Kevin, can I join you. One fund I set up 15 years ago is worth 15% of what I put in!!!

no disrespect guys, but you knew what you were getting into when you set up your pension fund.

You must have chosen some dodgy investments so. 3 year and 10 year pension fund returns are positive; http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1024996.shtml – 5 year returns are currently negative, because the prices were obviously up in the bubble at the time, but pensions are long term investments, so they’ll come round again. Aer Lingus staff didn’t have the option of participating, or of choosing their own investment strategy. They might get back 4% of their investments – see link in my other comment below.

They should be the first to be privetised

there fees have not come down at all. it is about time there was a cut there as well.

Ever heard of inflation?
There’s an argument for buying land, but sticking it under the mattress is just insane!

Matoid,a slight exaggeration to make a point…..put it in a reinforced piggy bank

I didn’t think you meant it literally, but the point is unless its earning more on deposit than the inflation rate its constantly losing value.

Join the civil service…..bullet proof pensions

Can everybody please stop using this ‘does what it says on the tin’ phrase.
It’s cringe-some and annoying.

Ok Sean… How about “it does exactly what it says on the side of the plane”… (sorry,I’ll just get my coat).

Sean…you just said it!!

I like how everyone regards Ryanair as the “low-cost” airline. If you’re flying to Frankfurt you end up in this airport that is not even in Frankfurt and have to spend money on getting to actual Frankfurt not to mention all the extra fees. You’re better off just flying with Aer Lingus or Lufthansa since in the end it comes to same price or more. Most of this low-cost crap is psychological for people. Ryanair are good on routes to the UK and some European routes. But it would be horrible if they took over Aer Lingus. Contrary to O’Leary’s claims (he’s a business man and lies constantly), the fares would go up and long-haul service to airports like JFK in NY will be cut since they don’t fit in with the low-cost model. He also plans on selling all the Heathrow slots to British Airways and will be cutting flights into normal airports. There are really only two Irish airlines, it’s nice to have choice between legacy and low-cost; their services are very different. Buying Aer Lingus is just a great business opportunity for him and he can sell all the assets and dominate the market in Dublin. Aer Lingus is not worth 600 million when you add up all their assets. One airline controlling over 80% of a market is absolutely ridiculous. Ireland is too small for such a take-over the BA take-over of BMI example is moronic; since there are multiple British airlines in the UK and airlines fly from all around the world to London. So competition isn’t a concern for London/UK unlike Dublin/Ireland.

Sorry my comment wasn’t in response to yours.

Jonny – There are no details as yet. The current state of play is that all possible talks have broken down, meaning the only option left to SIPTU (unless they drop the dispute, of course, but that’s unlikely) is to go on strike.

These are all relatively recent developments so there’s no word yet as to when any strike might take place.

Sorry – just realised you were probably asking about the pensions scheme itself.

It’s the Irish Aviation Pensions Scheme, a fairly long-running scheme (hence, for historical reasons, the fact that both Aer Lingus and the DAA use it). Like pretty much every defined pension benefit scheme on the planet, it’s gone into deficit because of the falling value of its investments and shares, etc. The difficulty here is that because it’s such a big scheme, with an estimated 310,000 workers possibly entitled to payment from it, a deficit of €748m means there may be little chance of any payout ever being made.

The workers are demanding that Aer Lingus make extra provisions to fill the gap; Aer Lingus, who say it’s not their fault that it’s in such a bad way, aren’t budging.

Last week, the employees were being offered 4% of their contracted pension. That’s 4%. And they had no choice about contributing to the fund.

So with those figures, the deficit represents a €2,500 loss for each member of the scheme?

Well, I can see the arguments for both sides. Although the values of investments are certainly falling in most cases, do pension schemes not generally invest in low-risk options? In which case, how has the deficit become so large?

Shane – where does that 4% figure come from? Also, are you saying contribution to the fund is compulsory?

Here’s the source for the 4% figure; http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1008/aer-lingus-pensions.html

surly Mr Begg is not on the board of Aer Lingus saying one thing and strike on the other. it wood only happen in ireland. So we pay 5

pearch1, you sir are an idiot and have no right posting about a subject you obviously know nothing about.

Aer Lingus have been making profits for the last few years. People like you annoy me so much due to the fact that you post an entirely inaccurate statement and other people read it and think you actually have an idea what you are talking about, so go back and read your comics please.

idiot

pearch1, you sir are an idiot and have no right posting about a subject you obviously know nothing about.

Aer Lingus have been making profits for the last few years. People like you annoy me so much due to the fact that you post an entirely inaccurate statement and other people read it and think you actually have an idea what you are talking about so go back and read your comics please.

idiot

Cute hoor? Yes. Tough? Yes. Anti union? Definitely. Liar? Be careful.

Really??? They only get 4e an hour??? That’s LESS than minimum wage !

So glad some see the exploitation of o’leary on cabin crew…thanks…

A guy who pays his staff €4 per hour, who paid himself €1.3 million last year, and yet who accuses workers of featherbedding. This is the kind of guy people are applauding??

I rest my case.
I highlight that O’Leary has given false evidence in court and I get red thumbs.
Perhaps I’m just making it all up?
I will never understand.

So Paddy tells me to be careful when I call O’Leary a liar. I highlight the case and name the judge that damned him from the bench for lying to the court. When I highlight this I get red thumbed.
When this is the intellect of the Irish nation it explains why we are such a basket case. Completely illogical.
Roll on the red thumbs from the yahoo classes. Bet you all thought property would go up for ever.

And I know pigs that fly, you don’t know anyone that works for Aer Lingus. Pension funds are a form of gambling, nothing is a given but loosing money is always a possibility however on the salaries these people are on compared to those of their competition even if they did loose money in pensions they wouldn’t actually be loosing compared to others in the industry. If Aer Lingus staff want to keep their jobs then they’ll need to become as competitive as those of Ryanair.

Can’t wait to see Begg’s answer.

Ah! Because you didn’t get a coffee Aer Lingus staff are not entitled to the pension they’ve been paying in to. Is that not a little bit selfish, maybe a little childish of you?

Do you get a free coffee when the train or bus is late????

John.
As an Irish Person can I apologise for all the red thumbs. A majority in this country care little about exploitation.
They are happy to believe the myth. They are happy to believe Ryanair can expand at an unprecedented rate and they never question how it’s done. That is why so many are in negative equity. They believed the hype about property. They are not wise.

Sean,

Irish capitalists only care about money 24/7. The celtic tiger bred a greedy, selfish, careless, anti-rights agenda into the upper middle-class snobs.

I would happily travel with “scabs” than sit in an airport waiting on smug delusional overpaid spongers.

All the red thumb pressing must be self employed people not bothered with workers rights don’t think they understand that Ryanair pilots cabin crew boarding staff and ground crew all pay to work for Ryanair and they make huge amounts of money from this so the last thing on ryanairs mind is staff welfare .Capitalism alive and well .

Aer Lingus staff do not get “the best pay” in the land. They receive less than the standard industrial wage. They are being expected to contribute to a pension that won’t be there when they retire. How is that fair?

Fine Gael Fan, you have bad case of delusions of grandeur. its the greedy wealthy owners. What kind of country will you have when only 2% or population owns and controls 90% of all money and property, with huge tax cuts for them over 20 years. Today we have 25 billion in unpaid taxes, high unemployment.

Una, the figures you quote are incorrect and also irrelevant. Geraldine, they are paid quite hansomely for the little work they do and if you put money on a roulette table, there is a chance you’ll break even, a chance you’ll get more, a chance you’ll get less and a chance you’ll get nothing, pension funds are of the same concept. In tough times, gamblers often loose as casino owners become smarter. The smart person is rewarded, that is only fair.

Una, the figures you quote are incorrect and also irrelevant. Geraldine, they are paid quite handsomely for the little work they do and if you put money on a roulette table, there is a chance you’ll break even, a chance you’ll get more, a chance you’ll get less and a chance you’ll get nothing, pension funds are of the same concept. In tough times, gamblers often loose as casino owners become smarter. The smart person is rewarded, that is only fair.

When did any Ryanair aircraft run out of fuel??? If you run out of fuel you will probably crash yet Ryanair has not one fatality in it’s history. Don’t gather all your information from false sensational headlines…

Airplanes are not bricks with engines. IF an aircraft ran out of fuel it has the potential to glide without power to the nearest airport. If a plane would just drop out of the sky without power you can bet it wouldn’t be certified to fly.

Jason, can you give an example of that actually happening, and everything turning out well?

Jason.. I said probably crash, aircraft can glide for a specified time only .. Also a Ryanair aircraft has never “glided” to an airport.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada_Flight_143

There’s a full list of incidences where aircraft landed with complete loss of engine power through gliding. Also Peter, I’m merely stating that it is more than possible to land an aircraft with no power without a crash.

Jason a Ryanair aircraft at 34,000ft travelling at 500mph with loss of engine due to failure would glide for about 15 minutes, unless the airport is very close the worse will happen. If you read into the story of the Ryanair Fuel emergencies by the IAA you’ll learn that they had more than sufficient fuel, holding for nearly 1 hour and diverting for 25 minutes and landing at an alternate airport is more than the average amount of fuel. Also when Ryanair do Aer Lingus flights they travel to the destination of the Aer Lingus schedule not a Ryanair one

Why ??

It is irrational to prefer an inability to complete a journey rather than travel with what you may consider an inferior provider.

Even if you might run out of fuel on that journey at 30,000 feet?

This has not happened to this particular provider.

Just 3 May day calls within an hour of each other because of lack of fuel in Spain.

@jesus ask your dad. He’ll be able to give you the facts around those priority landing calls.

Classic Steve… I never new Jesus read the Sun

Agreed. Ryanair treated my ill father like crap. Michael O’Leary is a greedy, idiotic man.

Lisa.
They almost ran out of fuel.
If you are down the back of a flight that almost runs out of fuel it won’t seem any different than the one that has plenty of fuel. Information is the key and being able to asses it.

Sean, your a clown! No Ryanair a/c nearly ran out of Fuel

Information is the key Sean, pity you bypassed that bit.. No Ryanair aircraft never ran close to being out of fuel.. As much as it makes silly headlines that kind of thing does not happen!

Sorry Aaron. You the fool. I never said they ran out of fuel. I said they almost did. My statement was rhetorical.
I wouldn’t expect you to understand that. 3 Ryanair aircraft declared Maydays due low in fuel. Fact.