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THERE HAS BEEN a mixed reaction to the announcement by DUP leader Peter Robinson that he will not be resigning as First Minister of Northern Ireland amid the controversy around letters given to IRA suspects.
Robinson had given an ultimatum to the British government saying that he would resign within 24 hours unless there was an independent investigation into the letters.
He withdrew his threat last night after British Prime Minister David Cameron announced that a judge will review the deal, which saw 187 republican paramilitary suspects given letters saying that they would not be prosecuted for their actions during the Troubles.
The issue came to light after the collapse of the trial of John Downey, the man accused of carrying out the Hyde Park bombing in 1982 which killed four soldiers.
Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness rejected suggestions that the deal had been covert saying that the information was in the political arena and “to a certain extent in the public domain” too.
McGuinness said there was a lot of misinformation about the status of the suspects who received the letters.
Speaking outside Stormont, McGuinness said Northern Ireland leaders had to work through the current issues and “stop the grand standing”. ”The big responsibility at this time is for cool heads, it’s for steady leadership, it’s for responsible leadership,” he said.
Jim Allister, the leader of Traditional Unionist Voice, was critical of Peter Robinson, saying that the review being offered by David Cameron does not go far enough.
“There will be no public inquiry, no taking of evidence in public, no witnesses called, rather an administrative review of the paperwork, dressed up for the gullible as something more,” said Allister.
He said that if Peter Robinson accepts what Cameron has offered, it will be seen as buckling after playing “the hard man”.
Sinn Féin Assembly member Alex Maskey said the British Attorney General has already said that the scheme was “lawful and proper,” and ssaid it was unclear what can be investigated.
“What cannot be challenged is the integrity of the scheme or the good faith of those who have been processed through it,” he said. “These people have gone through a process and it has been established that they are not wanted for questioning or charge. That fact can’t be changed”.
This announcement is a political fig leaf for the DUP to try and get them off the hook they jumped onto over the past few days.
The Stormont Assembly will meet today for a special debate over the handling of the IRA suspects considered to be on-the-run.
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The Unionist and loyalist political class continues to erode itself.
I wonder what Kirk McCamley thinks?
If Robinson didn’t know about the letters then he obviously wasn’t doing his job right so he should resign. If he did know about the letters and is only throwing a tantrum now then he should resign.
The DUP/Orange Lodge have enough members within the ranks of the “security”services that the concept of Robinson not knowing about the letters is just laughable. What actually happened I believe is that they sat on the information and hoped that it would never surface. Downey’s case made them have to take their collective heads out of the sand and squawk with faux indignation. The so called “review” is nothing more than a face saving exercise for Robinson and the DUP in the run up to the forthcoming elections.
If the DUP pulled out of the executive who wins and who loses. DUP looks to be standing up to the Shinners, dissidents proven right that Unionists/Brits can’t be trusted and increase recruiting/attacks-Winners.
Sinn Fein lose support as the peace process crumbles and the Brits show that they are not serious about equality and peace building as well as not being trustworthy-Losers.
NI goes back to violence. Ultimate losers, the people of Northern Ireland.
As Enda Kenny and Eamon Gilmore have stated these letters or ‘get out of gaol free cards’ were instigated between the Irish and British governments. The specifics concerning numbers of ‘letters might not have been disclosed to the Stormont parties and neither would the names have been given. The letters are ‘royal pardons’ signed on behalf of the queen and cannot therefore be withdrawn by either government..
That escalated quickly.
So rather than the obvious consequence of Assembly elections being called and Sinn Féin potentially emerging as the largest party (with Martin McGuinness taking the role of First Minister) amid massive unionist division (DUP, UUP, TUV, NI21, UKIP, NI Conservatives, PUP, APNI and independents all vying for election), the only inevitable conclusion for the North is a return to directionless violence?
Chris, the “Royal Pardons” were issued in 2000 and 2010 to 5 people and are common knowledge to everybody so there is no surprise there, The other letters were also well known if not publicly stated and Downey in fact traveled to Canada and the UK on a number of occasions prior to his arrest so he obviously felt that he was OK to enter British jurisdictions. The letters are not in fact Royal Pardons but letters of assurance the the person named will not face prosecution for crimes committed before a specific date unless further evidence is produced. In the Downey case the prosecution was relying on old evidence and therefore could not prosecute.
Kenny and Gilmore are just spouting a load of rubbish and trying to confuse the letters of non prosecution with Royal Pardons. AFAIK only 41 people have received Royal Pardons since 1801 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Recipients_of_British_royal_pardons although if Kenny and Gilmore can prove otherwise I will happily concede my case to them.
Ciaran that would be the worst case scenario that a cynic like me would see as inevitable. You may well be right in your assessment however if SF did in fact become the largest political party, held First Minister-ship and the Unionists were all over the place do you think that the Unionists would sit in an assembly run by Nationalists and with Martin McGuinness as First Minister?
The titles of ‘First Minister’ and ‘Deputy First Minister’ are a nonsense – they are in actual fact Joint First Ministers.
And as for unionists sitting in a nationalist majority Assembly, that is an impending reality. They sit in nationalist majority councils in Down, Newry and Mourne, Belfast, Derry etc at the minute so they’ll have time to adjust to the inevitability.
Sinn Fein are just Fianna Fail for slow learners, so they gaining any further seats is not necessarily a forward step for NI.
Brian, It was Peter Robinson who called them Royal Pardons after his meeting with the Northern Ireland Secretary. David Cameron also used the term Royal Pardons in his address to parliament yesterday,
Why would Enda Kenny and Gilmore tell a lie over such a delicate issue concerning both governments.
Chris I don’t think I said lie as regards Kenny and Gilmore, it was more along the lines of they haven’t a clue of whats going on as usual. They don’t even know what their own Government Ministers are doing so what hope have they on commenting on other governments actions.
Robinson used “Royal Pardons” to bolster his argument knowing that most Loyalists are easily wound up. Of course they didn’t think for a minute that it was their Queen that they are so loyal to who handed out the pardons to 5 people in the first place so now they are totally confused.
A foreign invader takes over our land. Kicks people out of their lands, starves them to death and kills millions as there was no famine. The potato crop failed. Other crops were sent to England. Beaten, tortured and raped and people out there stll have a go a Sinn Fein!
It was a daring plan alright to make the potato crop fail. Ya just can’t be up to them :D
Youse are right ,Ironman , youse are right ..lol it was ..lol
Tinman…. How many unionist/loyalist politicians were involved in Kincora?
Haha, Ironman. It was a daring plan to rob the peasants of what ever food they had in order to pay so called landlords who robbed them of their lands. I can picture you already. Tracksuit wearer with a small manhood. Stop trolling. Go back to school and get off the dole
I sense a lot of whataboutery
He’s not threatening to resign over the British Soldiers that perpetrated Bloody Sunday not seeing the inside of a jail cell.
For a man who goes on about victims, there are victims on both sides. You either prosecute both sides, or you leave the peace deal intact. What he’s seeking to do is have his cake and eat it, by having Loyalists off the hook for atrocities, while still going after the Republican side.
No one wins here. He’s an utter pleb.
In fairness though British army officers are getting pulled before judges every now and again. They didn’t get any comfort letters….
Yeah and back after their day out to work on a promotion…in fairness
ah yeah they aren’t going to jail like.
Loyalists are still being lifted by the HET, more so than republicans. Loyalists were jailed throughout the conflict too so dont make out as if the thing was all one way.
Nobody else should be lifted now whether its the IRA, the UVF or the Paras. Draw a line under the whole thing or else be prepared to go after EVERYBODY instead of singling out certain people and letting others off the hook.
Would this be the same HET that was accused of “treating state cases differently as a matter of policy”? Or the same HET that is largely staffed by ex-RUC members who had already received massive retirement packages under Patten ? Oh aye a real beacon of independence and impartiality.
The thing is Jamesy is that most cases of loyalist violence were never even investigated by the RUC. In fact, they often sabotaged them. Take for instance the Annie’s bar massacre in Derry in 1972. The primary witness, being the first on the scene after the shooting and saw the shooters, unmasked. He could identify the getaway car and the direction in which it headed after the attack. The RUC never spoke a word to him let alone took a statement.
Can you explain the amount of loyalists that did time in jail then?
Surely you wernt serious when you said most loyalist attacks wernt investigated by the police.
The HET was set up to investigate nearly 3000 unsolved murders, considering there were only 3500 altogether it would suggest that almost all attacks wernt properly investigated. Would you agree?
The letters where issues After a “cold case” review and decreed by the DPP that no evidence strong enough to merit a prosecution was available. The Bloody Sunday tribuneral has established that those killings were, in the words of British prime minister, unjustified and unjustifiable. Major difference in these circumstances.
And are u also advocating that unionist also sign up to the rest of the Haas proposals.????
I do live the dramatics of ‘massacre’ that gave me a chuckle. Suppose the IRA never commuted massacres?
Committed
What happened JB was the chicken coop left unattended…………. How did 200 letters get by the whole DUP/orange order , do you really believe peter didn’t know or is he trying to save face
Iron man do you not get sick of spouting the same old crap . I am a nationalist from the north, without the ira and sinn fein i would be living in the south today or dead as i my family would have been burnt out by your lovely weee peaceful loyalists. with the help of the ruc and brits long ago. There was a war on up here , ya myt have seen about it on the rte at 6 while u were flicking over to home and away
Thats def my comment of the week!
Loyalists are just as bad as you lot, you can’t get it into your head that it’s not only the loyalists who despite SF/IRA. Unfortunately you don’t realise the we in the south categorise ye all as the exact same up there in that hellhole, and that hellhole shall remain part of the uk as we want nothing to do with the people of the north as you all support terrorism and sectarianism. The phrase ye made yer bed springs to mind :)
@Ironman no their bed was made by Quislings and spineless wonders who allowed the Government of Ireland Act 1920 to stand. Carry on.
Maybe they might start teaching you to, use the correct English syntax and structure in your writing, as a reward for your loyalty.
They may also teach you that extremism on any side is not productive to civilised society
Democracy allowed them do it and history proved it was possibly the best decision on this island :)
Likewise with your name oh the hypocrisy of your comment :D
Seosamh, you must be a very holy man. I looked up Mac An Tsagairt as I did not know that it was a surname. It means ‘son of the priest’. Are you really the son of a priest?
Democracy? – 1918 election was democratic all else wasn’t.
My name?? I didn’t realise my family name caused offence? But the difference is I don’t hide behind a fake name and a specific account to post here
Tell me when the Brits tried to burn you out of your home, im genuinely intrigued.
Have to love these boys playing the victim card as if there was never a Protestant burned from their home, shot or bombed.
All whinging about their hardships while in the same breath bigging up the IRA who put more misery upon even their own comminity that the loyalists or the British army ever did.
Looking at him in this profile pic too its obvious he didnt see much of the troubles.
Ironman have you ever read a history book?? ” the phrase you made your bed”????? Nationalist in the northeastern counties didn’t make that particular bed. It was jumbled together by British and loyalist with major threats of war and violence, jumbled together after a sectarian head count to ensure an undemocratic majority, jumbled together in contradiction to a democratically elected all Ireland Goverment. And proceeded to be ran as a Protestant state for a pretext any people. And you call us terrorists while sectarian police and militia look down there guns backed by British looking at us down even more guns.
A Protestant people*
Hound of Cooley you do realise that the 1918 general election was a British election. Are you saying therefore that all of the elections in Ireland since have been un-democratic…..?
Priceless Banga that gave me a good laugh indeed
Banga that is my surname,have you a problem with my surname, do u want me to change my feckin surname
Amadon
Jamsey i am bigging nothing up what about bombay street loyalists led by ruc burnt nationalists out that is fact. I am old enough to remember the paras. In my mothers town busses were on standbye incase they needed to be evaquated. I dont need to justify history to you it is all around us in books newspapers the net i suggest you do some research
I do enjoy the dramatics of SF supporters always great for a chuckle
Robinson was throwing shapes and faux outrage over something that the dogs in the street knew about.
Who would that be?
Ask the dogs on the street, according to the shinners they know everything :D
Woof ,woof,woof ..lol what did youse say , doggie ..lol Ironman ..lol youse don’t understand him ..lol Youse do know , Ironman is a putty cat ,,meow -meow ..lol
Ironman – don’t you know that you are not allowed to leave your dog on the street anymore – take him indoors , feed him , speak to him , ask him does he know Robinson ? & golly Ironman – take your medicine and realise that Ireland IS uniting in heart and spirit !
Old fashioned Unionists like you are but a dogs dinner !
Sure Ironman – you just don’t know who or what you are !
But you are everyone’s Number One !
Our absolute favourite Troll and we love you .
When you eventually see the light and start getting those Green Thumbs Up , we will still love you then too Ironman.
As a cross dressing Unionist , you are still one of Gods children !
Have a great day – a chara !
DING!!!!
A red thumb from a shinner is a good thing to all decent people :)
What’s his wife going to do now for entertainment?
Oggie, I had to look up the meaning of lol. Apparently it stands for Loyal Orange Lodge. What does this mean please, I am confused.
I never knew you were a cross dresser ……..
Banga ,,lol I’s am having lol lol lol lol youse are taking the proverbial pi$$ ..lol buts I’s likes youse ..lol lol I’s am only loyal to my 5 wives ..lol
“Ironman” The red hand of ulster jumps out of the page as often as the red thumbs down you recieve every time you comment you bigot clown!
In fairness, the Red Hand has been hijacked somewhat.
“The Red Hand symbol is believed to have been used by the Uí Néill clan during its Nine Years’ War (1594–1603) against the spread of English control. The war cry Lámh Dhearg Abú! (Red Hand to victory!) was also associated with the Uí Néill”
So the irony sometimes that they use that as their symbols, as well as it appearing on both the Tyrone and Antrim county GAA crests is funny.
:)
Just stating the fact. Your problem is with the facts not me.
And dont forget the loyalists use the left hand, the republicans use the right hand… For the fleg that is… Not anything else, in case ye are thinking about cracking one off tinman…
How is his wife is she still dating 18 year olds and giving them pocket money.
If that’s the best you can come up with Daniel I suggest you stay out of debate.
Pram. Toys.
For flip sake even my dog knew and she’s half deaf
Peter talked the talk,
But wouldn’t walk the walk…
You would have to love all politicians..
Their word is their bond…
He used this as a Political tool to gain points, didn’t this happen before Wife affair crying on TV shambollicks.
Oh, the grand old Duke of York,
He had ten thousand men,
He marched them up to the top of
The hill and he marched
Them down again.
And when they were up they were up.
And when they were down they were down.
And when they were only half way up,
They were neither up nor down.
This thing will ask people for votes?
more votes than you got anyway stephen
“Banga” “The man is trying to keep his country in the UK”. You are referring to Peter Robinson your friend. Let me make this clear to you. It’s not his country, the British stole Northern Ireland from the island of Ireland the same way the British imposed their rule and stole your land in Africa. End!
They stole it, ah stop that is just priceless :D
The hypocrisy of Peter Robinson and his fellow Unionists during the Troubles in the North was plain for all to see. They turned a blind eye to the violence carried out by the Protestant paramilitary groups. There was violence on all sides and that is well known .
Most was carried out by republicans though, thats an undisputed fact that id be happy to argue with you.
Can we take back articles 2 and 3 of the constitution if they change the GFA
Take them back if you want, wont get you anywhere though. NI is a part of the UK and that isnt up for debate.
For now maybe, the majority of Britain want rid. Give it time.
Jamey’s will find that under the GFA that it is up for debate and at some stage even up for an election. So hypothetically if when such a vote takes place and people elect to reunite this country, will u as a democrat respect and accept that decision???
What’s the bets the British and Irish governments are already arguing over who DOESN’T get the 6 counties?!!!
Peter Robinson has a sad life. Poor fella.
Yeah 600k a year coming into his house, id take that sad life too if I could.
Republic? A “republic” bought with the freedom of nationalists in the 6 counties, isnt it lovely for you down here in your lovely peaceful “republic” ,the last thing you need is the rowdy republicans in the 6 counties reminding you that they were sold out and you did nothing while they were being shot and beaten off the streets by unionists because they dared to protest for civil rights.
That “let the north sort it’s own problems out” mentality really worked a treat for you during the days of unionist domination in the north when you didnt have to feel guilty that you were standing idly by whilst your fellow country men were effectively living under an apartheid regime.
What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander Chris,you got your republic and republicans in the north want theirs too!!!
Wishful thinking, whereas you might be better off sticking with being in a devolved government part of the Uk. That way I can continue to shop in the north and afford a. few bottles of wine or whiskey now and then.
Keep drinking the wind, Chris AXXX hole.
Drinking the wind or pissing against the wind….
Chris, How many successive elections did Adams win in his Belfast constituency? Also, SF were the second largest party in the North in terms of popular vote at the last MP & MLA elections. They were less than 10,000 votes from being the most popular. This in itself is amazing, considering that Loyalists make up over 51% of the population.
Maybe Chris you didn’t know that?
Shinners backtracking at an alarming rate. Robinson demanded a review and he got one within 24 hours. Don’t know anything about the man but he has been very impressive in demanding a getting a review into this farce that allows shinners murder anyone they want.
Did you read the article at all?
He’s nationalists biggest asset. We need to keep him there. He’s doing a very nice demolition unionist job. I’m very impressed with his inability to lead. Nigel dodds is exactly the same. Let’s hope he will be the one to replace peter if he gets the shove. Have a lovely day.
He be trolling @Chief
No he demanded a full independent review, he got a much less powerful
Judicial review, who’s focus is into errors in the process not the process itself!
He demanded the letters be rescinded, they have not been. He got a judge to check the paperwork, but it would take the courts to overthrow the scheme, we already know that the AG has said this wont be happening. Therefore as you were with nothing changed except that Unionism has been further weakened and divided, that’s a good thing, a very good thing!
Brendan your shirt and tie doesn’t hide your thugishness at all.
You can dress a thug up but they are still a thug
Judge already checking the legality of this :) that was quick :) soon to be revoked :)
Youse cannot dress your words ,though ..lol lol they’re still crap ….lol lol
The legality of the process is not within the remit of the judges review, the reason the Hyde park case collapsed was due to the wording in the letter.
To have the letters revoked it will require the crown prosecution service to take a court case and that is not on the agenda
The terrorist empire is crashing down :)
So you think that because Robinson got a judicial review that these letters will be revoked? These letters were included as a large part of the Good Friday Agreement. So you think a judge is going to say “tell ya what that Good Friday Agreement is a load of crap, rip it up & everything that’s included in it”….if that’s what you think will happen you really are deluded!!
Its funny that when anybody does something to annoy republicans they are accused of showing lack of leadership lol. Good leadership would to have not entered government with the republicans to begin with. Every wee thing that gets on their nerves from here on in should be hailed as good leadership, if I were in Stormont id be gluing their office doors shut and tripping them on the corridors.
Oggie, I speak Shona and sometimes English can be very confusing. What is a ‘youse’ and why do you keep writing Loyal Orange Lodge?
Banga your posts are fantastic I’m laughing out loud here, hat tip to you old sport
Don’t speak about Peter Robinson as a thug Ironman – he is one of your Unionist lot !
Banga ,youse are full of too much ganga ..lol lol
Tinman stop commenting absolute garage you sorry excuse for a human. Sitting behind your keyboard all day playing with yourself with your mother cooking your dinner. Sad life
This man is doing his best to keep his country in the UK. Most of the Zimbabweans who flocked into Rudhaka Stadium in Marondera last Sunday to pay homage to Mugabe on his 90th birthday would be very happy to see a return to British rule. Mugabe rules by force. He promised equality for all but he broke every promise he ever made. He reminds me of your Sinn Fein.
Well said, SF are a disgrace
You should do something about it then? Become a revolutionary. Fight for your beliefs. Use everything at your disposal to rid the place of the perceived tyranny. If it is a real cause then you will get followers and in time become a political entity. Or just be a troll.
Well that escalated quickly.
The fact that this person is to be given a welcome home by sf is what disgusts all right minded people. That is why they must never get into power in the south.
You have one vote, feel free to use it as you see fit!
Wow that’s some revelation Brendan people can vote as they wish. The mind boggles at the stupidity
Peter is a good man and I wish him well. I met once in Belfast when I was part of a delegation from Zimbabwe and he went out of his way to be helpful. If there more people like him around this world would be a better place.
Are you the new more eloquent obbiechichuchkweo?
Peter and his part instigated several months of sustained loyalist street violence in the past 18 months by stoking loyalist anger at the Alliance Party over a flag, (but for no other reason than the Alliance Party won his seat at the previous election). He then stood back as though he had nothing to do with it when it got out of hand?
Peter “a good man”? Don’t make me laugh. He is a highly dangerous man and the biggest threat to peace in Ireland today.
He is no angel but compared to the shinners well that’s a different story
The biggest threat to peace are the republicans past and present.
Why is it then James that its always the unionists threatening to bring power sharing down? Republicans don’t threaten this process, loyalists do.
Youse are some fool ,fool hunter ..lol lol I’s am extremely eloquent ..lol I’s let youse know ,that Banga is on the ganga .lol lol He’s good at the old sh1t stirring ..lol lol
For most rational people the fact that this has come into the public view causes mixed feelings, on the one hand there is a relative peace, but on the other hand there are many on both sides walking free and immune from prosecution for some terrible crimes. It’s easy for a republican to brush over the deaths of soldiers or a loyalist to think little of the killing of Catholics, but at the end of the day it’s these psychopaths walking around with their letters contributed greatly to the perpetuation of a cycle of violence which really should not have happened.
I don’t agree. I think it was the concessions on all sides that stopped the cycle of violence.
Also if the idiot wants to revoke these concessions then violence will certainly be in the future.
I would like to see the Irish government play hard ball and leak to the press that they would wish the British collusion to be investigated properly if the Unionists continue to slap the water. That would certainly make the UK agree that the Good Friday agreement is sacred. Irish government are weak and subservient though.
Does that include a full investigation into Irish state collusion with the IRA? I want to know how far that extends.
Jamesy Boy – a great source of info is your local library – it says Carnegie Library over the door !
There are hundreds of books and articles on the subject , while the successors to Jack Lynch ( FF ) are still in denial of the period concerned !
But there were even a few good FF’s in those days , who supported the Six Counties in their plight , though Lynch denied all !
They wernt too quick to step their army across the border anyway because they would have been routed in a week (shame). The dodgy dealings have been touched upon now though with the Smithwick tribunal, it means that your side arent the only ones that can shout collusion. We know you boys were at it too.
Lynch was a Cork man, Nuffield said :-p
Wise words, but better teach these basic common principals to and I quote ‘ the Protestant state for Protestant people’ ! Unlike the majority unionist state we in the south didn’t oppress our Protestant neighbours after partition so to quote your very wise words in the republic we LIVE AND LET LIVE. Ideals of the United Irishmen whose father Wolfe Tone was Protestant.
Mr Robinson is a very shrewd politician and certainly not the worst in the DUP. He cleverly made himself look like a hard man as this is what his followers want. He also took care not to offend the republicans and the nationalists or to cause a conflict with their coalition partners, Sinn Fein.
It is a clever move to say he will resign as he already knew the documents would have to be partially published. A win win situation. The real issue here though are the royal pardons granted to suspected IRA activists or terrorists (depends which part of the fence you’re on) under the GFA without he knowledge of the Irish government or the Stormont assembly members. Is that really true? Did they not have talks with SF and the DUP on this and of course the SDLP as I would expect INLA members to be given the same letters? Of course some people in all these parties had to be involved but it was certainly something that was supposed to be a secret. Now that one of the letters has been made public the underground details of the GFA could be revealed. Neither party wants this to happen and don’t want this can of worms to be opened. My prediction is that nothing will really happen and that it will all be brushed under the table fairly soon.
I think I get the jist of things round here. IRA killing = good, anyone else = bad
Fighting for freedom = good.
Occupying a foreign land = bad.
So IRA killing good everyone else bad… Oh the stupidity
I’m not sure if there will ever be peace in the North.
Such a shocking burden on a society to have to deal with. The effect on young people up there is so damaging and the fear in the elderly is just saddening.
What will it take for people to get along. Let’s assume that the events of the Plantations were the catalyst for the issues which prevail this day. If we can reset the clocks up there and respect each other as hard working decent humans instead of categorising people on religious or political grounds then maybe there would be peace.
I can’t see anyone up there leaving. They’re insanely stubborn and have also made great contributions to the land. I would rather have a Protestant living beside me than a begger or welfare cheat from another country.
So much blood has been spilled that people are still slipping on it. Who has the mop?
It might help if SF would stop harping on about an independent 32 county republic. They don’t really recognise the republic which already exists and yet they want to part of its government. The people here don’t want the north anyway and the people living in the north don’t want Adams. So let the north sort their own problems out first and forget the notion that we can subsidise them, we can’t.
No offense Dwayne, but you comment seems to suggest that sectarianism should be replaced with racism, or am i reading that wrong?
Neither are right in my book.
There is some weird belief among SF that if they can convince unionists then we will welcome them into our country, sadly they are mistaken. The people if the republic want nothing to do with any side in the north and frankly the consensus is ye are welcome to each other and Britain is welcome to the entire mess as it’s nothing got to do with us Irish people
Chris, How many successive elections did Adams win in his Belfast constituency? Also, SF were the second largest party in the North in terms of popular vote at the last MP & MLA elections. They were less than 10,000 votes from being the most popular. This in itself is amazing, considering that Loyalists make up over 51% of the population.
Maybe Chris you didn’t know that?
lordlarry …. I think you are definitely mistaken on that one. I have an Irish passport to prove it. If it were true, the Irish Government would simply stop issuing passports to Irish people born in the North. While at the same time, the British Government is still considering requiring citizens of the North to be compelled to cary passports if they want to enter Britain. I think you have it all the wrong way round.
No I have it perfectly right as always. The people of Ireland despise nordies with equal measure for all. Your simply not welcome as a country
Again lordlarry … our previous president was from the North.
Look at Adams walking into Louth and topping the polls.
Tell you what my friend, let the May elections answer the question for both of us. SF are an all island party. Based on your logic, SF will not get an increased number of seats in the local elections, because everyone hates ‘Shinners’. If I am right and the Soth embraces its Northern comrades as equals, then SF will see a big jump in the number of votes it receives compared to previous elections.
I am sure as a reasonable man, you will not turn down a logical wager like this one :)
Cal, It doesn’t matter how many elections Adams won in the past if he is no longer participating in northern politics. We asked some Belfast ex-republican prisoners what they thought of Adams and their reply was “you can keep him”.
Lets be honest, if there was a border poll tomorrow and people in the north were asked would they prefer to stay with the Uk or join the Republic most of them would want to remain with the Uk.
Most people living in the South don’t want anything to do with the north.
Hi Chris. Thanks for the reply.
Let’s say for example they do stop harping on about a united Ireland. Well then I’m afraid you would have to stop harping on about partition and where does that get us except for silent compliance.
If you want one group to stop talking then another group has to stop talking and so on until we don’t talk. I’m not sure this is the way forward.
Statistically speaking neither you nor I are aware of the exact cost of ending partition. To say we can’t subsidise them is a broad unfounded opinion and not a fact. It is assuming we need to subsidise them and they are somehow incapable of contributing anything to the country. That’s narrow minded and condescending if you ask me.
If however you are the finance minister for North and South and East and West and have access to all the relevant data then I stand corrected.
The issue of SF is a thorny one because of the recent past and owing to the fact they have not got a shot at running modern Ireland.
If they get a shot to run the country and make good progress then the critics would be silenced. If they make a mess of it then the supporters will know they were wrong. Similar to FF/FG/L/GR voters who thought one thing but were proven wrong in the end. The fact that SF remains untested is the biggest issue facing the voting public in deciding who will control us in 2016.
I’m voting for a decent, intelligent and independent person in my area this time. I’m not affiliated with any group.
If we’re looking to blame SF for the actions of the PIRA then we must look back in history and find out who is really to blame. Who caused the events which lead to the actions of the PIRA. Was it Dermot McMurrough or NORAID or Lynch or Carson or the Celtic raiding parties that landed in west Britain all them years ago.
I don’t want to apportion blame like so many think is the only thing to do. I want to find a solution to the problem instead of telling someone to shut up.
The men, women and children of the PIRA did not wake up one morning and decide to do what they did for the fun of it. To assume that would be a failure to look at the issues of the day.
go raibh maith agat.
Are you forgetting Cal that the Irish Government will issue an Irish passport to anyone around the world who can prove that a grandparent was born here, even though most of them have never set foot in the country. However this does not give them an automative right to vote here.
Hi Cal. None taken.
I didn’t intend for anyone to pick up on the word Protestant as a racist one in the context of this article. From reading alot of articles on the North it is common to see the use of Protestant or Catholic to define a group of people. School history books in our current syllabus use these terms so my use of it shouldn’t be considered inappropriate.
Now if you’re referring to my use of the word begger or foreign welfare cheat then no I wasn’t being racist. If you think that’s being racist then I can call you racist against Irish people who have to support foreign welfare cheats and that you hate Ireland so much that you are comfortable with some foreigners coming here specifically to beg on the streets without contributing one iota of substance to the country. If you are happy with these people in the country then you must hate Irish people alot. That’s racist.
There are other groups too which need to be deported.
I’m not sure which comment you picked up on that was racist. Can you be a little more specific. Thanks.
Dwayne, why not focus on one issue instead of jumping all over the place to try and justify your argument. To begin with I am neither for or against this island being ‘partitioned’ as history has taught me to understand that Irishness is not something that is owned by either Unionists or nationalists primarily because Ireland has never been a single self governing nation. I could talk about the Anglo-normans bringing the papal bull if you like but this is ancient history. Then I could talk about the reformation and the religious divisions, but whats the point of that. Let us settle with the history of Ireland over the last century and remember Irelands bid for Home Rule, however there were a lot of people who voted instead to remain with the union and this is where modern politics begins with the ‘partition’ of the northern counties. What is the point in trying to coerce a sizable portion of the islands people into a united Ireland when quite clearly they don’t want it….what I am really saying is live and let live and respect your neighbour.
“What is the point in trying to coerce a sizable portion of the islands people into a united Ireland when quite clearly they don’t want it”
Chris, the people of Ireland didn’t want to be coerced into a partitioned Ireland either. Maybe that’s why the idea of an All-Ireland referendum on re-unification is not allowed. Selective democracy anyone?
There had never been a president of Northern Ireland, I mean this is just the basics… Education is not as it used to be
Wrong again Tir Eoghain Gael.. It was the Boundary Commission in 1919 with Sinn Feins Arthur Griffith who came up with the idea for a six county border compatable with ecconomic and geographic considerations. This was later transferred to a joint British and free state commission chaired by a South African jurist Richard Feetham with Eoin McNeil and J.R Fisher representing the free state and British to bring into effect.
Couldn’t agree more Chris. Live and let live.
In referring back to your comment about stopping SF from talking do you understand that if you stop them then everybody has to stop.
What you are encouraging is censorship and I’m not sure that’s a good road to go down. If you want censorship then why not ban anything that anyone deems worthy of a ban.
This is a website for discussion not silencing your critics. You should be more mature about your debate.
One one hand you say live and let live yet on the other you say SF don’t have the right to their opinion. Double standards Chris!
Now getting back to the issue of a united Ireland. Am I allowed to proclaim my desire for that or am banned from harping ?
I would dearly love to see a peaceful and productive united Ireland.
Dwayne, I dont want to stop Sinn fein frm harping or anyone else for that matter, I have been listening to them rabbiting on for years about a united Ireland and it gets them nowhere. The fact is as you well know they are operating a puppet government in the north with about the same calibre of mla as a county council has in the south. In the south Sinn Fein are a minority party with aspirations of one day making it into government. At local level they are a total waste of space and the first one who comes to my door during the local elections will be told just that.
Do you call that double standards or just telling it as it is.
Hi Chris.
Your original comment was that you think it will help if SF stop harping on i.e. shut up.
Stop harping on, in my book, means shutup because what you’re saying is irritating me. Am i misunderstanding what you said?
More recently you have said you don’t want anyone to stop harping on. This perplexes my simple brain.
Your statement of voting intent is perfectly fine. You won’t be voting SF. Neither will I for that matter. You are entitled to one vote and it is up to you to vote how you wish and nobody has any right to coerce you.
How you vote is of utmost importance to future generations.
If it’s a big no for SF then that leaves you with;
FF.
FG.
GR.
L.
ULA.
AAA.
Independent.
I could never assume what way you will vote based on your writing bar the anti SF stance so my question would be: who will you vote for?
Will you vote for or against austerity?
Will you vote for cuts to desperately needed social services for the most vulnerable in society?
Will you vote for hospital and Garda station closures?
Will you vote to increase the amount you pay for water by treble or quadruple the current amount?
Will you vote to pay a tax to live in your home?
Will you vote for increased Irish emigration and foreign immigration?
Most importantly will you vote to maintain the rule of a political group in this country which serves to destroy the fabric of our society?
Your vote is so important. I hope, as an Irish person, you use it wisely.
slan anois.
Lots if nervous terrorist out there in sure, that cannot be considered a bad thing
Another Tinman account
Bit early for drinking
Well isn’t that SFs bluff well and truly called, funny to watch SF squirm i must say
have your say