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LAST UPDATE | 20 Oct 2023
NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENTS, or ‘NDAs’, are legally binding instruments initially developed to protect industry and trade secrets.
But when we refer to NDAs in contemporary life, we, more often than not, are speaking about confidentiality agreements that have become the default mechanism by which sexual misconduct, abuse, harassment and other rights violations are settled.
The widespread misuse of NDAs came to the fore during the #MeToo movement, which highlighted the extent to which people had been subject to sexual assault and harassment in their lives, but also notably in their places of work. A key moment in the #MeToo campaign came when Zelda Perkins, a former assistant to Harvey Weinstein, broke the terms of an NDA she had signed many years prior with the Hollywood film producer. In doing so, Zelda brought the systematic abuse of NDAs to greater public attention, ultimately uncovering an epidemic of misuse.
I first became aware of NDAs when several people I know shared their experience of signing an agreement. I was horrified to learn that a mechanism that had been designed to prevent the disclosure of trade secrets was being used to silence victims of abuse and harassment, ultimately protecting and emboldening the perpetrators of that very same behaviour. When I first spoke publicly about my concern regarding the misuse of NDAs, it became apparent just how widely these agreements were being misused here in Ireland.
My office received representation after representation outlining situations where employees had been coerced into signing these agreements by their employer, most often in instances of bullying or harassment.
A concerning trend that I noted was the number of NDAs signed by individuals who had endured intense bullying at work, but only after it became known by their employer that they had reported various incidents using Ireland’s Protected Disclosures Act.
One NDA that was shared with my office went as far as having a clause inserted in it which provided that the individual, after receiving a settlement in return for signing the NDA, would no longer be protected by the Act.
Over the years, I was also contacted by several legal professionals expressing their concern regarding the obligation on them to use NDAs as part of their work. One solicitor pointed to the role occasionally played by trade unions in negotiations where NDAs are presented as a solution to workplace harassment, discrimination or bullying. These legal documents don’t always take the form of a traditional NDA but instead can be a contract between two parties associated with a potential severance agreement, within the body of which an NDA is concealed.
It is understood that these agreements are used widely throughout the technology industry and other major players in the private sector internationally, with reporting by the New York Times referring to their being thrown around in the industry like confetti. Not every NDA is used for nefarious purposes, but their use in high-profile scandals within the tech industry is well demonstrated. Given the presence of a large number of multinational tech companies here in Ireland, would it be naive of us to presume that they aren’t engaged in this problematic behaviour?
Notwithstanding all of the high-profile coverage about NDAs in the years since the #MeToo movement, the extent of their use remains a hidden issue because people are so fearful about speaking out. In response to engagement with my office on problem NDA use in Ireland, Minister Roderic O’Gorman commissioned the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth to undertake desk-based research on the prevalence of NDAs in Ireland. The research report found that NDAs are commonly used in various contexts in Ireland; however, the patterns of their use in cases of sexual harassment and discrimination are difficult to identify due to their inherent lack of transparency.
From my research, it is clear that people often feel they have no other option but to sign an agreement; they just want to get away from their harasser or abuser, the organisation that might have overlooked the problematic behaviour and ultimately, the months or years of bullying or sexual harassment they might have endured.
When offered the NDA, they see it as the only way to move on.
However, as with many things, distance changes everything. One individual that I have worked with over several years has advised of the fact that he lost his voice in signing an NDA and feels that he can’t get it back without breaking the terms of the agreement and, thus, opening himself up to legal action.
There is a term known within the industry as “passing the trash”, whereby employers off-load a problematic employee onto another firm or employer under the guise of an NDA. In this instance, an NDA might include a provision that mandates an employer give a departing problematic employee a glowing reference to facilitate their leaving the relevant company. In doing so, the NDA facilitates a perpetrator of abuse and harassment moving to another place of work, where their behaviour can continue without oversight or accountability. This outrageously ignores NDAs’ impact on those who aren’t even party to the agreement, the safety and well-being of third parties, and the facilitation of patterns of abuse. It is short-sighted and immoral.
There are scenarios where a legal NDA will always be required; trade secrets may need to be protected, and intellectual property may need certain legal protections and guarantees. Victims of abuse or harassment may, themselves, seek out an NDA as part of a settlement agreement, and they should be facilitated to do so if this is their express wish. However, there should never be a scenario where we as a society choose to protect the professional reputation of a perpetrator or the organisation they work within, as opposed to seeking accountability and safety for victims of abuse and harassment.
Creating legal frameworks to silence employees and, in some cases, to cover up potential crimes is appalling, particularly given how extensive Ireland’s documented history of the shaming and stigmatisation of victims is.
After a number of years teasing out different solutions to the problem of NDA misuse, my office and Julie Macfarlane, the author of Going Public: A Survivor’s Journey from Grief to Action and a distinguished Professor Emerita of Law at the University of Windsor, drafted a legislative solution in the form of the Employment Equality (Amendment) (Non-Disclosure Agreement) Bill 2021. This Bill proposes all-but-banning the use of NDAs in instances of abuse and harassment in the workplace, ending the silencing and shaming of victims and survivors.
The Bill has, to date, received cross-party and Government support throughout each of its legislative stages in Seanad Éireann. It is proposed that the Bill will be read and considered a final time in the Seanad next Wednesday, the 25 October, following which, with the continued support of colleagues in Government, the Bill can proceed on its legislative journey through Dáil Éireann. While domestic legislative progress has been slower than I might have hoped, the Bill has already had a significant impact in the international arena, with several other common law jurisdictions having transposed and enacted the Bill.
In 2022, Prince Edward Island enacted a version of the Irish bill, drafted by my office, while Nova Scotia and Manitoba have introduced similar bills that stand at varying stages of the legislative process. In March of this year, the leader of the Green Party in British Columbia also introduced legislation modelled on my Bill. The last 12 months have also seen our closest neighbour pass an amendment to ban the use of NDAs in the University Sector, while further afield in the United States, Congress successfully passed and enacted legislation to prevent the enforcement of NDAs in instances of sexual assault and harassment.
Professor McFarlane and Zelda Perkins have been instrumental in achieving this progress through their formidable Can’t Buy My Silence campaign. Without their dedication, the conversation wouldn’t be where it is today.
What this progress demonstrates to me is that it is possible to find consensus on this issue and that it can be addressed through legislative means. Ireland first set the stage for legislative action through the Employment Equality (Amendment) (Non-Disclosure Agreement) Bill in 2021, and I hope that next week, with the continued support of the Government, it will begin to bring down the curtain on the silencing and shaming of victims of abuse and harassment in Irish workplaces.
Lynn Ruane is an independent senator. Lynn is hosting an event next Tuesday – Maykay in conversation with Zelda Perkins, the activist who broke the Harvey Weinstein NDA – in Dublin. Details here.
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Absolutely right clogging up the prison system madness
@tara tevlin: only way to stop the, criminality,and death & destruction caused by illegal drug trade is to end the demand for drugs. Making possession legal will only tempt more people to use drugs, thus increases stress on health system & increases the need for criminal supply. Already enough burden in health system as it is including alcohol. Pandering to selfish morons who want to risk life for a high because they’re too weak to exist in the real world is not the answer.
@Mike Carson: And how is that going?
@Mike Carson: “morons”? many high-achieving, self-made millionaires have used illegal drugs, several are household names. We can’t afford to stop people using drugs. Where is the money to come from? There must be over 100,000 illegal drug users in Ireland. If they were legal we could tax them and give that revenue to the health services. We’d also save on police and legal costs.
@tara tevlin: there is nobody in prison for personal possession. Indeed, I’d imagine the numbers even prosecuted are minimal compared to back in the day. Even so, it should be decriminalised.
@Mike Carson: “selfish m0rns who want to risk life for a high because they’re too weak to exist in the real world”. What an utterly ignorant comment. The drug of choice for corporate high-earning and high-position individuals is cocaine, anyone who’s ever worked in an office will tell you that, and plenty of hard-working taxpayers smoke cannabis for the same reasons people go to the pub every weekend.
@Mike Carson: your right mike….we should be like that country that has no drugs or ppl that want them.
What is that country’s name again?
@Tricia G: not great because we pander to the poor creatures doing drugs. Cut off supports for users. Let them die from ODs and contaminated drugs. Stop enabling demand & the business of drugs would stop.
@Melanie Keane: I know that too well. Let them suffer too. More raids in high profile events to snub it out. Make the use of drugs illegal. Name and shame those caught. More high profile the better. Zero tolerance for people from all walks of life. Legalise end use will just cause more criminality & encourage even more to use because it will be perceived as acceptable.
@SYaxJ2Ts: nope. More prison for users. If the customer base for drugs is smaller then the business of illegal drug trade will become no viable. Covid proved that. Cocaine couldn’t be shifted parties were at a low. Demand is the issue not supply.
@Tomaldo: tax would only end up being squandered on health services like with alcohol abuse. The costs on rehab and the fallout would outweigh the tax benefit. Only irresponsible fools would want to legalise drugs like cocaine never mind the criminality in getting those drugs to the street. End demand and in the long run the better part of humanity will thrive.
@Edward Vetjam: Singapore
@Mike Carson: And do you consider any distinction between the likes of cocaine and cannabis? If not, then your whole argument is irrelevant.
@Mike Carson: So, going by your logic (or lack thereof) Alcohol (an extremely dangerous and destructive drug) should be made illegal?
@Mike Carson: You’ve commented 6 times now with absolute drivel. If you want to go live somewhere with the kind of regime you suggest then off you go. I hope you find your paradise. Meanwhile the rest of us here live in the real world.
@Mike Carson: I love the way you say “would and will”, when you’re talking about the future. May I use your crystal ball, I want to get the winning lottery numbers.
@Mike Carson: They executed someone in Singapore last August for trafficking, so obviously it doesn’t prevent it there. Thailand also has the death penalty for it but I know from personal experience, people still buy and sell drugs in that country.
@Mike Carson: Singapore has several thousand incarcerated for drugs.
Prohibition has never worked, and there are countless examples to prove that.
The US has about 4% of the world’s population, and about 20% of the world’s incarcerated.
How’s that been working out?
It’s great for the legal industry though.
Now, a personal question.
Why do you think you have a right to tell other how to lead their lives?
This state used to think it could tell us what we could read (banning books it deemed inappropriate), what we could watch (banning films), who we could have sex with, and even contraception.
What is it with the authoritarian streak in some people?
How about just living your own life, and leaving others to do the same?
@Mike Carson: If that were possible there would not be a problem.
Alcohol is one of the most dangerous drugs, nicotine one of the most addictive, caffeine the most commonly used.
Cannabis has a death rate of ZERO.
The way to stop the criminality is to get all drug supply out of criminal hands and into licensed retailers or medical channels depending on the drug.
@Mike Carson: we don’t have enough prison spaces for real criminals so where are these magic prison spaces gonna come from?
@Melanie Keane: I don’t because it the same criminality driving the drug. People are killed over it and by using it. Alcohol & refined sugar would never be legalised if they were just invented in today. Enough is enough. Cant take down suppliers so end demand for their product. Illegal Drug users from all walks of life are a burden on civilised society time to stop protecting & enabling them.
@Mike Carson: The prison capacity in Ireland is about 4,500 and we’re full to the brim. You want to lock up over 100lk users. Where are the numerous billions going to come from to implement that. We’re still waiting for Thornton Hall to be built.
@Mike Carson: Thought so. Irrelevant drivel.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: People like Mike here who are too weak to exist in the real world like the authoritarian regime, they don’t have to think so much. You only need read his rants here to see that.
@Mike Carson:
Prison doesn’t treat addiction and only creates barriers for recovering addicts to renewer society.
I would go further and make some drugs we have illegal today be prescribe in very controlled way.
Make so a herion addict can go to his doctor to seek help…
@Mike Carson: that’s not what has happened in any place where it had been done. Portugal has seen decreased drug usage, drastic reduction in crime, and lots of Pele in rehab etc…
Decriminalisation works wonders.
There will always be people who want to use drugs. There have always been people who want to use drugs.
Pushing moral arguments into what should be a personal choice (to use or not to) is contrary to the concept of personal freedom. Neither you nor I should have a say in what others put in their bodies.
Removing the stigma gets more people to seek out help if they have a problem, as well a not having to fear a prison term.
@Mike Carson: Can say the exact same thing about the judiciary system tho… Show me a pothead that’s ‘risking their lives’… you won’t be able, that’s not important tho eh
@Mike Carson: It really is astonishing that anyone would believe that the war on drugs has failed because it has not been warry enough.
@Mike Carson: Are you suggesting that users of Alcohol (and refined sugar) be criminalized? Do you believe such a measure would ultimately result in an end to all demand for such drugs over a long enough time frame? Historical records of such measures (e.g. US Prohibition in the 1920′s and 30′s) shows them to have failed miserably, resulting in an increase in alcohol consumption, an increase in organized crime with courts and prison systems stretched to breaking point.
@Mike Carson: Do you beat your kids too?
@Mike Carson: god love you Mike, you sound like a proper misguided individual.
@Mike Carson: name one society in the history of humanity that’s ever made that work.
Singapore has the death penalty for drug dealers and locks up drug addicts in prison.
It is currently locking up 3000 a year. That number is growing. Not shrinking.
Because you can’t rest away drugs. Or alcohol. Addiction is healthcare issue. Not law enforcement. Being sick isn’t a crime.
And btw we don’t have a public mental healthcare system. Most addicts start by self medicating. Because they don’t have access to appropriate help.
We’re a thousand steps away from having proper mental healthcare for everyone in Ireland. Drug use will continue apace, and accelerate, as it has in every country that’s followed YOUR suggestions.
Cop on.
@Conrad Stapletwin: to late to make it illegal Just because alcohol is legal does not mean it should be ok to add more problems to society like cocaine and weed. You don’t see too many from Diageo murdering their competition to push their wares? Seems people forget the criminality behind their bag of white powder or weed and the lives lost just so selfish pr1ks can grab a quick high.
@Mike Carson: What a load of rubbish. I’ve smoked weed, never became a coke or heroin user.
If you care so much about addiction. Maybe talk about alcohol and what that does to people.
@Chris O’Brien: Most addicts are their by choices they make. Look at people with mental health issues that don’t turn to drugs. Legalisation of drugs is just encouraging more to take up drug use because it will be deemed acceptable. Less time and care for addicts, let the rot by their own hand or better yet let their own family help them. Ireland and europe is soft on criminals. More deterrent than encouragement for users and supply will dry up.
@Mike Carson: Mike. Or whatever your name is. You have no idea about what you are talking about. Live the life, or f&&K off.
@Tomaldo: agh yes, let’s free it up to all because Leo needs the money… Doh!!!
@Melanie Keane: nope, anyone with any drugs in possession at 3 years in prison would get rid of any problematic dealings. Would You chance it?
@Tomaldo: Singapore authorities would like to talk to you, flagged!
@Jack Dermody: they already can on the dublin quays, makes very little difference…
@Mike Carson: “You don’t see too many from Diageo murdering their competition to push their wares”
That’s because Alcohol is legal, Mike. There’s no need for Diageo to kill anyone. It’s illegality that results in criminality. It’s a vicious cycle.
You’d see the same outcome if virtually any of the other substances mentioned were legalized, regulated and taxed – less crimimality, less killing, less tax revenue being wasted on extraneous policing, court cases, prisons etc. Tax money that could then be used to fund a health-led approach to dealing with addiction in our society.
Do you see the flaw in your logic now?
@Declan Doherty: In the real world you talk of, possessing of banned substances is illegal. Innocent children are killed so selfish pr1ks can get a high. Maybe you should go experience life in the countries where these drugs are produced. I’m sure you fit in well with the execution squads and cartel enforcers.
@Tomaldo: Would make you think twice about doing it wouldn’t it. Man deserved his punishment. I don’t see you crying about all the innocents caught up in cartel wars.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: If only the “poor unfortunate” drug users would do the same instead of robbing for their next fix or leaving dirty needles on trains for so innocent child to jab their finger on. No matter what your standing in life, if you use drugs your enabling murder and death, or do the lives of innocents caught up in cartel wars not matter just so you can life you life wired of you feeble brain?
@Conrad Stapletwin: So, Just because one damaging drug is legal we should legalise them all? Maybe if euthanasia becomes legal we can legalise other forms of murder? If we limit end use we limit the need to produce, It’s far better to discourage use of all recreational narcotics.
Addiction services are already over run. Legalising use will only create more addicts and more strain on health services. But selfish users can’t see past own nose then expect tax payers to pick up their tab. Maybe injection sites in every small town a village might be an answer. So what could possibly go wrong with adding cocaine fueled nuts loose on top of the already problematic anti social drinkers in towns and cities on a saturday. Sure it will be great craic.
@Tricia G: Fatuous remark …
@Tricia G: He is right ffs, god your view on EVERYTHING is so far off.
@Melanie Keane: And how does what he said contradict that? People who cant cope turn to drugs. There is just one problem with that: It makes everything worse. Much, much worse.
@Mike Carson: How do you “eliminate end use”? The methods you’re proposing don’t work and have been proven not to work time and time again.
Do you have a better suggestion other than ban everything? On the one hand you say “stop the killing” and on the other you say “let them die”. Which is it, Mike?
@Todd Hebert: Very few addicts want to seek help, they cant imagine a world where they arent numb. It only happens when they hit rock bottom, which is usually arrest or hospitalization. Very few are just going to decide to stop using. As for prison, its not always for possession, its also for what they will do to get the money for the drugs, like theft or prostitution.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Do you know how many children are in the care of the state because their selfish, messed up parents cant get off heroin?
@Tomaldo: And you know what will cancel that extra tax revenue? the INCREASE in people coming in with drug related health issues.
@Mike Carson: Laughable statement. If alcohol was illegal now EXACTLY the same would happen with suppliers trying to outdo each other. Except a lot more people would die from alcohol related illness than now. Alcohol is literally a poison pushed by big business. Cannabis in different forms can be a medicine regardless of what the current bs Irish stance is. I wish to feck when my Granddad had Parkinson’s that i knew the positive effect that cannabis would have had on him because i would have went to any dealer (which i would never normally do) and got it for him and made him take it somehow. God rest his soul. Because i know 100% it would have helped him. And given him comfort and respite from the tremors.
@Pauline Gallagher: Are you speaking on behalf of all addicts the world over?
I know plenty of people that were once addicts and didn’t need to hit rock bottom to realise it and overcome it. A crass generalisation on your part.
@Mike Carson: name and shame people who have an addiction? Does that actually sound sensible to you? Addiction is classified as a disease by the world health organisation and while I have reservations about making drugs legal, as a person in recovery in myself, I also know that throwing people into prison because of their addiction is of zero help or advantage to anyone and just makes it more likely they will progress on to more hardcore drugs whilst in prison.and why would you cut someone off? What help is that? People have to want to stop, you cutting them off with your marvellous plans here, will not work. You clearly haven’t a clue what your on about and clearly have never suffered from or had any one close to you suffer from addiction. Nobody wants to be an addict, it is not laziness or lack of wanting to stop, they can’t stop. Can’t stand people like you, if you get cancer you get chemo, there is no cure for addiction but yet you sit up there on your high horse judging people with it. All I have is NA or AA but I’ll never be rid of my addiction, it’s with me for life. Maybe try have a clue what your on about before spouting more of your nonsense.
@Mike Carson: a slippery slope
@Conrad Stapletwin: he hasnt got an ounce of logic judging by his comments. No one with a modicum of sense would agree with his drivel. More than likely trolling to get a reaction from people
@Mike Carson: what a horrible comment to make. I lost my sister to heroin. Years ago in NYC when I lost a baby by ectopic & had major surgery, only marijuana got me through the pain. My ex used it for recreational purposes, same way that other people smoke tobacco, vape, drink alcohol etc. I tried coke & crystal meth but they were different. I see nothing wrong with cannabis, the benefits outweigh anything else. Having chronic pain now & the amount of pain killers that I am prescribed on a daily basis are doing me more harm than smoking a few joints. Without painkillers, I can’t function. I Legalising some drugs anyway would cut out the criminal selling element & also earn revenue which could be used for housing, health etc. And many people OD cos of bad drugs.
@Mike Carson: So when your claims are shown to be nonsense, you try to deflect?
The murder and other crimes you reference are only happening *because* drugs are illegal.
Because of people like you.
*You* are the cause of this suffering.
@Pauline Gallagher:
“@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Do you know how many children are in the care of the state because their selfish, messed up parents cant get off heroin?”
And why are they on heroin in the first place?
They are on heroin because drugs are illegal.
And when they tried pot, they got them off the same people who supply heroin.
And because there are no controls of any kind on the type, strength and nature of these drugs.
People like you, Pauline Gallagher, implemented Prohibition in the States. Which led to the rise of the organised crime gangs that supplied alcohol, and now drugs.
Prohibition of alcohol was a failure.
Prohibition of drugs is a failure.
People like you, Pauline Gallagher, are the cause of any children being in care due to the drug use of their parents.
People like you.
@Pauline Gallagher:
“@Tomaldo: And you know what will cancel that extra tax revenue? the INCREASE in people coming in with drug related health issues.”
How to tell the world that you’re an idiot…
As legal drugs can be made subject to quality controls, then the user will not be taking Beelzebub only know what shite.
And the number of those presenting at Emergency departments will reduce.
There will be tax revenue from legal sales that will increase state revenue.
There will be cost reductions in the legal system, in policing, in the courts, in the prison service and in the probation service.
There will be gains in all of society as the legal industry can focus on actual crimes, bringing those levels down.
Cop on to yourself.
@Conrad Stapletwin: Do you know plenty of people who were addicts, real hardcore addicts, and they all overcame it? really? Once an addict, always an addict. You dont just overcome it.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Lol PEOPLE LIKE ME? I am the reason? im to blame that complete strangers take to heroin and lose their kids? Im to blame. Me. J.F.C you are hilarious, really. And another humdinger, people use heroin and become addicts BECAUSE its illegal. BECAUSE. WHAT? So they are all addicted because theyre illegal?? what?? your argument is so convoluted, you’re now actually contradicting yourself.
@Mike Carson: If you’re so concerned about “innocents caught up in cartel wars” why don’t you support a change in law instead of judging users on their lack or morality
@Mike Carson: euthanasia is consensual, murder is not. Apples and oranges
@Mike Carson: So Mr. Carson, how do you propose we find out who the drug users are, in order that we can eliminate the demand end of the market, drug use by it’s nature tends secretive, people don’t tend to be open about it except to those who they trust, like friends or a particular in group so to speak, Unless the signs of drug use are obvious, like with say, chronic, crack or meth addicts. It’s not always outwardly obvious, you could be talking to someone who just smoked a joint and you wouldn’t even know. Do you propose mandatory testing of the entire population in order to flush out the “users” and what then, how does the state go about punishment? do you propose summary execution, or perhaps life imprisonment, maybe amputation, there could well be hundreds of thousands of individuals caught up in this. Then there would be the logistics of testing the entire population, the civil liberties issues involved and so on, something tells me that you haven’t thought this through fully and are just sounding off some ill informed nonsense, tell me are all your opinion this black and white?
@Pauline Gallagher: “Will” cancel that extra tax revenue, where do you and Mike get your crystal balls.
@Pauline Gallagher: I know many people at various stages of heroin/opioid addiction. Many of which are no longer addicted and living a normal life. Some continue to use heroin and live relatively functional lives. Others are struggling with their addiction – some seeking help, but there’s not enough adequate services available to them in Ireland. The rest are sadly, no longer with us.
I also know many people addicted to alcohol and the same set of varying circumstances apply to them also.
“Once an addict, always an addict” is an unconsidered lazy generalisation. Your contempt and lack of compassion for those suffering with addiction is reprehensible.
@Conrad Stapletwin: I know a thing or two about addiction, let me tell you, and I know how it never leaves you. I know how your brain is permanently altered. Over the counter painkillers are legal and they nearly destroyed my life. I have relapsed countless times. So THERES THAT. I will always be an addict, just the way an alcoholic will always be an alcoholic. You know NOTHING ABOUT IT. It defines who you are and no matter HOW LONG you stay clean, there is ALWAYS that risk of relapse. Why make it easier? why enable it to be EASIER to access pills? Look how easy it is to get codeine. Look at the opioid crisis in the United States. I have compassion I am also a realist. GOODBYE.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Have you ever been an addict?? have you??? unless you have, you can f off talking about something you know NOTHING ABOUT.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: and another thing, You think all those people who come in to emergency are in because they took stuff laced with rat poison or whatever?? they came in, because they overdosed. That will happen no matter how pure a drug is. Opioid crisis in the US, legal drugs, pure painkillers, thousands of deaths, major lawsuits against pharma companies because these patients were never told how ADDICTIVE they are. This is about ADDICTION. You dont get high from rat poison, you get high from OPIOIDS. You want pharma to get even richer by manufacturing hard drugs for recreational use?? are you off YOUR head?? get real.
@Helen O REGAN: Do you honestly think that revenue would go toward those things? really? revenue is not the same as profit. And people do not just OD because of bad drugs, they OD BECAUSE they took drugs. I am very sorry for your loss.
@Mike Carson: you’re on the wrong side of history, and whats good for the broken healthcare system. this WILL be a positive step and you just summed up a load of the ignorance and fearmongering that prevails
@John P Quinn: There should be capital punishment for clear and obvious trolling.
Have you nothing better to do? No need to answer that.
@Pauline Gallagher: People like you are the reason addicts and alcoholics struggle to get help. People can and do recover, with no thanks to disgusting mindsets like yours. Probably never left your tiny town in your life to meet someone in recovery. Do us all a favour and stay there.
@Michael O’Neill: Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;
@Melanie Keane: hear hear
Doing a disgraceful job in the public sector and swanning off into another public paid job should be criminalised.
@Cuddy Ballyfin Death: Decriminalising is worth a look at within reasonable limits. However, if it were to happen – random drug testing on roadsides for drivers and the permission for employees to be tested needs to be ramped up big time. Caught under the influence at work = sackable on the spot offence; and for drivers = off the road for 2 years.
@Laois Weather: If we haven’t allowed employers to test employees for alcohol then we should not create a new special permission for anything else.
@Laois Weather: the thing is with testing on the roadside cannabis can stay in ur system for up to 90 days…. You can smoke once and still test positive for 30 days… testing on the roadside isn’t efficient.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: How can employers deal with a drunk employee then?
@Rebecca Platte: Is there no way of establishing ‘under the influence’? A measurement perhaps?
@Laois Weather: showing up to work on drugs or high is ALREADY a sackable offence in most companies.
@Laois Weather: Do we currently permit employers to test employees?
@Laois Weather: You call the police if you suspect a crime has been committed (operating machinary etc.)
Otherwise you evaluate an employee the same way it’s always been done.
Being drunk at (many) work places isn’t a crime. Performance and behaviour can be evaluated. Witness statements taken.
You really have a worrying authoritarian streak, you realise that, right?
@Laois Weather: wow aren’t we the little warrior
@Laois Weather: The best way is some kind of performance test, something more sophisticated than walk along this line but something that measures fitness to drive directly instead of measuring levels of drugs.
@Laois Weather: “Is there no way of establishing ‘under the influence’? A measurement perhaps?”
No actually, the presence of any given amount of THC does not in itself indicate impairment. An amount that might floor one person, an irregular smoker say, would probably have little effect on a regular user.
@Mr Inbetween: or dont sack a person for having cannabis in their system. it should be illegal to do so
Just legalise, regulate and tax green in the first instance.
Blazing an occasional wholesome bowl is a wonderful thing.
@honey badger: Isn’t it brilliant when you can get a weekend in Amsterdam for the same price as a couple of nights out in Dublin :)
@Melanie Keane: Depends how much weed you buy and whether you patronise the RLD.
@Melanie Keane: Just be careful driving home as the Gardaí will be quite happy to prosecute you, take your license and see you named and shamed in the paper, all for driving home from the airport while completely sober. People are being done 3/4 days after smoking a joint in this backward little nation of ours.
@Declan Doherty: Its OK, I’ll just tell them I identify as Dutch and maybe they’ll send me back!
@Declan Doherty: Ask the Dr’s dealing with this U will get a bigger & true picture
@Sheila McNulty: And yet so many doctors favour decriminalisation / legalisation.
@Sheila McNulty: Sure ask the people who only see the problems and never see the vast majority who do not have problems. While you are at it ask paramedics about the dangers of driving,.
San Francisco and Portland, Oregon residents wish they could turn back the clock on decriminalisation.
The cities are ruined.
@Paul: quote your source, those cities were ruined long before legalisation.
@Peter Boyle: San Francisco is a lovely city, one of my favourites.
@Paul: I live in Oregon and everyday witness a failed system where drugs are legal.
Voters here want to revoke the legalization.
@Mike: drugs are not legal in oregan what are you talking out? Can you import a kilo of heroin and sell it in the local shop? There’s a massive difference not locking up people for using and being fully blown legal. Surely someone who lives in the state would be able to tell the difference
@Paul: yes stayed in both cities got a lot worse
@Patrick Coffey: Are you sure you’re not thinking of Dublin?
Or Limerick?
According to the commenters here, both of those – and more – have become much worse over the past several years.
And drugs are still illegal here.
@Paul: they were fecked long before that, been there way before legalisation and saw special needs and Down syndrome homeless people and when I spoke to taxi drivers and the likes about it, they said it was their own fault. Those cities are ruined, drugs legal or not don’t make any difference
@Paul: of course this isn’t true. What IS true is that LEGAL DRUGS – opioids – were prescribed for over a decade with almost no regulation. The country was flooded with opiod addiction as a result. Now those same opiods have flooded the illegal drug markets and are creating vast homelessness, death and wasted resources.
None of that has anything to do with anything that’s happening in Ireland.
And I assume you know this.
Which means you’ve just lied to promote a failed ideology.
Which means you DON’T CARE about victims, just pushing an agenda.
Which means decent people everywhere would be right to ignore you.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Dublin isnt worse because of criminalization of drugs, its worse because there are strung out addicts everywhere, hassling people for money to buy drugs. Addiction causes you to lose your home, your family, your friends, your job, your life. Legalizing it just legitimizes that lifestyle, a life of sitting in a sleeping bag begging for money, a lifestyle of doing whatever it takes to get another hit, because thats what their life has become, thats all they care about.
@Paul: disclaimer@: those cities, much like Dublin is heading, are in ruins because of socio economic ruination, particularly leaving poor vulnerable people to get worse just as IRELAND does its own. absolutely NADA to do with their legalisation of pot
@Paul: yeah the ruin of San Francisco has been horrendous and symptomatic of the decline in America this past 2 decades – but I think you’ll find that it is not directly related decriminalising no matter how many time your spin that – and besides Ireland needs to grow up and manage our own country without picking worst examples paying attention to irrelevant places that are not comparable in any way – we have had a citizen assembly and now we are setting up a committee – I don’t think there’s much chance of us turning into Amsterdam any time soon to be honest
Who voted in the Citizens Assembly?
@Tony Humphreys: 99 random citizens who were invited to take part.
@Melanie Keane: How do you know it was a random invitation?
@liam: lay off the bifter. Paranoid much?
@Tony Humphreys: 99% skypointing Nualas
@Tony Humphreys: 99 random citizens but some of them were unhappy with the vote on cannabis and they called it out at the time. The voting system wasn’t explained and was rushed meaning the very close result on legalisation was questionable. The entire assembly only focused on problematic drug use so it was skewed to favour the status quo which makes the close result even more remarkable. It’s time to legalise cannabis.
@liam: The news, if it’s to be believed.
@Declan Doherty: Not to mention nearly all (if not all) of the “consultants” they had speaking to them all had agendas against recreational drug use.
@Melanie Keane: I’m Sure the Consultants know what they are talking about they are at the coalface of what is happening in this country regarding drug use
@Sheila McNulty: The cannabis risk alliance are a small group of doctors who choose to ignore the research and evidence. They dont offer anything constructive when all they can offer is more of what we have. An utterly failed policy.
@Declan Doherty: BigPharma don’t want anyone self-medicating, they don’t make profits from alternative medicine. Why else would they be so afraid of a little plant?
@Melanie Keane: well said, how many who aren’t remotely informed on here in fact exclude on purpose the powerful pharma lobby who regressively object to the plant
He left some mess behind & walked straight into the next Govt funded role, only in broken Ireland.
All drugs are not created equal. We need to do away with the catch all term drugs and talk about individual psychoactive substances. Crack and cannabis are not in the same ball park, and neither are crystal meth and MDMA. Some drugs should be legalised for production, sale, and purchase other drugs like heroin, crystal meth,fentanyl should not be stigmatised, and illegal trade cracked down on.
@Tom D: should be stigmatised I meant
@Tom D: Agree that the terminology throughout this whole assembly has been poor. Putting cannabis into the same category as cocaine and heroine makes no sense whatsoever.
@Tom D: It seems to me that cannabis is the gateway to other more powerful drugs.
Removing cannabis from the control of criminals would remove that gateway.
Yet another reason to legalise.
@Melanie Keane: cannabis is in the same category as them in the USA still. It’s still a scheduled drug even tho most states have it legal but it’s not federally legal.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Did you know one of the first documented uses of the term “gateway drug” was actually about nicotine and cigarettes? (Denise Kandel 1970s). It was a recycled propaganda term originally used to stigmatize and marginalize Blacks and Mexicans in the Unites States since the 40s when they brought their own drugs from their home countries into America. It was never based on fact or public welfare. Kandel said in her report: “When I did the analysis, I found that there was a certain sequence that young people seem to be following when they got involved in drugs. They did not start with marijuana, but they started with drugs that are legal for adults in the society, such as beer and wine and cigarettes, other forms of alcohol.”
@Melanie Keane: I didn’t.
But I do know that the ‘war on drugs’ in the US was conceived as a way to control the Black population, to criminalise those ‘of colour’ by the US Republican Party, as it was though that the users were mostly among that segment of society.
(And the US criminal justice system could turn a blind eye to whites anyway.)
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: go into any pub toilet and you can see what the gateway drug is. A stoned person has never never offered me hard drugs. I’ve lost count of how many drunk people have offered me lines or pills in a pub. If we wanna go down the route of “gateway” drugs then let’s start by banning alcohol, because that’s the number 1 drug by a country mile that people take before hitting the hard stuff
@Martin Mongan: My lasagnes and coc au vin would not be the same with the auld glass of wine.
Ban vapes, they are a gateway to heroin
@Rex Tynan: Its an ever decreasing circle
@Rex Tynan: Ban water.
It’s a gateway to alcohol.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: water is vital, vapes are not, the amount of people in hospitals on ventilators due to vapes is shocking
@Rex Tynan: sources?
Just heard on the news… the Government is to set up a committee to examine the findings of this committee… only in Ireland…
@Gerry Madden: Do we need a committee to determine the makeup of the committee that will examine the findings of the committee?
The amount of people in drug rehabilitation for heroin and cocaine abuse because of vapes is shocking, Joe Duffy should dedicate an entire show to it
@Rex Tynan: No he shouldn’t, he would make those recovering well to definitely go back on them.
Shame on our FFG government last night in the Dail voting not to join in the International Criminal court case againist Israel thus giving them more cover to keep exterminating and Maiming the innocent Palestine people is 270000 dead not enough ,70000 badly injured no healthcare ,can this government go any lower and are israel donating to the FFG parties as they do in Usa and Uk for total control!!!
Also shame on Fine gael European Mps last week on the European ceasefire vote!!
@Kevin O Brien: Agreed!
This brings more shame on us, and our nation.
Moved to Michigan where cannabis is legal. Got diagnosed with arthritis and it’s helped me so much! Can get an 1/8th for as low as $10 ($12 with tax), a gram of wax for as low of $15, edibles for as low as $10 and so on.
@Rebecca Platte: the one thing I will say is that medical cannabis is basically non existent over here. Medical and Recreational were legalized the same time but many dispensaries don’t do medical anymore.
Even tho it’s legal it ain’t federally legal so you can still catch charges.
@Rebecca Platte: so to control your pain you’ve become an addict? Well done!!!
@peter willekens: nope I haven’t. I barely take edibles and I don’t smoke. They wanted to give me a Percocet and that’s more addictive than weed
@peter willekens: where in her comment did she say she is now addicted to anything?
@Rebecca Platte: The varieties are important too, some parkinsins sufferers react differently to different strains and forms, so shaking stops completely with some while with others it can make it temporarily worse. Important to know what you’re getting where cannabis is concerned, need to know all the details, grow medium, nutrients etc.
@Thesaltyurchin: totally agree. Legally we know everything in Michigan from the strain, type, growing technique etc. it’s very regulated.
Ireland will deeply regret this decisions for years and years. More and more people will turn into drugs, more and more people will turn away jobs etc, more and more people will clogg hospitals and services, and, of xoirse5, immigrants will take the blame for the lack of services but in the end it’s your regular Paddy and his kids who do the damage
@Chris: So like it is now with criminalisation ? Do you not see the gaping hole in your argument or do you just choose to ignore it ?
@Declan Doherty: A big existing problem can always get worse, and how exactly will decriminalizing drugs make everything better? Do you think that drug addiction will stagnate or decrease or increase? I think it will be the latter.
@Pauline Gallagher: You clearly don’t understand what’s being discussed here. Listen to the experts talk about why criminalisation is so harmful to both drug consumers and society and I’ll be happy to debate that with you. But I don’t have time to explain the basics if you haven’t even attempted to educate yourself on the topic.
I’d say legalise and regulate weed. I reckon it would be good for the economy with tax revenue and tourism, not to mention the people that would medically benefit from
It’s use.
@Andy Preneur: Amsterdam here we come…… But they are wishing for a total turnaround…
@peter willekens: Ohhhhh no their not! lol
He’s right, you know.
@Tricia G: no he is not, as Dr ‘s dealing with the fall out, the people at the coalface who see the terrible results of drugs if they were decriminalised what happens the people driving under the influence of drugs which seem to be a daily occurance now are they free to go on their way, crazy thinking
@Sheila McNulty: For starters, most professionals working in addiction services advocate for decriminalisation. And secondly, how do you know we’ll see terrible results if we decriminalise. We already see the terrible results under criminalisation. And lastly, driving under the influence of any drug is illegal. Here in Ireland we even go a step further and convict drivers who are completely sober at the time of testing but have minuscule traces of cannabis metabolites in their blood. How much further and draconian would you like it to be ?
@Sheila McNulty: Your “argument” is nonsensical.
Driving under the Influence is a crime and would remain a crime whether it’s alcohol (currently legal) or drug induced (both legal and illegal).
And “Dr ‘s” mostly support decriminalisation to facilitate easier access to those requiring, needing or wanting help without fear of criminality.
@Tricia G: imagine if we increase the amount of people needing help by decimalising it. It will only lead to more weak minded sheep taking up drug use. If you use drugs you should be forced to deal with consequences. You made a choice taxpayer should have to bail you with health care. Enough addicts and Alcos without adding more.
@Mike Carson: yawn
@Declan Doherty: Yea, just imagine a supply of quality controlled drugs.
You know, where the content is known.
And not mixed in with all sorts of shite, including poisons and highly addictive substances.
Which do you think would lead to a reduction in the need for medical care?
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: @Sheila McNulty: @Declan Doherty: Oops!
The Journal comment control struck again.
That last comment was intended as a response to
@Mike Carson: Most people who take drugs aren’t problematic and never become addicted. You’re spouting propaganda style nonsense that was debunked by the experts 20 years ago. People with your mindset are holding everyone else back and the sick thing is, the few who do become addicted and actually need help are dying as a result. Your inability to keep up with the rest of us or to educate yourself on the topic makes you part of the problem. Society needs to move on and away from the nonsense you spout but we have to wait for you and people like you to either die off or catch up. If you actually cared about the lives you claim to care so passionately about, you would educate yourself.
@Declan Doherty: spot on
@Tricia G: Sheila means it would become more common place than it is already. Obviously.
@Pauline Gallagher: there is absolutely no peer reviewed proof of this in action. keeping them all illicit, particularly marijuana, enables criminality to thrive and also illnesses. Hence I support decriminalisation, legalising pot and injection centres. Educate yourself
Good tax to be made on it too
@Shane C: it would be taxed to high heaven, black market will still be cheaper
@Rex Tynan: If one of the purposes of legalising was to remove it from the control of criminal gangs, thus removing it as a gateway to other drugs those gangs supply, then making it more expensive that the illegally supplied cannabis would be self-defeating.
Also, the content of the legal cannabis would be known, and subject to quality controls.
The content of illegally supplied cannabis could contain anything, which would be another reason to avoid it.
@Rex Tynan: In Washington the tax on cannabis is 25% from producer to processor, 25% from processor to retailer and 25% from retailer to customer. Add in the sales tax and 40% of the retail price is tax. With all that it is still a fraction of the price of illegally supplied cannabis.
The reality is that cannabis costs less than a Euro a gram to grow if you pay commercial rates for premises, decent salaries to employees and taxes on profits.
Organised crime cannot compete, they need far higher profits in order to operate.
Competition is a powerful mechanism for driving down prices.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: ball ox, people will use whatever is cheapest
@Rex Tynan: Then it is up to the state to make it the cheapest option, if you are correct.
But there are a lot of people who buy German cars, even though they are not the cheapest.
We have had Malaysian made cars here. They were cheap. And russian. I don’t see many any more.
People will buy cheap, when it works.
Most people avoid junk, even when cheap.
But, tell you what.
You can go to the drug dealers to get your cannabis, while most of the rest of us buy from reliable sources.
That would give most a known quality product, while you can stick with the dodgy stuff with poisons and Odin knows what. And while you are consuming the resources of the healthcare system, all those who now do so due to dodgy illegal supplies will not be.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: you do realise that this is Ireland, the most expensive country for everything?
@Rex Tynan: And?
You would prefer people continuing to consume products with no controls on contents, content that might be harmful or addictive, but also with unknown strength?
Or we could give people sources of quality controlled substances that will not lead to addiction or require hospital care due to harmful content.
Which is the common sense thing to do?
There are no disadvantages to legalising cannabis, except to the legal industry which makes a fine living off all if us because it is unlawful.
There are numerous disadvantages to making it illegal.
@Rex Tynan: Black market in Ireland is the 2nd most expensive in the world in 2023 for weed :
https://cfah.org/cannabis-price-index/
So regulated and legalised couldn’t be much more than black market. Plus the quality, variety of choice of strengths etc would be way better
Put it too a vote.
@Thesaltyurchin: Now there’s a plebiscite I could get behind.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: excellent word and usage. I’m going to have to steal it.
@Thesaltyurchin: failed in New zealand, despite a majority for legalisation.
“a strong call of action to the Government that the State needs to take a far more comprehensive and coherent approach to drug use in Ireland” and “comprehensive health-led approach”… This is just fluff. Meaningless fluff. Without concrete actions, nothing will change. The government will just shelf the report and do nothing of substance.
Zombieland on its way
@Tadhg Kelleher: on its way? you should take a trip into any community in Dublin or into the city centre and take a stroll down the boardwalk
@Tadhg Kelleher: It’s become a topical sport called the Dope Olympics (Instagram), obviously associated with very dangerous lab-based drugs like Fentanyl. statuesque smack-heads seem to drape in incredibly contorted ways. Points are given for style and the ability to remain completely still.
Do we decriminalise the low level theft and other behaviours associated with addicts too or just the possession of small amounts of drugs? Not sure the public will support if the answer to the first question is yes. It is not always the drug possession that criminalises it’s the other behaviours.
@Paul Fahey: These are two different things.
Alcohol use is not unlawful.
But driving under the influence is.
As it battery (assault), for those who might indulge in a bit of a Donnybrook while intoxicated.
Making cannabis legal does not make any crimes perpetrated by a cannabis user legal too. Just as the non cannabis user would be subject to those same laws.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: when asked today the Minister specifically said “serious crimes“ will not be ignored and that we must stop criminalising addicts.
Take a trip to LA, San Fran, Philly, Portland, Oakland and see the effects of decriminalisation, city’s have turned into war zones
@David Owens: Says the person who has yet to see these places, and gets their info from the wingnut part of the Internet.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: I lived there for 25 years, muppet !
@David Owens: In LA, San Fran, Philly, Portland, Oakland?
Simultaneously, no doubt.
Or did they become crime hot spots after you moved there?
Incidentally, if you have a hankering for crime-ridden cities, then you need to move to some of the ‘Red’ states, which have cities that put those you mention into the penny place.
Here’s a list of the 10 most dangerous cities in the US, from 2022, reported by Forbes and sourced from FBI crime data.
1. St. Louis, Missouri
2. Jackson, Mississippi
3. Detroit, Michigan
4. New Orleans, Louisiana
5. Baltimore, Maryland
6. Memphis, Tennessee
7. Cleveland, Ohio
8. Baton Rouge, Louisiana
9. Kansas City, Missouri
10. Shreveport, Louisiana
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: I lived there u didn’t, now who is getting their info from the internet u whopper lol
@David Owens: Lots of LA have been warzones for the last 30/40 years due to crack epidemics. San Fran has always been at the epicentre of drug use and the problems that come with it since the 60s. Philly, Portland and Oakland have been some of the worst places affected by fentanyl and prescribed opioid use which are well documented. Miami and other parts of Florida were war zones during the 80s due to the explosion in cocaine use. Decriminalisation hasn’t turned them into war zones
@David Owens: If you have a problem with these crime statistics, then you’ll have to take it up with the FBI.
@David Owens: Philadelphia’s inner city has been horrific for a very long time, it hasnt worsened since pot came in. spent a chilling night in an a and e there and we think Ireland’s is reckless. decriminalise and then OUR gangs dont get to own the black market on the plant marijuana. Also I’ve been near Oakland and it like Philly has a working class set of socio economic problems, some wonderful people. Its disingenuous to say that part of California has gone downhill over decriminalisation
@David Owens: *we think Irelands a and e’s are
Things are going too well in Portugal.
@JP: And Spain. Soon Germany.
Look at Colorado, everyone is high, it affects society. The Netherlands is OK, but only cannabis is legal. If just legalising and taxing it is the solution, then why don’t we implement our own Second Amendment and allow people to bear arms as a constitutional right? You can’t just say no to the second amendment and yes to legalising drug, that is a second amendment on drugs. And Heroin kills you, pain and simple.
@J Ven: Tying yourself up in knots with that argument this is Ireland. We don’t have a 2nd amendment and it has nothing to do with this issue.
@Declan Doherty: Of course it does, try to be subjective and listen with an open mind. Hand guns are illegal in Ireland, yet gangs are shooting each other. You could have the same argument by allowing handguns to be purchased, that was there will be a record, who owns what, and who sold it eliminating arms traffickers to operate. This is the argument with drugs legalisation, to make them available with legally regulated sellers eliminating drug traffickers and tampered drugs
@J Ven: any specific studies to support your claim that everyone is high and it affects the society?
@J Ven: Ah Jeez!
Guns were designed for one purpose – to kill.
Why on Earth would any sensible society want itself to be awash with guns. The result is very predictable.
Drugs are used to give pleasure – not kill.
Let’s see if you can spot the difference.
@J Ven: no where in the article or the citizens assembly has anyone mentioned legalising anything?. Its de-criminalising for personal use. Two totally different things but you and some others on here dont seem to be able to grasp that concept
… and you can buy a gun if you really want to.
@J Ven: Hand guns aren’t illegal in Ireland. I own one along with a rifle and a shotgun. All of them are legally licensed. We regulate and control gun ownership just like we regulate and control most drugs, including heroin. Your analogy is not just irrelevant, it’s utterly flawed.
Portland is like a Walking Dead episode
@Paul: I’d take Portland any day over Temple Bar on a Saturday night.
Well I never…common sense being applied!
@damien leen: Being talked about. Never be applied.
Paul Reid made a balls of dealing with the Pandemic & left his HSE post early. His reward is another handy number in a quango!
@conor carroll: Wasn’t it that other spanner than made a hames of the pandemic?
The only thing this state did right – pandemic wise – was the roll out of the 1st vaccine (and its booster, as I recall).
That part was probably under the auspices of Mr Reid.
@conor carroll: The COVID inquiry which will probably cost multi millions, isn’t going to appropriate blame or find anyone guilty, typical Ireland. The legal profession to gain again. Some of them should be jailed for their decisions to let the UK variant in one Christmas, which killed thousands of elderly people, their blood is on the hands of the two leaders at that time.
Anyone seen how this went in West Coast San Fransisco ? Assume being lobbied or big business targeting new markets, how else would the grow their Business’s ?
https://www.investopedia.com/top-canadian-cannabis-companies-by-revenue-4587803
@Declan Gowran: I’m pretty sure the Michigan government made a few million dollars on cannabis tax last year and that’s just Michigan.
Great… Bord Fáilte ‘Cead Mile Fáilte , MDMA, Crack , The Cliffs of Moher , Book of Kells , Mainline Heroin, Knife Crime, O Connell street Zombies , Yeats Grave , The Blarney Stone and being Stoned – it’s all here for you , come and get it …
Citizen’s Assembly? Patronising, PC pseudo ,pretend talking-shop, democratic window dressing for the credulous. Waste of time, money and effort.
Stop kn ack er Israel ba s tards from killing children evert hour of the day
@sleepy joe: one of the biggest exporters of cannabis. made something like 2b from it last year.
So your caught with 10 bags of cocaine,are you dealing or for personal use because you like to bulk buy..could be a bit of a minefield.
@Will Q: that wouldn’t be personal use. One or two baggies not ten
@Will Q: That might well depend on your income. If you’re well paid and average a couple of bags a week you might well buy monthly. If you’re on minimum wage you can’t so you are probably dealing.
Another thought, is the person with a supermarket trolley full of booze dealing alcohol, throwing a party or stocking up for the holidays.
Some drugs like cannabis have considerable health benefits when taken in oil form and should be allowed
@John Reynolds: such a shame they’re purposely keeping it in the same category as crack cocaine and Heroin, etc.
Have a friend who is on Prescribed medication and believe you me, IT’S worse than anything you can get for Personal use on the streets. Time to balance this particular subject. But IF You can get in the Pharmacy and Pay a small amount of TAX on them, I’m all for it!!!
@Mick Hanna: all drugs should be illegal, painkillers included, people should be able to manage pain, it’s mind over matter
“Once in a generation…”
Where he’d get that from?
It’s a wonder he didn’t also feel the hand of history on his shoulder.
OK so what are we going to decriminalise next? Looting of supermarkets etc as in some US states? Maybe we should treat the problem and not the consequences. Do addicts rob, even their own families? Should we investigate the root cause and find the most productive outcome for our family and friends caught in this cycle?
@Chris Swanepoel: If someone steals, then they are doing harm to others, wheter or not their have consumed drugs. That is a crime, and is subject to the laws of the jurisdiction concerned.
If someone indulges in some weed, then that is their own business, or should be.
For years FF said Charlie was the answer to everything!
Whatever about compounding the prison service capacity it will certainly go a another way to annihilate public health services
@Pat Butler: Or reduce the need for healthcare.
Imagine a supply of cannabis with known contents?
Instead of unpredictable strength, and unknown other ingredients which might include poisons or highly addictive substances added to get the user hooked on stronger drugs.
@Pat Butler: wrong, you’re completely wrong.
Drug & alcohol testing in work, why not for welfare recipients?
@Matt D: Are welfare recipients operating heavy machinery?
Or monitoring medicine manufacturing processes?
Or…
What people do on their own time is their own business.
Or, if you want to extend such things to welfare recipients, (which would include you, either now or in the future), then you wont mind if we enter your home at times of our choosing to test you.
(By the way, if you are in receipt of anything from the state, including children’s allowance, then you are in receipt of welfare.)
I fully understand the personal choice point, however people seem to be missing a few things here, mainly class A drugs are not only extremely addictive but they are also very dangerous, people have done some very lethal and illegal stuff while high on drugs !! Things they would normally not do in their usual state of mind, I don’t understand why people need this “high” is it worth ruining your life or maybe even ruining someone else’s life just for the buzz..
@John McG: Ah, but Class A drugs have given us Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds, And She Was, works from Sabbath, Iron Maiden, The Stones, The Doors, Clapton, Bowie, Prince, Velvet Underground, The Stranglers, Fleetwood Mac, Zeppelin, The Floyd, and so many more.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Drugs nearly killed Eric Clapton. His marraige to Patti Boyd was a nightmare for her because of his erratic, drug and drink fueled rages towards her. George Harrison quit drugs the second he saw how sad and pathetic all the jobless, stoner hippies were on Haight Ashbury. Jim Morrison died of an overdose, probably accidental as he hated heroin but that night he took it anyway. John Bonham died aged 32 after inhaling his own vomit. Drugs and alcohol made these figures tragic, not legends. Their music was a result of their talent, not how many lines of coke or liters of vodka they drank. But hey, according to you, its all great because we got a few trippy tunes out of it. You really need to grow up.
@Pauline Gallagher: Pauline opposing drug use like from a moralistic, what is wrong approach is actually logically something that should make you support decriminalisation. My view is mainly about pot, its completely unreasonable to prosecute people for personal amounts of it. Its wrong. Moreover, you can decriminalise people and not have legal coke use
@Melanie Keane: It certainly is. Done it a few times. Great location. Gauchos for a proper steak, then into a canal side cafe for some refreshments!
@honey badger: I’m partial to a bitta bitterballen, kaas and brood myself!
He actually looks half baked in that pic if truth be known
I don’t use them but it’s a good idea for many reasons.
Along with decriminalisation (which is not really good enough but it’s a start) will they be clearing the criminal records of those convicted before legalisation?
@Steve O’Hara Smith.: I would imagine that will come in time.
There would be significant opposition from the Guards, as the more people they have records on the better, as far as they are concerned. And it also allows them to intimidate those with any record.
@Steve O’Hara Smith.: most likely would happen in much the same way as past criminal records for men who have sex with men, as uk and Ireland have done long after social change
@Steve O’Hara Smith.: *you’d imagine
Everyone has them for personal use, even the vanloads.
I don’t drink, smoke, vape or take drugs, but I do feel sorry for those that do
@Rex Tynan: And most of us are really sorry for you.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: why? I don’t need escapism
@Rex Tynan: Because you don;t live in what the rest of us would regard as reality?
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: out of your mind on drugs is living in reality? Interesting version of reality I must say!
Reading the comments here it seems that the vast majority of people don’t understand anything about addiction whatsoever. All illegal drugs should be legalised for possession , picking out just the middle class ones is ridiculous. A health led approach with serious investment is required and taking the approach not why the addiction but why the pain.
Sure, we need more drugs on our streets, not less…. Also give every youngster as many possible opportunities to start using, sure what could go wrong? Responsible youngsters wouldn’t experiment freely anyway wouldn’t they….. You are barking up the wrong tree for bringing in these laws to accommodate the few sick, the few who don’t like the drug alcohol, or the few liberals who just think stoned is the solution to all. Just walk inner city after 10 pm before you actually have a fkin clue you twits, actually, you wouldn’t dare would you, in your bigg glass towers….
A little over 551,000 penalty points issued to drivers last year. Clearly the system is not working so there should be no speed limits imposed. The law should not fine the speeding drivers & should instead concentrate on the car manufacturers.
NOT
@Paul: Are you trying to make some point?
This is a good idea only if the the other supports at put into place at scale to the issue. With the state of the health service and complete lack of mental health services amongst others, needed for this change to succeed. I feel it’s all just going to be a missed opportunity
Just go to every shop and ask ,can I buy RAW
To all the people who thinks it is alright to take drugs. It would be interesting if some of them were hit by a drug driver car and suffered life changing injuries. Our politicans seem to be fond of having taken drugs Lynne Hildegarde Mickey D and Leo.
Ok, this generation can’t have houses, but they can have drugs – so they won’t care
So crime will no longer be crime. How stupid is that
@Michael Larkin: Homosexuality used to be a crime.
Attempting suicide – even being successful – was a crime.
There are many things that were crimes, and should not have been.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Yes but the taking of drugs can have serious & life changing consequences for others not just the drug taker
@Sheila McNulty: So can suicide.
And alcohol consumption.
How did prohibition work out in the States?
Taking drugs that have been subject to quality controls will have far less nasty effects that taking those from criminal gangs that have unknown strengths – possibly leading to overdoses or psychotic episodes – or containing poisons, highly addicting other substances, an Zeus knows what.
Would you prefer our alcohol manufacture and supply to be under the control of criminal gangs, or legal where it is subject to regulation and quality controls?
@Sheila McNulty: not for 99% of recreational users, all these drugs are vastly different, but most don’t want to hear it. Mammies find little Billy with a joint and imagine Skid Row is the next call with heroin for breakfast, the taboo and fear are too great in Ireland for anything to change just yet, we need a few generations to clear out first.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Do you think heroin will become less addictive just because its regulated? Most people can drink responsibly, anyone who decides that heroin is the thing for them already have problems.
@Pauline Gallagher: No of course it won’t but if cannabis is available from a licensed shop then it won’t be coming from someone who would rather sell you heroin for the greater profit.
@Steve O’Hara Smith.: and it might not have glass or any number of weight-gaining substances sprinkled on it.
News just in: they bottled it. the vote for cannabis was rushed and the bunch of sky pointers plus a few common sense heads will now recommend we make a committee to recommend things. the Irish way
Decriminalisation does NOT mean “drugs would remain illegal”! This is nonsensical doublespeak. Again, the focus of the Citizens’ Assembly on Drugs Use is on the 10% of problematic users and the 90% of drugs consumers where there is no harm are ignored. Their rights, their liberty are simply trampled over.
have your say