Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
EFFORTS ARE UNDERWAY to write the first edition of a coding and programming textbook that could be used in Irish secondary schools – all in one day.
Several groups will be putting their heads together to write the book, which will then be released online to download for free.
It comes ahead of the introduction of coding as part of a major revamp of the Junior Certiciate cycle.
Part of the new Junior Cycle Student Award (JCSA) will include Programming and Coding, where students will learn how to write and test computer code.
This development was welcomed by one of the groups taking part today, Open Knowledge Foundation Ireland (OKF Ireland), and hopes that today’s textbook will be used in the course.
OKF Ireland say that they have developed a technique for ‘rapidly developing learning resources’ such as the coding textbook today.
Other groups involved include Open Data Science Group, Code for All Ireland, and Code for Dublin.
A number of teachers will be lending their expertises.
Today’s event is being hosted by Facebook at its European HQ in Dublin and is part of International Open Data Day.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
It would be brilliant to see programming become part of the curriculum both at Junior Cycle and for Leaving Cert. It’s a great skill to have and it promotes problem solving ability, which would be a nice change from the current rote learning which is prominent at second level.
It’s about time they decided to move the education system in the 21st century. The educational system we work off currently was designed for the industrial revolution and much of it is pointless for a modern working world.
I’d rather have my child be taught programming skills. than sit in a religious education class!
Aren’t they trying to introduce change? Aren’t the teachers trying to block it?
There should be raspberry pis and arduino projects in the technology curriculum instead of lame 555 timer projects.
Don’t know of a single school that does any electronics….
I did it in Engineering for LC, Danny. Used mechanical to build the project ad electronics to make it work. Not all schools offer engineering though.
Technology is a subject on the curriculum. Not all schools do it.
Your wrong. The teachers are understandably concerned about the assessment of the exam. Teachers will have to assess the pupils work and grade them as such. So really you could have parents putting major pressure on teachers to give their son/daughter a good result. There is a huge amount of problems with this introduction. But that is the major one. What I’d to say is this is just a publicly stunt as the programming is a short course that the school may “course” to run! In essence, hardly any school will run this short course. Schools will just stick with the short courses that are within their resources. You need a teacher with programming experience or a teacher willing to learn code and teach a class this. Ruairi Quinn is hardly giving teachers any PD for this new cycle(which is another reason teachers are striking) so you’d hardly expect him to pay for developing teachers knowledge in coding! I’m afraid to say what your looking at here is the sham of reform that the government is talking about! In reality it looks good, but the coding books will be left in some teachers cabinet gathering dust, while the assessment will be multiple choice on a sheet of A4 paper! Welcome to the reform revolution!
That was for @nialls
Straight swap for Religious Education.
Brilliant idea!
This is a great idea. The part I struggled with most in college was learning coding, it was like Klingon to me; I absolutely hadn’t got a notion. Computing is essential for any scientific career, and the greater fluency our young people have with the various languages, the better it will be for all of us. Not to mention the opportunities for budding app entrepreneurs.
I would say that some foundation in coding is a huge advantage in many careers, not just science.
Computing is used by most people in their jobs. If an accountant or an operations manager can converse with a developer more fluently, then they will more likely get software delivered to them that is really useful and productive, even if they do not write a line of code of it themselves.
I just hope it’s not too web centric. The Facebook involvement has me worried the course could focus of HTML, CSS and Javascript to the exclusion of all else. They should be taught real programming languages and about computer architecture as well
Javascript isn’t a real programming language?
No – it has limited application outside of UI manipulation in your browser. It is becoming used less with HTML5 and CSS3 allowing you to more of this declaratively.
You may be thinking of Java, while syntactically similar to Javascript, is the “grownup” version.
JavaScript is still very much used. It’s mostly encapsulated by frameworks and libraries though, and is even on the server with node.js
Keith – Cobol is still much used also and is good as dead. I agree that libraries like JQuery have given it a new lease of life, but I think that those libraries as well as advancements in html and css will eventually relegate it to a place close to where scripting for unix now resides – little used outside of labs as tools such as job scheduling, backups and others have taken its place as superior and faster methods for deployment, etc.
Really? In universities, there is a huge push on JavaScript. Angular, backbone and the likes of kinetic with HTML5 Canvas, taking over from Flash, Flex Silverlight etc…
I work in industry and for example in the Oracle world, 5 years ago JavaScript was widely used to fill gaps in web ui development where the development frameworks such as Apex and ADF fell short.
Nowadays with the latest versions of those tools, little or no JavaScript is required outside of what is generated by the framework, which leverages html5 and css3. The push is to allow more and more to be acheived declaratively, rather than hand coded.
Having said that, from an education standpoint, we still need people to learn the basics of coding and JavaScript is as good as any other vehicle. After all, we want to turn out people who will be creative with computing, not just a nation of users who know how to use powerful tools with no understanding of how they work.
Alan, Java and Javascript have nothing more than the word “Java” in common. That, and they are both horrible to write.
HTML & CSS cannot, by definition of what type of language they are, “relegate” Javascript. HTML is a markup language, not scripting. CSS is a stylesheet language, not scripting.
By the way, shell scripting is still very widely used. Stating otherwise shows how little insight you have in to the industry.
Does the reformed junior cycle include other IT study as coding in isolation seems odd
If you understand code you understand databases, servers, how info is shared. Coding is a door opener to other areas of IT
It’s all ones and zeros
Just typing really
They won’t learn much real world applications of what they learn but will learn how to think like a coder which is a huge win and the most important thing to learn at that level.
Yes , if it’s taught badly .
Good idea alright. Programming is more accessible than people think, being a serious maths head helps but isn’t a prerequisite at all.
Did anyone ever learn ‘Pascal’ & COBOL?
loved cobol , great language to learn as a young’un.
IT would be great for them to start with JavaScript, which is up and coming on both client and server with the likes of Angular, backbone and Node. Once you learn the basics with JS, learning PHP, Ruby, VB, and other scripting languages gets easier, which can then look at C#, C++, C, Java, Scala amongst others. Learning SQL querying is also important as Big Data and Data Analytics will be the next big thing according to Accenture.
When your young, keep it simple.
If Irish schools can get a class of 30 kids to output a “Hello world” line to screen it would be a great victory.
The heavy lifting can be left to college.
Yeah, I was alluding to that. sorry if it did not come across like that
Should be a TY module instead of part of the Junior Cert. Students aren’t going to take it seriously when they have subjects with exams to worry about
You mean like the way they take Irish seriously because that has exams?
No, I mean like the way they take S.P.H.E seriously because they don`t have exams.
The new JC will be not so much exam based. They will have several short courses. It’s not like you can compare current JC with the new one.
The whole thing of the new junior cert is continuous assessment, so you will constantly be doing exams throughout the year, on top of a final exam in 3rd year.
No, you won’t.
That’s just what they’d have you believe.
So what are you continuiosly assessed on then? Your homework??
If you read the syllabus and curricular docs, you would see the CA’s would be course work, like you have in some subjects like History, Home Ec, Art etc which is Project based, not exam based.
Having programming/coding on the Junior Cert is a good idea, but having a follow up course on the Leaving Cert would be an even better idea!
What’s the point in a 15 year old falling in love with his/her ability to solve problems then apply them in an application they built themselves if they won’t be able to do it again until college 3 years later?
Also, a textbook for programming/coding isn’t a necessity. I’m a final year in Software Engineering and I haven’t bought one book in 4 years. I’ve only looked in the recommended ones a handful of times. YouTube videos/tutorials and forums have almost single handedly gotten me this far!
Getting them involved in Scratch in junior school would be even better.
While most junior schools use computing in some form, it more as a user to teach something else.
Kids are “users” of modern devices in a way that is far more intuitive to prior generations. If we can encourage kids to be creative on computers, to challenge what the software industry hands to them on a plate and to ask more often, “why can I not do this?” and “Is there a way for me to make it do what I want?”
Start off with the basics and work up to coding skills. Computing is a vast area with different operating systems on mobile and dedicated laptops etc. People can then decide on one platform or various.
Look at the guy that sold whatsapp to fbook for $ billions. Literally a rags to riches story. And he started coding at the age of 16.
Great idea to start somewhere though.
So it’s just coding they’ll be teaching as part an IT subject? No web design, media design, computer networks, work with physical hardware, database management? A poor taught out idea if it’s just pure code.
Coding is a fairly important foundation for most IT skills. Web design, database/sql, hell even sys admin with Unix or Powershell scripting. It is a good thing to focus on at the start and then college can get more specific.
Fair point Dave! But even if the students were given a small introduction to another area of IT it could really spark their interest if coding isn’t for them.
Agreed! When I was doing computer science there were people who loved the media, hardware side and didn’t like coding and never got in IT. I def would agree that covering other areas would be a big benefit. It does depend on how much time will be devoted to it in schools I guess,.
There is also Digital Media and Digital Literacy, two separate areas, as this is only initially a short course, it has to be more specific.
I disagree Michel. Teaching children programming is a wonderful idea, a straight swap for religion and Irish would make sense. You’ve obviously never heard of Coder Dojo or the other wonderful initiatives that are out there for children to learn logic. I’ve taught young children, secondary school kids and adults programming since the 70s and it’s a fantastic medium to teach in. The earlier it’s taught the better. Children’s levels of literary and numeracy rocket when they’ve exposed to programming and logic. Their ability to problem solve increases, it’s all positives.
I agree with this.
This will do more damage than good! Children already spend too much time on computers and this will only provide an excuse for more of this at the expense of basic skills such as literacy and numeracy. Coding is appropriately a third level subject and there is no good reason to introduce it into secondary education. I speak from experience as a maths and computer science lecturer who would much prefer to have basic numeracy emphasised rather than dubious coding skills in our secondary schools!
It doesn’t have to be at the expense of traditional ’3xRs,’ education.
If schools dropped the Jesus stuff, there is sufficient time.
Oh dear lord go back the the 50′s baby boomer. Coding teaches numeracy and literacy as you have to sift through code to make sure it is syntactically constructed correctly. Don’t comment on what you do not know.
Generation Y/Z is all about multitasking, digital literacy, they know this. There is every reason, as the economy demands computer literate students, to teach proper computing in schools, speaking from experience as a second level teacher and lecturer in several subject areas.
The reason maths has been so poor in the past few years is a) they dumbed the syllabus down b) they are pushing this project maths which shows a false threshold of ability, to try and get students to do STEM at university, when they really are not able c) maths teachers have not been totally qualified to teach maths, or do not have the ability to teach maths effectively to a variety of learner types. Learners learn very differently to how they did in the 90′s
Michel, saying “Children already spend too much time on computers” is like saying they spend too much time with reading paper. If you’re implying they spend too much time on social media and games then really it’s down to the parents to curb that and it’s nothing to do with giving a good life skill to a child.
I totally agree Greg. We have to get away from this old style of education. Put the horse before the cart. Rather than thinking that you must learn maths by theory before you code, use coding as a practical immersion in the concept of maths.
Treat it like learning spoken foreign languages – the fastest method to get the basics is to immerse yourself in it and come back to learning the grammar, spelling later to polish it up.
MIT supports this idea through Scratch as a vehicle to get kids to learn the principles of maths.
Put people in a place where they must try to learn new skills to solve a problem posed or the opportunity to do something fun. Teachers then take on a role of supporting them in the learning process rather than teaching AT them.
**Keith
My humble apologies!
FYI I teach computer graphics programming using OpenGl/VisualC++, a core element of modern computing. In my experience teaching this subject, an initial deficiency in coding skill is easily overcome whereas a deficiency in basic maths/trigonometry/vector algebra causes real and in cases insurmountable difficulties in getting to grips with the subject. As a maths lecturer also I find the suggestion that hacking code will improve your maths skills to be utter nonsense and the multitude of programmers who are numerophobic is ample proof of that. I agree that the basic problem of maths skills deficiencies in Ireland goes back to a poorly designed and delivered second level syllabus but the notion that this will be improved by introducing programming into secondary schools is preposterous!
You are missing a vital point. It is being introduced in secondary level to encourage more young people to persue it in third level, especially girls who see it as being more of a ‘boys thing’ . At present it is mainly a male dominated industry. If girls are exposed to it at a younger age, they will gave a better idea of what it entails and will have the confidence to apply in third level.
Delighted to see skills like coding become part of the course- Should replace wasting time teaching tech savvy teens about Microsoft Word and how to send an e mail for two years straight!
Parents should consider downloading it with their children. As my daughter will just miss out on the new junior cycle (if its ever allowed to be implemented) I will be teaching her myself
I taught myself BASIC at 13 years old on a Sinclair ZX spectrum 128k+2 and looked for further tuition in secondary school only to hit a brick wall. Now 20 years later I can’t believe they still have not introduced this. Knowledge economy my arse.
Bit late. Preschoolers in China have been learning code while we’ve been sitting on our arses debating whether teachers work too hard or not here.
Teachers complain a lot that they are not treated or paid like the highly educated professionals that they are.
However, at the slightest hint of a new curriculum, they want long courses, preferably on school/term time.
Other professions are expected to involve themselves in continued professional development, mostly on their own time and often at their own cost. It is expected that after completing a degree, you no longer have to be molly-coddled with courses for this or that. We are living in an age with almost infinite knowledge and academic resources available free online.
So why are so many teachers computer illiterate beyond Word or Excel? Why can they not just get on with it from a simple booklet on a new curriculum with a list of web addresses for further reading in their own time?
If you are a born problem solver then you will seek out and acquire all the tools necessary to solve the problems you are faced with .. one of which is of course coding. (Maths, Science, Digital Electronics, … etc also come to mind)
It is essential to “expose” kids to coding as a tool for problem solving. Ruby is one of my favorites.
Of course we all know of how much lousy code is coded (blue screens). Learning to code does not necessarily produce reliable code. The French teach philosophy in their schools which it is claimed makes them some of the best software producers in the world. Logical rational thinking skills may be even more fundamentally important for kids to get sane sound judgments across all important decisions in life. Could even assist them when it comes to voting … maybe even prevent the next crash!
Ruby Rocks!
If/when coding is introduced to the JC cycle it will finally be a step in the right direction. One of my kids is in TY and has taught himself several programming languages, mainly because it isn’t available in the mainstream schooling. To be honest it’s all Dutch to me, but he is loving it.
Coder Dojo is another wonderful idea, they provide free programming/coding classes to kids from as young as 8 an they have classes all over the country.
The teaching unions have to against this.
Java for me love it :)
I don’t know a huge amount about the subject – things have come such a long way since my childhood when I used to write simple programs and games on Qbasic. These days I can barely string together a bit of HTML.
I think that’s a massive shame. On a personal level, I’m desperate to learn more (it’s just a time issue) – but I think bring up the next generation with at least a basic working knowledge has got to be a positive thing? Why shouldn’t it be as important as reading and maths?
Seriously they should improve the quality of teaching in their maths curriculum instead. Coding can be learned at any stage , it isn’t rocket science.
However ,Calculus is required by the engineering,computer,science and financial courses in third level institutions and to date there is no such thing as a precalculus course. The divide between LC and third level calculus is immense and there seems to very little support to students who run into difficulty here. i think introducing the ideas of calculus gradually to students at J.C would be a far better rather than getting an aneurysm in first year computer science.
This is just another knee jerk reaction.
It makes no sense to teach a programming language to everyone. Better idea to teach kids to “think”, problem solve and use the various computing tools available to solve problems.
Functional decomposition, understanding appropriate structures for different problems, searching, sorting etc etc etc……
The “good” coder dojos take this approach — and are not especially focused on programming.
Most programming is already carried out in the far east — so I can’t see why anyone thinks this is a good idea.
I have a lot of time for the current MoE but in this instance he is very poorly advised or informed.
No we should teach Irish and religion only- these give vital life skills that are completely and utterly useless
have your say