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UN CHIEF BAN Ki-moon and US Secretary of State John Kerry are in Cairo today in a bid to broker a truce between Israel and Hamas after two weeks of fighting which has left over 570 Palestinians dead.
Many of those killed in the relentless Israeli campaign of shelling and airstrikes in the Gaza Strip, in its 15th day, were women and children. On the Israeli side 27 soldiers and two civilians have died.
World powers have urged Hamas to accept an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire and stop raining rockets into Israel from the Gaza Strip, demands it has so far resisted.
“Only Hamas now needs to make the decision to spare innocent civilians from this violence,” Kerry said, and UN chief Ban Ki-moon appealed for the violence to “stop now”.
Kerry, who arrived in Cairo to try and intensify truce efforts, pledged $47 million in humanitarian aid for the battered Gaza Strip.
Arab League chief Nabil al-Arabi too urged Hamas to accept an Egyptian proposal to end the fighting it had turned down last week.
Kerry plans to hold his meetings with the Egyptian leadership including President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi.
However US officials acknowledge that the truce efforts could prove trickier than in the past as Egypt — long the key regional broker — had little leverage with Hamas after the army overthrew Islamist president Mohamed Morsi last year.
The top US diplomat defended ally Israel’s right to strike against Hamas militants, but voiced concern over the massive civilian violence.
“We are deeply concerned about the consequences of Israel’s appropriate and legitimate effort to defend itself,” he told reporters as he met with the UN chief, urging Hamas to accept the Egyptian-proposed ceasefire.
Ban said Hamas “should immediately stop firing rockets,” adding that while he understood Israel’s military response, “there is a proportionality and … most of the death toll (has been) Palestinian people.”
583 dead
A series of Israeli air strikes early Tuesday killed seven people in Gaza, including five members of the same family, emergency services spokesman Ashraf al-Qudra said.
The deaths hike the total Palestinian toll to 583 since the Israeli military launched Operation Protective Edge on July 8 in a bid to stamp out rocket fire from Gaza.
Qudra said a strike on Deir el-Balah in central Gaza killed five family members, four of them women.
Another person was killed in a strike in nearby Nusseirat, and one more died in the southern city of Khan Yunis.
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America should not be allowed to enter into the peace talks as they support Israel in what they are doing and financing their military.
I think they are the last nation that should be allowed at a peace table as it would bring being hypocritical to a new level.
Glen the US has given the Palestinians 100′s of millions in aid. Is that hypocritical too then?
And armed Israel Charles !!
How much do the USA give Israel 3.5 billion annually.
@Charles.
and Billions to Israel, not just aid, but loans that have never been paid back, direct military aid and other substantial supports.
The 3 Billion that everyone seems to know about is just the tip of the iceberg
So you’ll be agitating for the Palestinians to return the money on moral grounds then?
If you would prefer Egypt & the US to stay out of it, please tell us who should be at the table?
Personally Charles I would tell them to stick it but that’s not my call !
I think you should be there Jenni
Israel need a sympathiser and it’s hard to find one these days.
@ glen
Now that you say it women at the table would actually get things done …
But answer the question please? Serious question
Jenni
Tibetan monks …. I’m saying that off the top of my head as Israel have influence everywhere … But failing that possibly the pope or since Russia did such a good with the chemical weapons in Syria maybe them…. I’m taking your question serious but you have to understand its hard to find a mediator that has not been influenced by Israel ….. Just trying to be fair !!
Niall Donnelly ..Not to mention supporting Jihad terrorism in the middle east..
Getting America involved is like throwing petrol onto a fire to put it out.
The Tibetan monks are busy being persecuted by China and the pope is busy dealing with scandals in the Catholic Church! Do you really think Russia should be at the table? What about the UN, the EU, the Arab league?
No no & no
I’m going with the monks !!
Lol Glen sure we’ll get some Irish nuns too … Need women too remember!
By the day Charles your childish retorts are getting weaker and weaker. Saying nothing is better the talking pure sh;t.i don’t support Hamas but don’t feel the need to answer everything your comments are like a 3 year olds
Richard – have you forgotten me? That’s two days in a row that you haven’t answered me i.e. you were disgusted with the mane Irish4Israel as they had the name Israel in it but don;t seem so upset that the P in IPSC stands for Palestine and not peace. You asked why I personally (having nothing to do with I4I) hadn’t set up Irish4Peace and I asked you if you wanted to set up an alternative IPSC i.e. Irish Peace Solidarity Campaign.
Are you going to ignore this again?
Jenni, Quatar has good relationships with Hamas and would make a good interlocutor but the Israelis insist that it be Egypt knowing that that regime is a sworn enemy of Hamas. In other words the Israelis don’t really want talks that might broach the underlying issues.
@richard. Dick, you need to calm down son. If pointing out that the US has given 100′s of millions in aid to the Palestinians is childish in your books, then I commend your decision to say nothing. Thanks again for the feedback and your insightful addition to this discussion.
Thanks Brendan … That’s the best idea I have seen so far by a long shot!
We should therefore all exert pressure on the Israeli Ambassador to ensure that Qatar are also at the table, rather than signing petitions and boycotting goods. This, in mu opinion, would be a much more rational method…
Now I know quite a bit about the history of the region and what is occurring right now. But can someone please explain to me how the Israeli’s have so much power worldwide? How are governments not threatening real action against them? Why are people so afraid to speak out against the Israeli’s or say anything negative about them? It just strikes as insane that they are completely getting away with trying to wipe out a group of people including children!
Take the USA for instance.
AIPAC have a strong lobby and more or less can influence politics. Could it be that people are still fixated on WW2 and what happened in the camps, similar to what’s happening in Gaza or could be down the the fact that the banks owned everything and we all know who owns the banks.
Simple. If one country has been shooting mortars into another country, that country has a right to respond. Every country In the world does this. Unfortunately Israel is very aggressive and lethal and Hamas don’t want to stop. Sadly it is the Palestinian people who get slaughtered, caught in the middle.
@Larry Bird.
Having the most powerful lobby group in the world helps.
Its called AIPAC. If you are genuinely interested, google them (not just wikipedia) and check them out and how they operate.
Interesting read.
Thanks! But so I understand they have power in the US, but even over Germany, France, Scandinavian countries as well etc? What about China and Russia, where do they stand?
Western Governments also accept Israel’s right to exist, unlike most of the middle eastern countries surrounding Israel
Jenni
Western governments are nodding donkeys when it comes to Israel.
It all goes back to Religion. It was not allowed in most religions to bring someone to court, cut someone open, lend money and charge interest. So in history the Jewish people had all the money and most top jobs. Solicitors, judges, doctors, Jewellers, landlords and bankers. They were in charge of most profiting industry’s till the Second World War. When the war ended the allies supported them even more. Many of the American politicians receive plenty of donations from the Jewish communities. Money rules
All that money really helped them in the camps.
@Glen
So are most Middle Eastern countries.
It was beyond shocking listening to their Irish Ambassador just a few minutes ago getting such a softly softly interview on RTE’s Morning Ireland !
Isn’t it time that this Government showed some backbone and demand that this modern day Nazi and his Embassy , leave Ireland ?
@ fearr the Palestinian ambassador got a softly softly interview on Ireland AM too this morn. Irish interviewers don’t tend to ask tough questions
At least Ireland’s coverage of the war is a little more neutral than most places. Here in England it’s disgusting. In the Evening Standard yesterday the first mention of the conflict was on page 28 and this morning it was on page 21 of the metro. This is on the same day that Israel committed a blatant war crime by bombing innocent civilians in a hospital. It doesn’t take a genius to work out who’s in control of the media over here…
This might help,
Astonishing really, this is the us and not Israel by the way
http://youtu.be/asGvjbfIASA
Larry, look up who was originally behind the creation of the state of israel and where they took the star emblem from and you’ll then see why they’re so powerful.
Ok. So when for example the ira killed someone did the British go with a helicopter and blow up an entire village cos they knew the person’s house was there. The retaliation is as John Kerry says disproportionate. When you have the US saying it’s disproportionate you know it’s an issue seeing as how much they fund Israel.clearly it’s wrong to have collective punishment and won’t do anything except breed resentment and anger among the affected people.
Guilt over ww2 would be my guess. Could you honestly see the Germans or Russians laying down the law? Israel suits the Americans and to a lesser extent Britain because they maintain a presence in the Middle East, so all that’s left is China really, let’s look at their humanitarian record…. Hmmm can’t really afford to say much either. Guess it’s up to the Irish:(
Israel does indeed have the right to defend itself but what we are seeing here is not defence. It’s disproportionate retaliation dressed up as defence.
What army in the world calls in advance and tells people where it is targeting? If this was truly disproportionate there would be many more dead Palestinians. There are too many as it is and IDF have gone too far but Hamas must stop, and it must call elections also
If Hamas stop and hold elections what happens if Hamas is re-elected, what then?
The Israelis will still keep bulldozing Palestinians off their land when this fades from media attention after a ceasefire
Then Brian Israel would have to sit down with Hamas and the world would need to exert pressure on Hamas to act as a government should. But as there hasn’t been an election in 8 years it sadly may not happen anytime soon. I hope I’m proved wrong though
@Wesole
An army that knows it doesnt matter because there is nowhere for them to go, but it looks good for those watching Fox news
Jenni, the Israeli Gov didn’t talk to them before, they wanted them out of a unity government so what makes you think they would suddenly change their tune if Hamas were re-elected?
I heard an israeli minister speaking yesterday and saying the end goal of this is a full israeli re-occupation of the Gaza strip. I reckon this was the plan all along.
This means israel can help itself to the oil off of the Gaza coast and prime coastal real estate while it pushes the Palestinians into shanty towns.
@ Brian
Did I mention that I also think that Netanyahu should step down to prove to the Palestinians and the world a willingness for peace and I would also hope that the Israeli people would exert pressure on the Government to go to the table. The ordinary Israeli also wants peace …
Jenni, if BiBi stepped down it would only lead to another of his like stepping up. When you see Israeli’s sitting down, drinking beer on the “hillside cinema” near Sderot and cheering on rocket strikes then you realize that the ingrained prejudice isn’t going away any time soon. These ordinary Israeli’s are going to be the ones going in on the next attack on Gaza or the West Bank and here they are cheering the deaths of civilians.
If the ordinary Israelis want peace then they should stop electing hawkish politicians who are hell-bent on wiping out their neighbours. Yesterday John Kerry told CNN that Israel was under siege, meanwhile in Tel Aviv the beach was packed with holidaymakers enjoying the sun, the whole thing is a farce. Israel wouldn’t sit down with Hamas in 2006 after they were democratically elected, threw a hissy fit when they were about to form a unity government with Fatah a few weeks ago, and decided to murder hundreds of Palestinians to show their contempt.
Both countries need a new set of government. If the people of Gaza saw a regime change in Israel of a less ‘murderous’ party then they might not see the same need for Hamas. Unfortunately the distrust and fear of both Palestinians and Israelis lead them to put their fate in the hands of crazy people…
Agreed Paul
Gaius. No mention of the 500 odd palestinians who were killed by other palestinians during and after hamas rolled in to power?
It was actually over 600 charles, but not relevant to the particular point I was making, so, no.
It’s completely relevant. You discuss democracy in gaza without acknowledging the fact that it got binned once hamas murdered their way to overall control? So yes it is relevant. It just doesn’t suit your angle on Israel.
Israel has just created another generation of hamas fighters with the murder of over 500 people. Each family will hate Israel even more and more will join Hamas in retribution. Who can blame them really? Hamas will probably emerge stronger from all of this.
And Hamas with their constant attacks on Israel are also fueling a culture of fear, hate & revenge in their youth .. These are the youth who will eventually be in the IDF. This circle needs to be broken and I for one hope that a ceasefire happens quickly and peace talks resume ASAP
Giving back Palestinian land would be a start Jenni.
Conor Buggy … That is Israels intention…
Create as many Hamas fighters as possible so it can have an excuse to wipe GAZA off the map…
Well Frank the Israelis dont even seem to need that excuse anymore. They are obliterating Gaza right now.
If your land is stolen and houses are bombed killing your children would you offer the hand of friendship ?
Boycott all Israeli goods. Any bar-code beginning with the numbers 729 is made in Israel.
Makes me more determined to find Israeli goods…
Also there’s a free app called ‘Buycott’ you scan the barcode and it tells you if the product is Israeli or if the company is owned by another Israeli company
Wesole ………………This can work both ways….
…..boycott all shops that display Israeli goods..
America fund the Israeli army and Egypt will not talk to Hamas. Hmmmmm.
America also fund Egypt but have threatened to withhold it if Egypt doesn’t play by US rules.
Israel has paid off the Arab league…..
Saudi Arabia would wipe out GAZA in an instant if it had the chance.
http://s11.postimg.org/f6gmsmj43/arab_league_and_gaza_by_latuff2_1.jpg
They dishonour the memories of their people that suffered at the hands of the Natzis. At least all the Germans at the start of the war may have not being aware of what was going on. The Israeli nation and it’s people have a front row seat to these atrocities.
I feel not sorry for the people and innocent children of Palestine, and the spirit of Jewish people ancestors, that obviously died in vein, at the hands of monsters, with the millions that fought from the west to defend them, for this? Surely we have learned from the past?
Even if they do strike a peace deal hamas will declare it as a victory and this will all start again in a few months. Israel are quiet happy to shell civilians, they treat their dogs better than the Palestinians
You say it will start all over again in a few months. You’re probably right so if you were the pm of Israel and the rockets start being fired from Gaza again, destroying people’s homes, etc … What would you do? Don’t get me wrong… The IDF have gone too far this time, but what would you do or would you just leave Hamas firing rockets at their leisure?
Here is the problem, if hamas keeping firing rockets then Israel will retaliate but kill hundreds of innocent civilians in the process, which will in turn anger hamas who will keep firing rockets. This conflict has been going on for decades and innocent Palestinians are the biggest losers.
This time? The IDF go too far every time. They have no idea of proportional response. Sure, the Israelis have a right to self defense. But this, as always, has gone beyond self defense and ended in slaughter.
So what would you do if you had the power?
Homes getting destroyed would be on a tiny scale, as we know the.iron dome shoots down at least 90% of Hamas rockets. So the Israeli reaction is shocking and in my opinion nothing short of murder.
Read an interesting article recently which said that Israel is using a “mowing the lawn” strategy. Basically, Israel is the superior power with a very good defence system. Every few years when it seed that Hamas or the PA looks as though they are getting too big for their boots, Israel uses or manufactures a situation that gives Israel the excuse to brutally assault the Palestinians. They hammer the shite out of them for a couple of weeks, ignore world opinion (throw in a bit of “you’re anti-Semitic” accusations to boot) and damage enough infrastructure both military and civilian so that the Palestinians need about 2-3 years to get back on their feet again. Repeat as needed. Just like mowing a lawn.
broker a deal and stop ethnic cleansing and land grabbing?
Brian, so the brutal murder of 3 teenage boys is Israel manufacturing an excuse to invade Gaza? What about all the rockets? And it really doesn’t matter if iron dome intercepts them, as the intent of them is to kill civilians. Hamas know where all of Israel’s military installations are but still targets civilians. Why doesn’t Hamas invest the millions it receives in education or health or defence of its people, instead of tunnels and katusha rockets?
Gary … 90%? Proof please
@ Brian I’d like to read that article. Link please? Thanks
Jenni here are some links, from various sources.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4312017,00.html
http://www.merip.org/israels-operation-mow-lawn
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/KNOW-COMMENT-Mowing-the-grass-in-Gaza-and-beyond-363290
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Israel-is-bombing-Gaza-Support-the-Jews-363598
http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/18682/mowing-grass-gaza/#miv4iEKJsGJ1qrf8.97
I can’t paste link from my phone type it into google and it will tell you the Jerusalem post said it shoots down 90%
@jenni…what would I do if I was in power? I dunno, maybe something wild and crazy like broker a deal, cease the aul ethnic cleansing, return land which has been unlawfully grabbed and free the people of Palestine from the largest open air concentration camp on the planet at the moment.
the fact that you ask such an idiotic question is very representative of the attitude of entire Israeli community and its sympathisers, negotiation and reason is not your vocabulary, this would put a halt to wiping out the Palestinian people
ok, this is where you say “but Hamas is firing rockets”, ever wonder why they are firing rockets? which by the way, are grossly over exaggerated in their capabilities, they are purely a symbolic attempt to show Israel and the people of Palestine that they are not taking things lying down, they are also firing them into Palestinian land which was been unlawfully taken and occupied by Israel.
@ doc so your suggestion is to take the blockade off Gaza (ie back to 2005 and we all know what happened then), take all Israelis out of the West Bank and not defend against the barrage of rockets that will inevitably start immediately (just going on past history)?
So basically what Israel agreed to before? i.e. give back Gaza and the West Bank in return for the surrounding nations to accept Israel’s right to exist ?
Do you think it will work this time?
I’m not being funny but it’s been offered before and rejected over and over again..
@ Brian thanks I’ve read some if them but will read the rest now
@doc, so if Israels real intentions were to ethnic cleanse and land grab why then did they withdraw completely from Gaza and remove all the settlements and some of the settlements in the West Bank?.
80% of the Israeli populace approved of Sharon’s withdrawal welcoming it as a huge leap forward towards potential peace, but as always with these slippery Palestinians they laughed in Israels face destroyed the infrastructure left behind by Israel, elected the hard line Hamas and the rockets and the suicide bombers kept on coming thats all the thanks Israel got for making a huge effort to try and obtain peace in the region.
But it will always be Israels fault not the poor conniving Palestinians.
@ Gary I’ve seen that but there are some interesting articles that say 90% is grossly inflated …
http://m.voanews.com/a/is-israels-iron-dome-all-its-cracked-up-to-be/1958793.html
@Jenni
I think we have had this discussion before. Would Israel offer that deal again?
If they did, I think it would definately be a workable deal this time.
But the big question is, would Israel withdraw back to the pre 67 borders?
@ Yossi
“Would Israel offer that deal again?”
I hope so
“Would Israel withdraw back to the pre 67 borders?”
Is this actually what Hamas & al lPalestinians want? Have they said that? Serious question (I have to keep saying that as I think people think I’m being sarcastic and I’m not)
It was never tried before….israel has never completely pulled out of the occupied territories….they have never ceased bulldozing homes and building settlements. Even right now when people are watching gaza the stealing of land and villages around jerusalem is accelerating. When israel pulled out of gaza they took back farmlands for a buffer zone and any farmers who attemted to farm the land here were shot…..so nobody knows what would happen now if israel were to really give peace a chance by stopping the ethnic cleansing of palestinian land because they have never tried it.
DH, did Israel take this farm land for the buffer zone because the rockets and suicide bombers kept on coming?
@jenni you keep asking the question “what would you do if you were in power” can you not get it by now, the answer by everyone you ask is; not kill innocent women and children. Do you not get it?
@ John Barry
So if Israel laid down their arms right now to ensure no more civilian deaths are you really that naive that you think this would be over?
@Jenni.
I seriously think so. Its worth having a discussion about it. Maybe the supporters of Israel, of which I’m sure you are, should put forward that proposal and push each embassy to do so.
There is a group called J street which are very much in favour of that type of approach and i think they are a good group.
William they immediately built the buffer zone surrounding gaza with anywhere from a half to a full km all the way around gaza strip…it has since widened twice in the northern section of gaza to cut down on the rockets. Every building and home was flattenened in this zone and two security fences built also. The idf have killed or wounded many farmers who tried to work there land and they also moved the last of the bedouin nomads out of the western side of this exclusion zone. Put that into the perspective of the size of gaza in the first place and there os no wonder hamas and islamic jihad have so much support in gaza
Thanks Yossi – is this them http://jstreet.org ? Wonder if there is an Irish / European version as this is very American!
Israel do not have the slightest intention of reaching any ‘deal’ where Palestinians have independence or autonomoy on any of their land. Nor have they ever had, with the brief exception of Prime Minister Rabin who was assasinated by right wing political opponents for his trouble.
Of course, no ‘official’ Israeli policy is allowed to be explicit about this, even whilst there are Knesset MPs from parties like Jewish Home, in Netanyahu’s coalition gov, who have openly suggested that all Palestinians, including women & children should be killed. Especially Internationally, the propaganda fiction is to be maintained that were it not for Hamas, or some sprurious reason, Israel would have settled some ‘two state’ solution years ago.
Or at the very least maintaining the fiction that Israel believes that Palestinians have at least some right to exist somewhere in Palestine.
But when it comes to the stated or endorsed positions of major (very likely Israeli gov funded?) Israeli lobbying (propaganda) operations, like European Coalition for Israel (ECI), their true position is not hard to find.
And it quite explicitly states that Israel, as founded, was always intended to comprise, & ‘legally’ does, all of Palestine, including the West Bank and Gaza.
No mention is made as to the fate of the indiginous people of these areas, or any part of Palestine. Or even recognition of them. The parallel with the ‘untermenschen’ of Nazism is quite striking.
This is about as plain a statment as it gets that Israel’s true position (the unchallenged, implicitly endorsed position of its International lobbying/propaganda effort) is that Palestinians have no right whatever to exist in the land of Palestine that have inhabited for hundreds of generations at least.
Besides claiming that a ‘conference’ aspiration – the so called ‘San Remo’ agreement of 1922 – is the basis for this, I kid you not… the ‘word of God’ is also invoked as justification for this naked land grab, ethnic cleansing & mass murder of children & whole families. Here:
quote
“…When the State of Israel was declared at the end of the British Mandate period, it became the
fulfilment of the Mandate for Palestine, which had been created in order to bring about this
outcome in due course. Although the manner by which the fulfilment came about left much to
be desired, the Jewish State of Israel was what was envisaged by the writers of the San Remo
Agreement nearly thirty years earlier…
Effectively, this was recognised by the United Nations
when it accepted Israel into membership on 11th May 1949……”
So you see, Israel’s true position is that it is the Palestinians who are (‘illegally’) occupying Israeli land, therefore Israel is not an Occupying Force in the West Bank, Gaza, or anywhere else. Oh, and ‘God’ is on their side too….
I repeat for the benefit of deluded clowns (or closet Israeli propaganda shills?) like Jenni Harrison et al…. all your guff as apologist for this slaughter, and suggesting that all that is needed is just to tease out some hithertoo hidden ‘formula’ or ‘process’ toward a ‘two state solution’ without major international pressure and sanctions on Israel, is nothing more than a clear invitation for Israel to carry on with its de facto ethnic cleansing, mass murder and land theft program.
That is, the most disgusting support for War Criminals.
@ Mike –
“I repeat for the benefit of deluded clowns (or closet Israeli propaganda shills?) like Jenni Harrison et al”
I stopped debating with you a few days ago because you repeatedly called me an idiot, a shill, uneducated and more.
As soon as you start calling people names, you lose all respect.
Just because my opinion differs to yours does not make me a clown and by calling me a shill you are making no sense.
The word shill means “an accomplice of a confidence trickster or swindler who poses as a genuine customer to entice or encourage others”.
In what way am I pretending to be a genuine “customer” of the Journal with a genuine opinion?
I am entitled to my opinion just as you are to yours. Can you please just respect that?
Plenty of deluded clowns in the pro-Palestinian lobby like yourself Mike Hall, quoting stuff nearly a century old to justify your anti Israeli rant, its the here and now people should be worrying about not the past.
Have the Palestinians ever veered away from their long held view that all Israelis should be slaughtered or driven into the sea?.
The Israeli withdrawal from Gaza was a major concession particularly the removal of the hard line Jewish settlers, by doing this Israel foolishly thought that the Palestinians might play ball and stop the constant rockets and suicide bombers but they got quite the opposite, electing hard line Hamas who just kept on lobbing rockets and sending in those crazed suicide bombers, hence Israels need once again to increase their security to protect their citizens.
If the Palestinians had played ball and showed Israel they could be trusted then Israel might have afforded them more concessions?, but as we all know Islam can never be trusted as their ideology of evil dictates not the thing between their ears.
Pathetic Jenni, when we start getting near the truth it becomes clear that you are not the slightest bit interested in ‘debate’ here, but peddling a ‘do nothing’ ‘move along now’ ‘Israel is perfectly reasonable to kill hundreds & maim thousands’ position.
I’ll note that you are apparently more concerned about being considered a clown or shill, than apologist for the mass murder of children. The latter water off a duck’s back perhaps?
Respond to the point Jenni – I’m getting sick of you’re constant peddling of Israeli propaganda as fact.
The piece quoted from the European Coalition for Israel website is quite explicit in making a spurious claim, including invoking the ‘word of God’, that Palestinians have no rights whatever to the West Bank and Gaza lands.
What do you have to say about that?
If it is not actual Israeli policy, then why is it posted unchallenged, implicitly endorsed by one of Israel’s major global lobbying and advocacy organisations?
Answers please….
William Boyd
It is you the clown… what I quoted was from a major globally reaching Israeli lobbying website.
Had you bothered to actually read it, you would have discovered that it was from an event – Pro Israeli, not ‘Pro Palestinian’ – held over 24th and 25th April THIS YEAR, not ’100 yrs ago’.
A very very racist statement there William by you.. “…as we all know Islam can never be trusted…”
I think that adequately demonstrates what you are…. racist clown by your own words.
Islam is not a race but a religion, or more to the point an ideology an evil one at that Mike.
@ Mike –
I have made my point very clear time and time again to you but your ears are shut tight as you are more interested in repeatedly trying to persuade the readers that I am a shill or that my attitude is ‘do nothing’ ‘move along now’. If that was my attitude, I’d be commenting on articles called “lunchtime fixes”. But I’m not. I am here … reading everything that people recommend (not just from “my” side), scouring the internet for news on what is really happening and trying constantly to educate myself better. I am not a Historian and nor am I a Politician. I have learnt from some and others have learnt from me.
I am not an apologist for anything Israel does. I have repeatedly said that I condemn the death of innocents, etc and yet you keep pointing the finger at me and trying to make everyone believe that I am pushing the point that Israel is entitled to kill people. It’s like if you said it enough, it’ll come true.
I am simply trying to balance out the “argument” and to come up with a solution. If the idea of peace is too flowery for you, just skip my comments. You don’t have to reply and if you use my name in the same sentence as idiot, stupid, shill, uneducated or clown again I will report you to the Journal. Name calling is not acceptable.
Here’s my problem … maybe I’m too stupid / thick / ignorant to be able to understand what you’re trying to say. Are you trying to say that there will never be peace because Israel don’t want it? Where have I ever say that international pressure is not essential? I have said that A MILLION times but you;re not listening.
So how about we stop not listening to each other and just avoid each other and then life will be more pleasant for us both?
Semantic drivel Boyd. Your statement is meaningless without invoking the the adherents or followers of a religion – ie people. Islam is hardly homogenous even in doctrine, never mind what its various adherents would think about current affairs.
Anyone making a similar blanket statement about Judeism would be instantly labelled an ‘anti-semite’ by your fellow mass murder apologists, and reasonably so in that case. (Which is why you never hear that kind of thing from any reasonable supporter of justice, in Palestine or elswhere.)
Again, your cognitive staraightjacket exposes your idiocy, with not a little malicious predjudice clearly implied by you.
Jenni
Again, you sidestep the point… and for exactly the same reasons you have done so in every comment here.
As soon as your basic premise that ‘Israel has behaved reasonably at all times & genuinely seeks a peaceful co-existence with Palestinians (in Palestine)’.. is challenged…. you simply cover your ears/brain and go la-la-la-la.
But this IS the entire point and why waffling endlessly about improving some mythical ‘peace’ negotiation which has come to nothing all these decades is tantamount to a ‘do nothing, carry on’ position – de facto, the continuing land grab in the West Bank, or are you ignoring the IMPLICATIONS of that as well for REAL Israeli policy whilst offering nothing except your mealy mouthed but worthless ‘sympathy’ or ‘agreement’?
You have stated plainly you are ‘pro-Israel’. And it is equally obvious that in making that statement you have closed off your brain to the possibility that successive Israeli governments are THE PROBLEM and OBSTACLE to peace. I ask AGAIN, what do you thing about the unchallenged/endorsed piece on ECI that none of Palestinians have ANY claim to Palestine???? Answers please…..
You have claimed to have read on the subject, but you have read virtually nothing other than some of the worst and blatantly propaganda authors like Dershowitz. You dismissed Finkelstein out of hand because you read somewhere (probably Dershowitz!) that he was a ‘holocaust denier’ when a moments research would have told you his father died in Auschwitz!! And Finkelsteins position is very highly nuanced and carefully considered…. but critical of Israeli policy…. so it’s lalala again from you?
Again, when these things (many of them) are pointed out to, you simply brush them aside, as you are doing again with the ECI piece I linked and quoted.
Nor have you engaged with the view that regardless of anything else, the current slaughter of civilians suggests a particularly heartless & cruel mindset of the current Israeli administration and ALL their global lobbying & propaganda operations. The question of ‘proportion’ in civilan deaths in the conflict is again seemingly dismissed by you, except for the ever so ‘reasonable’ sounding ‘sympathy’. Sorry, after DECADES of this, that is simply not acceptable alongside your de facto ‘do nothing’ position.
Yet what? MAGICALLY? we are supposed to imagine this mindset, that has not budged one iota in decades will somehow suddenly fully engage in a fair peace process, even if Hamas etc cease firing rockets in rather pathetic & hardly damaging protest at the illegal occupation (by CURRENT UN view, not some ‘word of god’ view) ??
What are we supposed to make your obvious intellectual blinkers? Naive at best…. but very repetitive here & 100% avoiding the REAL, HARD questions that need to be answered to find a peaceful resolution.
And the MOST OBVIOUS answer of all…. Israel needs to have real PRESSURE applied, ostracism if necessary. The Palestinians have clearly had the most cruel amount of pressure on their side for decades by dint of the ceaseless brutality and humiliation meted out daily and systematically by Israeli military.
A change is needed…. a radical one. Not a chance that will come from openly ‘Nazi’ coalition gov in Israel.
@Mike
“There were people – babies – thrown through the window and covered with blood,” an eyewitness described the horrifying scene.
“The worst thing I saw, which I think will haunt me all my life, is a baby that was sitting in a stroller outside a shop and was dead,” another eyewitness related.
One of the Hamas terrorists involved in the attack described her reaction and the Muslim reaction.
“While I was on the bus and everybody was congratulating one another, they said on the radio that there had been a martyrdom attack at the Sbarro restaurant, and that three people were killed. I admit that I was a bit disappointed, because I had hoped for a larger toll. Yet when they said ‘three dead,’ I said: ‘Allah be praised.’”
“Two minutes later, they said on the radio that the number had increased to five. I wanted to hide my smile, but I just couldn’t. Allah be praised, it was great. As the number of dead kept increasing, the passengers were applauding.”
______________________________________________________________________________
Final death toll 15, ,including 7 children and a pregnant woman, with another 130 wounded. Allahu Akbar, PBUH.
“your basic premise that ‘Israel has behaved reasonably at all times …”
I have said numerous times that Israel are not behaving reasonably.
So when you start off by making a statement that is not true, I wonder why I bother wasting my time talking to you…
“waffling endlessly about improving some mythical ‘peace’ negotiation”
If I’m “waffling endlessly” just don’t converse with me! I’m not forcing you to read my comments!
And as for a “mythical peace negotiation” … this can only be solved with a peace negotiation whatever format that may take.
“the continuing land grab in the West Bank, or are you ignoring the IMPLICATIONS of that as well for REAL Israeli policy whilst offering nothing except your mealy mouthed but worthless ‘sympathy’ or ‘agreement’?”
No I’m not ignoring the implications of the sprawl of settlements. They were removed from Gaza and they can be removed from the West Bank.
“successive Israeli governments are THE PROBLEM and OBSTACLE to peace.”
I DISAGREE … until they are given the chance, we don’t know that. There is more and more support for secular parties in Israel now.
“what do you thing about the unchallenged/endorsed piece on ECI that none of Palestinians have ANY claim to Palestine???? ”
You put up a link and a quote but I can’t find the quote in the link so am reading it out of context. However if it actually stated that No Palestinians have any claim to Palestine, that is wrong.
“You have claimed to have read on the subject, but you have read virtually nothing other than some of the worst and blatantly propaganda authors”
Again you take a comment I made to someone else out of context, I was specifically asked for a list of books and my list included Noam Chomsky & Ilan Pappe’s Gaza in Crisis … Useless drivel?? Of course I have also read countless articles online and no not all from the JP.
“regardless of anything else, the current slaughter of civilians suggests a particularly heartless & cruel mindset of the current Israeli administration and ALL their global lobbying & propaganda operations. The question of ‘proportion’ in civilan deaths in the conflict is again seemingly dismissed by you, except for the ever so ‘reasonable’ sounding ‘sympathy’. ”
Ok I’m going to have to shout now. I HAVE SAID TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT ISRAEL IS USING DISPROPORTIONATE FORCE? Did you hear me?
“Yet what? MAGICALLY? we are supposed to imagine this mindset, that has not budged one iota in decades”
Removal of every Jew from Gaza, Yitzhak Rabin? Just 2 examples of how they have budged substantially in recent years? Or do these not count?
“What are we supposed to make your obvious intellectual blinkers? Naive at best…. but very repetitive here & 100% avoiding the REAL, HARD questions that need to be answered to find a peaceful resolution.”
ANd here we go again … my opinion differs, so you resort to calling me naive. I don’t see any questions from you … just rants. I apologise if the only people allowed to comment on a topic are those who have a degree in Politics and a Masters in Peace Negotiations.
“And the MOST OBVIOUS answer of all….”
Grand so … you’ve answered yourself. Well done … pat on the back for being so insiteful.
“Israel needs to have real PRESSURE applied, ostracism if necessary. “
They have been in the past and continue to be ostracised by most of their Arab neighbours. Has this achieved anything?
“A change is needed…. a radical one. Not a chance that will come from openly ‘Nazi’ coalition gov in Israel.”
Well that’s great Mike. “A change is needed” … brilliant. And the Nobel Peace Prize goes to Mike. Where are your suggestions to actually bring about peace? This is the question you constantly avoid.
Israel the jig is up, you have exposed yourselves as murderers of a nation you hold captive. Nobody in their right mind supports you. Palestinians, Hamas does not love you or care for you or your children although it might feel like the last organization you can trust seeing as the world sees but does nothing.
Deborah, what about Syria and the 2,000 dead Palestinians there? Why aren’t you out marching on the Syrian mission in Dublin and organising a petition to have the Syrian ambassador expelled? Since operation protective edge began, 1,800 Syrians have been murdered by Assad. Where is your moral outrage, or does it only extend to Israel?
Wesole, yesterday you accused me of whataboutary yet today you seem to be doing exactly the same thing!
Nothing whatsboutery about what’s going on in Syria. But it’s not Israel so people don’t care.
Eh how on earth do you know what I do. I have been on a march for Syria for peace. Also a march for the 200 children being held in Nigeria. If I don’t condemn every atrocity in the world I have no right to comment about one in particular? Get over yourself.
Israel is a boil in the middle east that needs to be lanced before they wipe Palestinians of the map completely
So you want to see Israel gone?
@ john, so finish what hitler started? Kill the Jews? That is Hamas’ goal you know, it’s in their charter. You should join them.
I never mentioned killing people of any religion.. you did
@john. You’ll really need to clarify what you mean then. Lancing boils means what exactly?
You need to stop telling people what to do
@john, so the destruction of the country only?
@ John by “lancing” Israel, you would wipe out 45% of Jews in the world. Is that what you want?
Who mentioned wiping out Jews, not me
So clarify your point. Is it just Israel that should be eradicated and the people sent elsewhere?
What people moved elsewhere?
@ John are the Israelis not people? You’re not making sense
They wouldn’t be israelis anymore, they would all be Palestinians not matter what religion they are
@ John – so you want Israel to be destroyed and for Israel, Gaza & the West Bank to become an atheist Palestine?
What has the invisible sky daddy got to do with it?
Ignore John. He left his lance comment and is now beating a hasty retreat. Silly shrill coward.
@ John – are all the surrounding muslim countries to be made atheist too? Or is it just the jewish one?
As I’ve said before, if the the power was reversed there wouldn’t be one Jew left in Israel. Home goal John. Well done!
@Gillian.
and if my aunt had b**ls, she would be my uncle.
We are not dealing in hypotheses here. There are people dying
@ Yossi – you have to admit that John’s comment was ill thought out. Everyone knows there are people dying. But most civilized people believe that Israel (regardless of who is right on how it began) has the right to exist and that there are many many Israelis who have also suffered and just want peace. According to John, Israel should be 100% Palestinian. Does anyone else seriously agree with him?
Jenni by saying that most “civilized ” people recognize Israel’s right to exist you have left yourself open to a whole world of criticism! If people object to the State of Israel then they must be “uncivilized” or in German “Untermensch”. See where I am going with this. Unfortunetly there are too many pro Israelis with this attitude though to be fair I wouldn’t put you in that category based on your posts.
Brian – thank you for not tarring me with the same brush as everyone else. In fairness we are all different parts of the spectrum so I appreciate your acknowledgement of that.
“Civilized” was a poor choice of words … you know what I meant though?
@Yossi. Do you acknowledge that that “hypotheses” is why those people are dying? The sentiment in Johns comment, the hatred in how he sees Israeli people should be dealt with is very real in Palestine.
I did but don’t worry you are not the first to use the wrong turn of phrase! The Israeli forigen minister said on Sky News that the palestinians were committing “self genocide”! As one news reporter said “at least he admits it’s genocide”.
The deaths of so many Palestinians has nothing to do with rockets being fired,which are easily defendable. The murder of the 3 Israeli boys is what this is all about probably. That’s the way they do business kill 3 of our innocents and we will kill 100s of yours,at this rate it could be thousands.
No it’s not… The rockets from Hamas started way before those deaths.
Jenni you are wrong their. Hamas didn’t fire rockets until the deaths of the 3 teens it was Islamic Jihad.
@ Brian you’re right… It was the innocent civilians and not necessarily Hamas who were rocketing Israel
Jenni, if you don’t want to accept my research then perhaps maybe the Times of Israel might be a bit more unbiased in your view.
“Hamas fires rockets for first time since 2012, Israeli officials say
Read more: Hamas fires rockets for first time since 2012, Israeli officials say | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-fired-rockets-for-first-time-since-2012-israeli-officials-say/#ixzz38BYx3MUv
Brian I was being sarcastic as in Islamic Jihad are not exactly innocent bystanders, but I do understand your point
When Israel had the cease fire Hamas started it up again firing rockets into Israel, what would you do if you were the Israelites? I know I would fire back, Hamas need to be stopped, they are the terrorists…
No point talking about that Janice, the people here are not pro Palestinian, just anti Israeli.
@ Janice I think some people think the rockets are like paper airplanes…
@Janice.
When Hamas had the ceasefire Israel started shelling artillery rounds into Gaza. What would you do if you were a Palestinian?
And around and around, the circular arguments go.
Have you actually seen the rockets Jenni? Genuine question
But Janice why are Palestine shooting mortors into Israel?
My knowledge was quite limited on this area/conflict until recently when I decided to read up on it but it seems to me from a totaly neutral starting point that Israel has basically robbed the Palestinians land and caused them to become a third world country and a lesser people within their own ever shrinking boarders.
I know if that happened to me I would react the same, so what is Israel’s justification?
Also considering what many of the isrealites history is I am totaly shocked at how their current behaviour replicates such a horrible time they suffered at the hands of Hitler but yet they continue doing what they are doing.
@ yossi… Yes & I’ve seen the destruction that they cause too
@ Paul
Palestine back in the early 1900′s was just an area and not a country. It was a mostly barren land. My grandad in law would say he’s from Palestine in South Syria. He’s 90 and Jewish. There is confusion as to what Palestine originally was.
The original plan was a split between an Arab land and a Jewish land. The West Bank and Egypt were under Egyptian & Jordanian rule. The land that Israel now stands on is tiny in comparison to the original plan.
And remember they won the West Bank and Gaza in a defensive war but agreed to give them back in return for the surrounding Arab nations to merely recognise their right to exist. Every Arab country refused this deal.
@Jenni
So you will admit that the majority of them (and this is by no means a way of belittleing them or their potential) are back yard made with old street signs used as guidance fins.
One of them landed (direct hit) on the security post of the entrance to the marina in Ashkelon a while back. Security guard suffered from shock, but other than that, was thankfully, fine.
@jenni
Thanks for the reply.
Again I will mention that I came into this topic from a neutral view point.
I am unsure to the legitimacy of your comment from my research it was not just a barren nameless unoccupied land.
But from your viewpoint who gave the isrealites the land?
You say remember they won they land in a defensive war but we’re kind enough to offer them back for recognition, well that sounds great and awful biased what I need to ask is, who gave them a right to that land to offer back or control in the first place?
Why did the Arab nations refuse them?
Also why over the past number of years has Israel continued to take more and more of the Palestinians land and resources away from them?
Can’t you see any justification in Palestinians fighting back for their homes? I will agree that they are not innocent in all of this also by the way.
Would you say that the Irish are terrorists due to how we fought the English for our land back?
Again I would just be interested to hear your viewpoint as your Obv a pro Israel and have a good knowledge of their point of view
@Jenni.
Even Benny Morris, (Israeli Historian who is very pro Israel) debunked the myth that Palestine was, as you say, ‘a barren land’.
It was far from that. It was a bustling area and had a large population. This was going against the story that Palestine was a land without a people for a people without a land. There are many accounts of the area from the late 1800′s as a populous area with a large agriculture economy.
@Jenni
There are aslo several areas that are considered ‘disputed land’.
These were areas that were fought to a stalematebetween the hagannah and the egyptians and both sides decided to call a ceasefire and agreed to withdraw all military forces for decision by the UN at a later date. Letters of agreement were served from both sides to the UN and once the Egyptian army moved out, the Israeli army moved in immediately and physically forced many of the local residents out and told the rest they would be shot if they didnt move of their own accord.
It was an arab land, controlled by, surprise, surprise, the british empire. In 1900 it was was as arab as ireland was catholic in the 80′s with 2 or 3 out of every hundred person being jewish, and usually arab jewish at that. Land was then owned by the people. In 1917 the british parliament passed the balfour act. This encouraged jewish immigrants fleeing persecution in eastern europe to go to palestine. This was done as a control against the influx of said immigrants into britain as anti-semitism was rife, but then again racism against anyone not english was(we know this first hand).
So as the years went on, the jewish population in palestine grew. Its very similar to the plantation of ireland in that a foreign people soon started to gain power in the native arabs lands. When ww2 had come to its end the influx of jews had become a deluge. The british empire also started to crumble. As the british tried to hold onto power there were challenges to its authority across what remained in the empire. In palestine the jewish population were involved in an armed campaign, started in 1938, which based its operations on irish guerrilla warfare tactics. It was the minority and it was carrying out what today would be considered terrorist activities in a land they had started colonising less than 30 years before hand. The british had planned to give a state to the palestinian majority but after a campaign of murder and violence they decided they wanted out. They left in 1948 and the new
@ Paul
No worries
“from your viewpoint who gave the isrealites the land?”
In my opinion, it dates back to theOttoman Empire and the Balfour declaration in 1917
“His Majesty’s government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country”
“they won they land in a defensive war but we’re kind enough to offer them back for recognition, well that sounds great and awful biased what I need to ask is, who gave them a right to that land to offer back or control in the first place?”
It’s not bias! It’s history! The day after the country was ratified by the UN (like many other countries that have been ratified by the UN), they were attacked by the surrounding nations. These nations fully expected to win but they lost and they lost land to Israel. Israel offered to give back the West Bank and Gaza in return for recognition!
“Why did the Arab nations refuse them?”
Because they see the Jews as many of us see the travelers i.e. not in our back garden thanks
“Also why over the past number of years has Israel continued to take more and more of the Palestinians land and resources away from them?”
Can we just take one example for now? Less than 10 years ago when the IDF pulled die-hard jews off synagogue roofs in Gaza as Israel uprooted its settlements, expelled its citizens, withdrew its military and turned every inch of Gaza over to the Palestinians, there was no blockade. On the contrary. Israel wanted this new Palestinian state to succeed. To help the Gaza economy, Israel gave the Palestinians its 3,000 greenhouses that had produced fruit and flowers for export. It opened border crossings and encouraged commerce.The whole idea was to establish the model for two states living peacefully and productively side by side. Simultaneously, Israel dismantled four smaller settlements in the northern West Bank as a clear signal of Israel’s desire to leave the West Bank too and thus achieve an amicable two-state solution. But how did the Gaza Palestinians react to having an independent territory? First, they demolished the greenhouses. Then they elected Hamas. Then, instead of building a state with its attendant political and economic institutions, they spent the better part of a decade turning Gaza into a massive military base, brimming with terror weapons, to make ceaseless war on Israel.
They built mile upon mile of underground tunnels to hide their weapons and their military commanders.
“Can’t you see any justification in Palestinians fighting back for their homes? ”
Of course I can. The innocent civilians are entitled to their own safe state with a booming economy, etc. I just can’t see how this can be achieved by firing rockets though. Why not demand an election (there hasn’t been one since 2006) and elect a centralist government who are willing to make peace?
“Would you say that the Irish are terrorists due to how we fought the English for our land back?”
There were terrorists on both sides of our war too … Trust me I donut think Israel are a night shining example here.
@ Yossi
I think the rockets are ridiculous. Even West Bank leader Mahmoud Abbas has asked: “What are you trying to achieve by sending rockets?” It makes no sense. Unless you understand, as a Washington Post editorial explained, that the whole point is to draw Israeli counterfire.
The balfour act was more a racist attempt to curb jewish immigration into the uk. And yet again another part of the world is a war torn wasteland as a legacy of british rule. The point you are trying to justify is like trying to justify the theft of land of the irisha and use of it to plant ulster in the 16 century. you cant reverse it but it doesnt make it right.
@ Yossi
And an eye witness from the 1937 Report of the Palestine Royal Commission:
“The road leading from Gaza to the north was only a summer track
suitable for transport by camels and carts . . . no orange groves, orchards
or vineyards were to be seen until one reached Yabna village. . . . Not
in a single village in all this area was water used for irrigation. . . .
Houses were all of mud. No windows were anywhere to be seen. . . .
The ploughs used were of wood. . . . The yields were very poor. . . .
The sanitary conditions in the village were horrible. Schools did not
exist. . . . The rate of infant mortality was very high. . . .
The area north of Jaffa . . . consisted of two distinctive parts. . . . The
eastern part, in the direction of the hills, resembled in culture that of the
Gaza-Jaffa area. . . . The western part, towards the sea, was almost a
desert. . . . The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many
ruins of villages were scattered over the area, as owing to the prevalence
of malaria, many villages were deserted by their inhabitants.”
And from Mr . Lewis French, Director of Development appointed by the British Government in 1931:
“We found it inhabited by fellahin who lived in mud hovels and suffered
severely from the prevalent malaria. . . . Large areas of their lands were
uncultivated and covered with weeds. There were no trees, no vegetables.
The fellahin, if not themselves cattle thieves, were always ready to harbour
these and other criminals. The individual plots of cultivation
changed hands annually. There was little public security, and the fellahin’s
lot was an alternation of pillage and blackmail by their neighbours
the Bedouin.”
The indigenous person was indeed being dispossessed, but by their fellow-Arabs: the local sheikh and village elders, the Government tax-collector, the merchants and money-lenders; and, when he was a tenant-farmer (as was usually the case), by the absentee-owner. By the time the season’s crop had been distributed among all these, little if anything remained for him and his family, and new debts
generally had to be incurred to pay off the old. Then the Bedouin came along and took their “cut”, or drove the palestinian off the land altogether.
When the jews started coming in (having been made refugees themselves … 900,000 were turfed out of surrounding areas), many arabs stayed as they were promised work.
Jenni, ‘The land that Israel now stands on is tiny in comparison to the original plan.’
Incorrect, after the Arab-Israeli War the Israelis took 60% of the land that the UN had set aside for an Arab State, now, either you’re not being truthful, or you’re just being wilfully ignorant.
@ Gaius … you mean “won” right?
I can see this needs a repost here….
Israel do not have the slightest intention of reaching any ‘deal’ where Palestinians have independence or autonomoy on any of their land. Nor have they ever had, with the brief exception of Prime Minister Rabin who was assasinated by right wing political opponents for his trouble.
Of course, no ‘official’ Israeli policy is allowed to be explicit about this, even whilst there are Knesset MPs from parties like Jewish Home, in Netanyahu’s coalition gov, who have openly suggested that all Palestinians, including women & children should be killed. Especially Internationally, the propaganda fiction is to be maintained that were it not for Hamas, or some sprurious reason, Israel would have settled some ‘two state’ solution years ago.
Or at the very least maintaining the fiction that Israel believes that Palestinians have at least some right to exist somewhere in Palestine.
But when it comes to the stated or endorsed positions of major (very likely Israeli gov funded?) Israeli lobbying (propaganda) operations, like European Coalition for Israel (ECI), their true position is not hard to find.
And it quite explicitly states that Israel, as founded, was always intended to comprise, & ‘legally’ does, all of Palestine, including the West Bank and Gaza.
No mention is made as to the fate of the indiginous people of these areas, or any part of Palestine. Or even recognition of them. The parallel with the ‘untermenschen’ of Nazism is quite striking.
This is about as plain a statment as it gets that Israel’s true position (the unchallenged, implicitly endorsed position of its International lobbying/propaganda effort) is that Palestinians have no right whatever to exist in the land of Palestine that have inhabited for hundreds of generations at least.
Besides claiming that a ‘conference’ aspiration – the so called ‘San Remo’ agreement of 1922 – is the basis for this, I kid you not… the ‘word of God’ is also invoked as justification for this naked land grab, ethnic cleansing & mass murder of children & whole families. Here:
quote
“…When the State of Israel was declared at the end of the British Mandate period, it became the
fulfilment of the Mandate for Palestine, which had been created in order to bring about this
outcome in due course. Although the manner by which the fulfilment came about left much to
be desired, the Jewish State of Israel was what was envisaged by the writers of the San Remo
Agreement nearly thirty years earlier…
Effectively, this was recognised by the United Nations
when it accepted Israel into membership on 11th May 1949……”
So you see, Israel’s true position is that it is the Palestinians who are (‘illegally’) occupying Israeli land, therefore Israel is not an Occupying Force in the West Bank, Gaza, or anywhere else. Oh, and ‘God’ is on their side too….
I repeat for the benefit of deluded clowns (or closet Israeli propaganda shills?) like Jenni Harrison et al…. all your guff as apologist for this slaughter, and suggesting that all that is needed is just to tease out some hithertoo hidden ‘formula’ or ‘process’ toward a ‘two state solution’ without major international pressure and sanctions on Israel, is nothing more than a clear invitation for Israel to carry on with its de facto ethnic cleansing, mass murder and land theft program.
That is, the most disgusting support for War Criminals.
That’s not what happened, is it yossi??
Will you be organising one to have the Syrian ambassador expelled also? 1800 dead Syrians since Protective Edge began. Syria are also responsible for the deaths of 2000 Palestinians. Assad is way worse. Or does that not suit your anti Israeli agenda?
The article is about Palestine, so stop bringing up other conflicts to try and take away from the murder in Gaza. You are becoming boring
It’s your hypocrisy I’m calling you out on . If you care so much about Palestinians you would be outraged at Syria , but obviously you don’t care about Palestine, you only bash Israel.
Palest iambs refugees also in Syria being slaughtered. But hey, it’s not Israel, so don’t worry.
There isn’t a Syrian embassy in Ireland. You therefore can’t expel the ambassador.
2/2 un stepped in, to to try broker a peace deal. The jewish resistance movement led by ben guyrion seized control and waited nervously for the international community to intervene. But there was no appetite to attack a jewish army after ww2 so they took the land unnopposed. Until the arab neighbours decide to respond. The new ‘israelis’ supplied with weaponry from czechoslavakia and the rest of europe were able to rout the poorly equipped arabs and seize more land.
So began the rape, pillage and plunder. Arab villages bulldozed, people evicted. In 67 an entire village which has existed since the 14th century was bulldozed within 12 hours of victory to create a walkway to the wailing wall.
Now being irish, i may be biased towards people who have their land stolen and then are oppressed, murdered and discriminated against. But this to me has been wrong from the start and i can understand why many arabs dont think israel deserves to exist. This has been the biggest heist in the last 100 years.
To those who will accuse me of wanting to kill jews and wipe israel off the map, i do not. It is too late to undo the great injustice that surrounds the creation of israel. Now the humaintarian thing to do is obey un resolutions. 1967 borders. The withdrawl of idf from palestinian areas and the return of stolen homes. A un peacekeeping and police force and the use of a police force and communities to tackle insurgency groups still intent on violence.
@ Brian
You fail to mention that up to 900,000 jews were also expelled from the surrounding Arab nations at that time and arrived in Israel as refugees. They were absorbed into Israel as citizens, whereas the Arab refugees were left in Transjordan and refused to accept citizenship of Jordan.
“the return of stolen homes”
With all due respect, this the biggest stumbling block to peace (on BOTH sides). If every grandchild was to return, there just wouldn’t be room.
Do you think the grandchildren of jews who were ousted during WW2 have the right to take back their homes in Germany?
“Now the humaintarian thing to do is obey un resolutions. 1967 borders. The withdrawl of idf from palestinian areas. A un peacekeeping and police force and the use of a police force and communities to tackle insurgency groups still intent on violence.”
I agree with you on this though 100%
Yes jenni. Yes i do.
And yet you defend israels continued defiance of said resolutions and further incursion and land grabbing into gaza. You are clearly an idiot. And what really gets me about you is that you keeps harping on about israels right to defend itself when the only defense to my comment is that 900000 jews where expelled from other arab nations. As if this justifies the theft of land and murder if innocents. Make no mistake, what is going on now is a genocide. An eye for an eye might be okay by the jewish religion but humanity has come further than that. Im more of a fan of turn the other cheek and live and let live. As a consequence there will be never blood on my hands, yours im not so sure.
Really Brian? So “the grandchildren of jews who were ousted during WW2 have the right to take back their homes in Germany?” And what about the innocent German civilians who are living in those houses? Where are they to go?
@ Brian … resorting to name calling – the sign of losing a debate
@brian. I was about to hop up on my desk and shout ‘ oh captain, my captain’
Such noble sentiments. I was inspired till you reached the ‘Jewish religion’ bit.
The lack of blood on your hands will be more than made up for by the jihadi headbangers you forgot to mention in your dirge. You’ve offered the very finest example of moral relativism I’ve seen on this site. Take a bow son.
Hamas need to stop firing rockets at Israel – it is that simple. A ceasefire will follow if the aggressors halt their activity. Hamas are the only party that have refused to stop.
@Banga.
How soon will the ceasefire follow if Hamas stop. An hour, a day, a week. I actually thought Mr Netanyahu said Israel wont stop until Hamas has been completely neutralised.
@banga
You must miss being fognostical, you really must!
Sorry to disappoint you Story but I was never fognostical. You are not too far out however.
He’s Fognostical, Charles, Jaymilireland to name but a few. He might also be Pickarse too
He’s not me
Hulk, you are bang on,
it is the one and only (sort of) Patrck Lyons.
@wesole
That would he the type of army that targets civilian populations with no means of escape. The type that whose aim is clearly not to kill militants but to remove the means for people yo live by destrpying thrir homes schools & hospitals.
“World powers have urged Israel to stop raining bombs down on the Gaza Strip, demands which it has so far resisted”…. Oh wait it didn’t say that….
United Nations of what ? All talk and no action organisation. I’m so sickened, disgusted, appalled – you name it, of what is happening in Gaza, as we all are. Israel seems to have forgotten it’s history!!! Do they really think the children will forget what they have seen and grow up not wanting revenge – ideally yes, but realistically it’s not going to happen. Hate begats hate..What a complete and utter mess!!!
This really really needs to stop. It goes to show how psychopathic our leaders are. British Petroleum (BP) want into Gaza for its massive gas reserves. A contract would only be granted to them through Israeli control of the region. This has nothing to do with terrorism or even Hamas, it’s about natural gas and who owns it.
I’m confused, some people on here are using the JP claims that iron dome intercepts 90% if Hamas rockets as a cast iron fact, but if I quoted the same paper as claiming that Russian backed sepratists downed the Malaysian plane they’d be jumping down my throat ranting about zi onist conspiracies! Oh well, good job I have a life.
Meanwhile, IDF soldiers have put down their Call Of Duty handsets and are only too pleased to be killing real live people. Children, Aid Workers, open season.
The US Veto renders the UN incapable of doing anything that the US doesn’t want to happen, so the outcomes will only reflect what the US elite’s policy makers wish to happen. You can pretty much guess at what those are from Israel’s actions – Gaza is just another test case of World Public Opinion.
@ RH Beige Lark
I argued this point on another thread.
I wonder what would happen if the veto was removed from the permanent security council members and it was a majority decision.
The veto is refusal to abide by Security Council resolutions by disallowing them.
The US would not allow the removal of the veto which they’ve used more times than any other nation since 1966.
have your say