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THE GOVERNMENT IS giving “very serious consideration” to taking any action over the UK government’s controversial legislation aimed at dealing with The Troubles.
Legacy was among the topics discussed by representatives of the two governments at the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference in Dublin today.
Earlier this year, the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act became law despite widespread opposition from political parties, victims’ organisations, and the Irish government.
It includes a limited form of immunity from prosecution for Troubles-related offences for those who co-operate with the new Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery (ICRIR).
It will also halt future civil cases and legacy inquests.
Legal challenges have been taken to it at Belfast High Court.
During discussions between the governments today, the Irish government reiterated its serious concerns in relation to the Act’s compatibility with the European Convention on Human Rights.
The UK government set out the next steps in the implementation of the legislation by the Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery.
It also raised its serious concerns that an interstate case brought by Ireland would undermine the commission’s opportunity to deliver better outcomes for victims before it is even fully established.
The governments also discussed a number of individual cases, including the 1998 Omagh bomb, the murder of solicitor Pat Finucane and the Dublin/Monaghan bombing.
Speaking to media after the event, Tánaiste Micheál Martin said the approach to legacy is an issue where there are “significant differences” between his government and the UK government.
He said it was a “matter of serious and sincere regret that we’ve reached this point”.
He said the government will give the act “very serious consideration” and has received advice from the Attorney General.
Martin described himself as “victims-led” on legacy, and said he has met with a lot of victims groups.
“Victims of state violence, victims of the Provisional IRA, victims of loyalist violence and (I am) very struck by their continued absence of closure,” he said.
“They’ve all been very much opposed to the legislation that has come through.
“We’re also conscious of impacts on British-Irish relationship. We’ve worked hard to strengthen that and I think this is the third meeting of the British Irish Intergovernmental Conference in one year. That’s the first time this has happened in 17 years.
“This is evidence that both governments are doing everything possible to enhance the East West dimension of the agreements, we’re conscious of that.
“So we will weigh all of that up. As a government, we’ll come together to specifically discuss this issue, the Irish government will, and then we make a decision.”
Northern Ireland Secretary Chris Heaton-Harris said in the same press conference: “We did discuss legacy, and we believe that our Legacy Act is (European Court of Human Rights) complaint and the commission will provide information and answers to the families who require it.”
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Who cares ? They should be made to work also – do something worthwhile
@D: you will if the turn into monsters and slaughter your family , What happens to a dog when it’s chained up and abused
@Robert Halvey: it seems to some degree that John and D are already living in the hell they describe
@Robert Halvey: Don’t let them back out.
@2q6v4IEp: Don’t do the crime, if you can’t do the time!
@D: I would advocate for death penalty to all drug lords, serial criminals and murderers.that will free some space for corrupted politicians to come
@Dominic Leleu: luckily your advocating means nothing
@D: that’s called slavery. Would you also like to rip out their fingernails so you’re extra sure they feel bad?
@Niall Lappin: yes unfortunately
@Niall Lappin: why luckily, you prefer violent recidivist being spared ?? are you one of them ?
@Conor McK: it can also be called “earning your keep”, it’s the tax payer that is footing the bill for their upkeep so some kind of conbtribution should be forthcoming from the guest.
@D: Nine hundred of the prisoners are foreigners.
Why are we spending €90k pa in keeping them in prison when they should br deported
@Conor McK: slavery! they still get their dole money and their partners get the prisoners wife allowance, they get 3 meals a day, roof over their head, skip the que in hospital, free gym and education services,days out etc this is why is cost over 150k a year to keep a person in jail
If you want to reduce the prison population…. make prison very undesirable.. no tv’s, game consoles or comfy mattresses…. Then put them to work… proper work..
@Chris Foley: I’d much rather increase our prison population. For example the man who tried to kidnap a kid put him in prison where he belongs and not just give him a suspended sentence with an order to leave the country. In fact put Judge Nolan in prison for the crimes he’s committed against our justice system
@John Doe: well multi account troll. I consider letting a man who kidnapped a child walk free from court a crime. Do you not agree?. Or do you consider a kidnapper roaming out streets to be a good thing?
@John Doe: he is clearly biased towards child abusers. There is no doubt of this.
@John Doe:Coward? 4 days I’ve been waiting on you tell me what crimes kneecap has committed. Tell us John why do you hate kids? You don’t mind convicted kidnappers walking the streets of Ireland and you don’t mind the murdering of tens of thousands of Palestinian kids. Did a kid once take your lollipop off you and make you cry?
@Chris Foley: I would advocate for death penalty to all drug lords, serial criminals and murderers.that will free some space for corrupted politicians to come
@John Doe: aiding and abetting child abusers, by letting them roam free. Would you consider that a crime?
@Ger Whelan: Ireland is better off deporting that degenerate rather than using taxpayers’ money to feed and house him.
@Ger Whelan: another one of his accounts, William Jennings one day and John Doe the next. Pay no attention to him.
@John Doe: aiding and abetting known criminals
@John Doe: He committed treason, he is an enemy of the people of the state. He has allowed an absolute clear and present danger roam free, to self deport??? And not return… for at least 10 years… the chap will go to UK tear up his passport and arrive in a batch of cultural enrichments destined for a small town near you ipas centre.
@Dominic Leleu: can’t argue with that…
@Ger Whelan: Judge Nolan is an utter disgrace!
Are they trans? 3 days in a row an article on trans people. Such a small group but so much attention
@Furious George – The Wasp: “I identify as me/free! Now let me out ye bigots!”
@Furious George – The Wasp: Keeps everyone on a ‘vital’ edge, upsets the core of the traditional narrative, beautiful bait
@Furious George – The Wasp: it’s a campaign – Irish Times, Indo too at it all of a sudden – Jenny Maguire (a man) and Una Mullally for example taking their lead from the Guardian. Same old gender affirmation healthcare and being hunted down and killed narrativr for selfish gain. Transvestites and drag acts have a place when consent is given. Getting your mickey out in the Ladies never does. David McSavage Pride Pub Quiz cancelled – FFS.
@Furious George – The Wasp: That’s right, trans people are such a small part of the population. We should just leave them be in peace.
@Conor McK: as long as they stay in their space and don’t encroach on mine…..ie…a biological male entering a women’s bathroom…
@Conor McK: We would if they stopped looking for attention all the time
A modern supermax style prison would help the overcrowding and contraband issues. Nothing we don’t know and have but on the long finger for over 20 years. Finish off Thornton Hall and introduce better controls for visitors and dare I say staff smuggling items in.
@Mark R: El Salvador style. Be a great deterrent.
@Mark R: tasty and tempting food.
@Mark R: All mod cons. For some would it be better than living in society?
@jason dawson: Without any chance of social or moral rehabilitation.
@Athena: as I said, a deterrent. Dont do the crime..
The homeless sleeping on the streets could do with those mattresses
@Ciaran Enright: when starting off in life my brother and I bought a divan single bed. One of us slept on the base and the other on the mattress. It was fine.
Can we deport the visitors who are in jail its a no brainer they’ve lost the right to be here then, plus reoffending here wil be zero percent
@Darran Macken: Some chance of that. ‘Convicted r@pists in an Irish prison are applying for asylum to avoid deportation at the end of their sentences. In at least two cases, criminals walked free after their release despite efforts to deport them. They told gardai that they would be applying for asylum in Ireland.’
@Darran Macken: then other EU states will do the same, sending back more than 2k Irish criminals who are now mostly in prisons in UK, Spain or Holland. So basically we get rid off foreign prisoners and get back ours so no change in number, even worse.
@Chris: irish prisoners have a legal right in Spain and same for spainish criminals here do, the difference you fail to see like a few others is its not spainish criminals stabbings women out jogging or abusing passengers In their taxis or taking children while leaving house party’s, but some minds will never see what’s infront of them no matter what.
The minister for justice needs to have this burden taken off his shoulders. What they need to do here is get somebody who could sort this issue, a prison tsar if you will. Get the best person for the job which would require a salary of close to say half a million for example. Does anybody in the government have a friend in need? Good heavens Smithers this isn’t rocket science, it’s brain surgery….
In a bold new move to tackle prison overcrowding without building anything, the Irish government has unveiled its “Mattress-on-the-Floor” initiative, rebranding the crisis as “horizontal rehabilitation”.
Justice Minister Jim O’Callaghan hailed the plan as a “progressive spatial solution”, pointing out that prisoners are now “closer to the earth, and therefore closer to their roots”.
Despite €50 million in funding announcements, not a single sod has been turned on any new prison buildings. A spokesperson confirmed most of the money has so far gone into report-writing and PowerPoint animations showing where beds could go if they existed.
Meanwhile, prison officers are dealing with rising contraband, overcrowding, and back injuries from tripping over mattresses in what’s been dubbed “extreme bunk-bed poverty”.
Officials are said to be considering mattress-sharing rotas and offering floor loyalty schemes. One leaked proposal even suggests naming rights for cell floors. Coming soon: “The Glenisk Floor – sleep clean, sleep dairy.”
@Rafa C: ha brilliant.
@Rafa C: the best today,lol
I know 10 Brazilians sharing a 3 bedroom house,they must be a very close family.
@John finn: It’s called a train.
@John finn: I know 37 Irish sharing a caravan, what’s your point?
The fact prisons didn’t have bunk beds initially…
Nevermind the lack of building new prisons to an ever growing population… gross incompetence is what it is. So thanks to that we got violent thugs walking the streets with many convictions having suspended sentencings because prisons are full.
@Kieran Menon: they do have bunk beds
It’s bad enough they bring in millions of people to the country but they don’t even build new prisons or hospitals! Only in Ireland.
we
No one forced them there! They can blame society, but ultimately it’s their own weak will or brains!
Prisons should be privatised!!
@Ollie Fitzpatrick: Most of them probably didn’t pay their TV licence. Judge Nolan lets the real criminals off with suspended sentences
@Ger Whelan: Agree with you there Ger. Therein lies another problem that should be sorted, Also any non-national convicted and sentenced should be deported immediately!!!
@Ollie Fitzpatrick: and have a situation like what’s happening at the moment in the British prison system?? Don’t think so.
This is an absolute joke. And answers all your questions about lenient sentences. Unsafe and unworkable conditions for prison staff and unsafe for the public also with 600 prisoners out on TR. As with a lot of government portfolios . When it comes to justice. They have been asleep at the wheel despite all the warnings, increased crime and increased population. They have done nothing about prison space and resources and nothing to increase Garda numbers either but will tell you they are the party that is hard on crime.
@Sean Parker: I wouldn’t be too worried about prison staff, well paid. They actually turn a blind eye to the drugs going in! As one officer told me “if they didn’t have their drugs , they’d go mad, at least when their spaced we’re able to control them “! Anything for a quiet life. As for the prisoners? Phuck them, they should have no luxuries! Hard labor a deterrent for the phuckers
Like the WhatsApp going around during Covid, “put the prisoners in the nursing homes and the old people in the prisons, the old people would get looked after then, doctor on-call 24hr, hospital admission straight away, 3 hot meals a day. Luxurious for them”.
Let the prisoners fade away in the nursing homes, proper order!!
@den: I wasn’t concerned over prisoners. And personally I wouldn’t generalize over the entirety of staff of a difficult job based on my own anecdotal account of a conversation had with one person.
@den: 3500ish officers and you believe the 1 “officer”?? you spoke to who says the prisoners can do/say/smoke/inject what they like.? A very well informed source you have there.
There’s was a guy running a prison farm in Texas, I believe who made his inmates sleep in tents, they had to wear pink overalls as prison issue clothing. No tv or radio was allowed. They also had to work. They were permitted one book, the bible and had to attend Sunday church services. The prison had zero recidivism.
@AnthonyK: Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Phoenix, Arizona. Tent City. A quick Google will show you it. Closed down now. Sheriff Joe himself got in a spot of bother with corruption charges and being lenient on s#x offenders.
@Kevin Kelly: 100 per cent. The notorious ” Tent City”. He even bragged it was a concentration camp. He was pardoned by Trump for all his criminal activity.. Quelle Suprise ! Can’t belive someone is holding this up as an example of how to run a prison .. it sure as siht didn’t have zero recidivism either.. it made no difference to the 60 per cent recidivism rate in the prison. Why people just make siht up is beyond me.
I wonder what would alleviate this problem? There’s got to be a solution to overcrowding in the prison system. Maybe they could get one of those over priced taxpayer funded consultation firms to ‘work closely on a remedy to this baffling ongoing situation’. If they start now we might, fingers crossed’ get an answer within the next decade.
@SOCOMJON: yes badly needed some consult reports mentioning, prisons are overcrowded at a few million cost…..
Good enough they should be just on bread and water
Never mind funding, a super prison badly needed!
@peter willekens: and if they do decide on building “something” it would most likely end up being not anywhere adequate in numbers accommodated.
And why is this an issue?
Is prison not for punishment?
They should all be on mattresses, food rations and hard labour, might be a deterrent for committing future crimes.
Maybe take the mattress away
At least they are not homeless
Cant build wont build, the most annoying thing in Ireland is that when and if we do eventually start to build infrastructure it wont be to the benefit of the majority of working people.
Countries who prioritise rehabilitation over punishment have lower rates of reoffenders. Norway, Finland, Denmark or Morocco focus on education, rehabilitation and reintegration. Countries who take a punitive approach on the other hand have a significant higher rate of reoffenders. El Salvador for example has very high rates of reoffenders, as the overcrowded prisons foster gang membership. After being released these gang members face severe challenges to reintegrate as they find no jobs and are shunned by society. Prisons in the US or South Africa also tend to turn small-time crooks into hardened criminals with SA’s reoffending rate at approx. 90%. This is all well known and documented. Yet people are still calling for Gulags, quarry-work and chain gangs it seems.
@Dereck: I’m not convinced on Morocco. Check the crime statistics for The Netherlands and place of origin of offenders.
@Dereck: You’re way too zoomed out for this lot. We’re headed for privatisation and will need the amount offenders to multiply, luckily our societal structure is perfectly set to increase that number. It costs 100k a year to lock someone up and Irish people are falling over each other trying to pay it.
@Athena: On Morocco please check Harlaman Today, “Half of all offenders return to prison witin a year of their release” 2023.
Regarding the Netherlands: While it’s true that NL has higher rates of reoffenders than other countries who focus on rehabilitation and reintegration. According to a study by the University of Leiden this is due to lack of access to rehab services, especially for short term sentences and discontinued support services upon release. However, overall prison population in NL is down for the last 20 years. Origin of offenders is irrelevant for this discussion.
@Thesaltyurchin: True. The cost-benefit calculation for rehab v. punitive imprisonment systems seems to be beyond most people here.
@Dereck: BS
Countries that get rid off the real criminals dont have to deal with them again
@H Woo: Lmao :)… The Ryanair model
@H Woo: and watch the safety for everyone who lives/works in the said private prison also go down. Unfortunately, in prisons you get what you pay for in terms of safety.
Sounds like a job for the house tzar. Quick, light the bonfires or the bat signal. S.O.S. house tzar, we need you.
Waw very healthy style ,same as any Japanese sleeping on the floor,minimalism is very healthy for vertebrae, neck,back pain,disck plunge….lucky
About 900 of the prisoners are foreign.
Just deport them.
Their stay here should be a privilege that is automatically withdrawn for exceeding a criminal threshold. Just like losing public service jobs for involvement in crime.
Why are they there?
Here’s a good idea. Build another prison.
Bring in chain gangs…so much could be done as recompence and for the good of the society they damaged.
@Ben dover: not sure it would work but I’d love to see it get a trial run
All prisons should be closed and refurbished into low cost social housing apartment blocks. All current inmates should be granted freedom under a new “Second Chance” legislation — where we as a people look at what can be, unburdened by what has been.
@qffaffaf affrafrfraf: You mean the ‘Nolan Act’
Great news.
The problem can be solved if they let out the non violent offenders and get them to report to the Garda station every day.
@Frank Foley: Why reward law breakers. A crime is a crime… Signing on is not much of a punishment.
They’re to have a mattress. Prisoners don’t deserve luxury, they’re in prison, not a holiday camp.
Prison should be a place no-one wants to go back to.
T0ugh sh!t, who cares. They should be doing hard labour.
As a taxpayer, I’ve no issue with this.
Built that new Prison they have been talking about for 20 years at Thrornhall.
The amount of self-righteous, sneering comments here are sickening. It’s a totally inhumane and filthy way to confine prisoners and contributes to the spread of disease and mental instability. Prison officers have to try and keep control of a powder-keg. Think about their position.
@H Woo: I’d love to see your specific hard data on that.
Boo Hoo, well, they could be at home sleeping in their own beds if they didn’t commit a crime worthy of being sent to prison. Also, they wouldn’t be costing the tax payer €80k+ each per year to accomodate. Moral of the story: If you don’t like a hotel, don’t go there, it’s you’re choice ! Make the right choice, for all our benefits, including their own.
There is anecdotal evidence of some people getting sent to prison deliberately for the winter months….a bit of work / earn your keep would free up those mattresses.
How many people have a piece of cardboard to sleep on, on a street or in a doorway? In prison there is food, medical care, dental care. And the criminals sleeping on a mattress is the problem??
@Enda: Easter is the whingefest season – last week teachers, this week gardai and prison staff.
The media lop it up with free drink and dinners for their reports.
Bring back chain gangs, get them working for the taxpayer.
Pity about them. You commit a crime, you do the time. Simple.
Bed of nails would be what most of them deserve.
fffg Keeping the voters distracted while country gets milked by rich and poor greeting busy installing garden home living SHEDS
Replace the word person with prisoner….
It’s like referring to victims as person.
Hire prisons in other countries if they are free.
Put more in there
Who’s fault is that ????
God help em
Good
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