I don’t see them as a threat, I’m just curious as to how they can actually reproduce. a man changing to a woman doesn’t get a womb or ovaries, so how can she reproduce? …and vice versa.

Meaning?

Never understood the origins of that saying. Who wants a cake if not for eating???

I will NOT, repeat, NOT make a banking/government/bondholder analogy here. :-D

Basically, if you have a cake you can either keep it and look at it, or eat it and it’s gone.

You can’t have it both ways, and until doctors are able to perform miracles… the Swedes are on the ball on this one

The point is that they’re taking something away… decisively.. that may otherwise work. They are affectively saying that these people shouldn’t be able to reproduce. Do you really think that’s their decision to make.. or yours?

hmmm…. if you have a sex change, surely you’ve no use for those bits anyway – unless the plan is to change back at a later date or something.
So if you’re a man, who changes to a woman, you’re bits aren’t going to be very effective once that happens are they, same for a woman changing to a man.
Not to mention the fact that if you get this procedure you’d hopefully be having relationships with people of the same sex you were born with, making having kids impossible anyway, kind of a non issue.
Surely you’d keep some sperm/eggs in a bank for later use if required.
I’m undecided in my opinion on this topic, but leaning towards “who cares”.

Obviously the Swedes don’t want to create a society of freaks, for want of a better word. And no-one is forcing them to undergo the procedure. You might say it’s their own business, but it’s not. If you accept transgenders are allowed to reproduce in their style of their natural sex, then I suppose you’d accept if I decided to transplant my arms where my legs are and vice-versa. Because it’s no longer really a sex-change, just a case of extreme body-modification.

@Imran Ali – You show your true nature by referring to Transpeople as ‘freaks’. There is a better term but you chose the offensive one. Transpeople are no more likely to have children that are transgender than homosexuals are to have homosexual children so you comment is completelty misguided and offensive.
As for the choice to have surgery, for many that is the only way for them to achieve complete happiness with their physical form and/or mental health. Not all transpeople undergo surgery. But those that do go through a painful painful process in order to reflect the person that they are. You obviously no very little about Trans identity and I would presume do not know any trans identified individuals. If you do then I feel sorry for them for having you even on the periphery of their lives. It is their business. It is their body and their womb/sperm. I could hardly start a campaign to have Imran Ali sterilised because I don’t believe in his abhorrent transphobia and ignorance.

@ Paul Mannon
“Not to mention the fact that if you get this procedure you’d hopefully be having relationships with people of the same sex you were born with, making having kids impossible anyway, kind of a non issue.”

You comments in regards to the gender of the people transpeople enter into relationships with is shortsighted. Sexuality and gender are seperate things. A transwomen (male to female) or transman (female to male) has just as much chance of being straight, gay, bi or asexual as any other person and so you cannot assume you know who they will be with at all. As for ‘bits’ as you put it, their internalised reproductive organs are still in use. Also being in a same sex relationship doesn’t preclude children as the reproductive system is hardly compromised by homosexuality. The source of the sperm/womb is another story.

Imran, you are projecting your own mores and personal prejudices on people that you have shown yourself to know nothing about.

I’m sure that when the issue is debated further in Sweden, by informed people, the argument that they “don’t want a society of freaks” won’t be taken very seriously

enn, you have completely missed my point and have decided to go on the offensive. I didn’t call transgenders freaks. I said you can’t expect society to accept a transgender person having offspring in the style of their natural sex. I didn’t want to use the word ‘freak’ and I was trying to portray how the general public would feel on the matter. I gather the general consensus would be that you can have your sex-change, but “men” giving birth is a bit much to swallow.

Now, I have no power to make any laws on this matter and I’m merely expressing an opinion. You ultra-liberals think you can make a case for absolutely anything and justify anybody’s choices just because they feel a certain way. Living in a society, people have a certain duty to their peers to uphold fundamental values and when a transexual talks about bringing a child into the world in the manner discussed here, that’s no longer just their own business

*Jenn

Imran, do you think it’s right that the state should be able to choose who can and can’t have children?

Because in this case, that’s what’s happening. From what I gather, the general public, and indeed much of the parliament aren’t actually advocating this law… a lot of people are actually appalled by it.

I don’t think they’re preventing transexuals from adopting, are they?

I can’t believe people some people actually accept a transexual man giving birth to a child is a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to be allowed to do. If that’s the way we’re going, so be it… Nothing surprises me anymore.

I don’t really have strong feelings on this issue to be honest

Now, I’m off to try and get that arm/leg transplant…. Because that’s the way I feel I should have been born

am I missing something?
How are transpeople able to get pregnant, or impregnate?

OK, so this clears things up a bit:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joanne-herman/can-transgender-people-be_b_839703.html

they can’t, yet.
So the issue is the governments right to stop the person choosing.
Should they have that right, probably not.
But at the same time there’s an ethical responsibility on the part of the transperson to decide one way or the other.
Should you be allowed to manipulate your body in such a way without fully committing?
“I want to be a man but I want to keep my women’s genitals” it’s a bit fucked up.
Reading that article I linked suggests that for the time being this is not the best, or safest way to go for anyone availing of this type of operation.
Now that’s it’s all clear for me I’m still undecided how I feel about it. But my gut feeling is they should decide one way or the other, and freeze their sperm/eggs for future use.
Hopefully it won’t be too long before the medical community can solve this problem fully and give transpeople the ability to reproduce properly.

The thing is Imran (putting aside how irrelevant the analogy is ), if you did decide to do that, I doubt anyone would force sterilization on you.

Paul, yes, the most unsettling thing for me is the fact that the decision is being taken out of their hands either way. Who is this law protecting? The potential child? There’s nothing to suggest that the child of a transgender person would be f*cked up (see my below comment about same sex couples), and like Jenn said, many trangender people are already parents.

So is it protecting people like Imran who just can’t see logic in it? The people who consider Transgender people freaks? Is it right that laws should be formed that take away basic human rights to protect the sensibilities of others?

I don’t actually know any transgender people but laws like this based on people’s prejudices do not sit well with me at all.

It’s the coercive nature of it that bothers me over anything else. That must be in breach of some basic human right.

People say the same thing about gay couples who want children but in reality, the children of gay couples tend to be as well adjusted, on average, as children of heterosexual couples.

The main problem here however, is the fact that the state is deciding for these people. They state is deciding who they see fit to be able to reproduce in their society. Do you really think that’s right?