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John Crown: 'It's quite plausible that the HSE would try to minimise the appearance of waiting lists'

The HSE has denied that staff are being encouraged to manipulate waiting lists.

INDEPENDENT SENATOR AND Oncologist Professor John Crown said he believes it’s plausible that waiting lists are being rigged.

Crown added that because of the “unprecedented long waiting lists in Ireland”, he wouldn’t be surprised if the HSE was tempted to use “various subterfuges” to try and make things appear better.

Speaking on RTÉ Morning Ireland, he said:

I’m afraid to me it’s quite plausible that the HSE would use various tactics in an attempt to minimise the cosmetic appearance of waiting lists.

“One year ago it was brought to my attention that an internal standard operating procedure in the HSE which was sent to people who were organising outpatient clinics certainly seemed to be putting in place a procedure which would have the effect of apparently minimising the duration of waiting lists by not putting people on waiting lists until such times as they has received a firm appointment date – even though the application from their GP for them to see a specialist… may have been received some months before.”

However, the Health Service Executive has said it has no knowledge of a “confidential internal memo” that urges employees to manipulate waiting lists to meet health service targets.

Speaking on RTÉ’s Morning Ireland, Dr Tony O’Connell, National Director of Acute Services, said it was “not HSE policy to encourage employees to massage waiting lists.

That’s certainly not anything that I condone. I’m not aware of any memo which suggests that.

“And it certainly would be against our policy of treating patients in order, as well as giving some priority to patients who have high acuity and high risk conditions such as cancer.”

O’Connell said the current waiting lists were an accurate reflection of how long people are waiting to be seen and treated – apart from a few hundred patients who were seen in private clinics last year and are now returning to the public list.

Read: ‘Serious allegations’ of rigged waiting lists to be pursued by Department of Health>

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32 Comments
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    Mute Niall Mullins
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    Oct 6th 2014, 12:08 PM

    If they spent half as much money on frontline staff and proper services as they do on paying obscene numbers of, completely unnecessary, managers to come up with schemes like this, then it wouldn’t be an issue to begin with.

    193
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    Mute Rory McGuirk
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    Oct 6th 2014, 4:10 PM

    Aye, and maybe if we all complain on the journal something will be done about it. We’re great at criticizing those in power yet we haven’t a single notion of how to change the country for the better .

    29
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    Mute Niall Mullins
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    Oct 6th 2014, 8:55 PM

    Speak for yourself Rory. I’ve joined the Irish Democratic Party and we’re doing all we can to change the face of politics in Ireland. Why don’t you have a look at our website http://www.IrishDemocraticParty.ie, check out our Facebook page or come along to our launch on Oct. 25th in Tullamore. You just might be surprised. Alone we can’t make a difference but together we stand strong.

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    Mute Ger Sweeney
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    Oct 7th 2014, 12:00 AM

    You can’t beat the system… That’s not defeatist is just a sad reality…. Big money and power will be protected by those who have either or both so new parties won’t make any difference… The whole thing is rotten to the core.

    4
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    Mute Charles J. Ahern
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    Oct 7th 2014, 12:09 AM

    Fluoride and EU withdrawal … no thanks.

    2
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    Mute RP McMurphy
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    Oct 6th 2014, 12:40 PM

    Massage the waiting lists, massage the unemployment nos., revise downwardly the need for carers, massage the IW set-up figures, massage the people on low income figures, massage the export figures(upwardly), massage the the message to the people on Budget day…..a country of civil servant masseuses!!

    73
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    Mute Tony Le Blanc
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    Oct 6th 2014, 1:12 PM

    Alas with no ‘happy ending’

    58
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    Mute Tony Tee
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    Oct 6th 2014, 12:04 PM

    Would be absolutely terrific if John would stop seeking media attention, soundbites, drop the Senator gig and concentrate on his patients….and I speak as someone who has experience dealing with the man, appointments at 9pm at night because he is in a RTE sudio or Gove buildings.

    73
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Oct 6th 2014, 12:11 PM

    Yes can’t have someone with knowledge highlighting these issues, best to say nothing and carry on.

    108
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    Mute Tony Tee
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    Oct 6th 2014, 12:17 PM

    Saying something is ‘quite plausible’ does not constitute knowledge Norman

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Oct 6th 2014, 12:22 PM

    John Crown got the gagging clause removed from Doctors contracts that the HSE wanted, so in my opinion he is justifying his position in the Seanad.

    102
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Oct 6th 2014, 12:25 PM

    Did you stop reading after you saw ‘quite plausible’?

    37
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    Mute Denito
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    Oct 6th 2014, 12:29 PM

    No doubt Prof Crowne is spending endless hours in his public clinics seeing new patients and making sure that he, at least, is doing his bit to keep the waiting lists down.

    57
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    Mute Tony Tee
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    Oct 6th 2014, 12:37 PM

    Could have sworn he was a Oncologist…so why is he commenting on abortion?? I’m afraid as someone the man has treated my opinion on the man my opinion, formed via personal experience, will not be swayed

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/senator-john-crown-defends-abortion-waiting-list-joke-28812406.html

    18
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Oct 6th 2014, 12:45 PM

    So he is not allowed comment on any medical matters outside of his own specialism?

    60
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    Mute Tony Tee
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    Oct 6th 2014, 1:06 PM

    Clearly youve never been hooked up to chemo treatment at 10pm at night because Dr Crowne has had media commitement elsewhere Norman. I have no problem with him making any comments he wants but as I and countelss other cancer patients know it impacts the treatment we receive and he is paid to give us. Do the day job first and they by all means be a Senator, media provider etc in your own time…..

    31
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Oct 6th 2014, 1:13 PM

    Your right I haven’t but have been involved with several people who have, and the presence of the oncologist who they are under is not necessary in every case.If you have an issue with John Crown why don’t you switch?genuine question.

    44
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    Mute Tony Tee
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    Oct 6th 2014, 1:17 PM

    I have switched – after not getting my treatment until after 10pm as I was scheduled to meet Dr Crowne first…in that particular instance he had been up from stupid o’clock doing a interview on Newstalks morning show and mixed up my charts – told me I was stage 4 (which means I have no hope) instead of stage 2. If you or I told our employers we wouldn’t be able to do our jobs until 10pm because we had another job elsewhere or had media commitments we would be dealt with very differently I imagine.

    42
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Oct 6th 2014, 1:30 PM

    So you’ve switched what’s your issue?
    Why not make a complaint if you feel it is justified to the relevant authorities. Instead of slagging the man on an Internet forum.

    47
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    Mute Tony Tee
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    Oct 6th 2014, 5:24 PM

    Probably because I am perfectly entitled to voice my opinion and I feel like doing so Norman….if you dont like what I am saying there is no need for you to comment either.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Oct 6th 2014, 6:26 PM

    So voice your complaint of Mr Crown in the correct manner instead of the comfort of hiding behind a computer screen.Allow him answer what you have accused him of.

    25
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    Mute Carmel M H (Carm)
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    Oct 6th 2014, 8:57 PM

    Don’t you dare criticize Prof Crown like that. He is one of the few honest people we have in LH. He always said he was going to keep his day job and he is doing so by working himself into the ground. I know the man and I know how hard he works. Remember he takes no salary from LH. He said he would only be a senator for one term so he will work regular hours as a Dr then again. If he had decided to leave his consultants job the waiting lists would be longer and the service poorer. I think we owe this man a great deal of gratitude. If you don’t like his hours then find another consultant.

    35
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    Mute Carmel M H (Carm)
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    Oct 6th 2014, 9:02 PM

    Good on you Norman. You are right. Doubt Prof Crown was the first to ever mix up a chart. Also on mistakes Tony has spelt his surname wrong throughout his rant.

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    Mute Roy Madden
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    Oct 7th 2014, 12:25 AM

    Tony – why haven’t reported him to the IMC yet?
    Or are you just spoofing?

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    Mute Emilio
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    Oct 6th 2014, 3:49 PM

    I know for a fact that Tallaght ENT department had two waiting lists. You’d get on the first list straight away after GP referal. They’d send you a letter stating something like: We have received the referral letter, please don’t bother us for the foreseeable future, because we don’t give a damn about you (the wording was different, but the meaning was confirmed after I rang them).

    Then about 2 years later they will send you a letter with an appointment a few weeks ahead. At that point they’d add you to the official waiting list. Average waiting time of patients ‘a few weeks’. Works every time.

    Chances that after 2 years you are either dead or your condition has remitted or you have chosen to see a doctor privately? About 100%.

    Fantastic. I’m so impressed with the efficiency of this system I almost peed myself when I found out. So simple. So well executed. I am going to try this at work some day.

    43
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    Mute Sheik Yerbouti
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    Oct 6th 2014, 1:09 PM

    Patient Goes ON Long list- Patient OFF long list to private sector- Patient back ON list– but now they are on a smaller list, that is until the other patients moved to private come back to join them on the public list.

    Maybe Tony o Brien could help them by getting them to complete a report for €20,000
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/hse-adviser-got-20000-for-health-crisis-report-30634326.html

    Although when you get such top-ups,whats €20,000 between friends
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/reilly-hse-chief-obrien-can-keep-160k-wage-topup-29817838.html

    28
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    Mute Niall Mullins
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    Oct 6th 2014, 11:36 PM

    I like you Sheik!

    8
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    Mute sid
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    Oct 6th 2014, 1:13 PM

    This has been the case for years. Maybe not have a staff room meeting about how to massage figures but deffo make it part of the system that puts people off lists for any deviance from the official waiting time. I had a situation like that. Eight cancellations over a year period.hopeless service in my own personal experience

    27
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    Mute McGuckin Annette
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    Oct 6th 2014, 5:27 PM

    How can the national director of acute services say with all certainty that current waiting lists are an accurate reflection of how long people are waiting to be seen and treated, if a) he’s no knowledge of the memo and b) the investigation in to the allegations of rigging hasn’t even commenced yet?

    10
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    Mute Gus Sheridan
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    Oct 7th 2014, 12:47 PM

    Just thought how refreshing that all these comments were mentioned on RTE …daydreaming…

    2
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    Mute Deirdre Uí Bhrógáin
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    Oct 7th 2014, 12:24 PM

    i have been told twice in two different hospitals that I would be on a waiting list only when a date could be allocated.

    2
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