Maybe I’m just stupid…so maybe I just dont get it. But I have two questions- if two people love each other and are willing to commit to each other, whats wrong with that?
And if two people, already committed, and love each other, bring up a child, or a family, whats wrong with that; as long as the child or children involved are in a loving relationship and are cherished, nurtured and educated.
As a straight person I cannot see any problem with gay people having the same rights as us. Its a non issue as far as I’m concerned.
As for their bringing up children. Well there are plenty of hetrosexual parents that have no clue, and we see comments everyday about how little ones have suffered. We see comments about how dogs need licences, but kids dont.
Enough of the homophobia. Its not good for us and definitely not good for our kids.

You’re not stupid – the marchers always prove the wisdom of crowds – Look how many marched against the Iraq war – and look who was right – that kinda thing !

Some think that we should not be giving equal status as parents to same sex couples, in our constitution, where we set out the ideal we aspire to, and that it may mean wee will not be able to differentiate, All other things being equal between say two gay men and a mum and a dad when it comes to a child’s rights to adoptive parents. It is a relevant but not numerically significant point. Rather than insult a lot of people and deny them constitutional protection of their relationships, we should vote yes and address the family definition again later once gay marriage is secured.

That was in reply to Jenni.

They might be able to save your soul, but your seat is fu**ed.

Vótáil Grá. Vótáil Tá!

Bobby Phelan I couldn’t watch the video all the way, started to feel sick listening to these lowlife politicians lying and conning people

Jenni you said all for me, equal rights for all.

leo the only way you can save your soul is to walk on your heels .you and your government have sold the irish people down the drain.you and your corrupt government have robbed the irish people of everything and now you want to raid the wages and social welfare .the backbenchers should hold their heads in shame.i have not heard one word of protest from any of them.people worked all their lives to own their homes whereas now this government want those prudent people to become tenants in their own homes.pay the water company or else.what about our constitutional rights or has that gone out the window as well..on friday give this government the message vote independent

but it important to now the faith that our politicians came from as different ideologies exist in different education systems –
Also whether they are theist or atheist is also important – maybe more politicians coming out as atheist would open a well of outpouring – just as their honesty has done so along similar lines – regardless of politics – or not

@Eugene just because young guys are not getting their heads bashed in (THAT often) does not mean they should be denied visitation rights in a hospital through a no vote..that’s a totally illogical leap.

@Rick you know people live in diff areas, diff contexts etc and that one person expressing theirs, and admitting it may not be representative of the whole is NOT the same as saying homophobia does not exist right?

Once again another case of someone replying to what they want to reply to rather than whats in the actual story/comment

Ryan I was responding to the individual who believes we “do not have much of a problem” which I strongly disagree with.

Ricky could you cite some examples of this “blatant homophobia all over our society” and how it is tolerated?

Eugene You want to deny a minority the opportunity to marry if they wish, and you think there is no problem? You go through five years in my shoes, even the last five which have been the easiest, and come back and tell me there’s no problem. As long as people are free to decide my future, there is a problem. As long as I get funny looks and an anxious feeling walking down the road if I dare to hold a ladies hand, there is still a problem. As long as I get shouted at by a guy outside a pub for being gay and everyone standing there laughs, there is a problem. As long as lgbt youth are any % more likely to attempt suicide, guess what, there is a problem. Just because it’s worse someplace else does not mean we don’t have problems here. That’s like saying we don’t need any development because we are not as bad as the 3rd world

I’m always amazed that things I consider fairly innocuous become controversial statements that split people down the middle

I did admit d4 land is a bit of a bubble of uber-duber liberalism but is the situation that bad in other areas? If you wanna say it is folks…provide examples/evidence.

Here’s one example people seem to feel perfectly comfortable saying something like ” I don’t agree with gays adopting” that actual seems to bs a valid opinion that we are supposed to respect! Seriously

Then challenge it Ricky. Half the problem is the LGBT community itself. The yes camping (sorry) is doing a TERRIBLE job countering stuff like that. Tell them there is no law banning it now, so it’s irrelevant. Ask them what they think is going to happen? Confront the irrational fear with LOGIC don’t just roll your eyes and walk away as so many do.

There is still a lot of self segregation going on with gay bars gay sports teams (how are we to counter the stereotypes if were all going to diff social events and never interact with each other or do so infrequently?)
Whats the no1 factor determining homophobia according to all the research? If they know an LGBT person personally they are very unlikely to be homophobic, and a strategy of hiding away in separate places does not help confront that. Nor does the internal bullying inside LGBT circles where if you don’t conform to their cartoon notion of what it is to be LGBT you’re ”acting str8”

I’m saying it’s gotten better, and it’s getting better all the time, not that homophobia does not exist.

Homophobias gotten more subtle (but also smaller). It’s hard to express affection in public, we’ve no LGBT sports stars at provincial or national level in football or rugby…but it’s nowhere near as bad as it was surely.

Ryan I agree it’s getting better and seeing the passion that some straight people have for marriage equality is truly heartwarming but that is not to say we haven’t “much of a problem” as someone did earlier.

Ok well I’ll get specific.

I’ve never seen or heard of someone assaulted for being gay. I know it happens from the Garda LGBT reports but I’ve never seen it, and while I do live in preppy kid central now I came from a very working class area originally and never saw it there either.
The only two incidents of verbal homophobia I’ve ever seen backfired totally on the people hurling the abuse.

You may cite the referendum but the no voters there are the usual suspects…divorce, abortion..youth defense these are all the EXACT same people and they’re what? less than 25%? The referendum shows the Yes side is at 70% that’s as close to unanimity as a society gets on anything short of once in a generation things like the Good Friday Agreement

Ryan I know for myself that when I wanted to meet a girl initially I was so thankful that gay bars existed. If I had to go into a regular bar and walk up to a girl knowing 90 % would be straight I never would have met anybody. Gay bars are necessary because there are so few lgbt people compared to straight in society and it makes it easier to at least know you’re in the right department. There is no reason lgbt people have to or should only attend gay bars, however it is important I think that they are there.

People being assaulted is not the benchmark of homophobia. It is much more subtle than that. How often do you see a gay couple holding hands or kissing in public. Why are there no premier league footballers or provincial rugby players who are out. And of course just because you haven’t witnessed things yourself doesn’t mean they don’t happen.

And Ryan you told Ricky to challenge those opinions and said the yes campaign is doing a terrible job of countering those arguments. For starters we shouldn’t have to, as adoption is a completely separate issue to the referendum. And there are lots of yes supporters on here doing exactly that, challenging opinions and refuting arguments. I’m really sick of debating with people who won’t listen to reason and consistently dehumanise and insult me. Most time I come on here I see the homophobic culture that exists. For someone who admits they rarely take part in the debates on here, it’s not really fair for you to cast judgement on those of us who do. There are none so blind as those who will not see. It doesn’t seem to matter how many times an argument is refuted it just keeps coming back. Does not mean we are doing a terrible job. It just shows how rigidly some are sticking to their viewpoint, and in some cases probably means there is an underlying motive for voting no besides the argument itself

Ricky,
I don’t agree with gays adopting. That’s my opinion. You seem to be suggesting my opinion shouldn’t be tolerated ? The arrogance of you. There are many people who don’t agree with gay parenting, you don’t like that, tough.

Why don’t you agree with gay parenting? Why would gay parents be any worse than straight parents?

And that’s homophobic Tony.

Lorenzo
Every Child should have a mother and father where possible. Nothing to do with gay people and therefore not homophobic.

So Tony do you oppose single people adopting because I don’t hear the public outcry over that. It seems its just “the gays” people have an issue with and the whole mother and father thing is a convenient cover for blatant homophobia.

Why is it necessary to have both a mother and a father other than biology? Can you show any conclusive proof that would say having ‘society’s’ version of a perfect family would be more beneficial to the child? There are many children who grow up in single parent households who turn out to be just as equal in society as those in two parent households. So how does the fact that a child should have both a mother and father make any sense?

While I respect other peoples opinions as we are a democratic country, The yes campaign should not be criticised for exerting their right to challenge other peoples opinions, within reason of course

Why is it necessary to have both a mother and a father other than biology? Can you show any conclusive proof that would say having ‘society’s’ version of a perfect family would be more beneficial to the child? There are many children who grow up in single parent households who turn out to be just as equal in society as those in two parent households. So how does the fact that a child should have both a mother and father make any sense?

While I respect other peoples opinions as we are a democratic country, The yes campaign should not be criticised for exerting their right to challenge other peoples opinions, within reason of course.

Why is it necessary to have both a mother and a father other than biology? Can you show any conclusive proof that would say having ‘society’s’ version of a perfect family would be more beneficial to the child? There are many children who grow up in single parent households who turn out to be just as equal in society as those in two parent households. So how does the fact that a child should have both a mother and father make any sense?

While I respect other peoples opinions as we are a democratic country, The yes campaign should not be criticised for exerting their right to challenge other peoples opinions, within reason of course

Yes Ricky, I do oppose single people adopting for the same reason.

Ciaran,

How does a child needing a mother and father make any sense ???? Are you for real ?
God help us.

Funny where was the public outcry at that Tony where were the Mothers and Fathers Matter group???? Oh yeah they didn’t even exist they were only formed in the build up to the marriage equality referendum. Still it’s nice to know your next target will be single people once your done with the gay community.

I am voting yes to recognition of gay marriage but I don’t agree with same sex parenting either. Gender balance in the workplace, in political representation and in the home. A mum and a dad make the best team, although of course there are crap mums and dads. Single parenthood by design is not a good idea. That’s just my view, as a person who lives in parent and kids land. It’s about role models and compromise, and kids learning from an early age about the complimentatrity of the genders.

@tony
Clearly I don’t understand why children have the absolute need to have both a mother and a father. So could you therefore explain it to me, why should two parents of the opposite sex be the only people entitled to raise children in our country.
I’ll refer to a different example- What about a child (who was not adopted) who had one parent who was not present in their life because of death, abandonment or otherwise and was then raised by a single parent. Is that single parent going to raise their child worse than two parents would?

Should children of parents where one parent has passed away then be taken away from the child’s other parent? If no, then how can you have the opinion it’s better to have both a male and female parental role mother?

I’m sorry Katy but since when is “gender balance” the determining factor on whether someone should be a parent. Is it not their ability to provide a loving stable home? Or do you think that only opposite sex couples can provide that?

Ricky not to agree with any one side but the change to adoption law was not voted on nor was anyone told until it was done. The referendum needing a vote makes it very public from the outset.

@Tony, you do realise that LGBT people and single people have been able to adopt for years now and the outcome of this referendum will not change that fact. The only difference it will make is thay a child who is being raised by 2 gay or lesbian parents is afforded the exact same rights as a child who is being raised by a straight couple. So agree with same sex adoption or don’t but that ship has sailed and it’s going to happen whether we vote yes or no.

Aaron, this Government is even more hated than the last shower of criminals, simply because they are carrying on where the others left off and they lied and cheated their way into power.

“New Politics”, if I remember correctly. There’s been so many fecking lies it’s hard to keep track at this stage.

Aaron……FG made sure the bank debt became Sovereign debt and they did not have to introduce water charges. They promised to stop cronyism but instead they wallowed in it themselves.
We were promised a new kind of politics and great changes to the system…….nothing new and nothing has changed.
Sadly, we no longer have journalists with the ideals of finding the truth…all they do is print what their told and ignore anything that might upset the mood of the person who pays them.

Wake up Aaron the worst Irish government is still at large, don’t be sticking up for them.

Northern Ireland just ejected gay marriage yet again. Largely unreported in the irish media. See http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2015-northern-ireland-32488247

Parenting…. Another red herring from the No side.

There is nothing on parenting in the wording of what we are voting on.

You didn’t see homophobia but did you look? The journal has stories of it.http://www.thejournal.ie/homophobia-1329801-Feb2014/

Reading your comment I was like: Yeah Yeah yeah fine grand gr…….wait a minute what? ‘It’s his choice’. As microsoft Word would say: ‘fragment. Consider revising’

Trolls be trollin’

What age are you and have you any kids, I have no problem with adoption either as the one thing all adopted people have is adoptive parents that want them. Can’t always be said with parents of there biological kids. But sooner or later most adoptive people need to know there back round. This will not be possible if Gay couples start demanding they should have kids even thought it is biologically impossible for them to do so.