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Updated 10.40am
THE GOVERNMENT HAS ruled out an attempt by rebel Fine Gael TDs and senators to form a second Dáil technical group.
The group of six TDs and two senators are attempting to form the new grouping in a bid to gain speaking rights in the Dáil as they are currently not entitled to any during Leaders’ Questions and debates on legislation.
Some of the six TDs – Lucinda Creighton, Billy Timmins, Brian Walsh, Terence Flanagan, Peter Mathews, Denis Naughten – and the two senators – Paul Bradford and Fidelma Healy-Eames – are due to meet in Leinster House today to discuss attempts to gain speaking rights and other matters.
However the government chief whip Paul Kehoe has told TheJournal.ie this morning that the coalition has “no plans” to amend standing orders in order to allow for the formation of a second technical group in addition to the current one made up of smaller parties and independents.
Wicklow TD Billy Timmins said this morning that his understanding was that it was not within the remit of government to decide if standing orders are changed.
“It’s actually the Dáil itself that does that. Maybe this is one of the problems we have with the institution that it’s becoming more and more centralised, governments are making decisions without regard to the views of members,” he said.
Earlier, Naughten said that the meeting today was aimed primarily at securing speaking rights through a motion that is being put down by Timmins.
“We’re basically going to be talking about what mechanisms we can put in place to garner speaking rights in the house,” the Roscommon-South Leitrim TD said.
He acknowledged that this would be difficult given the current rules but said rebels TDs and senators would also be examining “how we can maximise the current rules [to create] the capacity to raise issues”.
He continued: “It is a challenge and it does make things far more difficult, there are other mechanisms that are available to us as well and we’ll explore them as well.”
He said he hoped that the government, having committed to political reform, would be able to facilitate his and fellow rebels’ request but Kehoe appears to have ruled this out for now.
Naughten lost the Fine Gael whip two years ago over a vote on the future of services at Roscommon Hospital.
Creighton, Timmins, Walsh, Flanagan and Mathews lost the whip over their vote against the Protection of Life during Pregnancy Bill as did senators Healy-Eames and Bradford earlier in the summer.
Naughten added that the prospect of forming a political party at this time is remote saying: “I don’t see it as a realistic option at the moment.” Timmins added is “certainly not on my agenda”.
First published 9.45am
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People, not parties,, are elected to Dáil Éireann.
Depriving TDs speaking time because of internal party matters is an affront to democracy.
Kevin, all TD’s have the right to speak, but there is an order placed upon that right so that the larger parties are afforded the opportunity first, representative of their greater respresentative clout.
This system is required for the efficient and orderly debate of particular issues.
If you want to priorotise certain TD’s based on electoral clout then give the TD with the most votes priority. Not the party with most members.
If they can’t speak get the system changed or get rid of them with no pension or perks
The purpose of the meeting today is to secure speaking rights for the affected group, made up of former FGs.
I may be reading it wrong but it seems to me these TDs had speaking rights as FG members which they lost when they lost the Party whip.
They now want to obtain speaking rights as in their own right.
Democracy in action preventing some from speaking in the Dail because they disagreed about party policy. So much for Enda’s claim to be reforming how government works.
FG are really trying to punish & humiliate those ‘rebel’ TD’s
very petty & vindictive
Irish democracy is being revealed for the joke that it is.
It would appear that Enda and Hulk Hogan have succeeded in bringing us the transparent government they promised.
Who could disagree with that comment.
Methinks Kehoe has activated the YFGbots.
This system has been in place long before the FG/Lab government came to power and is represented across the chambers of nearly all other western democracies.
Show me a democracy that does not operate in this way.
This shure we de worst in the world rubbish is physically sickening. Grow a pair of balls ffs and instead of imagining that the world is laughing at you, or that Ireland is the only country with problems, get off your butts and do something.
doesnt mean it works
This government just keeps digging a deeper political grave for itself with every negative announcement they make.
They have their speaking rights at mass on Sundays
Not that I want to listen to a word from idiot Creighton or fool Timmons …but ain’t it slightly off the wall that elected TDs aren’t allowed to speak…..democracy haw are you !
“the coalition has no plans to amend Dáil standing orders”.
So where is the open and accountable Government we were promised?
Serves them right
Democratically elected Tds not allowed to speak in the national parliament.
That’s a bad thing, see?
Democracy = a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives. Leaves me to ask, what do you call the present system of government?
Ireland operates a Whipocracy …. NOT a Democracy.
Whipped TDs vote for vested interests not the interests of those who voted for them.
Local Property Tax … case in point.
Revenue voted power by Whipped TDs to get the Anglo Tax from your pay, pension or bank account.
Hostile action by Government against the electorate … not in Syria …. in Ireland.
——————————————-
FB/LocalPropertyTax
I found this out today and it made my blood boil!!! Eammon Gilmore is on €152,000 a year, plus €48,000 ‘expenses’ and he has FIVE advisers on a combined total of €670,000 !! Just him alone is costing nearly 1million. Ffs like.
his ‘expenses’ are almost twice my salary
He also has unvouched allowances
for example €5000 per year dry cleaning…. !!!!
This is the Taoiseach whose political reform instincts we’re trusting if we abolish the Seanad; he *might* reform the Dáil, but all indications are that he won’t.
yer wan from the Vincent Browne show has nice legs !
Who is yer wan….???
Vincent?
The wan in the background talking to petey forer banker Matthews ; she’s wearing high heels and she does be on the telly so she does .
The new Labour Party watch this space .
There is nothing to stop these TDs joining the existing technical group in the Dail or forming another technical group with someone like Mattie McGrath. Under the rules of the Dail they only need a minimum of 7 TDs for form such a group in order to gain more speaking rights.
The reason this isn’t happening is nothing to do with standing orders, but because it would effect the income “entitlements” of those TDs. This is while Healy Rae & McGrath chose not to be in the first technical group. The earn more money by being out of it.
There are 166 TDs in the Dail. If they each were allowed 5 mins a day speaking time then that would be 13 hours and 50 minutes each day excluding votes, debate and questions. Doesn’t seem workable.
you are assuming that they all turn up to the Dail every day
have your say