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POLICE IN NORTHERN Ireland have said a man reported missing yesterday has been found.
86-year-old William Doherty had been missing since yesterday afternoon and his family were concerned for his safety as he requires medication that he does not have with him.
Gardaí had been asked to share the appeal because it was possible he may have crossed the border.
This morning, the PSNI said the elderly man has been found safe and well.
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Problems with the scheme.
1. A write off of the negative equity on the house. This results in the taxpayer being liable for the debts of a private individual. If somebody was stupid enough to spend 400K on a 200K house then why should the prudent have to cover their mistake.
2. The rents that you talk about are negligible. Like local authority housing the rents are in the region of 10% of your net household income. So you could easily be paying €200-300 rent in full employment whilst your neighbour rents a similar house on the open market for €1000-1500.
3. Persons who cannot provide housing for themselves go onto the housing list which can take years to find a property and its usually in a less desirable area or estate. This scheme effectively jumps you to the top of the queue in your own choice of house and location.
In short it is a massive con designed to reward brain dead financial decisions.
+1 Agree 100%, the part as well about how people were pretty much forced with a gun to sign for money they could never afford is just laughable…but go on keep the house and rent it for nothing, maybe all the renters in Ireland should just start paying half there rent now. No surprise the person writing this works for this government charlatan organization, but it’s just another kick in the face to the people of Ireland who want to buy a home. My advice is get the hell out of dodge and go live somewhere warm and decent and equal.
Iceland burns bank bondholders rather than imposing these loses on it’s citizens. For Ireland this is not possible.
Iceland’s government provides mortgage debt relief for it’s citizens. For the Irish government this is not possible.
The Irish state is now holds the worlds largest property portfolio and pays all bondholders 100 cent in the Euro. Yet this half assed scheme is the best they can come up with for it’s own struggling citizens.
Is it possible to cede our soverignty to Reykjavik rather than Brussels/Frankfurt? Or maybe poach the Icelandic government if we offer to pay them more? Because we desperately need to get rid of the shower of clowns that are “running” this country.
http://www.naturalnews.com/035779_Iceland_mortgage_debt_economy.html
Sean O’Keeffe,
They still have the option of burning the bondholders.
@Martin Renters should indeed negotiate their rent downwards, or move to cheaper accomodations if their landlord is not ammenable to that. Rents also fell significantly when the economy collapsed and house prices fell. I’m in a house that is three times the size, in a nicer neighbourhood, for less money than the place I was renting a few years ago.
So the properties pass into the ownership of a non-profit organisations. It might be a better plan to have many smaller neighbourhood organisations, and, while the now-tenants must repay their debt as well as paying rent, paying off the debt is the equivalent of buying a stake in the organisation. If the owner repays, he/she does not regain ownership of the property, but is a stakeholder in the organisation that does own the property, and so both have a say and are responsible for the management of the property. In happier times, there would be the option to buy back the property or to sell their stake, subject to agreement by the other stakeholders.
Actually you are assuming that rent limits would stay at their current levels which is about 50% of market rents. This is practically going to change with social tenants increasingly being forced to cover a higher proportion of the cost.
There is big question with the question of clawback once the tenants circumstances change.
Also, its hugely expensive. Especially if the housing charity is buying out the original loan.
How were people to know how much their house was at the time ? Calling people stupid for paying a high price for a house at a time when prices just kept rising is a bit smug . It’s easy to slate people now who paid over the odds for houses, and hindsights a great thing,
It was fairly easy to tell. When the same average 3 bed semis in commuter land were selling for £65K in 1996 and then €400K in 2006 you had to know something was wrong. Wages in this time only increased by 65%. All this information was not only available to people at the time but was constantly discussed in the media.
http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/statire/temp/20127713413369078QIOA1_13414098.gif
So when would have been the right time to buy? people have to have somewhere to live, sure you could have waited but who’s to say that same house would not cost 800k in 2016..how long does a person wait?
You in Irish Renters are in the housing game. Ye are well informed what is going on, but the man or woman in the street is in the dark on these matters. So it wasnt fairly easy to tell.
@ Irish Renters, how can you call these people stupid? They went to the banks and were approved loans to buy nice houses in which they would spend their lives with their families.nnWhen you go to a dentist and you’re told you need fillings, you get fillings.nWhen you go to the doctor and you’re prescribed medication, you get the medication!nnThese so called stupid people went the banks, the so called professionals, and they granted the loans.nnLack of regulation, not people who wished to have a house in an area they liked, was the problem.
They had an obligation to be informed. Somebody buying a house for 350K is committing to spend about €700K, by far the biggest financial decision of their life. They should have pored over the details of the purchase, of housing markets, property bubbles and whatever else they needed to make their decision. They had the contract in front of them and they knew it we only had non-recourse mortgages in Ireland. Ignorance can never be an excuse. You can be ignorant all you like about purchasing a couch or a mobile phone but not a house. Not if you are going to come back to the rest of us looking for money to fix your mistake.
Derek I know people who have wanted to buy for ten years but new that prices were too high. They have been forced into renting against their wishes. It would have been great if renting in Ireland was better controlled to make this a better long term prospect but people have had to put up with outrageous rental practices in Ireland for a long time. Think how galling it is to put yourself in that situation so as to protect yourself financially and then to see the same people who priced you out of owning a home come looking for your money to pay for their housing. Injustice is an understatement.
@irishowned . Are you really pretending to be that naive. So if I go off to a car salesman now and say what car should I get for my needs, should I follow his advice completely and walk away with €35K worth of debt? You should be slightly wary but respectful of dentists and doctors who always have a financial interest in your illnesses. For every other profession you should be outright sceptical.
Renters…no one wants your money ! let the bank take the hit.
@ Irish Renters, I sent you you a message down below, I should have replied to this one!
And helps the 1,000′s of Renters in Ireland who turned down signing contracts for big money they knew they could never pay back. Do you think this was the first property bubble and crash in the history of the planet?? Prudent renters who are still trying to buy a house but can’t cause it’s still vastly overpriced due to government spin and tactics. What’s the point anymore of living in this corrupt little island when loans and responsibility can be just written off and people who pay taxes and try to do it the right way get sh-t on every time. Its sickening to read all that it really is and I’m not even a renter but I can see the injustice to it all to the Irish renter.
Martin I’ll pay your airfare with a one way ticket up to Five hundred Euro if you leave in the next week as this country would be much better off without your negative attitude together with the psychological damage you are causing people in economic stress right now. Alternatively go and seek treatment for your problem immediately.
this is not a good idea…if the negative equity can be written down for Cluid why not the home owner. And Cluid are not a non profit out fit!!!! what do they do with the rent they receive?? give it away !
Why not get your car loan written off while your at it!
if the banks can do it why not me??? you have no prob handing your money over to them when they got in trouble and see me living on the streets..
Can you point out where Martin said he was happy to bail out the banks?
fair point…but you did in your first post when you said that the tax payer will have to pick up the tad…why should they?? let the bank take the hit.
The banks are nearly all state owned and funded by the taxpayer.
And they still pay hugh salaries to the managers and CEO’s etc that got us into this mess..if the negative equity can be written down for Cluid why not the home owner? Either way you will have to pay for this, if that’s how you see it. And i have to pay the U.S.C along with tax increases, cuts to public services, household charge etc etc to keep the banks going AND lose my house if I miss one repayment.
The more people that are forced out of their home’s put a greater burden the social welfare system and forces more people to rent which will put the cost of renting up.
I get your angry, but you’re venting it on the wrong people.
Andrew you will not be evicted if you miss one repayment. The government have effectively banned the banks from involuntary repossessions. Even our famous Killilney couple had nearly 4 years of zero repayments before they were evicted. However renters like myself live from month to month with the threat of eviction so a bit of perspective is needed.
Doesn’t make a difference one repayment or 4 years..If the bank can get you out they will and chase you for the balance after they sell your house.
I don’t have a hugh mortgage.I didn’y remortgage to buy a holiday home. I was one of the people that went “mad” during the boom times but I have top pay for everyone that did just like you. again I get your anger but I’m with you.
If others can have they debts taken of them and put into NAMA and then get a job working they why can’t I?
Because I only borrowed 250k not 250 million.
We’re all in this together but what I see coming from this is people behaving like the corrupt governmet and bankers that got us into this mess “I’m alright so to hell with everyone else” attitude.
wasn’t ***
@Andrew, “doesn’t make a difference one repayment or four years”. Are you serious? If I turned around to a landlord and said, “you know what. I’m not paying rent for the next four years”. I don’t think he’d be best pleased and I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be living there rent free for four years. “Oh there the house owner”. If I enter into a finance agreement with a car company for the majority of the price of the car I don’t own it, the finance company does until the final payment.
**They’re
Spot on Andrew, there’s a whole lot of double standards going on in relation to this. If the banks were let fail like they should have this wouldn’t be an issue. We’d have a whole heap of other problems but at least the damage would have been done in proportion to each individuals exposure.
That’s the 2nd time some1 on here has made a reference to buying a car. You don’t live in a car. But if some of people had your way we’d have no choice but to. I don’t want or expect anyone to pay my mortgage but at the same time i didn’t expect corrupt governments and bankers to put ALL of us in the mess.
Again your happy to pay money to bail out banks and your happy for your money to pay not 1 but 2 pensions to the likes of Bertie and co and Enda and co when their term is up !
If the negative equity is written down either for Cluid or the home owner some 1 has to pay, why not the banks.
Every mortgage that is taken out, the bank put they own insurance policy on that mortgage, so let them go to the insurance company and claim. And before you go jumping down my throat about premiums, the insurance companies they use only deal with large companies like banks.I wish I was a renter! If i could go back 4 years I never get a mortgage and going forward anything I want I will save for. I will never borrow for a bank or credit union and if I could do away with having a bank account I would. Home owners are not your enemy. The banks are but they have us fighting among our selves will they continue to rub us with pay rises and bonus’s that we all have to pay for !
Hold on a second….you got a mortgage in 2008? Anybody who got a mortgage out post September 2007 and is looking for a bailout is beneath contempt.
correction..I drew my mortgage down Dec 2006..7 months later the world went pop. And I will do what I have to defend me and my family,not from you, but from the people that caused this. The corrupt Government ans their banking buddies.
“A decent man would blame himself and seek to make amends, perhaps undertake a life of penury to fulfil his debts. ”
that doesn’t apply to big business though, right?
@Irish Renters: I agree. Ignorance is never an excuse, think of John and Joe, they both had the same information available to them, but John went out and bought a big house while Joe waited because he realised prices were to high.
Joe based this decision on property rent yield, inflation ‘vs’ property inflation and historical evidence. John jumped on the band wagon and did what his bank manager told him.
Now Joe is picking up John’s bill through taxes. Equally Joe is renting next door to John. John now pays a rent of ?300 thanks to mortgage to rent while Joe continues to pay ?1000.
Not only is this new scheme unfair and an injustice to those who made the right decision; it will also distort market prices for property and rent.
Simon, I have emailed and asked you how you calculate your rent at Cluid but have received no reply. Could you confirm now your methodology for calculate rent?
Not a solution at all , why throw more money in an endless pit? If they can’t pay , it should be sold on . Social housing can use all the nama apartments for these guys to rent . Stupid idea again , to screw the honest tax payer and diligent people who didn’t buy at mad prices. Scrap this scheme immediately
For those that have the ‘intellect and interest to work the detail of the property buying market in their favour’ fare play to – you astute people. For those who are ordinary hard working folk who did what they could under rampant inflationary times, took ‘expert advice’ only to face the worlds greatest economic crash, I say I hope you can salvage something back for all your hard work, your savings and your tax contributions and the like. For the begrudges who for the want of being lucky or astute, careful now – no matter how high you climb the ladder, be mindful of those whom you meet on the way down – for one day you may just find yourself the wrong side of deal. The most practical way of repairing our economy is to be seen with the Norwegian example as it free’s up and creates greater disposable income. Better live that way now, than be living in a subsistence economy for decades. Bankers and bondholders take your hit like the gentlemen professionals you should be; it’s been that way in the commercial property markets for centuries – as you ‘well read’ property experts should be well aware of.
House prices written down to present market prices in Norway .it worked.got economy moving .people had money to spend.but they don’t have the aggression and begrudgery of people like Irish renters and that other guy who should move and give us all a break
Orla think Irish renters and martin mac must b the same person as would b difficult to find two such bugrudging people using alias s on the same page.
i for one bought a house from hell 6 years ago lost my job wife lost her job house 2kids house is falling down dampness every where can’t afford to repair it can’t pay our mortgage i would rather be thrown out than rent it and start all over im at my wits end at this stage and those people who say your better off on the dole would want their head examined
Irish renter if u lost ur job u would get a rent allowance from the gov.are u for real.
Great so I’ll just tell my landlord he’ll be getting €500 less per month and that he is morally obliged to let me stay.
Eileesh you are wrong re rent allowance you can only get it if the rent is beneath a certain limit. For families this is actually quite high but if you ate shingle you are very unlikely to qualify. I know this from experience, my landlady was no way going to cut the rent by 25% so I just had to leave, lucky I was at the end of the lease otherwise she could have come after me for the rent to the end of the lease. 35% if buy to let mortgages are in arrears which is why there is such a crisis with tenants losing deposits etc. Strangely enough you read nothing of that in the media. And there really is no protection for those who fall into rent arrears.
@ Irish Renters. So, now it’s naive and not stupid? Again in hindsight, your liking a banker to a car salesman is most fitting, while I’m not quite sure that that was the case before the bubble burst. All I’m trying to do here is justify the actions of people who bought houses at over inflated rates. I believe a whole lot of people in Ireland will live with this burden for a very long time and can’t help thinking that it was a problem with the banking system and not the people who saw an opportunity for something nicer.
Fair enough and I’m here to counter any reviosion of history to benefit those who I believe were fully culpable for our problems. Not only that but I want to lobby for the only group who I believe were the only genuine, blameless victims in this whole mess; The renters who took a decade of sneers and illegal evictions and who now have an uncertain future in this broken nation.
The new scheme will only create moral hazard among profligate spenders. The taxpayer is already saddled with bank debts from these debtors. Now they want to reward them? Of course the Fine Gael rats are not the ones who pay–it’s Irish taxpayers who foot the bill for Fine Gael’s imbecilities.
Irish renter u should leave that flat u are renting and the computer.go out get some fresh air.all this sitting around u are doing is getting the economy no place oh and take a risk if it fails at least u can say u tried .too much accounting becomes makes u stagnant
Obviously a lot further the your’s or the banks would.You are not the only paying the price for the collapse caused by corrupt governments and bankers but you are hell bent on taking it out on people that bought a home.whats up with that.?
U make it sound so simple .i worked very hard for years in new York to get a deposit for a house here .i invested in a property that’s now worth very little in fact if things don’t change I probably would never b able to sell it for what I have paid into the mortgage and all the money put into refurbishing and maintaining. I am one of thousands.
@Irishrenters ..
People lost their job man… Nobody factored in a horrific recession into their decision to buy a house.
I think you will understand the stress and hardship that brings when you get more life experience ..
Nice instagram photo.
Of West view in Cobh
How could any one have foreseen such a drop in the property market when the”Experts” we’re telling us to get on the property ladder and also try and secure something for our children or they will b forever renting
The “experts” were telling us we were in the middle of a huge property bubble since 2000. Plenty of other interests were saying the opoosite, that it was a new paradigm and that we would get a soft landing. Do you not remember all that debate? Anybody making a decision to buy property had a responsibility to at least research both sides of these arguments before making up their mind.
Brian thanks for ur common sense approach ,it’s about time it comes across on this page. It’s everywhere who can afford repairs on a shite income or the dole but mr.renter doesn’t have to worry about that as his landlord has to do it.also u would wonder if it’s even worth spending money on maintenance if ur not going to own it.these have been the worries of the homeowners for past 5years
Seems obvious enough to me that Irish renters is just more than a little peeved that he won’t qualify for this scheme. All his anger is not really being aimed at anyone because he is pig sick and very very jealous of folk who have a home while he continues to rent rent rent rent. Tee hee hee.
How far would your humanitarian feelings go if you were my landlord and I lost my job? You let me stay for free for a year or maybe half my rent?
What an incredible amount oy money u are wasting every month . Hope u are feeling safe and secure in ur box u deserve it. The economy would nt b doing much if it was relying on people like u .have u heard of movement stimulus growth ?no don’t risk it.
What would you suggest I do? I’m an honourable man, paying my taxes and my own way. I’d love to pay less in rent but unfortunately only the welfare merchants and houseowning whiners get the breaks in this country. What can I do but campaign against them.
Stimulus growth is a zero sum game. You give to wasters to spend in pubs and cafes but you take that same money from the likes of me.
The question remains, if the bank is willing to right down for Cluid, why not write down for the family in the home. If the family cannot pay the mortgage how can they pay rent and half the mortgage? This is Cluid empire building, nothing else. If the mortgage is written down to reflect current house prices, it might, repeat might, have some merit.Regarding comments that the “taxpayer” will pick up the write down, this is not what should happen, the banks should be absorbing the write down as they were party to the original contract and it can be now seen that they engaged in reckless lending so therefore must accept part of the pain now. In any event it would be obscene if Cluid were to be the only winners here, picking up properties at knock down prices while families pay for it.
The differential rent system can create Low social housing rents esp when compared to ‘declared’ income levels… Minimum Cluid rent 10 euro per week maximum 75 per week!
In you are wrong there, I know for a fact that a 2 bed cluid apartment in cork city is 400 per month, and they are starting to put up rents. Council rents are a good bit lower but the properties are very inferior on the whole. Much of the problem is that the system is overly bureaucratic. A lot of money is wasted on the council housing departments who seem to be the epitome of waste.
have your say