I am delighted with the job announcements , bring on more . There is a long queue. :) Stay positive by all means , but get real ! Vote No .

does every single article have to end up in no pushers trying to force their opinions on ordinary decent folk who can make up their own minds!!

Yep :)
This government have let us down and have proved their serious incompetence.
Anyway , I am only one voice ,but it is serious misrepresentation to ask people to vote yes , to change our constitution on threats , bullying, scare tactics qnd lies. Vote No.

@Paddy – I’m undecided but aren’t the Yes side doing the same thing. Honestly I don;t think anyone knows what will happen. Yes or No its a gamble that may or may not pay off.

On the Yes side the ESM is a fund that does not yet exist, has no money and if Spain go belly when it is there, they will probably bleedit dry leaving nothing for other countries if and when required.

On the No side – if we do need a loan what happens if we cannot get one from the ESM and are force into more austerity to get a second bailout from the IMF, ECB etc..

My biggest concern as an undecided voter is that France and Germany have held off ratifying it and what happens if for some reason they do not ratify it? Enda said that the text will not change from his last meeting, but how can you believe a man that has told so much lies to us in the past.

@chris agree with you post good holes in both arguments, I’m undecided, but the like of the aggressive posts especially on the journal of late sticking Vote No, at the end of every post is just a bit much. even Susie there seems to be really pissed at the government and wants to stick it to them. both sides just seem to be calling each other liars.. and there’s a lot of lies flyin…

Chris, so far only 4 countries have ratified it. One of the four is Greece and look whats happening over there. The Dutch government has fallen because it. The German Joe Soap is getting fed up with bailing out foreign banks and Merkel cannot get her own government to pass it. The yes side keep asking where we are going to get the money for the second bailout (the one Noonan keeps telling us we dont need). The no side are asking where will we get the 11 billion to lodged into the ESM (which will be instantly emptied by Spain). And when the ESM pot is empty we will be told to add even more money into the pot. The other thing about money from the ESM is that any country can veto another country getting money from it. So far this treaty has not resulted in stability.

I think you might be interested in checking out Bondwatch. It contains timetables for when payments (past and future) paid to both secured and unsecured bondholders and how much we have paid out in each traunch. If these payments stop it will reduce out debt and will result in us definitely not needing a 2nd bailout and ease the austerity we and our children will suffer over the coming decades.
http://bondwatchireland.blogspot.com/

Chris @
Growth will not ONLY come from outside the country. The government are doing NOTHING to encourage growth within our borders . What is the government doing for the other 446,000 unemployed people on the dole – apart from issuing passports. Every day I see places where jobs can be created with some creativity. I am not telling lies so I resent being told that I am telling lies. I tell it as I see it . I am nobody’s ”mouthpiece” so refrain from the name calling. I will be voting no as will 4 other members of my family. I have not wound people up , as other people are prone to do here on the journal. I have learned all I know through reading and talking and asking appropriate questions. I have learned that austerity is inevitablew but hy would we want to sign it into our constitution. That is how I see it and That is the reason I will be voting the way I will be voting . So as soon as this is over I am sure we will find more things to discuss. Have a nice day

I think some of the red thumbs might because “thats terrible” :-(. Hope u find work soon Larry

Corporation tax rate, tax breaks and ability to do a double-Irish, a tax strategy where you only pay about 2.4% on your profits.

No media actually go to the trouble of following up on these job announcements. Do they actually materialise, or are they urban myths?

I ask because I do recall one much-hyped announcement a few years back, complete with Gov minister and around 800 jobs for somewhere, where the total hired turned out to be more like 50 in the end. I believe Gov ministers are getting away with lying film-flam because nobody in the media runs any systematic follow-up check to see what actually happens subsequently.

In any event, though those employed may be relieved, 125 jobs is a drop in the ocean compared to the continuing job losses disguised by 1,000 a week emigrating. Yet if one job was offered now, you’d have some minister telling us we are ‘turning the corner’.

There is no uncertainty about the referendum :-)

125 jobs that many people will have emigrated by lunch time this goverment has to go enough of their lies

Unfortunately there are groups on the far left and far right who need instability and a scary economics situation to frighten people into their way of thinking. You see this in Greece now and to a lesser extend here. Good news and stability doesn’t suit their agenda.

you were undercut Larry or they realised a young foreign worker be easier pickings and take the shite more. you get my thumbs up, don’t mind the foreign facebook red thumbers here. like magpies.

Larry
I hope you get a job soon too. I have been accused of not welcoming these jobs as being good news, but I do. My point is that there are people like yourself who really want and need to work but having to wait til the end of 2013 really just is not enough.I just feel there should be more that this government can do and are not doing.. Good luck with the job hunting

Good luck Larry. I was beginning to think I was the only one having this experience. My advice to you is to leave this damned country. I’m completely done with it and just biding my time until I have enough money to set myself up anywhere else. Its tough to have to leave (I’ve done it before and foolishly came back in hope that I could stay here) but there comes a point when enough is enough.

Personal insults lashing aswell. Nothing more than a bunch if Neanderthal bully’s. It’s what the FFFGL are now known for!!

hehe you’ve got to be kidding. I’ve been called more names in here by the no camp on the run up to this treaty than I have in the whole rest of my life.

Sorry to butt in here on this one, but just to say: if you spot any personal abuse then please do press the Report this Comment button (it’s just above the green and red thumbs on the right hand side of a comment). It’s the fastest way to get the attention of one of the staff here who can take down the comment if necessary. We don’t want anyone to feel like they can’t comment or that they’ll face name-calling or abuse just for saying what they think.

shinner!!!

If they hand back the German bank debt, and make a real effort to reform spending and waste in public spending they’d be able to borrow at a reasonable rate. The reason we can’t now is the markets know we can’t pay back what we owe AND were leaking 18billion a year in overspend

We would have to be stern, tell Merkel to write off bank debt, give us LONG term low interest loan for Our debt to allow us to grow! or we default and they lose hundreds of billions instead of making a profit and protecting their low trading currency. Which would you do if you were them?

We could make her an offer she couldn’t refuse. Take back debt lower interest rates or we default and lower corporation tax to 2%

Oh my God . Chuck , I am sincerely sorry to hear this. We need home grown jobs and investment in jobs that are not necessarily ”high end ”. Instead of the government making cuts and trying to bring in outside corporations (which is all very good) but they should invest in the workers already here willing and able to work. Will they ever see sense ? Anyway I seem to be upsetting people with my comments , which means that I am hitting the nail on it’s head .
Chuck , Good luck to you . Sincerely .

We’re too expensive to manufacture in. Most jobs you will see coming on stream will be in the tech and customer service side of things as well as hq being set up for tax reasons.

”

“No provision of this Constitution … prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by bodies competent under that Treaty from having the force of law in the State.”

Tax rates are protected my ass

Scrap. Seriously it is utter nonsense that out corp tax rate is affected by this new treaty. And when I say utter nonsense I mean the kind that is detached from reality. We do not add this treaty to our constitution, only the permission for the government to ratify it. I suspect you know these things but we’ll continue to peddle whatever you’re peddling.

Absolutely right. They do not care how we vote , or if we pay water taxes or household charges . they just in it for the low corporation tax, which as you say is Not protected if this treaty is accepted. The government doing what they do best …..LYING !

If we ratify the austerity treaty does anyone really believe that we will be allowed keep our corporation tax?

As soon as we’re told to up it to appease the French and Germans none of these multinationals will stay, they ain’t here for the brilliant broadband, rail network, health care, weather, infrastructure or the cheap logistical costs…..(which none of this we have)…..They’re here for the low tax and not because of some deluded loyalty to us.

Does anyone here actually run a multinational corporation or are we just guessing as to what they look for when they invest?

Dermot. I’m really sick of this. There is no mechanism for anyone to make us change our corp tax. Fact.

Yeah yeah yeah…still in denial about the corporation tax I see.
No sooner than it was “protected” under “legally binding guarantees” with the Lisbon part two referendum that it came up for discussion again….it’s cute you still believe that your “european partners” will allow us access to funds, continue the failed austerity and keep a low corporation tax which is perceived as unfair by the French and Germans…..

No David, but let me guess..you are in fact CEO of some large multinational and you’re here for the ambience and not the low tax eh?

hear hear many of us are noticing this you ain’t the only one ;)

Even if a person is not Irish, you know they are going to have to spend in the local economy so its not all bad if an Irish person doesn’t fill a position.

(fat fingered it sorry)

Suppose for a minute that this tech sector growth we’re seeing helps lift overall growth to a point where the govt CAN go back to the markets and we don’t need to access the ESM. If that happens we’ll be going to the markets alright, to borrow billions to sink into the ESM for Spain and Italy to squander

What jobs exactly do you mean from yesterday? Here’s the report about Bloxham: http://www.thejournal.ie/central-bank-orders-bloxham-to-cease-all-regulated-activities-immediately-465624-May2012/. We didn’t use a photo of Noonan for that because he had no involvement in the story. In this case, Bruton had commented on the story and was involved, so we used a photo of him.

There are 40 people out of work as a result of that closedown, according to the Irish Times.

I know you are following journalistic convention in putting Ministers’ pictures on stories of new jobs but wouldn’t it be more equitable, better journalism, to ask a Minister for a quote on each job closure and illustrate that with a pic.

There are enough news media already acting as PR agencies for politicians – and I freely admit that The Journal is the least guilty.

Regards
WP

The problem there is that very often Ministers won’t comment on job losses, unless it’s a huge number of jobs or else it’s in their own constituency. We do still ask, but that’s the reason why we don’t always get them.

More jobs have been created than lost recently, and they are good jobs too. Can we not have some positivity in here.

Gary.
I personally know 15 people who lost their jobs last week, all from different areas of employment but they’re just another statistic which will hardly make the front pages of the papers….maybe if they all worked in the same place they might have filled up some column space but week in week out I hear of more people who are getting laid off and that’s just me and my circle of friends.
Everybody who comments here, everybody in the country knows people who are losing jobs….add them people together and you will get a very large number of people.
Announcements of 125 jobs in Dublin is good news for the people who manage to secure one of them but it will offset by the numerous individual cases of job loss throughout the state.

This drip feed of a few jobs here, a few jobs there is good news but not good enough, we need a complete redirection of policy towards growth and jobs and not continue the crippling policies of cuts and austerity where the creation of 125 jobs is just another chance for Bruton to get his face in the paper and try assure us that FG’s austere policies are working……well i’m sorry FG, it’s not working and the inevitability of a 2nd bailout is proof that it’s not working.

I’m assuming the red thumbs are from people who believe a change in policy towards jobs and growth is not a good idea……ah well, those ostriches will no doubt be calling for a proper job strategy, less austerity and policies of growth when their FFG/Labour clowns are back warming the opposition benches..what with FFG historically being a one term government.

Dermot. “More jobs have been created than lost recently” I don’t make the figures.

This is the best bit: “The 125 new positions will be created between now and the end of 2013.”
By then, hopefully, this government will be signing on as well.
Oh no, I forgot, they’ll have big pensions from the public purse.

The above jobs will materialise between now and the end of 2013….Another reason to celebrate this governments competance.

Don’t vote No on that basis please^ the treaty is about alot more than that…

Susie – did you get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning? Thanks also for your advise on how to vote! Ms. Negative ……

She got out of the usual side of the bed because she is always this miserable. She is a mouthpiece for the NO to everything side so any good news upsets her as she likes to be miserable and is only happy when moaning and complaining.

David + Orion
Good Morning :)
Austerity is guaranteed ! However the depth and extent will be extreme if this treaty is accepted . What will happen when the structural deficit is reduced to 0.5% and we can not make it . Not only will we have to make 6 billilon worth of cuts but what about the fines we will receive when we default on the structural deficit ….. Not to mention the fact that unelected (unknown) overseers will be brought in to supervise our budget…. My vote will still be NO. Greed is the impetus behind this Treaty and Greed is the impetus pushing the yes vote. People who are barely affected by the austerity we are already suffering want us to vote yes to keep their salaries high . Vote No.

Gentle men
Sticks and stones etc…. You know how it goes . Have a lovely day , you all have made mine :) :) :) :) But I have to go now . Chat later .

End of 2013 !!!! They didn’t announce how many jobs will be lost between now and the end of 2013. VOTE NO

Go Susie :) http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=152239304906792&set=a.152239251573464.32190.100003621698833&type=3&theater

“Another reason to celebrate this governments competance.”

government’s

competence

Sheesh.

Damocles
That should read **incompetance .**…
This government are anything BUT competent . Thanks for pointing out my typo :)

“That should read **incompetance .**…”

incompetEnce

If you’re going to accuse someone of incompetence, at least do it competently.

Damocles
Ha ha . I was concentrating on spelling your name correctly !
Another typo ….. Ah well , You got the point tho’ ! :)

So incompetent they managed to ensure in excess of 4k jobs. Hrmmmmm.

Susie, structural defecit rules under the treaty aren’t enforceable until 2019 so we won’t be pulling out the phantom 6 bn anytime soon. That gives us 7 years for growth and inflation to significantly reduce the burden. You do want growth Susie?

O’Reilly
Growth will not ONLY come from outside the country. The government are doing NOTHING to encourage growth within our borders . What is the government doing for the other 446,000 unemployed people on the dole – apart from issuing passports. Every day I see places where jobs can be created with some creativity. I am not telling lies so I resent being told that I am telling lies. I tell it as I see it . I am nobody’s ”mouthpiece” so refrain from the name calling. I will be voting no as will 4 other members of my family. I have not wound people up , as other people are prone to do here on the journal. I have learned all I know through reading and talking and asking appropriate questions. I have learned that austerity is inevitable but why would we want to sign it into our constitution. That is how I see it and That is the reason I will be voting the way I will be voting . So as soon as this is over I am sure we will find more things to discuss. Have a nice day !

Susie, this treaty does not change our constitution. It will not be enshrined in our constitution. It has nothing to do in any way, shape or form with the Irish Constitution.

O’Reilly
I am worried that this is what you believe . You are quite gullible when it comes to what the puppet masters tell you.
You should go and have a nice hot cup of tea and relax, don’t worry your head about any of it and do as you are told by Enda and the boys.

Surely the recent jobs have nothing to do with a Yes vote. Just more of hte YES/No bashing,

Sure I might as well say “Great Weather at the moment Vote Yes for more”

They have been flowing for a while now.. apparently not waiting on the vote so that’s another big scare tactic exposed.

Because Fine Gael say vote yes I am definitely voting NO.