Union: We’ll picket AIB too if striking EBS workers are not paid

20/12/11 3,396 Views 54 Comments

An EBS employee on the picket line today

Image: Julien Behal/PA Wire/Press Association Images

A UNION REPRESENTING staff at EBS striking over the withholding of a Christmas payment has said it will extend the picket to AIB buildings if the payment is not made.

However, Unite claimed that the Department of Finance is re-examining the decision not to make the ’13th month’ payment, which staff say is a standard element of their salary and not a bonus.

It’s understood the payment of between €1,000 and €2,500 is not performance-related. The union claims that some senior management at the company are still receiving the payment.

However, the company has disputed this. It argues that the payment is a bonus – which the bank is obliged not to pay since it came under State ownership – and says management have not received any bonuses since 2008.

According to Unite, managers expressed sympathy with striking staff as they passed the picket line today. “We are told that this was a decision made by Department of Finance officials,” union officer Colm Quinlan said.

“This payment has been part of staff contracts for 45 years. It was paid in 2009 when reference was made in the annual accounts of the company to no bonuses having been paid.”

Regional secretary Jimmy Kelly said if the Minister for Finance does not intervene, the union will hold a meeting on January 11 and begin placing pickets outside AIB buildings.

More: EBS staff begin strike action over ’13th month’ payment>

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Comments (54 Comments)

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Pat Enright 20/12/11 #

Report this comment 54 64

O that will really give yea lot at EBS (state owned) the support of the Irish people, go on bring out AIB, ye are all tared with the one brush now.

Reply
- Donncha Foley 20/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 71 72
  
  It was paid when annual accounts stated no bonuses were paid. So it’s not a bonus, it’s part of their basic wage. This is theft. I hope they succeed in getting what’s owed to them.
- Alan Mulvey 20/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 50 31
  
  public sector worker biting back there lucky to have a job how dare they look for money that’s owed to them how dare they stand up for them self and there rights . people are on the dole they should work for the same they have the country wrecked. stupid people looking for there wages . and I’m joking
- Donncha Foley 21/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 7 13
  
  @alan, that just cheered me right up. Great stuff
- Bernadette Dunne 21/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 9 10
  
  @Alan sorry i gave you thumbs down my hand slipped It is a disgrace that the EBS employees are expected to work weeks without pay
SMcB 20/12/11 #

Report this comment 35 82

Hmmm, Unite should be thankful EBS still exists.

Reply
Jon Jo Ha 20/12/11 #

Report this comment 45 103

If its part of there contract they should be paid. Front line staff are not to blame for this countrys mess.

Reply
- SMcB 20/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 19 84
  
  Well you could also look at it this way… EBS should have been liquidated. What business did a building society have getting involved in commercial property deals ?
- Eileen Gabbett 20/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 41 63
  
  That was managements fault not the staff’s fault.
- Jon Jo Ha 20/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 30 57
  
  Agreed but it wasn’t liquidated, so the contract should still be honoured.
- SMcB 20/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 23 41
  
  Well perhaps staff should start a picket outside the homes of ex mgt then?
- Jon Jo Ha 20/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 13 32
  
  There workplace is fine for that.
- Jason Finnerty 20/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 34 44
  
  not quite true. I believe front line staff approved mortgages and accepted bonuses when banks were making huge profits. I mean surely you don’t think the board of directors ran the whole bank.
- jrbmc 21/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 8 3
  
  Bollox Jon! I had nothing to do with it either and I haven’t a bonus of any sort for that last 3 years, they should be grateful to have a job
- KarlMarcks 21/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 1 5
  
  @SMcB EBS did not get heavily involved in the property market, as it began such activity only in 2006 or so. Its bad debt situation was only around €300m, if I remember rightly, compared to the billions at Irish Nationwide, PTSB, etc. As it could probably have handled that without government involvement, it is a shame that the last mutual society in Ireland has been destroyed by a relatively minor transgression.
  
  In any case, the CEO who made those decisions was ‘retired’ or fired, without external pressure or the Gov leaning on EBS. Unlike other places… So, a straight financial institution which fell among thieves. And as elsewhere, the workers who had no voice in decisions are to pay?
pj foley 20/12/11 #

Report this comment 70 107

A months salary seems excess especially considering they had to be bailed out ebs workers should be grateful they have jobs, take it on the chin and get on with it

Reply
Toureag 20/12/11 #

Report this comment 52 77

EBS, what about us? We didn’t get any bonus for a long time & u all should be grateful for having jobs so forget ur bonuses & get on with ur life……

Reply
Georgina Campbell 20/12/11 #

Report this comment 68 70

Its not a bonus, it is part of there salary. So essentially what your saying is that no matter what is thrown at staff they should be grateful to have jobs and get on with it while managment still receive this payment. Would you work for 4 weeks of the year for free?? Somehow i doubt it.. Also chances are there job wont be there come March/April this year once they move into AIB Bank Centre considering AIB are looking to get rid of 2000 staff.

Reply
- SMcB 20/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 58 62
  
  The last time I checked there was 12 months in a yr. Still is I’m afraid. So staff werent working for free in fairness.
- Tensing Norgay 20/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 44 68
  
  Yes Georgina , exactly that . In the real world outside of the publc service or bailed out banks, do you know what happens when your company goes broke ? ‘Ill tell you, you get let go , now if the company is actually bust you get statutory redundancy and thats that . There are well over 400,000 people with no jobs at all. Remember the FF gov that took the double christams payment away for those on the dole , dont remember any banks closing in solidarity then. Look , it is unfortuante and i can see that is upsetting but paying a bonus to a bank that shoud have been wound up is wrong.
- SMcB 20/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 47 36
  
  4 red thumbers think there’s 13 months in a working year…. WOW
- Mark Neville 21/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 15 17
  
  Tensing Norgay. In response to your pretty petty quip regarding the real world and outside the public sector. Public servants are very much in the real world, losing jobs, taking pay cuts and paying taxes, just like everyone else in that real world you speak of. And if we follow your “real world” ideal to its logical conclusion, what do you suggest we do? Fire every nurse, garda, teacher, fireperson, paramedic/ambulance driver social welfare office worker etc…? Do you suggest that either the abolition or downgrading of healthcare, law enforcement, education, emergency services and a distribution of a minimum living standard ought to be where we’re heading?
- Damhsa Dmf 21/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 10 26
  
  Ah but SMcB, not every genius here knows that there are 13 lunar months in a year (13×4=52).
  Even though some Julian (12 month)calendar months have 5 weeks…there are also more than 1 type of calendar as a method of time keeping – crazy stuff right??
  12x4weeks=48 weeks paid for, not 52. I fail to see where a bonus is anywhere here…screw it I’m not explaining it further to another person as it seems beyond too many at this stage.
  
  Oh…..
  I know, what if we save tax payers a load of money by not paying the dole to 400,000 people for 4 weeks when ever there is 5 weeks in a month!!!
  Wow, lets add that up shall I?
  
  4 x 180euro so say 780 x 400,000 = 288,000,000 Euro Yup 288 MILLION Euro we can save right there…
  Oh and I’m not even including all the lovely extra benefits those 400,000 receive for their full 39 working hr weeks!
  
  We could save this if that’s the mentality of people commenting here, I’m all for it, if ye think these employee’s only deserve to be paid 11 months pay who serve people like those commenting here every day standing behind a desk or till and only get paid for 48 weeks a year. Lets do it across the board for EVERYONE receiving tax payers money perhaps.
  Lets see how many people like this idea??? This making sense at all?
Joseph Boshell 20/12/11 #

Report this comment 38 33

It’s not a bonus or a 13th month payment.. It’s comes out of there usual monthly salary for 11 months to be paid to them in December!

Reply
Dec Rowe 20/12/11 #

Report this comment 27 53

It’s not part of their salary as it’s not pensionable pay, they are under some sort of illusion that it is part of their salary! It’s deemed as a bonus by the company… If it wasn’t do you really think they would or could hold back this payment without it coming back and biting them in the arse! Taxpayers didn’t prop up this crowd just so the EBS staff could pocket a nice little xmas bonus while the taxpayer snd unemployed gets hit left right and centre!

Reply
- Joe Bloggs 20/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 23 47
  
  Dec then explain why they paid the payment last year and stated on the Annual Accounts that no bonuses were paid? Or that managers got their contracts re-worded to state that it was part of their base pay and hence the payment could be made to them? Or why PTSB, who also receive a 13th month payment, got theirs on the 28th november with no questions or probing from the Dept of Finance?
  
  This is part of their wages. When these staff were hired by EBS, they got their base pay of XXX per year and were told that they would receive a double month in December. My wife used to work there and when she started in 2005, her starting pay was E16,890, when AIB/BOI starting pay was E21,000, but she took the job because it was a smaller organization, offered flextime arrangements and the double xmas payment meant a lot, so YES it is part of their wages.
  
  Also, EBS did not go looking for the tax payer to prop them up….they had 4 external bidders who wanted to buy them, it was Noonan who decided to plug the plug on the sale and threw them into AIB, I understand this appears that I’m supporting EBS and everyone will now start moaning at me cos everyone loves to rant about irish banks but lets not ignore important facts here!
Joe Bloggs 20/12/11 #

Report this comment 12 30

SMcB, loads of employers pay wages over 13 months….have you never come across this? Its a payroll savings incentive for the employer, as they withhold a part of the monthly wage who means they don’t pay pension contributions etc….and classify it as a bonus to get around it, PTSB have a similar scheme

Reply
- Joe Roddy 20/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 15 6
  
  Oh the big evil employer, creating jobs, paying salaries and creating products and services.
  
  Down with that sort of thing…
- SMcB 21/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 37 17
  
  Utter Bollox. Its a bonus. Simple as.
- Darren O'Brien 21/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 9 6
  
  Simple as what?
John Hughes 20/12/11 #

Report this comment 47 38

They should be docked pay for time spent out of work too. If they’re looking for sympathy they’ll find it in the dictionary somewhere between shit and syphilis!

Reply
- Joe Bloggs 20/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 37 36
  
  Staff who strike in official pickets generally don’t get paid by their employer so unless then union pays the staff…but considering why these people had to strike….half their decembers wage was not paid you are a heartless f**k, good job they are not looking for sympathy so tough shit your comment is useless…
Georgina Campbell 20/12/11 #

Report this comment 27 37

Do you think because we work in a bank we dont pay tax, believe it or not we do. If it was a bonus do you really think that they would have received this in 2009 & 2010. Yes up until 2009 we did receive Preformance related bonus’s but obviously EBS was not preforming, this was stopped. I personally would not expect to receive a bonus in these times. That has ceased in all financial institutions as far as i am aware. PTSB get paid the exact same way as EBS and they still got this payment the week before last. They get paid less 11 months of the year in order to receive a double pay packet in December.

Reply
Antóin O' Cinnéde 20/12/11 #

Report this comment 27 40

I am all for workers rights I really am, but I find it hard to have sympathy for these workers (I think the managers should have it cut also) look at the people in Cork who may not even get redundancy pay.

Reply
Paul O'Flynn 20/12/11 #

Report this comment 14 8

Yes the key issue seems to be how the managers in this company have pulled a fast one. Noon an needs to insist they pay back “their” bonus. Sounds like PTSB needs to be also sorted. They can take the overpayment out of Januarys wages.

Paul

Reply
Martin Smith 21/12/11 #

Report this comment 8 31

Never ceases to amaze me at the double standards operated by the government and the department of finance.When we looked for the salaries and bonuses that are paid out to semi state bosses to be reduced the minister for finance says they cant reduce their salaries or bonuses as they have contracts of employment.Yet when it comes to the ordinary paye worker its what contract we can stop your pay if we want to.Anyone who is paid four weekly is paid 13 times a year 4 x 13 is 52 weeks.Personally i hope the staff bring both the ebs and aib out on strike.We have the same boards of management in the AIB,BOI,EBS as we had before the collapse of the economy all earning the same high salaries perks and bonuses.So easy to take a couple of grand off the front line staff and reduce their salaries…

Reply
Frank2521 21/12/11 #

Report this comment 28 11

A bailout for these people in the financial sector by the citizens of ireland – all the citizens including children, old age pensioners, people on welfare, etc it’s insulting to think that these bankers want more from these vulnerable and less well off. It’s staggering that as bankers they don’t have the intelligence to add up the figures ie number of months in a year and thinking that people on much less will support them taking even more from them in the form of welfare cuts etcc. These guys don’t deserve a job – mind you it displays a level of intelligence by their managers who employed them. Shut down the EBS if they persist as the people can’t take much more from these spoiled brats.

Reply
Andrew Telford 21/12/11 #

Report this comment 20 17

As I said before if they’re unhappy with their pay or lack of a bonus and believe they are not compensated to the level they could recieve elsewhere they are free to find other jobs.

Show me a paycheck with a ‘deduction’ listed for their 13th month of pay and you can legitimately claim it so.

Reply
- Silent P 21/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 6 13
  
  52/4=13
Ardo Ci 21/12/11 #

Report this comment 7 36

Brilliant! Brilliant! Brilliant! This isn’t an ‘extra’ – it is their earnings. It is an act of law-breaking by the management if they don’t pay it. But if I see one more ‘there’ instead of ‘their’ I’ll lose the will to live.

Reply
- Joan Featherstone 21/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 4 14
  
  I’m with you on the ‘there’ ‘their’ Ardo, drives me nuts and it’s all over the Journal!
Silent P 21/12/11 #

Report this comment 5 31

Ive a solution. Let’s take their gross annual salary. Pay them the 13th month payment this time as a goodwill gesture. From January on divide salary by 12, not 13 to avoid any confusion and they can all go back to work happy.

Reply
- Bernadette Dunne 21/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 7 14
  
  I said the very same thing last week most commentators just do not want to hear what is the truth here they have BONUS tattooed to their brains and will not listen to the fact that these EMPLOYEES NOT MANAGEMENT NOT DIRECTORS but ordinary workers being done out of their WAGES
Silent P 21/12/11 #

Report this comment 9 11

To anyone arguing against these people being paid a 13th month please take a moment to calculate the following. 52(weeks)\4=?? In my job I’m paid every 4 weeks. I still regard this as my monthly payment. Try and take away a full months pay and tell everyone it was a Christmas bonus all along. Shame on you.

Reply
Frank2521 21/12/11 #

Report this comment 11 8

All these people could do a lot better – they should have applied for Kevin Cardiff’s position as they use the same calculators.

Reply
dave cully 21/12/11 #

Report this comment 7 26

It’s simple maths. A person taking home €26k a year would get €2166 a month for 12 months, however in this company they divide that €26k by 13 and they get €2k for 11 months and in the last month ie December they get their usual €2k plus the €166 they didn’t get every other month which bring there wages up to €4k. For the purposes of this demonstration I’m not factoring in any tax so that it’s nice and simple for all the morons out there that think it’s a ‘bonus’. And no I don’t work for them or any bank.

Reply
olive tierney 21/12/11 #

Report this comment 18 14

We all had to loose our Xmas bonus and other payments for the last 2 years and we just had to grin and bare it!! So come on what difference are the ESB workers in fairness??? Be thankful you all have a job for now anyway!!!

Reply
- Ronan Sexton 21/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 7 14
  
  Erm… see Dave’s explanation above, it’s not really that complicated.
- Silent P 21/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 11 16
  
  Mean, nasty, spiteful begrudgers. What’s wrong with you people? I don’t work for a bank and owe my soul to EBS but I’m 100% behind these workers. It’s the thin end of the wedge for all workers in this country .. Unfortunately the simpletons are falling for the same old crap yet again.
Frank2521 21/12/11 #

Report this comment 20 9

There is rationalisation and then there are the EBS workers rationalisation. How do any of these get a job with such low levels of intelligence? It is no wonder the banks need to be fixed if they kept promoting from inside this gene pool.

Reply
Colm Flaherty 21/12/11 #

Report this comment 16 11

Right, so you’re claiming EBS pays you for 28 days?

So they pay you for either 8 days or 3 days worth of weekends where you’re not working, depending on when the weekdays fall?

If you *are* working on weekends, why are your branches closed on Saturday & Sunday?

Off with you, this is a picket I will have no problem crossing.

Reply
Alan Wilson 21/12/11 #

Report this comment 3 13

Forget the confusion over months. These ordinary workers just got 1/13 of their salary cut 2 weeks before xmas. Not a bonus. That is not right regardless of you work in a bank or a pub.

Reply
Damhsa Dmf 21/12/11 #

Report this comment 5 6

I think the Govt need to take a serious look at the level at which so many people have left school without knowing simple division. How many times do people have to do the maths out for others yet still fail.
December Pay:
52/13=4 weeks pay and 52/12= 4weeks + 4weeks, 13 is Lunar Month, 12 is Julian Month.
Next year they can pay them by the Julian calendar with 12 pay instalments, saving half the nation a headache!

Frighting figures I’m seeing here in levels of people who fail to grasp this.

Reply
- KarlMarcks 21/12/11 #
  
  Report this comment 6 3
  
  Some people you can repeat a FACT twice and they get it. Others require remedial maths classes.

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