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UNIONISTS WANTED SINN Féin to be excluded from talks being carried out during a review of the Good Friday Agreement in 2004 after the attempted abduction of Bobby Tohill.
Tohill was a member of the Irish Republican Army (IRA) and later the Irish National Liberation Army (INLA).
He was abducted from a bar in Belfast city centre on 20 February 2004 and driven away in a van which was then intercepted by police. He was badly beaten in the incident.
At the time, it was widely suspected that the men who abducted him were IRA members.
Four men were charged but, after being granted bail, went on the run. They were all caught years later and sent to jail, receiving sentences of up to eight years.
Tohill never testified against the men and asked a judge for leniency, saying they were his friends. Earlier this year, Tohill confirmed he likely only had a few months to live due to his deteriorating health.
In the days and weeks after his attempted abduction – long before the suspects were jailed – the incident was a major talking point in political meetings.
Previously confidential records, which were released this month as part of the State Papers, show that unionists were deeply unhappy with the situation.
On 24 February 2004, Irish and British officials met with several senior members of the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) including Ian Paisley Sr, Ian Paisley Jr, Peter Robinson, Nigel Dodds and Jeffrey Donaldson.
At this 40-minute meeting, Paisley Sr said the DUP were greatly concerned by the events four days prior and wanted to know what both governments planned to do about it.
Then-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland Paul Murphy confirmed that the PSNI’s Chief Constable Hugh Orde believed the incident was an IRA operation.
In May 2003, the Irish and British governments published the Joint Declaration which outlined steps needed to ensure the Good Friday Agreement would lead to lasting peace in the region.
Paragraph 13 states: “We need to see an immediate, full and permanent cessation of all paramilitary activity, including military attacks, training, targeting, intelligence gathering, acquisition or development of arms or weapons, other preparations for terrorist campaigns, punishment beatings and attacks and involvement in riots.”
Unionists viewed the attempted abduction of Tohill as a serious breach of this paragraph.
The DUP wanted Sinn Féin excluded from ongoing talks related to a review of the Good Friday Agreement. However, the record of the meeting notes that the review “was not a formal talks process” so “there was no means of exclusion”.
Both governments had referred the matter to the Independent Monitoring Commission (IMC), which was tasked with reporting on the activities of paramilitary groups in the North and operated from 2004 until 2011.
The internal document notes that the DUP delegation “was very dissatisfied with the Governments’ proposed course of action and the rest of the meeting was taken up with various DUP participants criticising the Governments”.
Murphy and Brian Cowen, then-Foreign Affairs Minister, defended their positions. The document continues:
Donaldson, Robinson, Dodds and Paisley Jr. were prominent in these sometimes animated exchanges.
“They argued that there was no role for the Independent Monitoring Commission in the current context. The Chief Constable had already clearly indicated what organisation was responsible.”
On the same day, 24 February, government officials also met with senior Sinn Féin members including Martin McGuinness.
A record of this meeting notes that McGuinness “began by saying he wished to object in the strongest possible terms at the way in which the PSNI handled the arrests on 20 February in Belfast and the subsequent comments of the Chief Constable over the weekend”.
The document adds that McGuinness “made no comment about IRA involvement” in the Tohill abduction.
He claimed the PSNI’s handling of the incident was “clearly part of a political agenda… to attack Sinn Féin”, adding that such “knee-jerk reactions” were very damaging to the party and its role in the peace process.
McGuinness is quoted as saying: “Announcing that the entire process is in a mess is not a good news story.”
He added that Sinn Féin had stated “its total and absolute commitment to exclusively democratic and peaceful means and its opposition to any use or threat of force on 21 October last, and had unequivocally restated its position many times since then”.
At a later meeting on 27 April 2004, Paisley Jr said the British and Irish governments had allowed “inclusivity to run amok” and “a window of opportunity would be lost if the Governments continued to play around by not confronting SF/IRA”.
“Paisley (Jr) added that inclusivity had failed; that was why the DUP was now in pole position within unionism. Inclusivity was preventing the process moving ahead without SF,” a document notes.
Murphy added that, in order to end paramilitarism, the governments needed to talk to all relevant parties.
Minister John O’Donoghue said the IMC report on the matter “was of immense importance”, adding that its “condemnatory tone had placed [Sinn Féin] under huge pressure in the South”.
According to the record of this meeting, Paisley Jr then “interjected to say that a great deal of the response to the IMC response was nauseating hypocrisy”. He is quoted as saying that people in the Republic were “not as sick of the paramilitaries as we are”.
O’Donoghue insisted there was now “an unprecedented widespread acknowledgement of the evil of the IRA and that the republican movement had come under enormous pressure”. He added that the criminal process would deal with those who allegedly were involved in the Tohill abduction.
Paisley Jr accused both governments of being “scared of the Provos”. He claimed that if loyalist paramilitaries had been involved in a similar incident, the governments “would have moved on without the DUP”.
His party “wanted to be part of the deal but the Governments could make that impossible if they insisted that SF must stay in, irrespective of what the republican movement did”, the file notes.
State Papers reference number: 2024/112/1
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Yet 20 years later the DUP still openly consult with loyalist paramilitaries, one senior member recently found to be in possession of British army weapons and ammunition.
@Eoin .h: When a border went up in the Irish Sea we didn’t see Loyalist terrorists taking up arms and killing people . Unionists showed their objection to this by not taking their seats in Stormont. When Brexit discussions was taking place there was a possibility of a border going up on the island . Republicans wearing balaclavas started to make threats of violence once again . They set off a bomb in NI as a threat to what will happen if there is a border on the island of Ireland.
@Jack Moss: Lol. What a load of nonsense. ‘Border in the Irish sea’. We’re talking about someone checking the contents of the odd lorry at a port and labels for some sausages. The DUP backed a hard hard Brexit precisely to try to erect border infrastructure on the island again despite the fact that the majority of people in NI voted against Brexit. And it all blew up in their faces. They are a horrible shower. Now both Paisleys are gone from their seats, SF are the largest party and hold the first minister position, Jeffrey Donaldson it turned out was up to all sorts and we here today what the queen thought of the orange order marches that were happening in her name. The DUP and loyalism is a complete joke at this stage.
@Jack Moss: so the UVF weren’t spraying ‘peace or protocol UVF’ all over Belfast? Simon Coveney didn’t have a bomb hoax when he went north, then had multiple threats? Unionists politicians didn’t stand in front of angry crowds for months and spout rhetoric like ‘nationalists take and unionists give, and we have nothing left to give’? Just so you know, a customs check isn’t a border, as the courts ruled. However, physical infrastructure on the partition line contravenes the good friday agreement.
@Eoin .h: The only people that wanted a border was the EU . It’s a EU border . The Uk would have free trade with anyone . The border was put up by the Irish state in 1923 when they added tariffs to all goods imported from the UK. Up went the border custom points so the 26 counties could make money . The British and unionists were against a border . They believed the 26 counties would eventually come back into the UK and any border would prevent that from happening. 90 odd yrs later the Irish state demands that there can’t be a border on the island that they insisted having in 1923 to make money for the new Irish state .
@Jack Moss: haha jack you got absolutely rinsed here you couldn’t refute one of Eoins points, he made you look like the deluded clown you are!
@Jack Moss: complete rubbish
@Jack Moss: are you on drugs
@Jack Moss: burn everything except the coal
@joe moody: Jack Moss, or Tommy Whelan, as he is also called, gets his brain handed back to him after every debate on here. He’s an ex British soldier that has been conditioned to think of Queen and Country. He thinks the British civilised the word with their empire. Rather than pillaging it under the banner of the butchers apron.
@Pat Corr: *world, not word.
@Pat Corr: 100%..They planted their silly flag in the soil of another countey after conquering them, exploit the people, enslave them, drain their resources and if they were lucky they would build a school or hospital and say they civilised the country.
@Jack Moss: Ah if things were only that simple. The customs post was to show clearly that the Free State was a separate country to the UK.
Tariffs were added by the UK and responded to by the Free State government.
UK wanting free trade, it had free trade and walked away from it.
In fairness Paisley shook hands with McGuinness and Nationalists and both acknowledged one another’s history’s, drew a line under it and moved forward. Coming from his pov you have to give huge credit for it.
There are plenty still today who redraw one sides history and refuse to move forward. FG always had top spot in that department, at least they’re open about that. The kinda shocker for me is the Republican FF, under Martin at it the whole time.
@Troll Hunter: absolutely. Paisley spent his entire life demonising Catholics or anything Irish yet managed to form a good relationship with Mcguinness and SF and acknowledged their dedication to peace. Puts into perspective the mentality of FFG. They had an easy run to the top then pulled the ladder behind them.
@Eoin .h: FFG only interested in whatever could be used to smear what they see as their biggest political opponents. They continually bring up things from before those monumental handshakes and the historic croke park handshakes. That absolutely disgusts me..
Like I know FFG will stall a United Ireland for all long as possible. They only care about keeping as much political power as possible. I expect that out of them.
They are continuously bringing up one side of NI history pre GFA, using the language and propaganda of the other side, using the same tactics to smear a political opponent, when almost all they bring up if covered in the GFA… and that truly offends me, nor will be forgiven.
@Troll Hunter: They drew a line under and moved forward to cushy jobs as MLAs. Both laughing at their electorate that they had instilled sectarian hatred that would see them elected. In the 50s and early 60s the two communities were coming together particularly the younger generation. The damage done by Paisley, McGuinness and Adams will take a long time to heal.
@Vincent Alexander: don’t forget the loyalist paramilitaries Vincent,and the British army, and the British secret service while you are at it
@Jb Walshe: It was mainly SF/PIRA followed by DUP/UVF that prevented peace being achieved prior to the GFA. Paisley, McGuinness and Adams also got too much media attention to spew their sectarian propaganda.
How is it wrong to want one’s Country to be free, independent and United.
How is it wrong for an abandoned people to want to rejoin their country.
Surely the thinking and questions should be based on how to achieve,factoring in all the pro’ and cons, rather than all the cons been the focus to not achieve it.
You have those who use things like costs to scare people off, while those same people support Billions to Ukrainians for example.
You also have those who will demonise all in NI as the same to scare people.
GFA is over 20 yrs old.
@Troll Hunter: We live in a democracy were the people decide the future of the country they live in not a bunch of terrorists that believe they have a right to take up arms and decide the countries future . Ireland is not a 32 county all Irish independent nation because of republican violence over the last 100 yrs or so . Do you think it would be ok for a bunch of lunatics to take up arms today and demand Ireland leaves the EU when the majority of Irish people are pro EU. No they be terrorists just like the men of 1916 were terrorists that attempted to remove Ireland from the UK when the majority of Irish people were pro British.
@Jack Moss: War is over. Obviously not in your head. You have serious issues.
GFA over 20 yrs ago. When there is a United Ireland, it will be based on the will and vote of the People of this Island alone.
People like you, who fought to keep NI British and the Catholics/Nationalist suppressed, no longer get to decide duck squat anymore.
@Jack Moss: I suppose it would be grand if Russia invaded England, partitioned a part of it to keep it yeah ?
@Troll Hunter: I didn’t fight to keep anything British myself and my comrades served in NI to make it a safer place and stop people from getting killed by terrorists. Never did I or my comrades ever go out onto the streets of NI to kill people . 21 bomb disposal officers were killed in NI . Many of them were killed in Nationalist areas dealing with IEDs that was left by loyalist terrorist organisations . Many more were left blind and seriously injured. Soldiers served in NI to suppress a terrorist insurgency and defend the rights of the people of NI to self determination by a democratic process .
@Troll Hunter: Both islands was invaded and colonised by the Normans in 1066 and 1169 . The Normans ruled Ireland to 1541. There was no 32 county Irish nation before 1169 . It was an island divided up into 5 provinces that was broken up into 150 kingdoms that was knocking the Sh.t. Out of each other . It wasn’t even likely that Ireland was to become one country because it never was one country before 1169 . Ireland only became a 32 county Irish nation in what is the UK today . Every country that exists in the world has a history that involves other countries. Fifty yrs after independence you voluntarily gave your sovereignty to s foreign power in Europe for financial gain . You didn’t even last 50 yrs as an independent sovereign nation .
@Jack Moss: Ffs Jack Catholics in NI did not have democracy until the GFA, the GFA was a result of the Catholic fight for freedom.
Believe it or not, I have huge respect for anyone who puts on a soldiers uniform in any country, especially if they believe it’s for the right reason.
Also believe it or not, I don’t hate you, nor British soldiers and not even the SAS. I do despise many things they have done, prob will never forgive some, but also totally accept reality and unfortunately very few good things happens in wars. It’s a nasty business that never should happen. But for most normal people once war is over they accept the peace and get on with it. Is the objective of war to win and have peace ?
@Jack Moss: Shouldn’t have put a border there in the first place then. Britain went on to use these tactics in their other former colonies when they saw it was all falling apart so that they could cut and run and leave the mess that they had left behind them.
@John Moore: They didn’t put up the border the new Irish state did in 1923 to make money . Read comment above .
@Jack Moss: you have a very sad revisionist version of history. You seem to enamored by the British, a country that had been one of the major contributors to slavery, to illegal occupation of countries across their so called British Empire.
@Jack Moss: you and your geographically challenged kind will eventually get the message that you can’t go into other countries terrorise, murder, enslave anymore.
@Jack Moss: if you actually believe that Jack, you really need help
@Jack Moss: south Antrim UDA are still active,still selling drugs,still terrorising their own community.
Loyalist paramilitaries did not decomission
@Jack Moss: you can feck right off ,you were a occupational force whose sole job was the surpression of the catholic community.
A shocking stain on your own history
@Troll Hunter: The unity project is valid, only if it is clearly progressed on the basis of full respect for both cultures, with no hangover of domination either way. The descendants of the plantations are here to stay, and need to be reassured that they and their kin can preserve their British status, if they so wish, and all that goes with that.
And that is not a huge problem, as it has been done ever since 2022, in the Free State/ Republic, and no one was obliged to swear an oath to abandon their British heritage.
So this fact just needs to be highlighted to those who need that reassurance. Plus the reality, that the combined economy actually needs the enlarged population to thrive for all who live here, regardless of creed or colour.
@damien leen: Was St Patrick not taken as a slave to Ireland?
@Jack Moss: wrong, wrong, the people of Ireland were Irish, under British rule, the people were upset because their lives were turned upside down, but when the British killed the leaders of 1916, the people felt guilty and angry with the British empire, it reminds them of the length a empire will go to stay in power, when they send general Maxwell the queens right hand man military, to kill the Irish leaders, he by the way has my family name, I done my research, the Irish are correct, the British empire about taking other people’s land alway has my friend,
@Jack Moss: move on from the past,on here spouting your nonsense regularly
@Jack Moss: I hope you are back in England now,they are very welcome to you !
@Jack Moss: The Gerrymandering involved in the shape of the 6 counties was political and financial. That is all they cared about.
They had lost the island with the executions and the Black and Tans killing whoever they pleased to.
But they kept the main industrial hub and made sure there was always a Loyalist majority!
@Vincent Alexander: are you being serious? You need serious help if that is where you need to stoop to to engage in a debate, pathetic.
We all know why the sun never set on the British Empire, even God couldn’t trust them in the dark
@Finbarr Cooper: Perfidious Albion.
Shur look we’ve all said things in the heat of the moment, we’re passionate people with big hearts
@qffaffaf affrafrfraf: nicely said.. merry Christmas
Tbh it’s difficult to imagine a united island.
@offside again: let’s start by agreeing there is an Ireland at least and we who live here get up and go to sleep each day in this place. After that we can see if we have anything else in common and anything we don’t understand or are ignoring about our neighbours view. After that we can question ourselves somewhat. Alternative to that we can take the Celtic and Rangers point of view and carry on.
@downburst1: more importantly, why does it have to be united ?
@offside again: It does if the majority north and south want it to be. It’s called democracy.
@offside again: only if you are a southerner
@offside again: no it not, I lived in Germany when it became united, it cost a lot of min tax payers money and both sides working towards a new state were eventually everyone will respect each other, with a fair vote, that’s Ireland of course more complicated due to the planting of ulster Scottish 16 century Scottish loyalty to the crown sent to Ireland to grow in number, anyway we get the point, work together for a new nation and everyone is happy
@sean weir: Not the way the GFA is written it is not!
SF has always believed they don’t have to play by the rules . It should have been the end of the GFA when three of their terrorists were caught in Columbia training FARC rebels . During Covid O Neill was telling people they couldn’t go to their relatives funerals then hundreds of republicans turn up for Bobby Storeys funeral. Even during the troubles they were crying about a shoot to kill policy but they had a shoot to kill policy . They claim to be soldiers fighting a war but the Brits were not allowed to shoot back at them . One rule for SF/IRA and another rule for everyone else .
@Jack Moss: Yeah, yeah., we know your views on everything Ira bad, sf bad, Irish vermin.. Brits are gods, they invented the world, slavery was good for economics .., Empires are the pinnacle of civilisation…. people should be greatful consider themselves privileged to be colonised by the Superior English..
@Jack Moss: You’re a worse bigot now, than Paisley was then, before he accepting both histories, shaking hands like a man and moving on with goals of truly moving on…
Think about that for a minute ..
@Jack Moss: You don’t get it do you? You should never have been or had reason to set foot on this island ever. The British army then took it upon themselves to gun down innocent unarmed people on the street who were merely protesting for equal rights such as the right to have a job, somewhere to live or maybe even a vote in their own country. That did wonders for the IRA now didn’t it?
@John Moore: Actually the Irish were the British army . The British army was formed up on both islands . There was 21 Irish infantry regiments in the British army . Many of them were older than English regiments. The Irish involvement in the BA goes all the way back to the early days of the armies history which is about 340 yrs old . The Irish were pro British and pro empire . They played a part in the creation of the empire and profited from the empire . Over the last one hundred yrs the Irish have rewritten their his history into a 800 yr victim story . Ireland is the only country in the world were the people that live there are not accountable for anything that happened their over the last 800 yrs .
@Jack Moss: Jack 10 mins of All Murray would debunk 99.999% of your junk.
Yes there was Irish in the British Army, there were Irish in many armies, even were on both sides of American Civil War, they were well used by all those other countries. And yes there was ‘Irish Regiment’ in the British Army, but none were controlled or ordered by an Irish Government under an Irish Flag.
Many Irish fought in WW1 and when they got back to Ireland they were disgusted how their country men were treated by the British, astonished how the British kept the events of the 1916 Rising from them and were almost broken from that betrayal. Almost all joined Collins and then fought for their own freedom.
@Jack Moss: again you can’t refute one point put to you, you just spew nonsense!
Every generation on the island had a revolution against your barbaric occupation no matter how much you delude yourselves about your horrendous colonial past we understand full well what the vast majority of people on this island fought and died for!
@Jack Moss: get a life will you…Irish people being spit on, treated as second class citizens by the British IN OUR COUNTRY…Britain made the IRA possible, history is full of freedom fighters to get countries like Britain the hell out of thier country and you can spin it whatever deluded way you want to but it is as simple as that.
@joe moody: Actually the Majorie of countries got their independence without violence. Australia , New Zealand, Canada , Jamaica, Sierra Leon, India , Pakistan, Qutar , Belize, South Africa and so on . 54 ex British colonies voluntarily join the commonwealth.
@joe moody: Actually the Irish fought for Britain for over 300 yrs . The Connaught Rangers , The Dublin Fusiliers , The Royal Irish Regiment, The Royal Munsters , The Royal Leinster , The Royal Irish rifles , The Inniskillens , The Ulster Rifles , The Royal Tyrone regiment, The Royal Irish militia. There was 21 Irish infantry regiments in the British army that served the UK for over 309 yrs . It must be hard for you to accept who really were in history .
@Jack Moss: holy god you seriously believe your own delusions! Have you ever asked yourself why countries would need to gain independence from Britain??
Would it be the fact you forcibly colonized and brutalized vast amounts the worlds population?? Please accept reality, your demonic empire was responsible for pillaging and murdering its way through history…
@Jack Moss: there has been a colonial loyalist presence in Ireland for centuries during your many plantations where you attempted to eradicate the Irish culture and ethnically cleanse the island, it’s no suprise there is a small percentage of west Brits on the island..
@Jack Moss: the lads were in columbia on holiday jack, everyone knows that
@joe moody: Actually it was the Scot’s that was responsible for the plantations of Ulster in 1609 . The Scots (Stuart’s) held the throne between 1603 and 1714 ruling over England and Ireland . There was 7 Scottish monarchs that ruled over Ireland and England . James the first was the first Stuart monarch . He was the son of Mary Queen of Scots and responsible for the plantations of Ulster in 1609 . The Scots also created the Union UK in 1707 when they merged the English and Scottish parliaments together to form the Union . The 32 counties was created between the 13th and 17th centuries. Wicklow been the last county in 1608 . The only time Ireland was an all island Irish nation was when it was part of what is the UK today .
@joe moody: It was soo horrible that 54 ex colonies voluntarily joined the commonwealth with the Queen as head . Today there is 56 countries in the commonwealth with another 4 countries waiting to join .
@Troll Hunter: Don’t forget the Brits also invented Concentration Camps!
@Jack Moss: More nonsense because you can’t actually refute anything put to you..
When referring to BRITAIN that means the British island, Scotland included why try and hide the fact the fat oligarchs and royals in London decided to carve up Ireland and treat it as their own personal farm!
@Jack Moss: those nation’s where so pillages and utterly dependent on Britain after centuries of colonization and oppression! You literally looted the world and raped the peoples resources it’s historical fact you can not change it, just spend ten minutes reading about the British made famines world wide or what you did to china with opium etc. endless barbarism that you simply can’t justify.
Makes you seem like a true demon.
@Jack Moss: the biggest terrorist is the British empire as history goes, we have to move on as people face facts
@Jack Moss: That was after South Africa and Ireland worked very hard to get the Empire closed and Britain no longer the head of the group!
The irony after Ian Paisley gave his blessing to the UVF to fight. Unionism are as guilty as anyone for the conflict in the north but deny this basic fact and people accept it.
Some bots about today folks.
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