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'Is it real money? Loans? Grandpa's old socks?': Climate finance talks split on substance

Read an extract from The Journal’s climate newsletter sent from the ground at COP29.

LAST UPDATE | 14 Nov 2024

This is article is taken from the latest edition of Temperature Check, The Journal’s climate newsletter, which is sending special extra editions covering COP29 in Azerbaijan. To receive Temperature Check to your inbox, sign up in the box at the end of this article.   

There’s a lot of work to be done to get countries to agree on the details of the new climate finance goal that’s meant to be coming out of COP29.

Monday’s newsletter covered the sticking points that were expected to come up in the negotiations. 

Now that we’re a couple of days in, those points of contention are clear in the rooms. A new working draft text is filled with options and sub-options that will need to be whittled down and refined by the end of the conference if a deal is to be done.

“There are clear dividing lines between countries,” said Teresa Anderson, ActionAid International’s Global Lead on Climate Justice.

Speaking to me at the conference, Anderson said that there’s a general sense of agreement that at least the core component of the finance should come through public grants and that the total should be in the region of $1 trillion, but the dilemmas are in the details.

“Developing countries are clear that they need real money in order to advance climate action but what we see is wealthy countries trying to claim that they don’t have the finance and that private finance can fill the gap,” Anderson said.

Anderson said that wealthy countries are “trying to add all sorts of multi-layer investment goals into the new climate finance goal and developing countries are very concerned that investment and loans are being used to displace the pressure for real climate finance”, adding: “We can’t have investment seen as a substitute for finance.”

“Where there are two areas of broad consensus is that there should be some grants and that we’re talking about $1 trillion or more in money – so the question is, what kind of money? Is it real money, or is it loans? Is it corporate investment? Is it carbon markets? Is it grandpa’s old socks? That’s where the disagreement is – on the quality of that target,” she said.

“We see that the new text reflects that range of positions and definitely reflects developed countries’ attempts to count any kind of finance under the sun as climate finance.” 

This is The Journal’s fourth year covering the important COP climate conference in person, a sign of our commitment to keep a sharp focus on one of the key challenges facing our world. It’s a commitment that costs time and financial resources to fund but we think it’s worth it. If you think it is important too, please support our readers’ contribution fund here. 

The High Ambition Coalition, an informal group of countries that was founded to push for high ambition in the Paris Agreement, released a statement on Wednesday saying that “trillions of dollars” are required. It said that “grant-based” and “concessional” (ie low interest loans) forms of finance are required but that the “right conditions for green investments” (private finance) should also be put in place – essentially, lining up with the position of most wealthy countries.

Ireland is among the countries on the coalition, represented by Minister for Climate Eamon Ryan. After arriving in Azerbaijan late last night, Ryan made his first appearance at COP today, officially starting his stint as a co-facilitator of the talks on climate adaptation.

In between meetings, he spoke to the small contingent of journalists attending the conference from Ireland. 

(Well, it started with the small contingent, but a group of people crowding around someone with cameras and microphones is the journalist equivalent of a moth to a flame; our little group rapidly expanded as other reporters in the vicinity hurried over to grab some quotes for themselves. A couple asked me who this fella was. I think another might have addressed him as ‘prime minister’ at one point.)

IMG_7882 Minister for Climate Eamon Ryan surrounded by international journalists at COP29 Lauren Boland / The Journal Lauren Boland / The Journal / The Journal

The climate minister brought up the comments made yesterday by Azerbaijan’s president about fossil fuels being “a gift from God” and that Azerbaijan should not be blamed for selling oil and gas.

Ryan said that transitioning to renewable energy and improving energy efficiency is “the peace project of our time” in order to reduce conflicts catalysed by extraction of oil and gas, then went on to say that he knew Azerbaijan’s president had “said yesterday about God-given fossil fuels and that we have to use them, but God also gave renewables”.

“It comes down from the heavens in the form of solar power and the weather systems. That’s going to be the centre of the energy transition, the economic transition, the just transition,” he said.

Ryan said that renewables are expanding massively but that there is a discrepancy between clean energy investments into developed and developing countries.

“There’s a fundamental justice issue that the capital is there for Europe, for China, for America, but for lower income countries, either they’re frozen out of the markets or the interest rates are a multiple of what they are in the developed countries. That’s what this COP is about. It’s about changing the financial system so that fundamental injustice does not continue into the future.”

On whether Ireland might ever pursue nuclear power, he said: “I don’t think Ireland would go into nuclear, because God looked after Ireland by giving it a lot of wind, and we’ve already shown, even in cloudy Ireland, that solar is now cheaper.”

1IMG_7681 Scene from the venue: The Brazil pavilion at COP29. Brazil is lined up to host the next COP in 2025. Lauren Boland / The Journal Lauren Boland / The Journal / The Journal

As it happens, earlier in the day I had met up with Dr Fionn Rogan, a senior research fellow in energy systems modelling at University College Cork, and we talked about where Ireland and the world need to get to on energy

The last COP that Dr Rogan attended before this one was COP21 in 2015 when the Paris Agreement was signed. He said renewable energy has come a long way since then but we’re still not yet driving down energy emissions far enough.

“Clean energy investment is now double fossil fuel energy investment. There’s a lot happening on the deployment of renewable energy, particularly solar, but that hasn’t fully translated into emissions reductions,” he said.

“That’s part of the challenge. You’ll hear people here at the COP praising the deployment of renewables, which is true, but we haven’t been fully reducing emissions at the same time. That’s a problem.”

Dr Rogan said that Ireland has made progress on decarbonising electricity, though not as quickly as it ideally should be.

“We’re at about 40% renewable electricity and our transition plan is around electrifying everything – electrifying heat, electrifying transport,” he said – but “if the electricity demand is growing faster than the level of renewables are coming online, then we’re not getting that decarbonisation to happen”. 

“How we heat our buildings and how we transport ourselves and our goods – we need to decarbonise those and that’s will happen through electrification but also through demand management,” he said.

“In transport, it’s about how we get around, how we go to work, how we commute, how we go to school, how we hang out with our friends, how we go shopping. We are still very car dependent in Ireland. Electrification is part of the solution but we don’t want to have grid lock with electric cars – that’s only marginally better than gridlock with petrol and diesel cars. We need a whole systems approach.”

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    Mute Marvin Dollery
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    Dec 31st 2024, 11:22 AM

    Pretty much a given considering we are in the depths of winter. This weather is normal, predictable and consistent. Have a wonderful day all.

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    Mute Big Beats
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    Dec 31st 2024, 11:55 AM

    @Marvin Dollery: like that song.. ohh the weather outside is…. weather.

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    Mute Me Me
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    Dec 31st 2024, 2:04 PM

    @Marvin Dollery: Given that it is, as you say, predictable isn’t it nice of Met Eireann to share their predictions?

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    Mute Setanta O'Toole
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    Dec 31st 2024, 6:51 PM

    @Marvin Dollery: nobody else is afraid of these stories Marvin, no need to share your coping mechanisms.

    32
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    Mute Marvin Dollery
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    Dec 31st 2024, 7:07 PM

    @Setanta O’Toole: Except for the kids your lot torment with constant climate change catastrophe dialogue despite it not ever going to happen. Maybe think before posting ridiculous comments.

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    Mute Setanta O'Toole
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    Dec 31st 2024, 8:08 PM

    @Marvin Dollery: never talked to anyone about climate change in my life Marv, you are just projecting.

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    Mute Pork Hunt
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    Dec 31st 2024, 8:36 PM

    @Marvin Dollery: mystic Marvin and the old Moore’s almanac all rolled into one

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    Mute Setanta O'Toole
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    Dec 31st 2024, 9:13 PM

    @Pork Hunt: if his climate change predictions are anything like his election ones, we better brace for an imminent apocalypse.

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    Mute 087 bed
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    Dec 31st 2024, 11:44 AM

    Hopefully in the new year we will be allowed to comment on the stories that matter, like long con vid article.

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    Mute Freda Peeple
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    Dec 31st 2024, 11:55 AM

    @087 bed: I know someone who died of long covid recently, so it’s not a con you gimp

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    Mute 087 bed
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    Dec 31st 2024, 12:21 PM

    @Freda Peeple: Another insightful input from you, always one like you “that “knew a fell”, You need to up you’re game in 25.

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    Mute Freda Peeple
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    Dec 31st 2024, 12:31 PM

    @087 bed: Wrong, I was at his funeral at the end of November, 39 from Raheny, Google it you pr7ck

    42
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    Mute Freda Peeple
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    Dec 31st 2024, 1:02 PM

    @Basildon Joe: Nope completely healthy so I think you should keep your “feelings” separate to facts. The likes of yourself, and that other illiterate monkey hate facts.

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    Mute Thomas Sheridan
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    Dec 31st 2024, 10:00 PM

    @087 bed: or maybe mention the foreign looking Dublin bus driver who flattened an eight year old lad with a clatter

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    Mute P. V. Aglue
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    Dec 31st 2024, 11:19 AM

    Happy new year new zealand

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    Mute Marc Power
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    Dec 31st 2024, 3:44 PM

    What a shock. Winter weather in Ireland. In the winter

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    Mute Jack Hayes
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    Dec 31st 2024, 5:11 PM

    @Marc Power: A comment like yours. What a shock.

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    Mute Denis Harkin
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    Dec 31st 2024, 8:05 PM

    The UN must begin the legal process to expel the US from it’s structures, and following a vote, to subsequently assemble an international military force to expel the Nazi Zionist regime from Palestine, Lebanon and Syria.

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    Mute Tony Brady
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    Dec 31st 2024, 8:53 PM

    @Denis Harkin: Yes very hard to think of a happy new year with the US killing children in Gaza.

    34
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    Mute Freda Peeple
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    Dec 31st 2024, 11:55 AM

    Is it still ok to hate the weather?

    22
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    Mute Liam Boyne
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    Dec 31st 2024, 5:13 PM

    How many newborns in Ireland tomorrow, will be Irish, I ponder

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    Mute Athena
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    Dec 31st 2024, 6:55 PM

    @Liam Boyne: Considering they’re born in Ireland, I’d say100%….?

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    Mute Liam Boyne
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    Dec 31st 2024, 7:07 PM

    @Athena: I think you missed completely what I was implying

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    Mute liam ward
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    Dec 31st 2024, 4:46 PM

    And still no response from the journal as to what good are them unlicensed Joe brollies are in their pic accompanying the story to people in the wind n rain apart from been a nuisance to other footpaths users where the spokes can take one’s eye out

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    Mute Liam Boyne
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    Dec 31st 2024, 5:08 PM

    I hope to see mass deportation of several families, in the new year

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    Mute Jamie Hinch
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    Dec 31st 2024, 11:13 AM

    This year has thrown everything at us weather wise, bring it on..

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    Mute Marvin Dollery
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    Dec 31st 2024, 11:23 AM

    @Jamie Hinch: Weren’t you on here saying the last bout of windy weather was akin to a hurricane? It didn’t lift as much as a lid of a bin here in an area that was said to be most affected.

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    Mute Jamie Hinch
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    Dec 31st 2024, 1:13 PM

    @Marvin Dollery: Houses lost their roofs in City and surrounds duringthat storm/hurricane. That was not just windy that night FYI.

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    Mute Marvin Dollery
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    Dec 31st 2024, 2:51 PM

    @Jamie Hinch: It was a windy night, also called a storm. Magnitudes different to a hurricane.

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    Mute Liam Boyne
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    Dec 31st 2024, 5:11 PM

    Hopefully, Israel will flatten Palestine for good

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    Mute Trump24
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    Dec 31st 2024, 1:27 PM

    Lovely day here in Gstaad.

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    Mute Jack
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    Dec 31st 2024, 6:18 PM

    Should really restrict hospital visits and take measures to reduce spread of flu and Covid.

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    Mute Liam Boyne
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    Dec 31st 2024, 6:47 PM

    In 2025, that disgusting Hamas flag, needs to be removed from Leinster House, it’s a pity that this country has absolutely no opposition in the Dail, so depressing

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    Mute Tim Brennan
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    Dec 31st 2024, 4:01 PM

    Some ar*ehole of a country weatherwise

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    Mute Liam Boyne
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    Dec 31st 2024, 5:16 PM

    @Tim Brennan: and politically

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    Mute Jacob
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    Dec 31st 2024, 5:02 PM

    Jeez Kerry and Cork really get the worst weather

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    Mute Liam Boyne
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    Dec 31st 2024, 9:58 PM

    Looks like the little coksucker Brenny mobilised all his multiple accounts to thumbs up to generate favour because his bosses said so, what a rag The Journal.ie is, a lefty rag, nobody take it seriously

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    Mute Liam Boyne
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    Dec 31st 2024, 6:01 PM

    Will Brenny be bringing out his Michael Collins account tonight lol

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