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Updated 5.30pm
THE DRAFT REPORT by the Oireachtas committee looking at water has listed a number of options in relation to the refund of water charges.
The committee is meeting in private today to hammer out some of the issues, but it is understood it will be seeking an extension of up to one month to deliberate on its final report.
Deadlock remains between Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil, who have differing views on many issues, particularly on excess water usage.
However, a government source has said there is “growing confidence” that a compromise can be arrived upon between the two parties.
Delay
Sinn Féin have stated it is utterly opposed to any delay in bringing its recommendations before the Dáil.
One of questions that has long been posed to the committee is – should those who paid get their money back?
The report – which is important to remember only outlines options for the committee – carries a number of proposals that householders who paid their domestic water charges should be compensated.
The Oireachtas committee chairman Pádraig Ó Céidigh states that this should be done in an “equitable manner”.
Senator Grace O’Sullivan says there should be a “suite of measures” offered to householders as to how they can apply to get their money back, including direct payment options as well as tax deductions.
Fianna Fáil is clear in its view that refunds should be administered by the Revenue Commissioners.
However, Fine Gael says everyone should be treated equally and submits that those who have not paid to date should be pursued.
The crux – excessive use of water
Fianna Fáil wants excessive usage to be dealt with by the Water Services Act 2007 under which fines can be applied and enforced through the courts.
Fianna Fáil’s Barry Cowen maintains this existing law can be strengthened and should satisfy the EU water directive.
The EU directive on water framework maintains that some form of charge under the ‘polluter pays principle’ needs to be introduced.
Meanwhile, Fine Gael’s Simon Coveney has been steadfast in his position that a charge for excessive usage must be introduced so that Ireland does not breach EU laws.
Chairman Ó Céidigh has put over a hundred options forward for consideration in the 32-page report.
He recommends there be no charge for normal water usage but a charge for excessive usage with medical exemptions.
However, in their submission to the committee, the AAA-PBP state that “administering excess usage charge would cost more than charge would raise”.
One option proposed is that there be an excessive usage charge introduced, with similar policy objectives to the introduction of the plastic bag levy (which drastically reduced the usage of plastic bag use in Ireland).
Those found to be using in excess of the agreed ‘normal amount’ would have a grace period of two quarters to get their house in order, and reduce their usage.
Poll results
According to a new Claire Byrne Live/Amárach Research poll three out of five people believe households should be charged for excessive use of water.
Fine Gael, Labour and the chairperson state there should be a charge for the excessive use of water, and it seems the majority of Irish people agree.
Some 60% of those asked said households should be charged for excessive use of water, 32% said no and 8% didn’t know.
Water meters
There is a big issue in this report – the opposing views on the water metering scheme.
There are three options put forward in relation to water meters (which has been long been the crux of the problem for a number of parties).
The chairman recommends the meters in the ground be retained, stating that they are vital for data collection in relation to usage and for leak detection. He says it should be a legal requirement for new dwellings to have them installed.
Fine Gael recommends there be “cost-effective” incentives introduced to ensure water meters are installed in all new builds. There appears to be consensus among members on this issue.
Senator Grace O’Sullivan says water meters should be installed as standard in all new-builds.
However, Sinn Féin and Fianna Fáil are calling for the complete cessation of the water metering programme.
The committee are due to meet a number of times this week.
Additional reporting Christina Finn
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My first time getting it from tomorrow and I’m so thankful it’s available, the workplace were originally going to pay us only 50% of our contracted hours which was just not something some staff on 8 hour contracts could live on, especially when they work a lot more than 8 hours a week. Retail, even as management, is precarious!
@Whatever: I was on it from the middle of March last year until the end of December as my job is still closed but thankfully got a college placement co-op position for the next 8 months so I am off it now. Was very grateful to receive the PUP, glad it’s there for ye now being laid off again
@Whatever: As self employed I applied last year and was told NO. Now I eat beans, no heat, food or help. No one cares.
@Paul Somers: why was that? I know a few self employed people that got it. My brother and husband included
@Paul Somers: had you a tax return completed and paid for the previous financial year? If you completed a return in October/November 2019 for the 2018 tax year you should have got it. If you only started your business in 2019 you should qualify once you submitted a return for that year.
@Laura Clayton: I honestly don’t know, I pay tax and the vat. Got scared, and now sitting in the house with thermals and a wooly hat. I would love a cuppa
@Derdaly: yes I did
@Paul Somers: you should be entitled to it keep contacting your local social welfare office they will get it sorted for you. I was waiting 5 weeks for mine to come through but I got it eventually with persistence
@Brian Byrne: gave up but thank you
@Paul Somers: honestly don’t give up Paul keep at them daily until they sort it for you. I sent in the postal application and applied online through the social services portal. It was all sorted eventually.
@Paul Somers: That might be why you never got it. If you want it it’s there for you as long as you provide what’s required of you.
@Seán O’Loughlin: it’s embarrassing
@Paul Somers: You were told lies. I’m self employed and on the full PUP.
@Paul Somers: paul I’m self employed and I’m on it since March last year. I had to apply 3 times because it never went through online. The last time I posted it in and was eventually back dated to the 1st time I applied. You are 100% entitled to it. Hope thing get better for you soon.
Heard of some people being denied loans because they claimed pup. Thought it wasn’t meant to affect your credit rating?
@Brian Dunne: yeah that is true. Iv heard of people having their mortgage application rejected because one of the joint applicants were on PUP. Even with employer letters saying their job is secure and available for the person to return to. I don’t know if it effects your actual credit rating, but banks will not lend to people on social welfare and PUP is social welfare no matter what way you break it down. Its a joke
@Eoin Jackson: and before people start blasting the banks as the big bad wolves for that strategy, that is mandated by the CBI, which in other words, is basically mandated by the government.
@Eoin Jackson: yup – that was the case for me and my husband last April. We were both on Pup and both had letters confirming future employment and BoI pulled our approval. They’d issued it in February and we were sale agreed on a house and everything. That all fell through.
Ended up going to the credit union. Their deal isn’t great and you’ve to have a 30% down payment (Christ) but they signed off on it for us while both on Pup. In our own house now since November and I’m still on pup. Husband back at work but laid off on the wage subsidy scheme. We are well able to afford the mortgage repayments but there’s not a chance we could have afforded to rent a place
@Brian Dunne: it affects affordability not credit rating, so no surprises that people were refused a loan due to a lower income
Cash nixer bonanza
@MickN: Mor on. It’s keeping the wolf from the door for so many people.
@Seán Óg: Aye right…
@Mike: Dead on
Where do I sign up?
Went on the PUP in November because of redundancy.. started a new job today. Happy days!
Banks are very hard to deal with this lockdown. I tried to get a 2 month freeze on the mortgage as it’s going to be 2 months until I’m back up and running. Spent an hour filling in the online form. Looking now for last years earnings. Accountant letters etc. etc. What’s last years accounts got to do with being out of work this year due to a pandemic. I think the government should be doing more with the banks like last lockdown.
Serious question: Do people living in Northern Ireland, if working in the south, get paid PUP from the Irish Government?
@David Connell: only available to people with pps /prsi no. You have to supply details in order to qualify
And the reports of the country bouncing back later this year and the housing market being strong.
What a load of bs
@billy bound: I’m in construction and I’m up the walls. That includes every construction friend I know. Covid has made things busier not quieter.
If you get OAP and out of work you don’t qualify, even if you pay taxes
@Margaret Deacon: why should you get pup if you weren’t working in the first place.
When do they transfer to jobseekers (aka regular dole)?
And still you’ll get another tax demand at the end of this year like most people did in the last 2 weeks
when the chickens come home to roost this place will be worse than 2008.
If you are getting OAP but still working before Covid hit and were paid on PAYE basis, as far as I know, you are entitled to PUP. However if OAP and self employed and NOT on PAYE system, (just taxed at end of year when returns are made)then no PUP. Anyway this is what happened 2 of my friends who were in each situation as described
have your say