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THE EDITOR OF The Ditch, Eoghan McNeill, has disputed claims by Tánaiste Micheál Martin that the website isn’t “an independent media platform at all” and questioned its political motivations.
Speaking in the Dáil during Leaders’ Questions on Thursday, Martin accused the site of presenting stories in a “selective and distorted way” and questioned where alleged money for paid ads was coming from.
“If you look at that whole campaign and how its organised over the last week, it deserves analysis. The trending, the buildup, the hashtags, the algorithms,” Martin said, before accused The Ditch of attacking other media.
McNeill, who founded the website with Paddy Cosgrave and Chay Bowes, denied claims by Martin on RTÉ’s This Week programme today.
“The first reaction would be one of frustration. Listening to that clip there, you think, ‘alright, thanks Micheál, do you have anything to say about the actual story that we published?’”
“I think a lot of what he said, I’ve called it a heady mix of ignorance and arrogance. Talking about things like hashtags, which we don’t use, talking about paid ads, which we’ve never paid for.”
Junior minister Niall Collins has insisted that he didn’t break any rules after reporting by The Ditch showed that Limerick County Council land was sold to his wife 15 years ago.
The website previously uncovered issues about property ownership that ultimately led to the resignations of ministers Robert Troy and Damien English.
McNeill said that Martin’s comments about how The Ditch’s stories were publicised were untrue.
“We promote our stories by publishing them on our website and then posting them on Twitter. And that’s about the height of it. There was a huge public interest in the story,” he said.
He also took issue with Martin’s view that The Ditch engages in “extraordinary full frontal attacks on the national broadcaster” and other media for not following up on the website’s stories.
“I have criticized the occasional individual journalists, but we have never attacked any media organisation. We’re very appreciative of times when the more established players do cover our stories, and I’m here talking to you! We don’t engage in those kinds of attacks,” McNeill stated.
When asked about the funding of The Ditch, McNeill said that money generated by subscribers was “in the four figures” and that WebSummit, which is owned by Paddy Cosgrave, was expected to donate 1 million euro over the next five years.
McNeill added that he believes transparency around the funding of media organisations is important but “startup media organisations are sometimes held to a higher standard in this regard” than establishment media.
Host Justin McCarthy asked if McNeill agreed with Cosgrave’s view that there should be a change of government.
“Yes. I think a lot of journalists in mainstream outlets would also think that. I’m just being honest about the fact that I do think that,” he replied, adding that Cosgrave has no influence on The Ditch’s reporting.
“We do believe that landholdings and what properties that people own, we think that that’s a real signifier of where power lies.”
McCarthy said: “The Tánaiste says that Paddy Cosgrave’s objective is to take down the government, is that a fair representation do you think, of one of your backers?”
“I think you’d have to ask Paddy about it,” McNeill said.
“Since he was a teenager, he’s been into transparency and accountability. If that transparency and accountability brings down a government, I think that’s kind of melodramatic a little bit.”
Martin’s remarks about The Ditch were protected by Dáil privilege, which shields members of the Dáil from possible defamation when they speak in the Dáil chamber.
The Irish Secretary of the National Union of Journalists, Séamus Dooley, told The Journal that he believed Martin’s use of Dáil privilege to speak about The Ditch was “not acceptable”.
McNeill told RTÉ that he believed Martin had largely avoided speaking about him or his colleague at The Ditch Roman Shortall, who are responsible for the website’s output.
“He abused Dáil privilege to make slanderous attacks on both Roman and I, which I want to be very clear on, he hasn’t repeated,” McNeill said.
“I actually do believe in a free press, I’m not going to run to a lawyer and I would love for him to just go and say stand over it.”
“I was just thinking, ‘okay, great, do you have anything to say about me or Roman? Or are you going to try to tarnish us by association?’ Even though he had the protection of Dáil privilege he wasn’t even comfortable making an actual straightforward statement of fact about us.”
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I live in the states and coach and teach at high school level. It’s funny that I’ve used more Irish here with non speakers than I ever did back home. Why ? Well they love hearing it, and I love that I have a unique language that they’ve never heard before. Don’t get me wrong I’m no linguist when it comes to our native tongue, but I’m not bad. To me it’s important we keep it alive, too much of our past and culture was allowed die or was eradicated by foreign foes, I personally hope it lives forever.
our culture is quite strong as it is, as is represented by music, poetry, dance. Saying a few words in Irish might be quaint and interesting as it has a lot of lilt, but it is just that – a novelty. we do not have heavy funding for the hiberno-English language, yet it is the thriving, expanding first language of the vast majority of the population and an important part of our overall culture, more so than Irish. the problem Irish has is that it wants to be hiberno- english, but cannot break the shackle of the static, dogmatic past that it comes from.
Hiberno-English is thriving???? – I don’t think so. I happened to be at a function last night where many young women were called on to speak a few words and it was notable that American intonation was prevalent in most constributions.
Hiberno-English is thriving?? Not even close.
We might still have an Irish accent, but the vocabulary and sentence structure of Hiberno-English is becoming increasingly Americanized. I left Ireland a few years ago, and I find it shocking how many young people now say things like “awesome” or “that sucks”…things they wouldn’t have said ten or twelve years ago.
Remember Jon Kenny’s “Pat the Baker” ad…about the young fella who comes home talking like a Yank “and he only in America for the weekend”….young people today probably wouldn’t even get the joke, because they use a lot of the same vocabulary that Jon was making fun of.
It’s not just happening to Hiberno-English either…Scots (and Ulster Scots) used to be almost unintelligible to a standard English speaker, but its distinctiveness is being bleached out and it is becoming simply standard English with a Scottish accent.
Hiberno-English is far more like standardized English than it was a century ago, and soon enough it will be nothing more than a quaint and interesting (with a lot of lilt) accent.
Personally I see no use of learning Irish. Egypitans speak Arabic. Even their strong history and heritage has been basically washed away because they look to the future not back in the past. it is more useful for them to have Arabic than a language only a few can speak/read. Only a handful of people speak latin, ancient Greek and so on. they kove forward with the times. Instead of stepping forward we are taking two paces back as usual. to isolate ourselves with a language that is nearly obsolete is ridiculous. English opens up American, Australia, England, Scotland, Wales, New Zealand (but to name a few) even French, Germans, swiss, Italians learn English where as none will ever learn Irish as its of no use to them. English is the way forward. Learn irish all you please but it shouldn’t be forced on school kids not at least until secondary school as a choice subject.
Hiberno-English which owes much to direct translations from the Irish, has almost totally disappeared. For example: “I hit in with X and he stood me a drink” – coming from “Bhual me le X ‘s sheas sé deoch domsa” meaning I accidentally met X and he treated me to a drink in the pub. Usages such as this have almost totally disappeared.
Hiberno – English is moving very quickly to being a dialect spoken by older speakers and therefore it is endangered. More and more younger people are speaking a morse standardised and American-influenced variety of English
Agreed
How can our children be fully Irish if they are denied access to the knowledge of who they culturally are
Because we all have to move forward and that involves letting go of the past. if they want to seek out the knowledge it won’t be hidden from them, they are not being denied anything. Parents, grand parents, great grandparents we all grew up in different eras, where things were done differently. There was a time a donkey was used to plow the land now a tractor is used. There was a time where poor people didn’t attend schools, who didn’t know how to read or write. We progress and move forward, we don’t live in the past.
I’m sorry but “letting go of the past” means just that. Intrinsic to any sense of pride or national identity is a knowledge of one’s past and origins. I am not suggesting that the present pretence surrounding the Irish language should continue, but I can’t help feeling that our current total immersion and homogenization in Anglo-American language and culture is not leaving us impoverished. There is now a move to downgrade the teaching of history and our children are growing up without even a superficial knowledge of the past and how it has shaped us.
My kids are 8, 10 and 16. They get taught Irish history and im glad to say European and Asian, Afrian and American history too. I recall at school I was only ever taught irish history, nothing outside Ireland, I hated that, I wanted to know about Pharaoh’s, mummies, The Greek Gods, Romans, Incas, Zulus, Chineese and Japanese history. I was let down big time. I got the potato famine, De Valera and Walter Raleigh oh and my favourite. Irish legends were also a favourite of mine taught in English.
I’m glad your children are receiving a broad education and I am sorry that your experience of the education system appears to have excluded reference to the outside world. However, I would suggest that the pendulum has swung in the other direction. Today, many if not most young people emerge from school with no knowledge or interest in any language (even clear expression of thoughts and ideas in English). This monoglot attitude and culture is holding us back as a country. I was recently listening to a group of teenagers discussing precisely the issue of identify following a cross border school trip. One remarked “I think we are ‘kind of English’ “,
Yeah Lily……yer right…..and all those castles and ring forts an other old stuff from the past, we need to bulldoze them outta the way as well, sure what use are they?
It a sad indictment on the irish education system and Irish teachers when the vast majority of coming out of school after 14 years can’t string a few sentences together.
Waste of time being forced to learn it, more European languages would have been much more useful!
It might be but who’s going to teach it.
@mickmc: There are plenty of cunning linguists available!
No! It is a sad indictment of the meon aigne of the general populace that there is not an active interest in speaking Gaeilge outside the school system. For a language to prosper it must be spoken live in natural everyday situations without the overall fear of the gramadach purists. I recall native Irish speakers coming to train as teachers only to be told there written and spoken Irish was not”chart de réir an Chaighdeán”. They spoke and wrote their canúint correctly only to be told it was not correct while at the same time Irish books written in their “incorrect canúint” were being studied on their courses. Talk about a contradiction. The advantages of being a native speaker were being subsumed into the rigours of the unspoken caighdeán. So when students encountered native Irish speakers with Gaeilge ón dúchas they could not comprehend. In effect the three canúint have been ghettoised, marginalised and kept in reservations like the American Indians occasionally to receive the sop of the cúpla focal from officialdom to salve the national conscience. The deficiencies in the Education system regarding Gaeilge are just a manifestation of the general public malaise where the learning of Irish is concerned. Now how many Irish “speakers” could express the sentiments of what I have written as Gaeilge without having to think. You see our language in the Galltacht became Latinised and sterilised by the Gramadach brigade hence the caitheamh anuas on the genuine native speaker.
I’ll take your word on that John Ward. I often heard it said from the likes of paypal and other multi-national companies that recruiting staff with foreign language skills was one if their biggest challenge of doing business in Ireland
@ Michael S, excuse my ignorance here but how different is spoken Gaeilge in the different gaeltacht regions and the curriculum Gaeilge we learn in school?
Why is it acceptable to tar all Irish teachers with the same brush ? I went to college and did a BA like all the other subject teachers, I went and did an MA, which most teachers wouldn’t have, and I trained on the same teacher training course with all the other subject teachers……yet despite that I MUST be the problem – I MUST – despite having gone through all the same training as everyone else – just be shite at my job. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US. i rub after school programs to help with Irish homework, I also have a lunch time club for 6th years to practice their spoken Irish so they feel a little more confident going in to the leaving cert – but you’re right I am totally inept at my job.
Sorry for the rant but it really annoys me that this is still given as an acceptable reason for the failing of Irish in the education system. The reasons people are ‘coming out after 14 years without a word’ is two fold.
1 – the curriculum at junior level assumes a level of language proficiency that students do not possess when they come into 1st year. This means trying to teach things outside the curriculum to help them better understand the curriculum, this takes up time leaving less time for the delivering the actual curriculum. The fact the course is two hard disengages kids, it doesnt matter how many ways I make language a game or make it fun, the system is setting them up to fail which makes kids dislike the subject.
2 – this is where the second reason comes in, public opinion. You only need to look at these comments to see an older generation that has an extreme hatred of all things gaeilge. This generation are more than likely parents to school going children, if your children hear you talking about ‘sure its useless anyway’ ‘we should just scrap the language all together’ ‘;sure you’ll never need it you’d be better off learning chinese’ they are going to pick up on these opinions and adopt them to a subject that they already dont like. You have just given them a reason not to try, they know you wont be mad at them if they do bad because ‘it’s useless anyway’, so they dont bother. The biggest problem I have encountered in 3 years teaching is capable students not bothering,and when you ask why they don’t want to learn you get the reply ‘well my mam/dad told me it was no use anyway’.
It’s a vicious circle that will never end until the department listen to teachers and change the curriculum to something more in line with the modern languages, and until parents stop speaking negatively about the subject to their kids. If you keep telling them there is no point, they will start believing it and they will end up passing the same opinions on to their kids and it starts all over again.
Sorry for the long reply
clare, I think your issue is that you are looking for offence when there wasn’t on… Mick stated clearly that the problem was the dept and the *majority* of teachers, not all. maths has the same problem (you’ll never need most of that outside of school), but it has started to overcome it by getting engaging teachers with a passion for maths. Irish does not have this… not one of my kids teachers, from primary to secondary, have had a passion for teaching Irish as anything other than teaching it as one of a number of subjects that they were not interested in… not that they were bad teachers (some were), but they were not the right people to teach Irish. Sort that out, and you will get kids who are willing to speak Irish outside of school and let it grow. otherwise it will die on life support, as it is doing now.
@ Mickmc – what a most ignorant and stupid comment.
That’s a long reply alright, so with your level of training you still have to do all those extra grinds outside class. As for us parents we keep our gobs shut as we encourage our kids through the same mismatch we went through, you think we don’t know a Latin based system is being used to teach a euroaisian based language. We bloody well do but we still do it. One third of homework time is spent on this one subject while other subjects like calculus are stumbled over. The ability to speak irish is placed above understanding of the stem subjects, we’re a better educated population now and we know what skills our kids will need in this world. The sooner my kids get through this antiquated system with its odd hiring practices the better, don’t blame us for your failings.
@little jam –
I started this after school programs because parents complained they were not able to help there kids with their homework, my school also offers a maths club as well for students who struggle with their math. Also they are not grinds, I am teaching a common level classes of 30 students meaning I do not have the time to give individuals who may be struggling a little the extra help they deserve as I have 29 other people to look after, this optional after school club means I can give them little extra help they need without ignoring the needs of all the other students.
I am not saying I am perfect at my job, nobody is – it’s why I spend 20+ hours of my evenings a year doing CPD, what I was trying to point out is we are not the sole blame for this problem, we are doing our best and working within a curriculum that doesn’t work for our kids. If there is a broken system we need to fix the system not place the blame on those trying to work within it.
As for the ‘latin structure to teach a eurasian based language’ comment, I am uncertain what you actually mean by that – and would be very curious to know. I speak 5 languages to various degrees of proficiency – Welsh, Russian, Irish, Mandarin, and Scots Gaeilic. Every tutor I have ever had has used the same and similar approaches to teaching language, the skills for language remain the same regardless of its origin. The problem with Irish is it is not taught as a language, it is taught the way English is taught in school. Poetry, stories etc are not included on the curriculum of say French or Spanish, these are taught solely as foreign languages which is a model I think would be better suited to the Irish curriculum.
I’m not blaming parents at all, I am just saying that this is a multi faceted problem that people simplify to – all teachers are bad at their job. We all have a responsibility to change things, if the amount of parents who complain on the journal about Irish put pressure on the DES we might actually see the change we all want to see. I have written countless letters over the years trying to have the curriculum overhauled, if we all stop blaming each other and start working together we might actually achieve something. I don’t want you to ‘keep your gob shut’ as you put it – talk to your teachers get involved, find out what way your Irish teacher is approaching language in the classroom, make suggestions for ways you think are better – WE NEED YOU ! I wish parents would come to me and talk to me about their feelings, it gives me an opportunity to talk to you and help us reach a common ground – we both want the same thing – for your child to do the best that they can do.
I do find it interesting that my students with the highest language proficiency are those who are not Irish, this could be because they are already bilingual and learning a new language is easier if you have already learned the skills needed to acquire a new language, but I do think that public attitude plays a huge role in this.
I don’t know where the ‘odd hiring practices’ comes in in this argument, interviews for teaching positions are rigorous with 2, sometimes, 3 rounds of panel interviews.
Its very difficult for students to learn and retain any language if they dont use it every day outside of school. Its the same with French and German. Most of us managed to make it through the oral exam in the Leaving but how many of us have retained it.
Gus we can do both!
Clare. I haven’t got time to read your full rant. I’m not on 3 months holidays but I assume it’s the usual get the violin out rubbish. I can only go on my experience where in alot of cases the students had more knowledge of the language than the teacher. I’m sure you are not like though.
@mickmc
It’s a shame, I was just trying to provide an insider perspective on the system, which like yours is based solely on my experience of the system.
It’s great to know the majority of students you have come across all have university level Irish, I mean considering competition to get onto teacher training course is so intense these days that unless you have a 1.1 or a pretty high 2.1 in your BA you wont get on – these kids must be linguistic geniuses, and by your own logic the leaving cert must not be challenging enough for them.
There was no violin rubbish at all actually just an honest contribution to the debate around Irish in schools – but obviously I am a teacher so all my comment could ever amount to is ‘moan moan moan my job is hard’.
Also on a side note – I’m not on 3 months holiday either, I only have a 12 hour rolling contract in my school, so I work a second as a waitress to make ends meet. I work full time summer and Christmas.
Bit like one of my former Irish teacher. Someone described him once on rate my teacher as part time teacher (full pay I’ll add) full time farmer. The same fellow use to need a dictionary at least 10 times every class. There no way he had a 1.1 or a 2.1. He remind you of Dougle from father ted
You don’t learn a language by studying the grammar. You learn it through living it and speaking it. Grammar should be left until secondary’s school.
yeah it’s learning grammar that’s the problem…hahahaha. Turn all primary schools into gaelscoils and the problem would be solved, but I’d say that would put the fear of god into many primary teachers even though they’re meant to be fluent.
Radio na Life is a good Irish language radio station for anyone interested in improving their Irish. It is non-commercial – so it does not have ads.
The music is good too – if you like unusual, quirky stuff. Only available in Dublin but you can probably access it online too.
What’s the frequency?
106.4
raidionalife can be listened to online on your laptop or on your mobile via the tunein app!!!
What sort of Irish language music do they Play?
Heavy dubstep as Gaeilge.
Imríonn siad gach rud / they play everything: house, shoe gaze, disco, indie, reggae, metal, techno, folk etc. etc.
So an irish radio station based onthe popularity of english language music… whoop dee doo.
@dmn – what makes you assume the lyrics of the songs are in English? Have you ever listened to the station? They play music from all around the world; the lyrics are in all different languages – English and Irish predominantly, but also French, Spanish etc. I don’t understand why you insist on knocking an initiative which is trying to present Irish in a modern context. Have you got a problem with that? Or is cynicism just your default mode?
I’m sure the percentage that speak it with any degree of fluency or regularity is in the single figures…the lower end of the single figures. Its not a great return for forcing us to learn it for 13 years in school.
With the influx of so many new cultures and languages into Irish society, now more than ever is the time to hang onto our national identity!
Sure; on principle change and “differentness” should be feared and resisted, rather than embraced. Anyway, anything that promotes national pride and patriotism has to be good, if history is anything to go by.
Jim Brady, having a grá for your own culture, the language, the music, the wonderful character of the Irish people, does not represent a resistance to new cultures here in Ireland! In fact, I know several people who are ‘new’ to Ireland who would love to learn the cúpla focal! Loving your own country and culture does not represent a hatred of everyone else’s!
Q the self loathing paddy saying the figures are wrong and its a dead language , let it die etc.
I haven’t an ounce of Irish but sent our two kids to an Irish school. Best decision. They’ll be the first family members to be fluent in many generations. I’m learning as well.
Q the hyper-sensitive “I’m more Irish than you, I speak the native tongue” brigade.
Is Maithili liom Gailge agus is maith liom tharraingt mo liathroidi freisin.
Lets be honest. You would be better off learning to speak Klingon than Irish. It’s of no use to anyone and is only being kept alive by a load of fanatics. If it’s not being used then there is a good reason but some people just don’t want to believe it.
I’m certainly no fanatic, just an Irishman who loves having an Irish identity. Without our own identity what are we ? Our identity is based on music, culture, poetry, writing and our language. Should we say no to poetry because we only have a small number of great living poets ? Should we forget our music and songs because traditions are changing ? Where do you draw the line ? We are what we are, Irish people from a Celtic race, why in the name of God can’t we just be proud of who we are and stop knocking who we are ourselves?
Well said Stephen. The answer to your question is the subject of much debate but my personal view is it is a post colonial cultural inferiority complex related thing.
Despite the haters here peddling the same old tired arguments, this study comes on the back of a trend of improving census related figures for the no. if speakers and a study showing a preference amongst consumers for businesses utilising the language.
On a more localised anecdotal level, I am having difficulty getting my kids into the local Gaeilscoil due to demand, I use the cúpla focal in everyday life and get a positive response as Gaeilge go minic.
Depends upon what you mean when you say “no use”. Put it like this the Premiership is of no use or benefit to you and me yet we make it useful by showing an interest in it, we can have a healthy debate on who might win and who might be relegated, who might be purchased, transferred or dropped. If the vital match is on TV we make time to view it. We traipse about wreaking Manchester United jerseys or whatever. Of course without having a clue what is going on in the League of Ireland. So how do you put “use” or value on a language. If it is an identifier of nationality then it has value and usefulness. If “Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam” means anything to you then we should be defined as English or Hiberno-English or West British by nationality, definitely not Irish. If you can speak as Gaeilge what I have written without having to think about it then by all means consider yourself Irish.
I managed a Naíonra (an Irish language preschool). One of the reasons why I got the job was because I speak Irish. Naíonraí and Gaelscoileanna provide jobs for lots of teachers, classroom assistants and special needs assistants. Numbers attending some of these schools increase every year allowing for more people to be employed. I’d like to think for some parents the reason they send their children is because of the language but I know it’s not the sole reason. I haven’t come across any fanatics so far, apart from this one kid who was mad about dinosaurs!! Being able to speak any language is brilliant, even Klingon! I think the focus should not just be on Irish but introducing lots of languages from pre-school up, which could be done through the medium of Irish or English.
As you said, one of the reasons you got the job was because you speak the language. This was the criteria brought in by the fanatical Irish politicians after the war of independence. They thought they could eradicate everything English out of our society. It didn’t happen then and it’s not going to anytime soon. If having Irish in the public and civil service wasn’t a prerogative then how many people do you think would even attempt to do it in school? If you want to learn the language, go ahead but don’t expect everyone else to be happy with it foisted on them in schools.
I needed Irish because I was teaching it to the children. The Naíonra is community childcare so nothing to do with public and civil service. I wouldn’t expect anyone to be happy learning any subject that wasn’t for them. I wasn’t a big fan of religious studies, but hey I had to do it. Perhaps reform is needed for the whole education system to ensure children have an opportunity to learn in a way that works for them.
I recently begun relearning the language, while it is difficult and challenging it is far better to turn off the TV for an hour or so and actually use your brain.
I found an excellent site http://www.duolingo.com for this purpose. Give it a try.
Is feidir libh labhair gaeilge !
GRMA Prionsias. Is foghlamóir mé fresin.
Despite all the bright sparks preaching that we’d be better off learning Mandarin, German, Japanese etc. and that they don’t have ‘a word of Irish’ after being ‘forced to learn’ it etc srl etc srl…. I would be very interested to know what language has the most adult learners in the country – i.e. a free and mature reflection of language preferences. I strongly suspect that ár teanga dúchais has more adult learners in this country than all the aforementioned combined. That is purely based on my own personal observations but I would be interested to see statistics released.
There are great Buntús Cainte lessons (1 to 50) on a brilliant free learning website called Memrise – and with excellent audio too. http://www.memrise.com/home/ An app version is availiable, and you can also download the lessons if you want to use them offline. Give it a try and learn our beautiful language at your own pace.
Is breá liom Duolingo!!! / I love Duolingo!!!
Asking people if they are proficient in Irish is a useless question because everyone has a different notion of what proficiency means. They might think they are proficient but are in fact not. Most people like the idea of speaking Irish but it does not extend beyond the cúpla focal. The “Is mór liom an corn seo a ghlacadh” sort of thing followed by a speech in English. This is very common in official speeches made by politicians etc on big occasions. We treat the language as an inferior thing and swoon with delirium when a foreign politician or head of state uses the cúpla focal for example the “wow!!” Uttered when Queen Elizabeth 11 spoke a sentence in Irish or when Obama said “Is féidir linn!”.
The best genuine speech I heard as Gaeilge was when Galway won an All Ireland hurling title in the 1980s I think. The winning Captain gave a stirring speech entirely as Gaeilge. Everyone knew the sentiments he expressed and the natural unapologetic way the speech was delivered.
Today there are people who have Irish and would wish to speak it. The problem is they cannot initiate the conversation because there is no visible way of knowing whether the other person is willing to speak it. If a visible badge or ring was introduced it might be an incentive. I do not mean a graduated level of fáinnes because this would signify elitism and éirí in áirde which basically reduced Irish for most people to the level of Latin because people would not speak for fear of gramadach purists .
Tá náire an domhain orm nach bhfuil aon meas ag na daoine faoi ár dteanga dúachasach.
Ag an am seo , nuair a tá na míllte gcultúir eile ag teacht isteach gach aon lá , caithfimid ár dteanga a choimeád beo!
Té go dtí an nGaillimh chun èisteacht leis na daoine ag caint go líofa … sin è rud iontach.
Beidh brón orainn I gcúpla bliain nuair a gcuid pháistí ag caint I teanga “Aifric, no teanga ait-eorpach” sa bhaile chun choimeád isteach leis na Daoine atá ag túirlingt isteach sa tír seo gach aon lá!
Caithfidh sibh a bheith bróidúil as do teanga agus do gcultúir dúachasach. Na leag è !
Ps… journal.ie – you can keep your gammon agus “cur é san ait nach bheith an ghrian ag spalpadh”! .. ;-)
Aontaím leat. Roinnt des na daltaí is fearr at foghlaim Gaeilge ná na ndaoine a tháinig ón Eoraip agus an Afraic. Toisc go bhfuil dá teanga nó níos mó acu níl aon bac aigne iontu i leith foghlaim teanga nua agus ghlacann siad an teanga go nádúrtha. Foghlaimaíonn siad an oiread Ghaeilge i gceann sê mhí is a d’fhoghlaimíonn an ghnáth dalta sa Ghalltacht i gceann blian nó dhó.
Gan dabht. Foghlamaíonn na daoine sin cúpla teanga nuair a bíonn said ag fás anuas.
Agus beidh cinnte agat nach bhfuil an dearcadh ceanna sna aigne na daoine sin faoi a teangacha duachasach féin.
Tá a fhois aige go bhuil sé an-tabhachtach , grá a bheith don teanga!
Tá meon olc ag a lán daoine sa tír seo. Tá said ró tugtha chun teanga eile a aithint agus ár chuid Gaeilge a bhrú amach.
I don’t believe 41% of the population can speak Irish. I’ve never met them and they don’t live near me.
You can say anything in a census and there is no evidence to support the claim.
I take issue with being told Irish is my culture. I grew up speaking English, as did my friends and neighbours.
English is our language, not Irish.
If we banned the speaking of English tomorrow it would be interesting to see how long before the country crashes to a halt.
I would give it 2 hours.
Great to learn Irish if it makes you feel good but let’s be honest.
It’s useless once you leave these shores and next to useless even within this country.
“I take issue with being told Irish is my culture. I grew up speaking English, as did my friends and neighbours.”
So do I, I get fed up of being told “that that’s what makes us truly Irish blah blah blah”. No, I’ll decide that for myself, thank you very much.
So what makes you Irish??
Because of course we have been a complete economic success story since we switched over to speaking English in the middle of the nineteenth century….over 150 years of unblemished success.
We definitely have done much better than those stupid countries that still speak their own stupid provincial language, like the Danes, the Dutch, the Norwegians, Swedes and Finns.
the only thing that makes people irish, Micheal is that if you are born and raised there. but that can be applied for all countries
57% of people in this country can speak Irish??? That’s propaganda of North Korea proportions. I doubt it is even near 5.7 %
I don’t know if it’s even that high but 30 of the 154 dail member are teachers so at least 19% of the them should be able to speak it.
19% of the population are not teachers, secondary teachers unless the actually teach it don’t need to speak it, and a fare portion of primary teachers are far from fluent.
Yeah, because it’s the Irish language and its speakers which have been colonising parts of the world and enforcing their propaganda and hegemonic cultural imperialism onto other cultures for hundreds of years….
CHRISHT! !
I would have gotten a lot more out of taking years of Polish lessons, it’s a language I can use abroad, it’s a language I can use in the workplace, and it’s a language I can use in shops, and also with Polish friends…
I cannot say any of the above would apply with the Irish/Gaelic language..
Taking Gaelic Irish classes should be made a choice rather than being mandatory. We need to concentrate on European and Chinese lessons in order to make students more employable once they leave the school system.
Is there a ban on you learning Polish now?
The fact that it is not needed, yet forced upon us is what has killed it. The lack of need but forced learning has made us from a young age harbour some level of hatred towards the language. Make it optional.
It would also be interesting to find out how many people can sing our national anthem? If you are like me, know one or two little bits and hum the rest. I don’t think it’s even thought in schools anymore.
Many people think the first line of the anthem is ‘Sinne Fianna Fáil’ when that is actually the first line if the chorus.
Actually only the chorus is sung. There are at least six verses. The verses have a slightly different melody to the chorus. The Presidential salute melody is made up of the first two and last two phrases of the chorus melody.
Only the chorus for matches and the like but some people like to song the whole thing.
*sing
Drop compulsory Irish it does no favours to students or the language. Possibly leave it compulsory to JC but focus on conversational Irish. It is a farce students learn off formulaic answers to literature and poetry questions when they can’t hold a basic conversation. Have a look at the approach to Welsh in Wales. Not compulsory, those who teach and chose it have a real love of the language. Huge numbers speaking it in West Wales and even in Cardiff and Swansea you will hear people conversing in Welsh on the streets. In Ireland many grow to hate Irish based on their school experience and don’t return to it in later years. Don’t get me wrong I want it to see the language thrive. I really believe they need and additional Léann Dúchais course for the poetry/literature/heritage side of it. It is an endightment of the system that after 14 years of learning the language there are student who literally could not write a paragraph or hold a basic conversation. Madness.
Welsh is compulsory in Wales and has been since 1999, the reason why there are large welsh speaking communities in Wales is they didn’t undergo mass language shift/population decline in 19th century. If anything lot of Welsh areas grew in size due to activities such as Mining, that and the non-conformist Protestant chapels preached in Welsh.
Not for A level its not only to GCSE, which was the way I felt they should approach Irish to junior cert. After that students will either want to keep it on our you are flogging a dead horse.
Sure, but personally I don’t think any subjects should be compulsory for leaving cert. The fact is the LEaving cert needs to be abolished and replaced with a more modern system, perhaps akin to what they do in Netherlands or Finland.
Another barstool “expert” in language planning and best teaching practice
The language would quickly be relegated to the bottom of the pile in favour of the hegemonic languages if it were optional
you, and many on here, obviously have no clue about how to ensure the survival of a minority language, so please stop pontificating as though you do!
@Conor Power
Firstly, the success of the Welsh language has nothing to do with the fact that it is optional after GCSE.
I also think that there are some people (admittedly a minority) who develop a more positive attitude towards Irish after 15.
I was one of them. I would have dropped Irish after the JC if I could have, mostly because I was very weak at it. I got lucky and got a good teacher for the LC – became much better at speaking Irish, developed a passion for it, and now it is the language I will raise my children through.
Granted, that is the exception rather than the rule….but people always talk about “choice” when it comes to the Irish language…but really it was having to study it to LC that really enabled me to have a choice about speaking it or not.
As a person in the throes of re discovering our native tongue it amuses me no end to read mundane same old commentary from those who hate not just Irish but anything distinctly and unique to this land, GAA, Irish music, dancing etc. I am heartened by surveys suggesting more people want to maintain Irish. Access to different medians hopefully will help those who would like to rediscover Irish or those who never learnt Irish in school.
Maybe those who seek a cultural fix in Britain ie the EPL brigade might one day awaken from their self induced slumber and discover their true identity.
Well Uibh, no one is stopping you from listening to Irish music and doing your Irish dancing while wearing a gaa jersey. You just enjoy yourself, people are free to learn and enjoy these things. Just because someone doesn’t like the things you like doesn’t mean they want their “cultural fix” in another country.
Uibh Fhaili
Sorry but you lost me in the 1st line.
It’s not our native tongue, that’s English and has been for 150 yrs.
Irish is in the past as is the Irish native dress of goat hide or whatever they wore 500 yrs ago.
The fact that you must write your post in English to reach people is proof enough.
Society evolves. If people want to learn Irish great but let’s not preach to them by telling them it’s culture and they should love everything Irish.
I like lots of things Irish and there are lots of things I don’t like.
I will not be lectured to in Irish or English.
@ tom
Doesn’t bother me in the slightest if you immerse in Irish culture or not. That said, Irish is our native tongue, spoken as a primary language or not, while it is given equal status as English in our constitution.
I am targeting the West Brit haters of all things cultural in this land among the establishment as well their cheerleaders promoting their agenda. It might surprise you but there are many who are not ashamed of their native language and thus not ashamed of where they come from.
I wouldn’t dream of lecturing you so you can get off your high horse.
So do you consider yourself English or Irish? An Éireannach tú nó Sasanach?
@ NT
Where in my post does it suggest anyone was stopping me from doing what i want to do?
Exactly, no one is stopping you from doing your own thing, so what’s the problem?
Micheal, who was that to?
@ NT
It’s a problem when those with influence, who legislate and are driven by an anti Irish language agenda, while also pandering to their electorate.
@ NT
Are you one of those self loathing Irish people who despises all things cultural, or anything remotely linked to Ireland’s heritage, you know the Brit soap opera , English soccer fraternity, who think culture equates to picking the EPL team of the week ?
So what would you propose?
No absolutely not. I’m proud of being Irish. Just because I’m not into gaa or Irish dancing doesn’t make me a self loather or less Irish than you, I just don’t find those things interesting.
@ NT
”No absolutely not”…………..Fine then, my comments and views are not directed at you.
I consider myself human. If you want an answer I’m Irish as I hold an Irish passport. I’m not into wrapping myself in a flag.
I don’t despise anything cultural. I like things or I don’t. Nationality doesn’t have anything to do with it.
@tom
Is that comment to me? Any chance identifying who you are posting too?…..”I don’t despise anything cultural”
If that’s the case and like i said to another poster, my comments and views on this subject are not directed at you then, rather the self loathing plastic paddy…..you know the GAA hater, the EPL circus worshipper, the one who wishes they was born on the other side of the Irish sea. The West Brit cabal who hanker after their lost crown.
Foreigners can’t understand why we don’t speak it. If you tell them some Irish phrases they’re like ‘why don’t you speak your own language?!’
My brother was/is a fluent Irish speaker. Fainne and everything. He had to do the cear teastes ( no clue how to spell it) before he could teach or lecture.Even though he was lecturing in engineering. Despite growing up with this and being heavily involved in conra I still hated learning Irish. I don’t blame my teachers but rather the way they were forced to teach it. It dry and academic. I couldn’t afford to go to Irish college so couldn’t do the full immersion that’s really needed to learn a language. It wasnt a pleasant language to learn. You were afraid of getting stuff wrong. It wasnt like learning English grammar. We thought in English we imagined in English.. Learning the mechanics wasn’t so hard or boring. We didn’t think in Irish we learned Irish. It was always fraught with having to translate first then learn grammar. Another step for a young child. An older child could have dealt with that better from a cognitive and memory standpoint. I always though I was no good at languages as a result. I really didn’t even try at French in secondary. I just scraped along. Now though I.am learning German to degree level and I am powering through it. This gave me the confidence to go back to Irish. Only on duolingo but it’s how I started out on German so I like and respond well to its methods. I’m enjoying Irish now. At my own pace. I may even move on to French when I at a high enough level with German and Irish. Not bad for someone who though they couldn’t learn another language.
Where you write “we thought in English we learned in English” I think is the key. I don’t know Irish at all and the only language I took was two years of Spanish in secondary school. It was boring the first year and half the second year, but I noticed in the second half I started to think in Spanish and then things flowed.
Of course now there has been no need to continue for many years and it has faded again but I found during a recent trip to Spain I would pick up a few things said. It was like watching some activity through picket fence.
Good post. I wish I lived closer to the Irish Heritage Center I would attempt to learn Irish but there are some trying to keep the Gaelic alive in the States.
Today at 9:17 AM
Tá náire an domhain orm nach bhfuil aon meas ag na daoine faoi ár dteanga dúachasach.
Ag an am seo , nuair a tá na míllte gcultúir eile ag teacht isteach gach aon lá , caithfimid ár dteanga a choimeád beo!
Té go dtí an nGaillimh chun èisteacht leis na daoine ag caint go líofa … sin è rud iontach.
Beidh brón orainn I gcúpla bliain nuair a gcuid pháistí ag caint I teanga “Aifric, no teanga ait-eorpach” sa bhaile chun choimeád isteach leis na Daoine atá ag túirlingt isteach sa tír seo gach aon lá!
Caithfidh sibh a bheith bróidúil as do theanga agus do gcultúir dúachasach. Na leag è !
How’s that been working out for you lately then Rock? 7-16.
B’fhéidir gur b’fhearr dúinn glacadh leis go bhfuil Gaeilge ag gach éinne, go dtí go ndeirtear a mhalairt? In ionad Gaeilgeoirí a bheith ag siúl timpeall faitíoch go gcuifidís isteach ar éinne le beagáinín Gaeilge, cén fáth nach labhraímid Gaeilge le gach duine – sna siopaí, ar an mbus i ngach aon áit.
Má tá sé soiléir nach bhfuil Gaeilge ag duine – is féidir athrú go Béarla ansin ach ar a laghad tá scagadh dearfach á dhéanamh seachas an scagadh diúltach atá á dhéanamh againn fé láthair.
More primary and secondary schools, taught through the medium of Irish, should be created. In addition Irish should be removed from some schools and replaced with more STEM subjects. So in urban areas mostly, parents could have the choice of sending their children to a Gael school, total English medium school with extra STEM or to the most common type, which is Irish taught for 45mins a day. You would have a greater number of young people leaving secondary school with a greater fluency.
The answer is quite easy. …teach pupils to speak Irish, not just grammar and boring old Irish literature, but actually how to speak. …..and guess what. …..people will start to speak. ……
What if they don’t want to speak it Gavin?
make it optional, so the students who dont like irish or are just bad at it can put their talents on other things they are interested in.
Today at 9:17 AM
Tá náire an domhain orm nach bhfuil aon meas ag na daoine faoi ár dteanga dúachasach.
Ag an am seo , nuair a tá na míllte gcultúir eile ag teacht isteach gach aon lá , caithfimid ár dteanga a choimeád beo!
Té go dtí an nGaillimh chun èisteacht leis na daoine ag caint go líofa … sin è rud iontach.
Beidh brón orainn I gcúpla bliain nuair a gcuid pháistí ag caint I teanga “Aifric, no teanga ait-eorpach” sa bhaile chun choimeád isteach leis na Daoine atá ag túirlingt isteach sa tír seo gach aon lá!
Caithfidh sibh a bheith bróidúil as do teanga agus do gcultúir dúachasach. Na leag è !
I will only learn it if Sile Seoige goes out on a date with me, otherwise no dice.
Sheila Joyce might is you spelt her Irish first name correctly. … Síle… The auld fada.
Windows phone doesn’t do fadas
Better get an iPhone so…… Síle might be pleased!!,,!
Irish teachers are the worst teachers of all time.every Irish person was forced to learn Irish and all they can remember is how to ask to go to the toilet.only because it was the only excuse to get out of the class
The key thing in 2011 census is the frequency of speaking. So daily and weekly speakers are probably most representative of the language community. I use Irish fairly often online but I ticked the “Less often” tab when it comes to frequency, though that does ignore the passive exposure through daily watching TG4 or tuning into RnaG.
As for the school system, you’re average Galltacht student in a english speaking school will get what about 1,200 hours exposure to language over course of their education, best practise states you need 5,000 hours of langauge contact for fluency. So it’s no wonder the school system (with it’s emphasis on learning for exam) isn’t gonna be of any benefit. Students who attend Gaelscoil and than a Gaelcholáiste in comparison get 10,000 hours of language contact. (PE in Irish, Science in Irish, history in Irish — it all adds up to contact hours)
What people seem to be missing on 41% is that’s it not about people claiming to be fluent, the question in census was can you speak irish. Majority of these 41% have a best “school Irish”.
There is no way 41% of Irish speak the language. If you discount foreign nationals that would be a half of Irish speaking Gaeilge. I went to college here and remember people in the final year claiming they speak Spanish, yet to maintain the most basic conversation was an impossible task for them. That doesn’t mean speaking the language. Same with Irish language, maybe two were able to actually say something, that makes about 15%.
Waste of time. Once you finish school you’ll never need it again unless you become a teacher or a cop.
you don’t even need it for the police anymore that’s how useless the language is
Dead language get rid of it and stop driving kids mad trying to learn something they will never use . No one in the world could converse with some one gibbering away in this stupid language
Just be thankful the incitement to Hatred act doesn’t cover your bigotry.
Irish is a Zombie language that should be banned from compulsory forced learning in schools. Nobody on planet Earth needs to learn Irish. Taxpayers with no interest in the archaic dead languages should not have to foot the bill for those who do.
Can I get a tax credit for having to fund services for Bigots?
The bigots programmed to hate all things English who force a Zombie language down everyone else’s throats? Do you want the forms in Irish or in the language you find it more useful to speak here?
I listen to TG Lurgans music all the time. Their version is nearly always better than the original, mainly because it’s in Irish. As it’s music so it’s easy to sing the lyrics after a while.
“Two interesting findings were that Irish is more likely to be spoken by Catholics in Northern Ireland and by younger people in the Republic of Ireland”. Ok – it’s notable that more young people speak Irish – I suppose that’s due to the increase in Irish medium teaching. But is it interesting that Irish is more likely to be spoken by Catholics in NI? It’s not even on the curriculum in most non-Catholic schools. For non-Catholics, for now, it’s a bit of a evening class hobby.
Sure, well there you do have likes of Linda Ervince running alot of classes in East Belfast. She’s doing great work that’s for sure. I recall watching a clip online where they were showing 3 former UVF prisoners learning Irish in East Belfast Mission.
We do. That’s what I meant by evening classes. Irish is definitely becoming more mainstream in NI, through the BBC and people like Linda freeing up people’s attitude towards it. I don’t know of any non-Catholic schools offering Irish as a GCSE or A level yet though unless they’re formally integrated.
Irish – can’t write software code in Irish. Nice hobby!
Languages like species need to evolve and adapt to their environment or else go the way of the DoDo.
The most efficient languages win out, hence English used for all computer software code. Irish needs a good overhaul …. start by scrapping that daft gender stuff if its to be taken seriously.
Luro , way to go! (Language for the United Regions of EurOpe)
Life is too short to learn 27 other European languages.
Can you write software in English? Last time I looked computers couldn’t understand English either! Or is you’re point that HLL often use words that sorta resemble English? Well I’d hardly regard the following as equivalent to Shakespeare.
void complete(struct completion *x)
{
unsigned long flags;
spin_lock_irqsave(&x->wait.lock, flags);
x->done++;
__wake_up_common(&x->wait, TASK_NORMAL, 1, 0, NULL);
spin_unlock_irqrestore(&x->wait.lock, flags);
}
Or this gem from same file
asm(“” : “+rm” (rq->age_stamp));
rq->age_stamp += period;
rq->rt_avg /= 2;
—
Anyone using an Android phone by way is dependent on those two code snippets.
As for you’re argument about gender, no doubt German should also drop the idea of having seperate genders in it’s grammar as well.
@PaulOD …”no doubt German should also drop the idea of having separate genders in it’s grammar as well.” …… now you got it! LURO gets rid of all that daft stuff.
Above software code from Linux operating system used in all Android based systems written by Linus Torvalds who is Finnish. Dont see any Finnish words. Operators are just standard C operators http://www.tutorialspoint.com/cprogramming/c_operators.htm
e.g += means add AND assignment operator, It adds right operand to the left operand and assign the result to left operand.
Despite the Irish language Nazi’s wasting millions forcing a Zombie language down the throats of everyone in Ireland the vast majority refuse to speak it. That’s a fact. It seems to come alive when a body with a clipboard arrives to do a survey. It’s probably a case of people being afraid Patsy or Mary might lose the oul job up in Dublin translating government documents into a Irish. Or maybe it’s they only talk to people who make millions storing all the useless mounds of paper written in Irish.
Nimh/Bile.
Why do ye not have a pol, ye can only say yes if ye fluently speak it, have a ” redundant” and a no then you will know just how important Irish is!!
Tá
+1
I only know the bit before the end where everyone shouts “C’mon the lillies”
What shade is that green? Need to paint a barn door with it lol.
has anyone listened to how the adverts are spoken on radio…its so irritating and it’s not how we seek at all. garda.. has become gurda !!! why are we speaking with this terrible twang
Since Irish isn’t what most of us speak daily, people just aren’t bothered about our native language as adults. Also a lot of teachers aren’t able to teach Irish well at all especially in primary school
Just let it die
Worth watching on this debate https://youtu.be/OvlQXPNwrqo
The first 5 or 6 years in school children should be thought to speak the language and concentrate on that. Irish should be optional after junior cert. It must not be inflicted on people like it was with us Peig & 16th Century poetry along with Irish speaking Nazis controlling the system,does not spread a love of the language.
have your say