rick-perry-fed/#.TuicVnqMoY0

      I’m all for going back to the EEC, the manner by which this happens is what’s now important. As to continue with the Euro and the current Lisbon treaty and what ever else they plan to append to it to further increase our bind and dependence on the beast needs to come to an end.
      As Dermot says above “full fiscal surrender and perpetual austerity.” is all we have to look forward to for generations to come, and who is to say this is the bottom, we have been progressively drawn further into this mess by the people who want more control.
      Anything is better in the long run than just pleasing Europe and continuing this charade any longer. Look past the quick fixes and think where we are actually going. No where good.

      Reply
    • Bankrupture
      Painful-sounding variant of bankruptcy. An Italian moneylender of the 14th century would often work outdoors on a wooden bench called a bancas, which would be physically destroyed if the banker became insolvent. That process, called bancarotto, was adopted into French in the 1500s as banqueroute and in to English shortly thereafter. The second half of this word was exchanged for Latin ruptus, “broken,” in the 1530s, giving rise to such variations as bankruptism until the word settled into its present form.

      Count that Count. ;0

      Reply
    • Though admittedly it is not a variant of the concept that is used as much nowadays.

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    • @tim – This Count is all for learning something new ( it’s the Sesame St. way ) :–)

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  • just keep voting no. consequences can’t be worse than the economic desert we remain stuckiin now.

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  • Don’t believe the hype!!!!!……..they will word the referendum as confusing as possible!!!……but the answer should still be NO,until they sort out the debt problem,the power is in our hands to show the government how we really feel!!!!!!!

    Reply
    • The thing is green, we have a very good hand to play over this treaty but as Lucinda cretin said on the front line – Ireland has never upset the apple cart in EU affairs and has no intention of doing so which translates as “we’re more than happy to go along with whatever is put to us no matter how unpalatable it is to Irish people and regardless of the damage it may do to the country, we’re good little Europeans aren’t we?”

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    • On the contrary, the wording for the referendum will be quite simple – “Do you approve of the proposal to amend the Constitution contained in the undermentioned Bill?”. It’s the Bill and all the other stuff appended & related to it will be a ball of unintelligible crap.

      Reply
  • Explain the situation to a class of primary school kids, get them to vote and we enact their decision…

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  • John 14/12/11 #

    Just say NO.

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  • NO!

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    • CJ Ryan 14/12/11 #

      Actually in all fairness, the treaty won’t be finalised until March. Give a few months for ratification by referendum and the damn thing may not be signed off on until the middle of the year.

      The question is… will the euro survive with all 17 members at that stage?

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    • It will be a year before it is implemented and even at that, there is nothing in it that deals with the crisis at hand.

      It will be forgotten by Christmas.

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    • definitely No. a mandatory referendum could save our hides by providing bartering leverage with this yellow bellied government. the bloody cheek of him ‘we’ve won every referendum but once we had to have two goes at it”.

      Reply
  • If corporation tax goes up, the country is finished.

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  • Handy and all as the euro is for traveling, if it makes more sense to peg to sterling because of a similar economic cycle – then it will be no/out from me. (the bribe on the debt reduction will need to be substantial and significantly upfront to change my mind).

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    • It would have to be a pegged to several currencies. The British economy is a very different beast to ours, we would only be going for a different set of problems. Link to it, among others but not solely ,

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    • Stg will be next hit

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    • But will the markets accept a punt pegged to euro, sterling, krona, dollar and backed whatever gold the national
      Museum has? Effectively, is the choice not gambling on staying in the euro or a gamble on pegging with sterling? (which, as an aside, wouldn’t be bad for the development of an all-Ireland economy).

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    • How would pegging to several currencies be a gamble. It has a long and proven track record.

      Currency unions like the Euro do not have a track record and given that with a decade of existence, half of Europe is broke and Germany and France’s banks are drowning in worthless debt. At this stage the Euro is the worst option long term for Europe and the world economy.

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  • The referendum is a sham. There is no democracy without fiscal autonomy.

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  • Thanks, Gis. I agree, Yosser. The other thing is that FG and Labour both told us that a vote for them would be a vote for change. What I want to know is what has changed? When is it going to change? Not anytime soon unless we start standing up for ourselves. What i mean by that is us, the people standing up to the politicians we elected to look after our interests and those politcians standing up to the EU on our behalf.

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  • howzat 14/12/11 #

    I’m sure it will be passed after the 7th time when teacher threatens us

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  • Why not just let the people vote now?

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  • Ian, I doubt they will let the people vote at all if they can get away without calling a referndum. They’re not completely stupid. They know how we feel at this stage. Even if they do have a referendum and we vote no, they will do the very same thing that the last government did and make us vote again all the while strongly suggesting we will lose out if we don’t vote yes in the second one. Hopefully scare tactics won’t work this time though……

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  • If it means The 3 Stooges – Cardiff,Lacy Creten, De Rossa will be left out on the street in Europe someplace I will vote no. These guys would prostitute their mother to get power – sorry I meant to say they have prostituted the Irish people every man woman and child for decades to come. I hope they freeze to death out in the wilderness.

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  • Bring back the punt happier days!

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  • TLDR summary is below:
    All these comments about ‘letting the spin begin’ and preparing for our government to lie to us about how important it is we vote yes proves only one thing: The No side is already out in force. And seems to be populated by petulant children. And all these references to Lisbon and the bailout as reasons to avoid europe? A: That was technically the last government, not this one,(Although all parties supported it) and B: Okay, the pro-lisbon spin was inaccurate, as the referendum wasn’t about jobs but streamlining some of the mechanisms of the EU and the no sides spin was even worse and more scaremongering.

    I don’t care if the euro falls or if we leave it, I have no savings, I have no debt, and I could leave this country tomorrow and start over elsewhere if it came to it. But we really should not leave the euro until after it falls. If it falls.

    If we leave the euro, the punt will immediately devalue against it, by a massive amount, and that devaluing of the punt will strengthen the Euro. We will be forced to accept full responsibility for the irresponsibility of the Irish, english, and german banks which has caused our crisis. Alone. The english and germans will be let off.

    By staying in the euro we force the eurozone as a whole to deal with the irresponsibility of the eurozones banks, they can (and have) scapegoat us to an extent, but they cannot let us fall.

    TLDR?

    By leaving the euro we make it easier for the euro to recover without us, and lose the benefits of a recovered euro. The only viable way through the crisis is either drag europe down with us, or for the euro to recover. Neither of those goals can be achieved from outside the euro.
    Leaving the euro is akin to dousing ourselves in petrol and setting fire to ourselves to keep Merkozy warm.

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    • Going back to our own currency and devaluing is not the end of the world and has many many positives especially for someone like you who has no debt or mortgage, we will become the most competitive country in Europe, this scare is just as bad, it was spun to Iceland, we would end up buying Irish again not because of patriotism but cause its so cheap to do so, our export market would grow massively, it would cost companies and multinationals alot less to employ people here and it would be an extremely cheap country to visit,I understand your POV of course and there are positives and negatives for staying and leaving the euro but please give both sides, leaving the euro currency and (not Europe) devaluing and going back to the punt has massive advantages.

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    • Well hear hear to you too Jeasus for improving on yesterday’s comment. Thumbs up this time. ;)

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    • Big thumbs up for JeasusBigBalls there. It’s quite refreshing to read this, as opposed to the scaremongering that we normally get. Good on ya.

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    • JeasusBigBalls The most compelling argument I have heard for getting out of the Euro . I absolutely agree with you .

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  • Leave the Euro and peg the “punt nua” to the pound sterling. Problem solved.

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  • Regarding the picture on this story – Is Noonan doing a German accent to go with his Hitler finger mustache ??

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  • Someone please explain what Ireland would gain by ganging up with Cameron’s Britain, against the Euro solely because the City of London (from where attacks against the Euro generate) would have to conform to European regulations, thus ruling out future attempts on the Euro from London.

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  • Not what I posted journal.

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    • Dolores – we don’t edit any comments; if what appears above isn’t want you submitted, send me an email – gavan@thejournal.ie – and I’ll check it out.

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    • Maybe not gavin, but you are deleting comments at an increasingly alarming rate. And without ever giving an explanation why? Not good on a (supposedly) open forum like this.

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    • Noddy – Anecdotally I haven’t personally had to delete any increased number of comments recently, but our attempt to provide an open forum has to come with certain conditions, as are outlined in our comments policy.

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    • Gavan . I had 2 comments removed yesterday because I used the word sh!t and gob…t. (better not say them again … just in case) and they were not directed at a commentator. I read the rules again last night and they state that bad language is not a proviso for removing comments, once not directed at someone. My bad language was hardly that bad? And it says 3 strikes and I’ll be blacklisted? Me. I’m a flecking harmless eegit.

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    • @Réada
      I’m a flecking harmless eegit.

      Hey, no fair… no personal attacks!!.. even if they are personal ;)

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    • :P

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    • Gavin, it appears to me that even midly offensive comments get deleted (not just my own – this is not a personal crusade). Ye have a fabulous site and forum here, but if ye are not prepared to allow expressions of the palpable anger, disgust and despair that exists in our society today, then ye run the risk of becoming another banal political talking shop, and I would guess the vast majority of contributors on here don’t want that. I accept there needs to be some sort of moderation, but offensive language and expletives are part of our everyday language (like it or not) and the Journal needs to reflect that. IMHO.

      PS keep up the otherwise great work.

      Reply
    • Just to add my two bits on vanishing posts: I’m using the IPhone app to read The Journal, and posts do vanish now and again. Some may have been removed by the moderators because of objectionable content, but other ” vanishings” seem to be random. I’ve always taken this to be a technical glitch rather than an editorial decision. It’s a pain but technology is very rarely perfect.

      @tim – This count is all for learning something new ( it’s the Sesame St. way ) :-)

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    • Well said Noddy. It is ridiculous. I love beautiful poetic language but at times a few expletives are necessary to drive home a point and express frustration or anger.

      An expletive is only an arrangement of the letters in the alphabet. I agree that some shouldn’t be allowed – ones that are racist or extremely sexually demeaning but there is no consistency ATM. I read plenty last night with far worse language than I had used.

      Perhaps you could clarify. It was Susan deleted then (not my fav Susan Daly :) ).

      Reply
    • John – just to explain; the current iPhone app only supports 50 comments at a time, and the Android app 30. Other comments aren’t ‘deleted’, rather they aren’t loaded.

      There’s a new version of the apps coming in January which will address this.

      Reply
    • @Gavin – thanks, good to know. Didn’t mean to grumble, I just wanted to point out that missing posts does not necessarily censorship..

      Reply
  • What a surprise, as usual the baying mob are out whining about voting No before even seeing the referendum.

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    • Well Eoghan, when a treaty is drafted by a certain Angela Merkel – (who single handedly forced us from the markets and into a EU bailout)….and a certain Mr Sarcozy – (who has an unhealthy obsession with our corporation tax) and was preliminarily approved by a certain Mr Kenny – (a lap dog for the previous two and a renowned liar) then you can be sure that this treaty will not benefit us in any way only lead us to full fiscal surrender and perpetual austerity.

      Reply
  • Just wondering what will happen to all the people who are on tracker mortgages if we say no. I assume it will no longer exist if we leave the euro. Just a question

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  • Excellent idea – putting it up to those who are engaged in xenophobic nonsense about the EU. Our exports to the wider EU are greater than to the UK so it makes perfect sense to remain within the currency union with our major trading partners. We need to remember where Ireland was before we joined the EU in 1973 and how far we have travelled since then with the assistance of our European partners.

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  • The headline is misleading.

    I read the article expecting something else.

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  • Anyone who votes No should in future be paid in magic beans (aka punt nua).

    Reply

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