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IRELAND HAS THE highest net migration in Europe.
Nobody leaves any country, including Kosovo and Lithuania, more than leaves Ireland. Our net migration in 2012 was around 35,000, but the numbers of indigenous Irish leaving are higher.
Without question, the hardest hit generation are those aged between 21 and 28. Over 30 per cent of Irish youths receive some form of income support.
But what happens without them? What is the impact on Ireland?
In Part Three, we look at it from the perspective of those who left.
‘It’s different’
Leaving is, for many people, a wrench. While some can’t wait to leave Ireland, most will miss at least some aspects of our rainy shores.
As was suggested numerous times in comments on both parts of this series; emigration is what we do.
Irish people have left for generations and the streets of London, Sydney and New York are no stranger to Irish people looking for a better life.
One mother of two recent emigres feels that this is unlike any other exodus, however.
“It’s different,” she says “When my friends left in the 80s, you felt like they’d be back. Now, you see Irish people putting down roots all over the world.”
That is epitomised in the popularity of Irish clubs across newer areas, with China, Hong Kong and the UAE all having emergent GAA clubs.
Indeed, Brian Cummins went to the effort of establishing Abu Dhabi Paddy, a resource for Irish people heading to the Emirates.
‘A choice’
It is not politically clever to say it, as politicians can attest, but there is some truth to the idea that some people leave Ireland by choice.
Aveen Croash is one of those people. She left Ireland for London four years ago and her view of the country has improved with time.
“When I first left four years ago and was going home for visits, Ireland seemed like a very depressing place. Lots of my friends and family were losing jobs and those that kept theirs had the sword of Damocles dangling overhead while working flat out to compensate for their increased workload.
“Every time I visited, it rained every day and it just felt grey and flat.
It feels better now though: my Mam makes a point of mentioning new companies that are opening up when I call and although people don’t seem to be making as much money as they used to, my friends seem a lot happier too.
Dan* doesn’t feel the same. He’s been in Toronto for three years after being unable to find a job in Ireland.
“I didn’t want to come home, so when my first visa was up, I hung on. I only ended up overstaying by a week or so, but I managed to get a job and am working my way to residency now.
“I can’t say my opinion of Ireland has improved greatly from the outside, to be honest. Even here, people give out about the [public transport] and I just laugh.
Compared to Dublin, it’s a Swiss watch. So you see how simple things work better elsewhere from the outside.
What is striking is that, despite their different reasons for going, neither plan on coming home.
“At the moment, I don’t plan on coming home in the immediate future and it would probably be for family-related reasons that I would,” says Aveen.
“I love living in London and there are so many more opportunities here for work, it’s exciting, and I’m fortunate to live in an area where even if you’re broke, there’s so much to do.”
Dan is more unequivocal.
“No. Why would I?”
What would make Ireland more attractive?
“A better economy and more variety of opportunities,” says Aveen.
“Less rain would be good too but I doubt there’s anything that can be done about that.”
Have you noticed an under reported effect of emigration? Email: paulhosford@thejournal.ie
Ireland is a failed society if 300,000 Irish leave the country since 2008.
Thread softly now cried William Yeats
Your steppin upon me dreams
Tax on booze and children’s shoes
And taxin’ our homes, now it seems
Democracy flown, sold out for a loan
Bankocracy here in its place
300 “K”, gone to find a days pay
Its a total thunderin’ disgrace.
Political Parties are Private Clubs … passing laws in their own interest, the interest of their members and the vested interest of those who fund and support them. The Irish should Bring their Brains to the Polling Booths. The kids deserve it.
300,000 people left 56% of that number are Irish the rest foreign nationals. It’s not all one way traffic.
Was that you or Yeats? Thumbs up either way, wise words.
Marc,
Just wondering how accurate this figure is and where can someone get these figures? Government are lying to us with their live register percentage as they are not telling is about emigration and internship numbers. That irritates me so so much. Thanks in advance.
@R Neuville
Pure poetry is rare.
Please write more :)
Better to go than stay.
What life would they have here, even with a job, a low paid job.
Slaving to pay off our national debt, high taxes.
Better to make a better life for themselves abroad where they’re not penalised for working. And never to return to their birthplace where they have been disregarded like a piece of wrapping paper.
If only I had the chance again, I’d go.
If only.
Better to go than stay.
What life would they have here, even with a job, a low paid job.
Slaving to pay off our national debt, high taxes.
Better to make a better life for themselves abroad where they’re not penalised for working. And never to return to their birthplace where they have been disregarded like a piece of wrapping paper.
If only I had the chance again, I’d go.
If only.
DONT LIKE BEING ASKED BY THE JOURNAL TO ADD MY FRIENDS ON FACEBOOK. ANYBODY ELSE FEEL THE SAME ???
SOUNDS VERY GOOGLISH !
We listened to the meeja
Who thought they knew it all
But they were only shovlin’ sh1t
The same as Fianna Fail
The wunch a bankers peddlin’ pain
With products made from air
And now Our Nation once again
Is driven to despair.
—————————————————–
20,000 Irish jobs would be supported by the €1.5 Billion the Irish spend on new cars EVERY YEAR.
Daft Irish Car Tax artificially promotes the purchase of new cars in a country that produces none and forces pre-2008 car owners to subsidise new car owner’s annual car tax. €951 p.a. Car Tax for 15 yr old car worth €500 while an equivalent new car tax is €358 to drive on the same Irish roads. Why was this Law passed in the Dail & Seanad?
Countries that do not produce cars have a car tax system that levies high tax on new cars and low tax on older cars to promote car life longevity. Its called conservation of wealth, which generates jobs and leads to a successful society.
—————————————————-
- “Cherish Your Vote, use it well, the Kids Deserve It.
Excellent post. The Irish road tax system is dysfunctional and shambolic, with older cars grossly subsidising newer ones.
And when the greedy and corrupt county councils get their hands on the money, they waste it on their big salaries and expenses, as well as totally stupid projects like totally unnecessary speed ramps (which do nothing to improve road safety) on every side street in Ireland. Incompetent monkeys.
As a 23 year old, I just see this country as a joke. Every single aspect of it is a joke. We are the most backward nation in the Western world, and we have nothing to be proud of but a lot to be ashamed of
You think? You need to get out more.
I agree but I think corrupt rather than backward.
Corrupt more than backward. Just seems there’s a brown envelope philosophy among the elite.
Too liberal, I suppose?
Equally corrupt and backward. Bible thumping right wing idiots on one side, greedy sociopaths on the other, mixed in with some feeble minded liberals with more time than sense.
It is a seriously bad sign when there is not a single politician that you would feel comfortable voting for.
Now to cap it all off, there is no future where we aren’t slaves
Leave us greedy sociopaths out of this.
You’re your own worst enemy. I know some Irish people that came to London the last couple of years. They slag the country off to people here. Saying it’s a kip and stay away from it. Things are hard for many people everywhere.
Ben, what’s your idea of a perfect country and can you give an example?
I love the way ‘liberal’ is made out to be a bad thing, as if all that we need is for our liberty to be restricted!
Ben, you are correct my generation age 66 should be ashamed of ourselves to allow the greed and corruption ruin our country. I went to my brothers funeral in Toronto in Jan. 2013 and met thousands of young people who I said to them that they are the lucky ones who got out. They are happy to be there working and great Irish community spirit and good Irish pubs and restaurants, and not forgetting the G . A. A whom I unfortunately was never a member here, but over there they galvanise the whole community, well done. However for those left behind let’s think before you vote next time and ask questions and don’t accept the gombeenism. Parish pumps politics etc. God help us
@Mark – You are right that I am my own worst enemy. I love Ireland really. It just really annoys me that we started majorly screwing up the country as soon as we got our independence, which is a seriously bad reflection on our society. History will not be kind to us.
Ben, what about the famine; the great Dublin lockout, when unemployment in Ireland was at a historical peak, WW1, the fact that Dublin had the worst slums in Europe? This was all before we got our independence. Don’t get me wrong I’m not defending any of our politicians, far from it, There’s things I wouldn’t do to any of them if they were on fire, but I’m tired of people constantly knocking Ireland as being the only corrupt society. These things happen all over the world if they’re allowed to, not just in Ireland.
O ye Ireland is equally corrupt as many nations, but in terms of competent governance, there has been zilch. The worst thing is that we had a better chance than most countries to build something great, but we completely fluffed it.
I left Ireland now I’m living the dream.
I agree Ben, we’ve fluffed it so far. But as a country we’re less than one hundred years old. Other countries have been ruling themselves far longer and they’re no better than Ireland. Look at the US after 100 years independence, there was corruption everywhere, hell it’s not much better now. It’s a constant process. We can’t live in the past but If we don’t learn from it then we’re screwed.
You talking about Ireland or America? Cos you just described both
Well feck off then
Liberals restrict liberty more than anyone. They are the driving force of the nanny state.
Lol ben. …Go abroad then to experience the wonders of the world…I left in the 80 s…. It was backwards then. .. but not now mate
I left in September ’09. Me, my (now) wife, and our daughter who was 18 months old at the time. I was born in Canada but moved to Ireland for 6 months in 2002. That turned into settling there for life, easy when I was a citizen of both countries. I had never drawn the dole until that last year when I had no choice. With very heavy hearts we left friends and family behind. We couldn’t afford to tax and insure the car AND buy food. In 2012 we said goodbye to the oilfield and friends and family in Canada and moved back to country we loved. F*** it we thought. What more do we need than a roof over our heads and happy hearts? It turns out being able to heat a house through the winter is a rather nice luxury. We lasted a year and in March ’13 we tucked tail and ran. Its not that people don’t want to come back to Ireland. They just can’t. Politicians and bankers totally ruined the place. I’ll be back for visits, but that’s likely all. Thank you, Ireland, for the best years of my life.
Sorry, it was June ’13 we left.
Nobody emigrates from Singapore, Switzerland, New Zealand, Iceland and Norway etc. But we have this 50-60 something boomer generation telling us the same thing their predecessors said “t’is something to be proud of”. Crash the economy very few years, keep the elite insulated and let the young emigrate. Every one else can work for buttons along with new new immigrant class and we can line our pockets. It’s win win!
Gombeen: A particular type of person who used to help the landed gentry evict tenants from their feudal plots and then sell them one way tickets on famine ships to American.
Modern Gombeenisim.
Never let anyone tell you emigration is good for Ireland. Ask them why the Swiss etc don’t do it.
apologies for the typos, keyboard is acting up.
10% of Swiss population living abroad…
Singapore has one of the highest emigration rates in the world. According to Forbes magazine, over fifty percent of Singaporeans would like to emigrate. 26% living below the poverty line in Singapore. Sounds like paradise…
Really Sean – there must be tens of thousands probably many more kiwis in Australia. You will maybe say that’s not emigrating but Uk is a lot closer to here than NZ to Australia. Loads of them in London too. I used to play football in Belgium with a Swiss lad, must be the one and only person to leave that country
Over 325,000 people left Britain in 2013.
New Zealand has some of the highest emigration in the world, which is major problem for their economy. Australia and the UK combined probably have more kiwis living in them than what NZ has.
@Lesley Ann. New Zealanders have a rite of passage. It’s called ‘The Big OE’ — overseas experience. They do go overseas, but most return to Godzone. Why wouldn’t they?
@Marc. What percentage of the population is that, compared with Ireland?
I think Smiley needs to go to Australia to see how many kiwis permanently live there.
Lots, but with the economic downturn in Oz, lots are going home.
@smiley, lots of Irish do that “big OE” too. They just don’t call it that
Labour,Fine Gael & Fianna Fáil a lot to answer for……
Greed and self interest.
Its FF that needs to answer the questions, they caused the problem
Emigration. Ireland’s shame. Another generation lost.
They’re not lost, they’re simply elsewhere. It’s a big world and there’s no obligation on anyone to live their lives within a stone’s throw of where they are from/reared. The meeja keeps harping on about emigration being a ‘tragedy’ or a deep source of shame etc etc. There’s nothing ‘tragic’ about being an economic migrant, in fact the use of such terminology is an affront to those victims of war/oppression/slavery etc who genuinely need to flee overseas in fear of their lives.
Anyway, in the vast majority of cases, emigrants can and do return. It’s a far cry from the days of the famine when emigration was a one way ticket. *That* was a tragedy, what we are experiencing now is an economic downturn – nothing more, nothing less.
Elsewhere, I agree, but most have no or little choice. Go for work or stay on the scrap heap.
We’re not all away…There’s a damn lot of highly skilled young Irish people sticking it out in education, doing post grads, masters etc..improving their employability.
A large proportion of people who originally went abroad were college drop outs or people who didn’t even go in the first place.- which is another issue to address altogether
Well said Kevin Collins
Like they say…. One mans meat is another mans poison…. Many make a great life and living when they leave… As the years roll by you get to see the country for what it really is… Basically our independence delivered us from one shower of tits to be embraced by another….
Switzerland population 7.5 million , more than 850,000 of there people live out side Swiss more than 11% of population , highest living standard and GDP in Europe and people still leave ,
So get over it the world is on the move ,
Look outside the box every now and again
Let’s be honest here the vast majority of people in that age group are not leaving Ireland out of necessity but for a bit of fun for a few years before they settle down. Granted there are a few who do have to leave for genuine reasons.
really
Totally agree. I know quite a few who left for oz eyc and it was for a bit of fun and excitement. They gave up jobs here
Dave your a typical know all who probably never left his little country village in his life but yet knows so much about the world. Let me tell you mate many people are going for work, myself included. YOU HAVEN’T A FU*KING CLUE.
Relax gaz. Lots of us have left and come back a few times. Myself I left & returned three times, not including studying abroad. Right now I’m in permanent employment with a family, mortgage etc, yet I’m planning another adventure. The experience you get abroad is invaluable.
That is my experience with my group of friends and family, unfortunately a couple employed in construction had no choice but the majority wanted an adventure for a while (the exact same thing happened during the boom!)
Each to their own but I hate people coming back here or saying it from abroad that Ireland is s&ite and the never want to come back, weather, low paid, jobs. I work in Ireland and not making big money but comfortable. Despite all our problems I still think we live in one of the best, safe spun tires in the world. Our climate is also less severe than most countries.
We all here of these huge numbers leaving the country but the majority in every age bracket are still here. Ireland gave a great education and relatively cheap to all those with good jobs and lifestyles abroad so maybe don’t knock it so much.
Have to agree Steve.
The grass is always greener… I moved to Ireland 3 years ago and can’t see me leaving ever again. By experience (I’ve lived in different places), living elsewhere helps you to put things into perspective. I for once love it here and I’ve never felt more welcome in any other place and every day I consider myself the luckiest girl for being able to live here.
Paloma…. Thanks for the positive and kind comments about this lovely Island.
I came back 5 years ago from an awful and lonely existence in London and have no plans of leaving either. .. and despite all the nonsense here about how good money is in London it’s not. .
It’s is a very expensive place with lower salaries than here
Well I for one love Ireland and all its quirky little ways best people in the world couple of gob shites thrown in of course but shur that’s the same in every walk of life..
As a 21 year old I pretty much feel the same. As soon as I’m finished college I hope to be in the states or somewhere just as far. Not only is there constant miserable weather here but there is no oppportunities what so ever for young people here unless you wanna work in a minimum wage retail job the rest of your life. Ireland is a very backward and old fashioned country. Such a shame that our own country can’t provide us with a better future
Fabiana. .
You’re in for some major shocks if you think here is backward. … It may not be for you. .. at the moment… but experience and maturity will help you appreciate this small island one day
Ireland IS very backward. It’s nothing to do with lack of experience or maturity.
People a lot older feel exactly the same. There’s no future in this rain-sodden social and economic backwater.
I left Ireland 3 years ago after finishing college. I moved to town in the South of Spain and teach English. I left Ireland because I wanted to not because of the Recession. I wanted to travel and experience a different culture while I was young and more or less commitment free! Since then I Have had the most amazing experience. At first it was a culture shock to say the least but now I can speak Spanish, have seen some amazing places, have a Spanish family and have made lots of new friends, experienced different festivals and best of all I can now cook!! I love returning to Ireland for holidays to see my family and friends and they of course come and visit me too. Emigration is definelty not a bad thing it makes us better people, opens our eyes to to the world and some sunshine is nice too of course;)
If we stopped welfare and let the nothing class die off wouldn’t it be better for everyone
Very negative comments on here I think the celtic tiger delivered a dose of expectancy to Ireland that we never had before. Taxes are higher than a few years ago but this just brought us in line with Europe. People expect great wages snd benefits that realistically should never have been the norm we got way ahead of ourselves in the tiger era. I have travelled lived in Australia for two years great place but not home. Even the mighty Australian economy ud slowing down and it appears Canada is creating its own property bubble I think we might see more of our own coming home in next few years ss these place’s slow down.
Cleary people leave for different reasons. The ones you feel sorry for are the ones that really don’t want to leave, might have a kid or two and want to be close to family. But some of the Ireland bashing is a little off the mark. The people who say ‘come over to London there’s so much to do’ – constantly being on the go is fine, but not everyone is an event junkie and finds the idea of constantly doing ‘stuff’ appealing. Ireland is by no means perfect, but neither are the UK, Australia or the US – far from it.
I have had to change careers in my 30′s to stay in Ireland as I want my kids to know, really know, their family and their culture, and personally I wouldn’t swap the small pleasures of my Irish lifestyle – going to a game with my old man, having a spontaneous pint with an old friend, going for a drive up the west coast on a Sunday morning (I don’t care if its raining, people tend to forget that heat brings all sorts of horrible creatures with it), and going about my daily life without being surrounded by millions of other people I couldn’t care less about. I travelled a fair bit in my 20′s, love seeing new places and meeting new people, and hope to continue doing so in my 30′s, but for day to day living – life is short and I think I can live without Skype.
Kevin. … Well said Mister
Sounds like a lot of comments here from the spoiled offspring of the septic Tiger moaning about what they think they’re owed by their country. ….. Try the experiences of the earlier generations of emigrants …. times were hard then. …. No crying into your latte while debating your emigration options over skype or at a career fair for jobs abroad
A fantastic piece again Paul and thanks for the mention. I decided to establish a free and informative website, twitter, facebook and linkedin group that catered for the Irish community in Abu Dhabi and the United Arab Emirates which is one of the fastest growing expat communities in the Middle East.
I believe like many of the comments above state that Irish will continue to go overseas and Irish communities will continue to grow as more and more highly skilled Irish professionals become exhausted by debt, tax, and poor government policies (and rain) instead choosing a career change and an adventure. If any of your followers are thinking of making the move to this tax-free oasis, I recommend it.
All the information you need to quell your fears or intrigue your sense of adventure about moving to the Gulf are on our website http://www.abudhabipaddy.com like our facebook page, tweet us or join our Linkedin page to know more about living in Abu Dhabi and the United Arab Emirates.
Slan,
Brian Cummins
Completely agree Dave. They’re all of enjoying themselves spending mommy and daddies money, finding themselves. Makes me sick they should be at home working
Very few are spending mommy’s money as you put it. They’re earning money and gaining experience while enjoying themselves at the same time. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Dan You make me laugh you havn’t a clue. “should be at home working”… ah sur yeah we will all head back to these imaginary jobs
No I’m not from a small county village and would it matter if I was. What I see mostly are people who go to work in Australia or Canada and embarrass this country by making shows of themselves on the streets of Sydney. Irish people were once welcomed everywhere because they were willing to work. I wonder how welcome the irish are in Australia now with all there shameful drinking habits and not showing up to work sober!!!
You think?
For every purchase of a new 141 & 142 car, an Irish person has to be exported to Australia or Canada.
- €1.5 Billion p.a. transferred out of the Irish economy would support 20,000 jobs. Daft Irish Car Tax Law.
I emigrated to Brisbane mid 2005. During the first 2-3 years I would travel home, most people on the plane would be a mix of business people, older families on holidays and a few people my own age. This year was an eye opener – actually shocked me. 85% of those lining up on the Emirates Dublin-Dubai flight were irish people in their 20s and 30s. Most going on to connections in Australia. It made me wonder who is left?
I am one those who left and why wouldn’t I. I’m young and its a big world to see. Not many countries haven’t been affected with the downturn. people need to stop complaining about it and get on with things. I don’t know many people who wouldn’t want to experience a new country. Most will be home at some stage anyway. Whats the big issue?
Declan you clearly don’t know anything at all. Think before you type Declan. It’s people like u and that silly mindset that got this country raped by the bankers
have your say