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THE THREE STILL-unidentified aerial objects shot down by the US in the past week likely had merely a “benign purpose”, the White House has said, drawing a distinction between them and the massive Chinese balloon that earlier traversed the US with a suspected goal of surveillance.
“The intelligence community is considering as a leading explanation that these could just be balloons tied to some commercial or benign purpose,” said White House national security spokesman John Kirby.
Officials also disclosed that a missile fired at one of the three objects, over Lake Huron on Sunday, missed its intended target and landed in the water before a second one successfully hit.
The new details came as the Biden administration’s actions over the past two weeks faced fresh scrutiny in Congress.
First, US fighter jets did not shoot down what officials described as a Chinese spy balloon until after it had crossed much of the United States, citing safety concerns. Then the military deployed F-22 fighters with heat-seeking missiles to quickly shoot down what likely were harmless objects.
Taken together, the actions raised political as well as security questions about whether the Biden administration overreacted after facing Republican criticism for reacting too slowly to the big balloon.
Even as more information about the three objects emerges, questions remain about what they were, who sent them and how the US might respond to unidentified airborne objects in the future.
Still unaddressed are questions about the original balloon, including what spying capabilities it had and whether it was transmitting signals as it flew over sensitive military sites in the United States.
Little is known about the three objects shot down over three successive days, from Friday to Sunday, in part because it has been challenging to recover debris from remote locations in the Canadian Yukon, off northern Alaska and near the Upper Peninsula of Michigan on Lake Huron.
So far, officials have no indication they were part of a bigger surveillance operation along with the balloon that was shot down off the South Carolina coast on 4 February.
“We don’t see anything that points right now to being part of the PRC spy balloon program,” Kirby told reporters, referring to the People’s Republic of China. It’s also not likely the objects were “intelligence collection against the United States of any kind — that’s the indication now”.
No country or private company has come forward to claim any of the objects, Kirby said. They do not appear to have been operated by the US government.
Kirby had indicated on Monday that the three objects were different in substantive ways from the balloon, including in their size, and his comments yesterday marked a clear effort by the White House to draw a line between the balloon, which officials believe was part of a Chinese military programme that has operated over five continents, and objects that the administration thinks could simply be part of some research or commercial effort.
In Washington, Pentagon officials met with senators for a classified briefing on the shootdowns. Legislators conveyed concerns from their constituents about a need to keep them informed and came away assured the objects were not extraterrestrial in nature but wanting many more details.
Still, Senator Thom Tillis said the successful recent interceptions were likely to have a “calming influence” and make future shootdowns less likely.
Senator Lindsey Graham told reporters after the briefing that he did not think the objects posed a threat.
“They’re trying to figure out — you know there’s a bunch of junk up there. So you got to figure out what’s the threat, what’s not. You see something, you shouldn’t always have to shoot it down,” Mr Graham said.
Mr Biden has ordered National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan to form an interagency team to study the detection, analysis and “disposition of unidentified aerial objects” that could pose either safety or security risks.
The recent objects have also drawn the attention of world leaders including in Canada, where one was shot down on Saturday, and in the United Kingdom, where the prime minister has ordered a security review.
Japan’s Defence Ministry said on Tuesday that at least three flying objects spotted in Japanese airspace since 2019 are strongly believed to have been Chinese spy balloons.
Meanwhile, US officials confirmed that a first missile aimed at the object over Lake Huron landed instead in the water, but that a second one hit the target.
General Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said the military went to “great lengths” to make sure none of the strikes put civilians at risk, including identifying what the debris field size was likely to be and the maximum effective range of the missiles used.
“We’re very, very careful to make sure that those shots are in fact safe,” General Milley said. “And that’s the guidance from the president. Shoot it down, but make sure we minimise collateral damage and we preserve the safety of the American people.”
The object taken down on Sunday was the third in as many days to be shot from the skies.
The White House has said the objects differed in size and manoeuvrability from the Chinese surveillance balloon that US fighter jets shot down earlier this month, but that their altitude was low enough to pose a risk to civilian air traffic.
Weather challenges and the remote locations of where the three objects were shot down over Alaska, Canada and Lake Huron have impeded recovery efforts so far.
General Milley was in Brussels with Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin to meet with members of the Ukraine Defence Contact Group on additional weapons and defence needs for Kyiv in advance of Russia’s anticipated spring offensive.
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If schools can take sanctions against students for Facebook posts regarding teachers, will this mean they can also take sanctions against students who are engaging in online bullying?
Well it should mean that.
Exactly, as soon as it involves a teacher the school are on top of the situation. But they aren’t so quick to act and expel if it’s kids being bullied.
Correct but they don’t and it’s not even in Department of Education and Skills guidelines for Code of Behavior which is fairly weak and to make it worse they(the guidelines) aren’t even a legal requirement.
To liable a teacher warrants expulsion and further investigation. To say the parents are appealing the expulsion is just bad parenting. They did it, they are expelled, move on. Seek education elsewhere. Teachers have a hard enough job as it is without being defamed and run down on a social networking site for all to see and jeer. The parents are free to ask questions but no way should the students be re-admitted.
Exactly. This says as much about the parents as the pupils. What lesson are they learning when their parents defend the indefensible. Parents should support the school and show that there are consequences to actions.
If the parents appeal it , then the teachers should say, well we tried to turn a blind eye to these allegations, which are seriously damaging from a professional and personal point of view, and we are going to seek legal redress now.
In all honesty, given what they were posting about these teachers,that the courts are the only reasonable approach. At the very least they should not be allowed back in to that school, ever again.
The perception you can post anything online consequence free needs to be addressed. This is one such method.
So should we be afraid to speak our minds for fear of reprisal?
There’s a difference between posting your opinion and slander or bullying..
I completely agree. Zero tolerance!! Abuse or Bully then Expel!
punished, yes.
expelled, no.
they should have been made to read a formal apology out in front of the entire school.
then sent back to class and educated so that they know better in future.
I agree with that idea! Expulsion doesn’t work. Schools need to come up with more imaginative punishments for disruptive students.
Having said that, I would hope that this school would take the same line against students who have had nasty comments made about them, and not just the staff.
The teachers would have grounds to take legal actions and sue for damages and they would win the case before it ever got to the court.
Expelled is the apt route and it is being lenient as they are young and dumb.
Having looked in to this further, then their being expelled is unduly easy. I think that they should be legally cautioned, and never allowed in that school again and that would be a slap on the wrist. If they tried this in another country, they would be facing a hell of a lot more.
Personally if that was said about me, then I would seek full legal redress and aim to hammer them in to the ground for good. There are some things that you cannot say about someone.
I voted Yes, before i seen this comment. Agree completely!
It’s probably something stupid I would have done, but I said yes anyway.
I think its fair to say these students knew full well what they were doing, i heard an argument this morning that these darling little students did not realise their comments were being Published, quite a weak and nonsensical argument. Given the climate of abuse allegations, I think it is reasonable that the school and especially the teachers involved had every right to be appalled by some of the allegations whilst not made clear by all accounts were of a vile nature. The said students displayed a level of vindictiveness which show they clearly knew what they were doing and the damage it would cause.
Fair play to the school, it is liable & im delighted that finally the seriousness of FB is hitting home. Theres a huge difference between saying something bad about a teacher infront of 5 people/classmates/friends and saying it on FB to potentially a couple of hundered/thousand instantly. Stupid kids.
It is about time kids realised there are responsible for their own actions … We are too easy on own children these days – if it was my child i wouldn’t try to get him back in !!!!
Bullying in any form is still bullying, whether it be physical, mental or of the “cyber” type, (if you could call it that), and to me, is totally unaceptable. So yes, they should be expelled. Nobody has the right to make anyone else feel smaller than them. That is all I have to say on the matter.
If you were a teacher and someone made horrible comments about you on a social networking site and you were just expected to continue teaching them like nothing happened, how would you feel? Of course they should have been expelled. There really was no other option.
How naive are these kids to think it wouldnt get back to the teacher/school? Are thy THAT naive that they think that FB is this closed little circuit, secret and hidden from everyone? Seems they DO have a lot to learn, question is, what school WOULD take them on now??? And would anything they might have to say in future be taken seriously at all?
These students are on the brink of adult hood and as such should be made face the consequences of their actions . Firstly they should be made to formally apologise on the facebook account and retract all the comments they made. Then at the school they should be made apologise formalil and in writing in front of the entire school to the the victims of this bullying. Then they should ask permission to return to school And lastly they should undertake not to use facebook or any other social media for a 12 month period.
Having said all of this if they were my sons I would march them by the ear to each of the teachers involved and make them realise that this behavior is unacceptable and make them apologise .It is an absolute disgrace that this should have happened . I voted that they should be expelled.
I voted yes but as long as the same rule applies for the bullying of students as well as teachers.
kids spend too much time on poxy facebook as it is, doing nathin when they doing something. these kids went on it with a purpose, intent on ripping the teachers for personal gain and popularity, well congratulations, mission accomplished. now deal with the consequences. in my day, if you were found out to have written something offensive on a desk (that only the pupils in the school could read) you’d run the risk of expulsion. this is much worse given the potential for the comments to go viral. So sling them out, be a good lesson to the others.
There are I think some misconceptions about this story. The children in question created a page on FB following a trend in other schools and colleges called “Oatlands College Memes” in which people created and posted memes about the school. Some of those memes were inappropriate in sexual tone and ought to be utterly condemned and appropriate measures taken. However the problem is that the action taken hasn’t been measure or appropriate. One of the posts which has been a catalyst for the expulsions read “Can’t tell if Mr/Ms X is a bad teacher or if the students are bad” and this has been suggested as one of the memes which is of a bullying nature which seems an over the top reaction. Similarly the pupils that received detention had liked at times innocuous posts in that group such as posts about the fact that the school pitch slopes downward which once again shows that the school, in my opinion, has acted over the top on the whole situation. The issue arose and instead of dealing with it in a calm manner and resolving it so that it doesn’t happen again the school has alienated people. Large swathes of both the student and parent body in the school are disgusted by how the school handled the situation and also management’s approach to dealing with them when the issue was raised with them. Indeed one long standing member of the school community who has served it for a number of years has resigned in protest at how the issue was treated by the school. While all articles on the incident in the school have to be concise by their nature, there is far more to the story than reported and indeed it is important to correct some misconceptions which might arise without the full facts of the case.
Absolutely. The school has to be extremely opens with this, and show that those expelled were the originators of the post, and were being malicious and aware of what they were doing. Students being punished for liking? the school can’t have a blurry aim. The initial idea behind the page seems perfectly acceptable.
The punishment should fit the crime. These students did something which is of a serious nature and so they should face serious consequences (let them appeal if they want by all means.) In our society we see too much wrong doing going unpunished
.
We have travellers racing around on public roads endangering the public..no consequences for that.
Bankers and politicians screwing up the economy and being rewarded… houseowners not paying their household charge even though they know they are breakingthe law..no consequences ( had to put that in lol)
Im sorry to say that we have lost our way. I hope this school expels these kids.. Only good can come from it in the lesson it will teach their students. if they back down they deserve everything they get.
I’m sorry, so you’re saying we should be preemptively punishing children based on the crimes previous generations committed, so that they won’t commit those things they might never do in the first place? That sounds completely idiotic to me, kids do stuff like this in school because they are cool and creative and not limited by rules the way adults are.
Travellers, bankers, politicians and household owners are all adults in the adult world. When I was young, I remember when children were protected from, and not treated according to, the adult world. Being a child is great because its not being an adult, and teenage years suck so much because it is the process of becoming an adult. How can you possibly stand by treating them in that kind of “you get one strike” way? Or that there are “degrees of seriousness” to childhood actions?
Children do whatever they can to the most extreme they can, be it study or sports or pranks! They push their boundaries so as a) to best experience life and b) to figure out their limitations. Punishing them for that, instead of directing them morally will create a far worse society than the one we have now… I sincerely, SINCERELY hope you’re not a teacher.
Can’t really comment without knowing the full details, but if there were allegations of a sexual nature, that’s extremely serious. Seeing some of the obnoxious statements on social forums, there are plenty of adults. never mind kids, who haven’t copped onto the idea of what you should or shouldn’t say on public sites. I’m often surprised that more people aren’t sued.
expelled is harsh, come on like we all b*tched and moaned about teachers, facebok is just the new way of doing so, i voted no as its not like its said directly to the teacher, if its not in the school the school should have no grounds so to speak
There’s a major difference between bitching and making serious sexual allegations against someone who works with children.
Craig – you also have to bear in mind that it’s not just back chat but when you press post, you are publishing those comments onto a public forum. That is the fundamental difference and that’s what makes this so serious. Defamation in a publication is rarely said directly to the offended person.
It is certainly a harsh punishment but certainly fits the offense. Parents need to wise up and educate their children on online behaviour and that what you do online can have real world implications. It’s also something that should be covered in the school curriculum. Should be at least a class or two in it and teachers should be reinforcing the message as they go along.
It probably means “up to and including expulsion, depending on the severity of the misdemeanour.” All internet users, including schoolkids, need to know that they have responsibilities. These teachers’ careers could have been completely jeopardized by this defamation. It can;t be taken lightly. Parents also need to share some responsibility here. Bullying is at the heart of this: anyone who thinks that teachers are never bullied by their students (and by their students’ parents sometimes) needs to wake up. I could never imagine becoming a teacher in this day and age. I hear far too many horror stories.
Talk is temporary, but email or Facebook is something that can be re-read over and over, as well as potentially being widely circulated, so it’s a lot nastier than a Whinge with your mates about how much homework you got. I think students are a lot more vocal with their disrespect these days (and not just towards teachers) and while there are some fantastic young people out there, I agree that this type of thing has to be nipped in the bud.
Most of us are commenting here without knowing the real truths about the situation. To counter some of the comments here I’d like to say the following:
–a recent report about mental health among adolescents showed that they report that school is the biggest stress in their lives – why is this?
–most secondary students have very little voice or say in their educational environment, how they are taught, how they are treated – school councils have a very limited role and are largely ineffective. Students in most schools are NEVER asked about their experience of school, what they would change, what they find stressful, what is a problem for them – why is that when other countries would do regular questionnaires with each student?
–many students seem to feel they are treated with little respect in their school environments, denied a voice, and treated badly by some teachers – they have no way to address this. They themselves are punished for the smallest misdemeanour, but there are no sanctions for teachers who treat them disrespectfully – which clearly happens in every school. In my experience, there is always remarkable agreement among students about which teachers treat them unfairly and disrespectfully.
–the relationship between teacher and student is reckoned to be one of the most important factor in students’ happiness and ability to learn – how come we do not see more of a ‘whole school’ approach in more schools so we can ensure that all teachers paid from public funds are aware of how to positively manage group dynamics and treat young people with the dignity they deserve?
In this case, we need more facts – what exactly were the nature of the comments – if some are allegations, then have they been investigated?
Are we not mature enough to understand that young people in a system most of them don’t want to be in, where they often have no real voice or control over their day-to-day lives, young people who are not emotionally mature, are going to do things that more mature adults might not do. They are actually impulsive and risk-seeking by nature and find it difficult to consider the outcomes of their actions (neuroscience work on brain development of adolescents shows this).
The Idea surely is for mature adults to use the opportunity to explore with them why they do not have loyalty and love for some of their teachers, what issues they have, or why they would indulge in this kind of hurtful behaviour and what this could feel like for other people – and how they could make amends. Expelling children can lead to a really negative spiral in their lives and it is a real shame that the school have taken this option. If they are a Christian school, it is all the more shocking that they cannot be more forgiving and try to find out what is going on for the young people in their care. I see they are Christian Brothers – surely a little forgiveness from the order that beat my brothers in years past would be a nice thing?
Really great post there, Michelle.
From my own experience when I ask my kids which teachers they like/dislike, teachers who are strict (and possibly keep control of the class) are generally referred to as “mean”. Maybe therein lies the unanimity.
I like the idea of forgiveness and furthered education with a public apology by each child in question. There’s no point in screwing up their education and possibly their employment prospects for juvenile stupidity. We were all stupid teens once, it’s just the means of expression has changed. They should be rehabilitated back into the school community and educated about their transgression and consequences of social media.
They shouldn’t have said anything sexually abusive but as for saying that a teacher couldn’t do her job properly, this is probably true. What’s wrong with speaking your mind? What about free speech? A lot of teachers cannot or do not do their job properly and somehow they are untouchable or immune to scrutiny. It’s a bad state of affairs!
bullying is bullying end of , Is is never acceptable under any circumstances, I feel the School was correct .
Just a reflection of our overly punitive criminal justice system – all research shows that the vast majority of people offend between the ages of 16 and 18 but it declines rapidly from then. What is the school trying to achieve? Punish them yes, but to what end? Ruining their lives?
Kids are idiots.
I would imagine the school (and other schools) are doing their best to save themselves from being involved in a court case/suing somewhere down the line because of facebook. Its ‘nipping it in the bud’ asap from the schools point of view, expel them & the message might hit home for other students & schools. Plus the principle is the teachers boss, would your boss not do their upmost to protect you? Its IS their responsibility.
Kids (these kids in particular) might be idiots but *these* idiots could have cost teachers their entire careers. These kids are bullies, plain and simple.
i found out my daughter was being bullied on the internet, i called the kid who started it, and said i could not believe what she was doing, as they used to be friends, following day my daughter was called in for bullying at school, she said to teacher to look at the pages and she would see , she said nothing, the teacher would not look and kept calling my daughter a bully, she did not want me involved and walked out on the teacher a few times, then she told him she was calling me in, and he backed down, she spent numerous nites crying, playing sick as did not want to go in, its sad but true, and i feel the teachers should listen to kids, and listen, dont call a truthful teen a liar, thats how liars are made, i am not saying my child is innocent, she is a normal teen, but a liar no, and anyone that knows her, knows that about her, but guess being in a school for 4 years they dont get to know students anymore, if teachers cant deal with kids, they should call parents and make them aware, they are supposed to be responsible for them when we drop them up, and not dictate but listen and nurture and try to bring them up to be good adults,
Well said jackie
Were the allegations checked out before they were expelled. There are a lot of teachers who cant do their job properly and are kept in the system for some reason. With regards to the sexual allegations were the Gaurds called to check out these allegations?/
Promise you this school will ignore bullying of classmates instead of dealing with them like they have with the teachers case. ‘kids will be kids’ but once it’s the feeling and reputation of teachers on the line, that attitude goes out the window.
I think students of that ilk need more education, not less. There should be civil penalties for such behaviour. Slander and libel are actionable offences, are they not?
‘B7584 Likes This’ :D
not for a first offence. and I wonder whether the same force had been applied if this had been a fellow student …
There is a difference between libel and basic freedoms. Defamation is a serious issue but so is reprimanding some 40 other student for clicking LIKE. This could be a dangerous development especially for kids who should be able to LIKE whatever they like but also be educated concerning fall out from defamation. If they continue then that is another question but I would hate to think of kids being denied basic freedoms. God knows how they will interpret that in a few years.
It’s quite difficult to have an opinion on this when we don’t know what the bullying entailed. Or how serious ‘serious’ is in relation to the remarks by the students.
When students bully other students, the school usually says there is nothing that can be done. When a teacher feels they have been bullied there is a media furore. Hypocrisy as per usual. I reckon about 80% of the teachers in this country aren’t up to scratch and, whatever about the alleged sexual comments, the students should be commended for blowing the whistle on a ‘teacher’ who is not doing their job. More whistle blowing please on these parasites who are just in it for the money and the long holidays.
“I reckon about 80% of the teachers in this country aren’t up to scratch ” Curious assertion. Care to elaborate and/or share some of your exhaustive research?
Well said Richard! Although based on my own experience of my own school I would say it is closer to 50 or 60%. You can be sure I will be whistle-blowing at every opportunity I have once I leave school.
Richard, you need to check the definition of parasite and while you are at it , grow the hell up!
Its an online domain that is the zeitgeist form of communication between peers. Granted it is more public, and yes it may affect the branding of the organization. However, its the same as kids might discuss this, write on a note etc that we may have done albeit I may have done. The punishment is excessive and further pushes the point that the administration does not understand the technology or its students.
Meanwhile, teachers’ names are blackened and their careers jeopardized. Zeitgeist, me hole.
Hardly, the comments of children from a social media source would hardly blacken somebodies name nor would they jeopardize anybodies career. Social media and online communication is zeitgeist Chris, and something that this generation has grown up using. The punishment was too severe, had they suspended them or given detention that would have been a more realistic approach in my opinion
How many of you are parents of teenagers or teachers, I wonder. And if you are a parent, what would you do?
Posting comments that can lead to someone being suspended from their job, while being investigated by the authorities, having that stigma over you, for the rest of your life, the looks and the “ahh no smoke without fire”.
I’d prefer to be labelled a thief and everyone to believe it, than have that done.
The issue is not that the administration don’t understand the medium. The children , and by extension, those responsible for them, have shown a clear lack of understanding of the implications of their libellous comments.
In expelling them, the school are not denying them an education. The children can apply to another school, perhaps not as conveniently located, but who are prepared to accept them as students.
If the teachers decide to seek legal recourse, they are perfectly entitled to but, as their employers, the school must also protect the good names of their staff and set down a marker.
Some lessons can be learned outside the classroom !
It is ridiculous that these students can face any form of punishment from the school. The event took place outside of school hours on a social networking site that has nothing to do with the school. Should they be expelled for sharing their opinions with their friend by word of mouth on the street?
Should people be censored for expressing their opinions? Hell no, lets stamp the nazi boot down on that one straight away.
Nanny state!
Expressing an opinion is one thing: defaming someone and risking their career is quite another. Maybe the teachers should have sued them instead?
Yea, lets try destroy the future of some kids because of a silly comment on a website that we could just have taken down instead. Better yet, let make some gold old money out of it while we’re at it.
Jaysus, there really is no hope for us!
When something goes on the Internet it stays there. They may have made the comment outside school hours but people could see it anywhere at anytime and they are still responsible for this.
The “silly comment” included sexually related allegations that could have triggered police investigations.. When that kind of mud is slung, it really hurts teachers and can have devestating effects on their careers. Blanket expulsions for “silly comments” is not envisaged and woudl be completely unacceptable. It is bound to be a sliding scale depending on the severity of the offense. But the defamed teachers have to have some rights here.
I hope the claims were and are being investigated.
I think the kids (young men) should be given a break once they apologize and then the school should also apologize to the 40 or so who were reprimanded for clicking LIKE. Clicking an icon on a computer screen will never be an offense.
We tend to forget the mischief we caused ourselves. Once the kids know it could be more serious than they thought – the job is done. Lets not blow it out of all proportion by dragging it into perpetuity. Surprised at the readiness for vengeance aired by some. It it was responsible adults in the workplace fair enough but these are not adults and school should also be about teaching them correct values not dishing out disproportionate and possibly illegal punishment. Teachers should expect some grief, especially teachers of senior pupils. I think it comes with teh territory.
This is why companies sack employees for this type of stupid behaviour. They get away with this in school and they’ll think it’s acceptable across the board.
Nobody’s saying that everybody should carry on as normal. But the school has missed the opportunity to act according to values of love, peace, forgiveness, reconciliation and restorative justice – thus creating true accountability, healing, making amends and also moral development of the young people concerned. See http://www.transformingconflict.org/Restorative_Justice_in_School.htm for more about restorative justice in schools. They could use restorative justice techniques to get the students together with the teachers so the students can explain why they did it and the emotions behind it and the teachers can explain how they felt about it and how it has affected them, and then action can be decided upon by all – perhaps some kind of restoration? Revenge is just lower order thinking and will be a lose/lose situation, while restorative justice could offer a win/win situation.
Another do gooder ! Pfft. What about the teacher’s reputations and the character assasination they had foisted upon them . You saw that priest reynolds getting a large sum in compensation for a false allegation levelled at him by a primetime repoprt…… What is so different about this ? These are not young 12 /13 year olds ,these are young men on the brink of adult hood and they know how serious their comments were. Appalling lack of responsibility to even suggest that these teachers should work with these ”brats” again.
If what they were posting was said about you in a Facebook post, among people where you live. I can guarantee you that your first call would have been to your lawyer with a demand to destroy the little shits and the second would have been to the Guards and that you wouldn’t rest till you had this matter resolved.
Fagan’s
100% agree with you .
You obviously are not a teacher. Teachers put up with all kinds of abuse and make concessions all day everyday for student with a variety of problems but malicious, spoilt students must know there is a limit. Teachers are human and are entitled to preserve some self respect and dignity.
I think suspension would probably have been enough, that combined with a forced course of how to behave on the internet. Maybe a talk about how bullying has affected people,
I’m not a teacher, but I have teenage kids, and while they wouldn’t post anything like this on Facebook, it wouldn’t surprise me if they would press ‘like’ on something like it.
I do try and watch what they’re up to and talk a lot about what is acceptable and what isn’t , but you never know with 15/16 year olds and peer pressure is a big issue as well.
It seems to me other measures could surely have been taken, but that would require extra input, and maybe that’s too much to ask of teachers/ parents?
Very well said Michelle. I think expulsion is over the top. They are teenage boys, who probably indulged in a bit of what we adults perceive as silliness. However, it does raise the question, again, of how to deal with bullying. Verbal bullying is particularly hard to spot and deal with. I think the suspension should have been enough.
When you are posting one of the most serious allegations that can be made about someone, especially a teacher, then it is far removed from bullying.
I sure RTE’s defense recently was that they were only engaged in a bit of Silliness and that a slap on the wrist would do.
The teachers can complain to the Gardai but the school has no business interfering in this matter which is a private matter between the teachers and the kids. As usual schools think they have a say in children’s lives outside of school hours which they don’t. Teachers take them to the cleaners if they want but school BUTT OUT and MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.
I have to agree. It should be a matter between a bully and the victim of bullying. Law is the law. I don’t know why recently people try to punish others for posting things on facebook and other sites. Where is the freedom of speech and expression? Where is it written that student can be expelled from school for posting things on social websites?
If you are bullied report it to the website or call gardai and report defamation or abuse, stop whining about it. All those stupid kids, first they add everyone to their account, and later complain that someone is posting crap about them. They knew what they were doing when they have created the account and were adding their “friends”.
I think we should concentrate on reasons of bullying, forcing parents to deal with the problem and educating children, or maybe social websites should deal with bullying problem in a better way? It is very easy just to punish everyone, but is it working?
The school is involved because it has directly impinged on the reputation of the school, in the most serious way possible.
The school are also involved because they are thinking, these little cruds need to know they cannot get away with this, and while they deserve to be investigated/sued over this, maybe the courts should be avoided as it will follow them for life. The school is being quiet responsible and managing a very difficult problem in a very responsible way.
Personally I would destroy them.
Most definitely, without a doubt!
Judging by the number of people who want to hammer these kids I suspect Aubrey, Liza, Chris and a lot more are teachers who are taking defensive knee jerk positions and also throwing the results of the survey out of kilter.
The kids also have rights and the internet has recently been judged to be a basic human right that is not subject to a school placing it off limits temporarily or otherwise or punishing students for pushing LIKE. Parents might choose to do that but not school. You guys need to grow up and see the big picture – Kids need more protection than teachers – educate them and show them where they went wrong – end of story.
No No No that’s disgraceful , what bout word of mouth and txt , teachers are there to educate and of course kids will say things vocally , whatever way they can . These teachers need to ignore things like this and do their job and educate
Shane, how can you ignore it when these remarks are published on the Internet?
Which is all well and good until some lying little darling loses a teacher his/her job and ruins the possibility of them ever getting a teaching post again. If one of your colleagues or clients wrote such things about you on a public website, I doubt you’d be so laid back.
Ye I know but as someone said punish but not expel and if the parents are any good theyll sort their kids out, also a lot of kids do things without thinking and need to b shown/taught how to manage these things in future
These kids already had served a 20 day suspension and fifth year students . What they done is wrong but they are kids and won’t learn from this if they’re expelled and would b unlikely any other school would take them
True Chris but going back to that school Could b the best sort of lesson for them, you’d imagine there wouldn’t b a peep out of them I’d imagine
The remarks were published in a public forum, so it wasn’t a case of these kids talking to a couple of their mates, these messages could potentially have reached thousands of people. If the remarks made were untrue, that makes it libel. Teachers are required to be Garda vetted to work with children, and libellous remarks like these could have a serious effect on their career and livelihood.
Why should the teachers ignore it? It seriously undermines their ability to manage and run a classroom. Teachers don’t just educate kids about a specific subject, but are also expected to be role models. If the teachers had set up a group like this and posted comments about their students, they’d be sacked and be in front of a judge so fast their feet wouldn’t have time to touch the ground. Why should it be any different when students do it? No matter what side you look at it from, it’s wrong.
Those responsible should be punished, and if the remarks posted are libellous, then these kids are lucky to be getting away with just being expelled. They could possibly face criminal prosecution as well.
Teachers being bullied I find a difficult concept to accept. teachers and school management are in ninety nine percent of cases in the portion of power.Similar to other organisations example gardai they have a tendency to over react to any challenge to their authority. Deal with the slander or other offence in an unbiased forum and punish the people concerned in the appropriate manner. But unfortunately there may be no unbiased forum.
luca, the poll say abusive, i know the story says sexual and i can agree with that part as it can seriously affect the teachers future, but regards other i stand by my post
I’m sorry but if we kick kids out of school for doing something like this, where are they ever going to learn (other than permanent enrollment at the school of hard knocks) why what they’ve done is a bad thing? Its up to these institutions we engage with to teach the next generation why certain things we do are considered bad or good. That generation then thinks up their own, new ways to be bad, and teaches their kids not to do it. And, I mean, we can hardly rely on those slipper clad pyjamas mums, who value their children in bill paying child support potential, to transmit those values and virtues! No, kids need to stay in school and learn that there are goods they can use to aspire to greater Common good for everyone.
A teacher doing their job well would want to show those kids why what they’ve said is bad, demonstrated through their punishment, not banishment of the kid/s in question. I think there’s a huge deficit of teachers willing to envision their own careers this way, thinking themselves instead just well paid public servants with job securities and generous benefits. It’s obvious in a country where teachers are as willing to leave the school at 3.30 before the kids can even get out the doors! Take a step up over the border and see how many teachers are leaving a school before 4, 5, even 6pm! You just wouldn’t get it here, but the Irish are damn well paying for it in taxes! So demand it!
(Sorry for using kids so much but it saves on typing children xD)
If they cannot tell what they did is wrong, incredibly wrong, as 5th years, they are beyond saving.
These kids must have a very warped moral compass, to think what they did is acceptable. It certainly would not have been considered so in my day.
They set out on a course that could have easily ruined someone’s life. It is not as if they were smoking a joint behind the bike shed, or cleaned out the sweet shop till. This is big boy stuff, they are getting away with not being charged in a court or sued. Would most people allow them that leeway. I suspect not.
There is a lot of fluffy waffle in your post tbh. Personally I blame the parents.
People are allowed to vent their anger but the question is would teachers rather the students say what was posted to their faces while in class ? no I don’t think so, so being expelled is extremely harsh I think, they should at least be warned then some kind of action taken and then last resort expulsion ! Maybe I’m the only one who see it like this but if anyone agrees then please like the post. Thank you.
How easy it is for teachers to pass judgement on their pupils when kids are given no voice.
Education is about knowledge and responsibility. Educate our children and stop being so caught up in dishing out punishment.
As for what happens in the business world: there is an opportunity for workers to express their opinions on the performance of their leaders, no such opportunity is ever offered to kids in school. This is one reason why our school system tolerates poorly performing teachers.
If teachers want to expel (fire) pupils then teachers themselves should expect to be fired for making mistakes.
This example highlights how our schooling system is all about the teachers and never about the children we are supposed to be educating.
Teachers, please put the needs of the children you are supposed to be educating first, for once, please.
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