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LAST UPDATE | 8 Sep 2022
LEAVING CERT 2022 students are finding out today what third-level offers will come from the grades and subsequent ‘points’ they received for this year’s exams.
The Round One offers have now been released, and you can check them all on The Journal at the button below.
It’s a huge day for thousands of households – from students waiting to see if they got their first preference course, to parents wondering whether they need to start a hunt for accommodation.
In total, there were 57,296 CAO applicants, the Central Applications Office said.
Round One offers must be accepted by 3pm on Wednesday, 14 September.
Round Two offers will then be released at 10am on 19 September – and we’ll have all the points right here on The Journal later that afternoon.
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The leaving certificate is a horrific Victorian gauntlet or largely terminal assessments, where increasingly the SEC are out to trick the student. The problem with it is the points race. Picking subjects based on how easy they are to do well in rather than for the joy of learning. While I agree we should use a system in second level that is externally assessed for the r asons you me toon above, it’s clear to me that the problem with the leaving certificate isn’t the exam itself, rather it being the sole benchmark for gaining entry into third level. Bring back interviews and letters of application for that, and let the leaving certificate be about knowledge building, not a points race.
@Keith Gregg: what happens if all students don’t have confidence for interviews at that age. Or if some students are too shy. Another system another set of problems. But interviews would probably focus the students more to do something they’re interested in!
@Keith Gregg: good in theory , but becomes even more elitist. The business of paying to have letters written for you and paying for interview prep would grow.
@George Beckett: exactly George, and so and sos aunt cousin would be married to someone on the interview and have a quiet word that they came from a good family etc. etc. It’s just human nature, the points system maybe harsh but it is on the level and fair. The only quibble I might have is that there isn’t enough allowance made for specific course requirements or attributes. You can clock up high LC points thru humanities type subjects, which LC mostly is, and get a place in medicine which surely would be more appropriate for someone with an interest in science?
@Keith Gregg: you should watch this. Will blow your mind about how education is stuck in the industrial revolution era. https://youtu.be/zDZFcDGpL4U
@6ljJQRRU: The best way of gaining confidence is to take a sales job paying on sales commission only – sink or swim.
@George Beckett: Hi George, it works fairly well in other countries, in fact the UCAS system requires both a personal statement and a reference, it’s a system that was in place for many courses, and in fact was reintroduced for Medicine here IIRC. I am currently teaching in the FE sector, and while different, the variety of assessment models is largely beneficial for students. The leaving Certificate did not prepare me for academia, nor did anything I learned in school benefit my subsequent learnings. In fact, I barely remember much of it apart from “Galar Crub is bheal, an chrannchur naisiunta, ou est le syndicat d’initiative”, ox bow lake formation, and the -b formula.
@Malvolio32: Thus, the matriculation should be brought back. Ironically Biology and physics have the highest level of a’s historically outside Russian and Arabic, so your point is moot. Ironically the humanities, specifically Art yield the lowest level of A’s with less than 60 out of the almost 8000 students sitting it at higher level each year getting an A1.
@Peter Cavey: I think that pretty much reflects my initial point. Ken Robinson is lovely, but loads are preaching it, yet where is the change?
What a load of horse shit. Secondary school education and the leaving cert does very little to prepare students third level or adult life. Why?
Because it’s all about very strict regurgitate and recycle learning that doesn’t value actual understanding or growth of personal skills.
And then you stick them in extremely high pressure 2-3 hour exams for a few weeks straight at the end of it all to come out the other side woefully unprepared for what’s beyond.
@David McGarry: Most subjects have external components which account for a certain percentage of the exam. It’s not all about the exam.
@David McGarry: I think that the best life lesson is that success takes hard work and the best lesson you can teach yourself is how to apply yourself for the long term when in the short term you just want to have a wank.
The leaving cert is a bit of an extreme way to teach that and probably wastes a lot of valuable learning and masturbation time.
@Thomas McGilly: English, maths and the sciences don’t have any external component. In the ones that do, it’s usually only worth 20%.
@Thomas McGilly: Um, no they do not. Several which have had reviews have had interim changes. on top of that, where coursework exists every subject is more or less due at the same time, mid the oral exams. it is very poorly thought out
Six years of school put into one series of exams. No pressure. How many kids have killed themselves over those exam?
Go to college, you get assignments, constant assessments, second chance in exams…..
@B9xiRspG: You say that in college you have assignments, continous assessment and second chance at exams? But isnt this the same at secondary level, as regards homework, class texts and repeating?
@B9xiRspG: 5 years
@B9xiRspG: I didn’t. I basically had the same thing. VERY little emphasis on continuous assessment was worth 10% for my final degree which was a research essay. The 90% was on 4, 3 hour exams on consecutive days and 1, 4 hour exam which was problem solving. That was absolutely impossible to rote learn btw. So in some instances the LC turns out to be VERY close to what I experienced in uni in terms of intensity.
@David Walsh: homework and class tests don’t count towards your leaving cert mark and repeating the whole year sets your life back a lot more than repeating exams at the end of the summer. In exceptional circumstances some colleges will even allow you to repeat twice rather than repeat the whole year
@David Walsh: depressing it’s so typical to see on the Journal, people agreeing with your completely inaccurate comment!! Absolutely not, you don’t sit your leaving cert maths and French with 40% of the subject already tested ie. if you did well in “homework, class texts” as you say you may only require achieving say 5% in the summer paper to pass the subject. The leaving cert is not continuous assessment based, it’s sit down and answer a paper worth 100% of the content you learnt in the past yr or two. So the pressure is far higher and comes down to rote learning. Marks for 3rd level subjects are typically divided, if STEM based, 30% is on labs throughout the semester, another 20% may be for mid term exam or case study and the summer paper will be worth 50% of the over all subject.
The leaving only suits those who can retain information and regurgitate it on exam day
@Daithí Uí Ciarmhic: so… Intelligent people??
@Chucky Arlaw: the ability to learn and regurgitate is only one aspect of intelligence (and success hinges greatly on the quality of input- those accessing grinds or hothouse schools have an advantage). It is much more rounded than that and also covers things like how learning can be applied in novel situations (with which many good LC students can struggle in college), self awareness, cognitive flexibility, problem-solving, emotional intelligence, creativity and insight and innovation, etc. Which is why there are many very successful people out there who never completed/did well in exams. Unfortunately though our current system fails students in these other areas, leaving kids to feel useless when they do in fact have many other skills and talents. And comments like yours dont help.
Best advice for any LC student, you can always do it again next year.
Yes , then face your first life lesson , that it’s useless , good for nothing unless a million other things are in your favour .
@Gerry Campbell: did you think you were done gerry? Real lesson is that you will have to continue to strive, continue to learn and adapt, whether that is in college or wherever. I never thought that it finished with LC for me, but definitely had notion that education was finished with degree. Never finished.
@Gerry Campbell: unless you do use it as a foundation for your continued education in life. Did my leaving very in 1998 and still doing courses and exams in 2017 (outside my day job as an engineer).
I did think when I was finished few… worst exams of my life over…. ha…. 5 years of structural engineering exams later I realised I was so naive. But college days for me were the best (not for everyone I know but there is life after the LC). Whatever people choose in life be happy, you do control your own life and do not blame others for your hand dealt, everyone has issues and challenges they have to face. Some just hid it.
Good luck to all doing exams.
@Gerry Campbell:
Most employers are looking for a positive ‘can do’ attitude. If all they see is negativity sitting in front of them they’re unlikely to hire you. Tough, but that’s life in the real world.
@Vincent: True but engineers tend to be life long learners as the profession is constantly changing and attracts people who like learning or at least solving problems that require learning. Having said that college for me was probably one the toughest but most rewarding experiences. We have a system thats geared towards producing college entrants. We have little or no vocational training. This is a real gap. Academics will tend to have a view thats whats good for academia is good for society. My eldest daughter has just finished an excellent tranistion year program. It will probably benefit her more in real terms than the next two years of LC study.
Go to drama school and learn to talk the talk rather than walk the walk. An inate ability to talk BS, not working hard, will get you further in this little country of ours
What about students with learning difficulties whose school can’t provide them with the requirements they need to have their exams taken on equal footing to other students?
What about students who are struggling with mental health or physical health issues and thus cannot study for exams, even though in-class testing placed them at a B average?
“If you want something, you need to work hard to get it” is all well and good in a direct-to-tv movie but in real life there is so much more going on.
Anxiety Attacks developed during the final exam year due to that exact statement. This belief that a Leaving Cert is your only way forward.
The belief that this is your only chance because no one ever mentions holding off exams until the following year or even redoing certain exams until you have failed or gotten lackluster results.
No information in regards to PLC courses available if you don’t do well. No discussion besides the joking “you only need 45 points for a jam making course”.
And let’s not mention the fees just to apply to college through the CAO scheme which can cause significant stress to those living in poverty.
There is much more at fault for peoplw’s failings at exam times than people like the writer here seem to realise.
@Shannon Mcg: ok maybe valid points but can’t be complaining about everything or end up doing nothing. Everyone has stuff going on in their life.
@Shannon Mcg: You need to stop limiting your thinking. If you want to succeed you’ll have to get creative. 9 to 5 Employment is for those who don’t possess enough imagination or grit.
Found it a very interesting read . No system is every perfect and the Leaving Certificate could do with a shake up . However studying for it does teach you ‘ work ethic ‘ and shows you that despite having a less advantaged background you can achieve success . It can provide a stepping stone for future education if that’s what you want but it can also give you a glow of satisfaction , knowing you can achieve something by sheet hard work . Our system , like our country , is far from perfect but I believe it’s one of the best in the world.
I would take it anytime over the system in the USA .
Some valid points there however, I think if you look at Ireland’s performance as regards languages including our own, you see there is a problem. Most people in Ireland have only one language. Language itself is learned through memory so I think the real problem with the leaving cert. is that teachers only have students prepared for exams and don’t encourage critical thinking which I think is much more beneficial. I don’t think plagiarism is any problem once students are shown how to research correctly and cite their work. In my experience school didn’t prepare me for the real-world but college did, so if all goes tits up in your Leaving cert. wait until you are a mature student and gain entry that way!
The problem is the leaving cert doesn’t prepare people for third level study. There is a complete lack of critical thinking skills plus the leaving cert material has been targeted and pinpointed. One of my lecturer friends years ago tried to help his daughter study as he had specialty in one particular area. She refused flat out and told him the teachers told her what to write. Kids come into university writing the essays the write for leaving cert and they just are right or good enough. They have no sense of time management because parents organise everything from after school study to mid term break revision classes and even home study. All the while running their children to and from these places cooking and cleaning for them. Come university it’s not just study skills these kids have to learn but basic life management skills. University lecturers here are completely frustrated with the leaving certificate in its present form. There is no preparation and all it says is that these kids can learn stuff off. There is talk of introducing philosophy at leaving cert level in order to foster critical thinking skills. I don’t know if that would be enough. I do think a complete overhaul is necessary and we should definetly not look to the US as a model to follow. Btw kids here rip stuff off the internet too that’s why most universities use turnitin.
@Catherine Sims: you can’t do well in LC English or History without critical thinking skills- you have to be able to think on your feet and adapt your knowledge as questions are phrased in very different ways every year. Unfortunately there are no bonus points for HL English so many bright kids do OL as it’s a lot less work.
@Catherine Sims: i don’t see why a completely new subject needs to be introduced to teach critical thinking skills. Students would be better served by revising the subjects already in place as many won’t opt for yet another (humanities) subject. Very typically Irish solution though, for example you see it with driving legislation: keep introducing new legislation without honing or enforcing what is already in place.
I remember saying to my children that the leaving cert does not measure what they are like as a person, how good or kind or thoughtful or caring they were or how committed they were to any chosen path or project.
Being able to regurgitate Shakespeare or understand what was in the mind of a poet, or do some complex mathematics or Irish, French, Spanish translations, does not measure your creative or indeed computer programming skills or logic.
On this basis I believe that putting all your eggs (the state education system) in one basked is flawed and creates a divide that is hard to cross. 600 points does not make you a better doctor, architect, teacher or nurse then someone else which is the major flaw in the points race.
We make the leaving cert as the be all and end all of life for teenagers – but at the end of the day they can achieve what they wish is they want with further education through the “further education” colleges and as a mature student if they wish. Heaping all the pressure on this age group is unfair and for those who are not prepared for any reason (maybe illness, maybe just a bad day, maybe home disaster, or simply the inability to get the time to study or 1001 other reasons outside their control) it can be a knock in life from which they take a long time to recover – if that is a “valuable life lesson” a better life lesson would be that everyone is different and the leaving cert, as a way of measuring a persons value, is flawed and everyone should be valued equally as a person as everyone has something to contribute.
Just my 2 pence worth.
Hmmmm I’d say I remember about 10% of the info taught in school. 8% of that info is mostly useless unless I’m in a quiz about cloud names or dates of when someone of supposed significance was born/died (now easily accessible by our new teacher Google). The problem with rote learning is you can’t remember it all far past the exam. Most of the stuff I remember is from moments a decent engaging teacher got the class interested in a topic.
I don’t agree with the author’s point around a high leaving cert rewarding a strong work ethic. I remember plenty of people who things came much easier to and used mnemonics etc. as shortcuts. I also remember some people who spent 5 hours a night studying and did crap in their exams…I believe the common thing among the two is not work ethic but that both were not served by an adaptable teaching system that flex it teaching style to that of the individual pupil. Some schools are trying this now in the U.S. and the initial stats are very interesting.
Equating high points with work ethic gives the inverse that low points demonstrates low work ethic. It shouldn’t be able how many hours you spend learning by rote regurgitating whatever answers the teacher gave you for possible L.C. questions they ‘expected’ to come up.
Finally this quote “Leaving Cert teaches valuable life lessons. If you want something, you need to work hard to get it. Sometimes, even if you work very hard for something, you might still fall short”…if that what he thinks then all the L.C. is doing is setting you up for disappointment because sorry to burst your bubble buddy, life is definitely not that simple. There’s plenty of people we all meet daily who got somewhere (especially in this country) through nepotism and little to no hard work.
@RogerRamjet: the only stuff I remember from my Leaving Cert is stuff I learned by rote! Poetry, scientific formulae etc… commit it to memory and it sticks for ever- don’t know why it gets such a bad rap.
@RogerRamjet: I absolutely agree with you – I managed to get through the leaving with almost no study – even doing geography without going to geography class – and I passed – whereas others I know spent hours at night studying and failed the same subject. (College did catch me out though).
I do believe that it measures something – but maybe more like the long distance runner versus the high jumper – both can be top of their class – but only one can win if they compete against each other – and the leaving cert is like a long distance race, it does not really support creative thinking.
While the cert is a major pain for youngsters, its a necessary right of passage, in comparison, college and later work bases tests are a breeze.
Failed it. No interest and had very little relevance to my youth and the council estate I grew up in. My valuable life lessons included poverty, experiencing violence, growing up gay and travelling outside this myopic utopia. Have since educated myself to Masters level. This does not make me a better person than the ‘uneducated’.
Its a memory test
@Darren Carroll:
True for the most part, but the harder you work the more you’re likely to remember.
The British system seems to work well ,where the “academic ” go on to study to get into university,whereas those with little interest in” academia” follow their interests onto their area of interest from age 16.By the time they are 18 they are quite proficient,and confident in their specialised interest .The leaving cert caters to one type of intelligence ,and looses a lot of brilliant people in doing so .
The biggest thing I learned from my daughter doing her leaving cert is that you need money to ensure your child does well. Grinds, revision courses, tutors etc are all essential if you are going for points. Especially when the higher level maths teacher misses classes regularly because he’s coaching the 2nd year football team! Her entire maths class failed the mock exam. The same for higher level geography. The teachers didn’t care. A lot of work and a lot of money on tutors later she got honours in both but we had to live on baked beans and go into debt to give her the opportunity to succeed.
It’s one of fairest systems available. Work hard get good results. Unfortunately people would rather hand out participation medals instead of recognising actual achievement.
The leaving cert aint worth the paper its wrote on .
The leaving cert is a horrific pressurised speed writing and memory test – nothing more. In no way does it measure intelligence or skills learned or aquired understanding or knowledge. Its regressive at best. As someone who was identified at 27 with dyslexia having completed school and college without anyone in the system noticing it shows how outdated the leaving cert and the education system actually is.
I got the points that I deserved because I put hard work into studying, an ethos that I developed in school.
I believe that all students should have equal access to learning e.g. extra tuition. Anybody doing the Leaving Cert has an equal opportunity on the day, it’s a fair and equal system.
In terms of accessing a place in college, we need to adapt a system similar to our counterparts in the UK, an application letter and interview. I’m studying to become a primary school teacher, and a few of my classmates decided that it wasn’t for them after a few weeks. If we had a similar system to the UCAS, I would imagine that our drop out rates would decrease.
Remember that only a small percentage of people do what they have actually set out to do at the time of their Leaving Cert.
Not in this country where those that don’t gwt up in the morning are rewarded with free housing, social welfare, medical cards etc. Bus drivers are maki g more than junior doctors and nurses. The leaving cert is only valuable to get out of Ireland and make simething of yourself abroad. People live to work in Ireland.
The author needs to chill out and check out google. It’s got all the answers
It seems to me that the leaving certis just a stepping stone to the rest of life. What students choose to do afterwards is entirely up to themselves and they need foundation training rather than embarking on third level degree courses which might end up as a dead end. Some ofmy own kids found out the hard way taking courseswhich there was little job opportunities afterwards. Aircraft technicians for example need practical experience not easily found in this country or teaching degrees where there is not much chance of gaining employment. School leavers need to know the facts before they waste the next few years at thwir parents expense. Sign up for a twelve month foundation course would be my advice.
@Elaine Dobbyn: I disagree. The skills required really aren’t comparable to the critical thinking skills required at third level .
The LC is the only ‘check’ in the entire 14 year system. The only reason a student studies LC maths is he or she has already studied JC maths. Whether they were any good or achieved any standard is ignored. You progress according to age, not ability, 10, 11, 12, 13, you keep ‘progressing’ onwards until the LC, which is the only check point where anybody says ‘STOP’!
It doesn’t work if you dossed in 6th year and managed to do pretty well anyway.
It needs to be asked, what purpose does the leaving cert fulfill for the student?
Realistically it’s a points race used to filter applicants into 3rd level cases but why is it the function of secondary schools to do this. If the function of secondary education is to educate then students are missing out a valuable opportunity and resources are wasted.
Absolute tripe. The LC has ZERO critical thinking. Its based on pure regurgitation, nothing more than an ability to recite information.
Secondary, the LC does not reflect hard work. Someone who’s worked their ass of may still only get C’s & D’s, while others may get A’s. Hard work is not a direct path to results.
Thirdly, if you can (& call it what it is: brown nose/daddys golf buddies/or posh schooling) network then youll go a hell of a lot further than anyone with a good exam result.
Finally, when you’re in a job & results are needed, no one is gonna come asking you about your LC. They will only ask if the job is done & done well. And I guarantee you, no Irish History Assistant professor will be backing you up about hard work in the leaving cert when your staring down a P45.
@The Throwaway: show me any career where ‘networking’ won’t give you a SERIOUS advantage.
Unfortunately to get on in higher education,our kids need that bit of paper to start life,needs hard work obviously,im dreading the years ahead for my teen
I agree with having exams but i don’t adhere to the notion that they are an indication of successful strategies for life. I have a degree in Architectural Science from Trinity College yet it is of very limited use to me. Monopolization of my profession by the RIAI has meant that I’ve had to completely reinvent myself. I would probably be wealthier now if i hadn’t got my degree. However, I’m not moaning- It was my choice to follow the flawed advice. I now see how badly thought out the education system is.
That’s not comparing like with like. Some people can be very good students but fall apart at exams. Some could be very good with their hands but not academically inclined so, no matter how hard they work, the probably wouldn’t do very well in exams. In my opinion there should be more options for less academically inclined people – after the Junior Cert. e.g more trade courses encouraged.
have your say