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Dublin: 5 °C Friday 24 May, 2013

Mullen warns of ‘double-think’ on X Case after Newtown massacre

Rónán Mullen says it is “appropriate” to express sympathy with the shooting victims, but that unborn children should not be thought of differently.

SENATOR RÓNÁN MULLEN has warned his Seanad colleagues not to slip into “double-think” in condemning last week’s shootings in Newtown, Connecticut while also advocating the introduction of a new legal framework for abortion.

Speaking in the Seanad this afternoon, the NUI senator said he was ‘troubled’ that children’s minister Frances Fitzgerald, speaking in the Dáil yesterday on the report of the Expert Group into the A, B and C case, had not mentioned the welfare of unborn children.

Mullen was speaking after several other senators, in the Seanad’s first day back after the weekend, had expressed shock and sympathy at Friday’s events at Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown in which 27 people, including 20 young children, were shot dead.

“I find entirely appropriate that we would join in solidarity with the people, with the children who died in Connecticut,” Mullen said. “Let’s be sincere about that.

“And let’s not slip into a double-think either, however, where we forget a whole category of children in our own country.

“The government has a very serious decision to make in these weeks and months on the abortion issue, as we all know.

“I find it very troubling that having done so well as Minister for Children, that Minister Frances Fitzgerald – in her speech yesterday – appeared to show no concern for unborn children,” he said, prompting heckles and jeers from members on the government benches.

Moving onto yesterday’s comments from the UN special rapporteur on the right to health, Anand Grover, who had told RTÉ News that abortions should be available to women not only where their lives were at risk, but also where their health could be adversely affected.

Grover had said what had happened to Savita Halappanavar, the Indian woman who died at a Galway hospital in October after being refused a termination of her stillborn foetus, “would never happen in India”.

“How dare we call Ireland’s maternal care into question and make comparisons to India,” asked Mullen, “when India is in fact a death trap for women in terms of maternal care?”

This prompted further scorn from the government benches, with Labour’s Susan O’Keeffe asking: “And how could you link the children in Connnecticut to this debate? How could you do that?”

Mullen said he wished “to promote a culture of best care for mother and children – two patients.”

The Cabinet this morning discussed its plan of action on how to respond to the Expert Group’s report, and is expected to recommend a ‘legislation plus regulations’ approach to addressing the legal uncertainty in the area.

Read: Cabinet to discuss plan of action for new abortion rules

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Comments (137 Comments)

  • Dodge 18/12/12 #

    His election to the Seanad reflects very poorly on NUI graduates

    Using the murder of 20 school children to push his anti-abotion agenda is about as low as anyone could go.

    Reply
  • What a tool trying to link a shooting massacre as legislating for abortions to save women’s lives

    Reply
    • Perhaps the connection was not as clear to you. He linked death with death. Every death is sad. Every life is worth living. In a culture where life is not valued, life becomes expendable. Hope this clarifies the “link” for you:)

      Reply
    • I understand what he was trying to do but the fact is that these two things are a million miles apart.

      Reply
    • @ Maire Ni B, there is a gulf of qualitative difference between a 6 or 7 year old child and a foetus. There is a gulf of qualitative difference between a disturbed homicidal male and a clinician applying a medical procedure. The circumstances of each are so obviously disparate and distinctively different that your lame attempt to equate the two discredits your case.

      Every human tragedy is separate and distinct. To accuse those who express compassion over one heart wrenching tragedy of double speak over a supposed ignoring of a qualitatively different matter demonstrates absence of empathy, false logic and extremism.

      It is important thought that the pro-life extremists show us your full nature.

      Reply
    • Dodge 18/12/12 #

      How f***ing dare you put a smiley face at the end of that post Máire Ní Bheirn

      Reply
    • Guess Mary Byrne sounds less impressive until you Gaelgoir it up a bit…pull yer head in Maire Ni B. Ireland is a very different nation to what either you or Sullen Mullen would like it to be. Now as for that Vatican mouthpiece deftly described as “The Pope’s Poodle”, entitled to your opinion Ronan but it stinks of controversy for the sake of publicity. Back to the bell, book and candle you odious little man.

      Reply
    • Oh lord, Márie is here again!

      Reply
    • Ah Marie…one of Sullen Mullen’s loyal footsoldiers. Predictably pro- Ronan and pro-life.

      Reply
  • Reg 18/12/12 #

    If any excuse is needed to get rid of the Seanad, Mullen is it!

    Reply
  • I love this man, he does more for the pro-choice argument than any amount of resources could ever do. He’s basically Youth Defence at their most twisted in human form with a platform. You keep being you Senator Crazypants.

    Reply
  • This man makes me feel angry everytime i see his mush. Who the Hell does he think he is. Linking that awful tragedy to our abortion legislation is both wrong and absolutely disgusting. This whatever has no morals or decency. Run in a proper election mullen with those ideas and see what happens.

    Reply
  • So Ronan Mullen tries to connect the massacre of children with abortion,
    just like the Westboro Baptist Church have done.

    Says it all really…

    Reply
  • So speaks the former spokesman and communication adviser for the Archdiocese of Dublin in relation to the suppression of clerical child abuse.

    It is as frightening as it is revolting that this zealot fails to distinguish between a foetus and a real live child.

    The storm troopers are assembling. These guys will play dirty. I saw the Youth Defence League get out of a van in Molesworth Street in 1983 , carrying Hurley sticks. They make 50,000 phone calls to TDs and they actually scare politicians who are not naturally in support of their fascist agenda.

    I feel profound sadness for the victims in Newtown and I think that it is an obscenity that this unelected Senator should seek to exploit that terrible tragedy for his own agenda. What a horrible and thoroughly in humane individual he is. He has surrendered his last vestige of tiny legitimacy.

    Reply
    • “….I think that it is an obscenity that this unelected Senator should seek to exploit that terrible tragedy for his own agenda. ”
      1. Sen Mullen was elected.
      2. The agenda is not his. It is a human right’s agenda. The issue is life. Every life is worth the living.

      Reply
    • 1. He wasn’t elected by the people, the senate is an elitist institution.
      2. The issue isn’t life, it isn’t even religious obscurantism, its catholic obscurantism and the belief that you people still have a right to dictate to other people what they can and can’t do with their lives/bodies etc.

      Reply
    • Marie, he was not democratically elected. He was elected by a very narrow demographic of NUI graduates and that is undemocratic and anti democratic in itself. Did he declare his pro-life agenda in seeking election.

      Universities are supposed to be centres of enlightenment and education not organs of the Roman Catholic Church.

      Your argument about life assumes the result. It also ignores my point about the obscenity of drawing equivalence between entirely different events where one of those events, the slaughter of those young children and women was an act of perverse and tragic cruelty. To compare abortion with that massacre is not just false reasoning, it is reprehensible and perverse.

      That said, Senator Mullen and your are infallible, all knowing, speak for the Pope and God and are not subject to the laws of reason and logic.

      Reply
    • Paul 18/12/12 #

      I have voted in every general and presidential election and every referendum I was eligible for but like most graduates I know who are entitled to vote, I chose not to as I disagree with the elitism of NUI and Trinity graduates having a vote when others don’t and I felt using that extra vote would be endorsing this absurd and pointless elitism. This god-botherer makes me rethink that stance.

      Reply
  • The popes poodle in Ireland – remember this man was not elected by any popular franchise

    Reply
  • Mullen is a fascist with some sickening far-right views. Luckily, he is alone in the Oireachtas in his extremism – which is just as well, as I would consider him a dangerous man.

    Reply
  • Run for election or keep your ideas to yourself, sick of this muppet

    Reply
  • The sad thing is that this loon is on the board of management of CEIST (Catholic Education Irish Schools Trust) which runs the countries secondary schools. So this loon has far more say over what our kids are thought then most people in the country and he also has a say on the hiring the firing of teachers according to the principle:

    “Future staff, on recruitment, will be required to subscribe to the core values and practices of CEIST schools,” i.e. the lunitic stuff he preaches.

    We are along way from getting the Catholic church out of our schools yet!

    Reply
    • @ Dave, that is very disturbing information. Mr Mullen is a sinister individual and it is good that you have revealed this information. It gives him very substantial influence and in light of his utterances, that is very unsettling.

      Reply
    • sakipol 18/12/12 #

      Sinister?

      Reply
    • Sorry, they are not your schools; they were started by and belong to the Holy Catholic Church, which has existed long before this free-state and will outlast it!

      Reply
    • “Holy Catholic Church”

      You mean child molesters and apologists

      Reply
    • Sharrow 18/12/12 #

      http://www.ceist.ie/_uploads/_ckpg/files/Members%20And%20Directors%20of%20CEIST/CEIST%20Board%20of%20Directors%2030-11-2012.pdf

      “Mr. Rónán Mullen Rónán is a native of Ahascragh, Co. Galway. He is a member of Seanad
      Éireann, representing National University of Ireland (NUI) graduates,
      having been elected at the first attempt in 2007.
      He is a barrister and lectures in Law and Communications at the Institute
      of Technology, Blanchardstown. He is a frequent commentator in the
      media and has written weekly columns for the Irish Daily Mail and
      previously the Irish Examiner.
      Rónán worked in the Communications Office of the Dublin diocese from
      1996 to 2001 and acted as a spokesman for the Archbishop and the
      diocese during that time.
      He was Academic and Student Affairs Officer at Dundalk RTC from 1994
      to 1996 and President of the Students Union, NUI Galway from 1991 to
      1992.
      Rónán is also a member of the Corporate Board of Management of
      Daughters of Charity Community Services, a community education
      agency of the Daughters of Charity in Dublin’s City Centre. “

      Reply
    • Stewball last time I checked this country Ireland was a republic. The people are sovereign above anything and own the constitution to amend it as they please through a vote. Yes we have our problems but the people were here long before Rome and will remain long after.

      Reply
  • Did they also sympathise with the 20 child victims in China from last week?

    Reply
  • disgusted by this man’s comments but from my experience, the pro life people will stoop to the lowest of lows to sgick, scare and bully people

    Reply
  • NUI graduate? Can’t abide having Ronan Mullen represent you? Register here so you can not vote for him next time out.

    http://www.nui.ie/elections/seanad-register.asp

    Reply
  • Does anyone else look at Mullen and see a 9 year old boy jumping up and down shouting “Look at me! Look at me!”?

    Reply
    • No.
      I see someone speaking up for life.
      Life is for living folks.
      On this page I see a lot of angry men….not sure why everyone who speaks up for life is subject to such abuse. Go get a life!

      Reply
    • @ Maire, the fact that many men are angry is that every woman is a mother, daughter, sister, aunt, friend, partner and many men value one woman, even a woman who is a total stranger, are more valuable and more valued than all the foetuses in the world. The point is that many men are capable of distinguishing between a foetus and a 6 or 7 year old child or between a foetus and a mother.

      The lives we get are the lives of others.

      Reply
    • Savita was a living ‘folk’.

      Her widower remains one.

      But you can self-righteously squat on their right to a life together and another chance to try to build a family in a hostile world.

      Grow up.

      Reply
  • This is outrageous. Disgusting even. Shame on you Ronan Mullen.

    Reply
  • This guy is a complete effing moron

    Reply
  • What an absolute pillock Mullen is, his gibberish and obnoxious methods sicken me.

    Reply
  • Mullen is both consistently offensive and an embarrassment to the people who elected him.

    Reply
  • Scarlet for him. What a tool.

    Reply
  • How on earth has this gombeen managed to get a platform in public.
    Why is he there?

    Reply
  • Paul 18/12/12 #

    His comments are the meanderings of a lunatic

    Reply
  • The more you delve deeper into the thinking “Pro-Life” People, you get caught everytime by the fact they simply just don’t give a shit about Women.

    Reply
    • @Nicholas, you’re right. Even the women don’t care about women. I’ve just heard some lunatic from the Iona Institute on Matt Cooper. Its amazing how little ‘pro-life’ representatives don’t care about the lives and minds of women.

      Reply
    • The Iona Institute rides again! Storm troopers for the RC Church and ably assisted by the Life Institute, the older Youth Defence League, and the five Bishops.

      Ireland needs to relegate these fundamentalists and reactionaries into the past.

      We need a Referendum. The will of the people needs to be consulted.

      Reply
    • @Peter I would agree about the referendum except for the fact that we’ve already had two and it took successive governments 20 years (and a personal tragedy) to do anything about it.

      Reply
    • Irish Red, fair points you make and the delays have been appalling but I think that we are at the point now of game change.

      The two referenda were too narrow because they were not allowed to detract from Article 40.3.3 . If Article 40.3.3 is repealed, Sections 58 and 59 of the Offences Against the Person Act, 1861 will likely be held to be repugnant to the Constitution. This is why Article 40.3.3 was introduced in the first place.

      It’s a really bad idea inserting pro-life provisions into a Constitution. It’s too blunt an approach and it can place women’s lives at risk.

      Reply
    • @Peter ok I see where you’re coming from. I would be in favour of such a change, if they could somehow enforce the changes within a certain time limit of the referendum being passed (as I assume it would be). Otherwise we will end up with the same cycle of inactivity.

      Reply
  • That Mullen chap is a ignorant moron of the highest order. These religious nuts need to be chopped down to size. Sickening.

    Reply
  • I have never seen a picture of him with his mouth actually shut.

    Reply
  • Wait till we hear all the un elected freeloaders in the Senate talking about the USA while collecting pensions and easy money from the poor Irish people.

    Reply
  • Come on, public representatives like Mullen and Mulherin lend comedic value to the proceedings. We need active members of the Irish inquisition to talk as much as they possibly can about topics such as the grace of God, the fallen and fornication. Live performances in both the Dail and the Seanad are especially interesting when these holy rollers take to the podium.

    Just to think that not so long ago these comedians spoke for what was the majority of the Irish nation. Now they speak for a small minority of religious zealots bent on babbling their support for such individuals through mouthfuls of liquidized lunch.

    Reply
  • It was a stupid comment to make and not to be defended and I’m more pro life thinking than pro choice

    Reply
  • What a disgusting turd of a man, to link the murders in the US with the issue of abortion in Ireland, how low can these anti-choice extremists go? Mullen is precisely the kind of ‘tea party’ freak that is out of control in the US, the god bothering, gun crazy, preppers and end of days religious nuts are all part of a dangerous section of the US population who have allowed the gun culture to get all out of proportion to the original section in the US constitution which refers to the ‘right to bear arms’ automatic and semi automatic guns were not around when that was framed, I doubt of those founding fathers would have put such a clause in had they realised where it would lead. As for Mullen, what the vile murder of these schoolchildren has to do with the upcoming x case clarification is just not comparable, he is just using the deaths to push his own anti-choice agenda, what a ***t!

    Reply
  • Brian 18/12/12 #

    Mullen is rotten to the core. He will enjoy the outrage, that’s what he’s about. The less news time is given to lunatics like him the better for all of us.

    Reply
  • What a sick brain washed idiot!!!

    Reply
  • The logical conclusion of saying that condemning mass slaughter in schools while being pro-choice is “double-think” is that any mother of one of the Newtown massacred who is either pro-choice or even had an abortion herself is a hypocrite.

    P.

    Reply
  • Paul 18/12/12 #

    Brian Cowen 2.0

    Reply
  • They be saying next that them gays are trying to make us Commies :/

    Reply
  • does the gimp take batteries .wha

    Reply
  • This guy presents us with the best reason why the Seanad should be abolished.

    Reply
  • Same old, same old, this guy’s obsession with abortion. Our bodies ourselves. Wish he’d channel his energy into children alive now who have needs.

    Reply
  • Completely disregarding his actual stance on abortion, I find it vile that he would use the Connecticut massacre in an attempt to further his own political agenda. What a heinous and despicable thing to do.

    Reply
  • registering for my nui vote now. that tool needs the boot. he should just join the priesthood and be done with it. get out of the public sphere you rotten little man

    Reply
  • Once again I find myself getting angry at Mullen. Then I just feel nothing but pity for him. What a sad, compassionless little man.

    Take pity on him. He deserves it.

    Reply
  • Our own version of the Westboro Baptist Church nutters. What a disgusting man comparing abortion regardless of how you feel (pro or anti) to the insanity of what happened in Newtown.

    Reply
  • So let me just get this right, Senator Mullen is using the term “double-think” to discourage people from describing distinct things such as “children” and “foetuses” using different words.

    Ronan Mullen makes George Orwell cry.

    Reply
  • Well that’s put me right off my boiled egg for breakfast.
    I’ll stick to being a cereal killer instead.

    Reply
  • Nydon 18/12/12 #

    That man is a simple-minded, unthinking dogmatic moron spouting simplistic solutions to complex problems.
    Many of the commentators on here are the polar opposite of that man.
    I.e.
    simple-minded, unthinking dogmatic morons spouting the opposite simplistic solutions to complex problems.
    Red thumbs from both sides now…

    Reply
  • What an idiotic excuse for a man

    Reply
  • The subject of abortion is an independent matter from that of religion, and it should be kept that way despite BOTH sides continuously dragging them together. I think a well prepared national debate should happen soon on abortion.

    Plus, as a side note, why are many atheists so intolerant that they force their views on theists and shun down on their beliefs?? Give everyone respect for whatever they believe (or don’t believe in), it’s only common decency.

    Reply
  • Ger 19/12/12 #

    So extremely inappropriate, it defies belief. I have an extremely low opinion of Mullen, but I never expected this.
    I hope the US ambassador files a formal protest.

    On the one hand, you’ve got people like him saying it’s not appropriate to bring Savita’s death into the debate. Yet he someone convinces himself into thinking a gunning down of children is.

    Reply
  • The prochoice groop used Savita’s death to push their own agenda, an afal scandal.

    Reply
  • Peter Richardson says that ” a foetus is not a baby” well in fact it is! Foetus is a medical term used to describe the baby in the womb. And just as geriatric is a medical term for another stage of human existence, that does not make the people so described some kind of lesser species. The Nazis used just such kind of terminology to put some distanse between themselves and people they regarded as lesser human beings folloiwng from which they introduced the progroms of Woprld War II. You would have though we would have moved on from that. But now there are people just as determined to rid of unborn children and how sad it is to see it. I didn’t vote for Senator Mullen because I didn’t have a vote but I am so glad he is there. Some needs to stand up in the senate for unborn children

    Reply
  • It’s amazing how many people attack Mullen rather than actually dealing with his point.

    We are all rightly horrified at the Newtown tragedy. It is somethibng that unites all sides of the political spectrum. Yet for those of us who believe that the unborn child is a real human being – not some abstract, theological or philosophical concept, but a real flesh and blood human – abortion is equally outrageous.

    We are rightly outraged at the idea of men dressed in combat gear killing children. Those of us who recognise the humanity of the unborn are also outraged at the idea of men dressed in medical gowns killing unborn children.

    Reply
    • Tracy, so you equate abortion in all cases with the murders in Newtown Connecticut? Is that what you are asserting?

      Reply
    • “actually dealing with his point”

      I’m happy enough to deal with this “point”. It is sick to even begin to compare the murder using assault rifles of actual children to, say, the termination of a pregnancy requested by the late Savita and her husband Praveen. I hope future Seanad voters remember this.

      P.

      Reply
    • Tracy – that is a despicable, ugly and self serving contribution. You should reflect on what u have said – hopefully then u will conclude that it was barbaric.

      Reply
    • Dodge 18/12/12 #

      When one of these medical gown wearing people kills 20 unsuspecting kids and 6 adults in the space of 5 minutes, maybe come back and compare the two. In the mean time, please don’t try and use this atrocity to push an unrelated agenda

      Reply
    • People were accusing the pro-life lobby of exploiting the death of Savita to push an agenda. However her death happened in Ireland and legislation in this country would have had an effect on her treatment and might have saved her life, her unfortunate death was very relevant to the debate in this county.

      Lack of legislation in Ireland is completely irrelevant to the tragedy in Newtown. If we had legislated prior to now it wouldn’t have exacerbated what happened in Newtown, and if our government continues to drag their feet, it won’t prevent the next tragedy. So the only conclusion is that Mullen is trying to use that tragedy to forward his political agenda, which is pretty damn tasteless.

      Reply
    • @ John Horan, that is logical and rational. I would be interested to hear what Ms Tracy Williams has to say in reply. So, will Ms Williams reply?

      Reply
    • Another pro-lifer who fails to make a single mention of the women concerned.

      Reply
    • Probably because he doesn’t have a point, well not one based on logic, reason or intelligence anyway!

      Reply
    • Tracy, I hear what you are trying to say, but respectfully disagree.
      To simply preface your argument with the statement “those of us who believe the unborn child is a real human being…” doesn’t carry any weight; you have IMHO already made an egregious and unsupportable assertion.
      E.g if I was to propose something on the basis of my opinion that “those of us who believe in the inherent superiority of the Irish Caucasian genes”…, I might be able to convincingly argue in favour of any number of appalling policies.

      Reply
  • A child is a child.

    Tragic time for Newtown. Tragic time for Ireland.

    Heartbroken about both.

    Reply
  • Peter Richardson should know that foetus is just a medical term for a child in the womb in the same way as geriatric describes an older generation and all are human beings! After all no pregnant woman talks about her “foetus” but her “baby”.

    Reply

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