Now that would be brilliant. That would really show the public what he’s like.

GRA protest at pay talks ‘a bad day’ for Garda reputation: Shatter

Fine Gael/Labour a bad 30 years for Ireland.
Fine Gael/Labour = Fianna FAIL

God help this country, it’s amazing that there is NO mention of pay cuts for the political ELITE
Shame on them all

Shatter is a disgrace. Everyday he and his colleagues are a let down! The gra have been backed into a corner, their actions a last resort.

Unfortunately would not be allowed.They have GRA and AGSI muzzled..I am amazed they have let free speech go this far…Get ready for the Big Stick to come down. Important that Garda associations stand together when it happens. Make no mistake the govt politicans are seething with Garda associations. An example is when PJ Stone on Pat Kenny this morning the Dept of Justice took the unprecedented step of e mailing the Pat kennty show while he was on air to try to spin. It is sickening but censorship is one of the tools they will use.

That is something you will never see as the man just refuses to hear any view but his own as he spits out the same phrases and soundbites ad nauseum last month it was the success of operation fiacla this month return to the talks all the while blaming the garda commissioner for station closures and the FF govt for this round of cuts.

The Taoiseach admitted to Michael Martin that morale is low but Arrogant Al just talks away as if nothing is wrong in some misguided belief that he can shame the Gardai back in to talks. This approach he has taken has done nothing but get members backs up and strengthen the resolve against any possible pay cuts. No doubt they thought that Gardai would roll over but from initial observations they are very worried and carrying out a propaganda war in an effort to discredit any action taken to prevent a pay cut. Thankfully the public have seen through it and our colleagues in the 24/7 Alliance are shoulder to shoulder with us. As Senator John Whelan said this week in the Seanad “Even Stalin couldn’t turn a Sunday in to a Monday” yet the Minister for Cuts, Minister Howlin is seeking to do exactly that.

If Al wants to save a few bob why not cancel the trip to Mali for the Army, can we honestly afford that expense. Lets get rid of the Govt jets and lets examine the 640m we are giving in Overseas Aid. Let Minister Burton make a serious effort at tackling welfare fraud, let the politicians lead by example and take a wage more befitting the size of our nation. Get rid of the grossly overpaid advisers who recently got raises which beggars belief. Tackle the outrageous Free Legal Aid scheme and make it more cost effective but of course Al won’t tackle his own will he. The whole thing has echoes of Haughey telling us to “tighten our belts” except this time its the other party telling us the same. When all these things are done come back and ask me for a wage cut and I might consider it but until then I remain in opposition.

And Shatter has the temerity to say that those who verbally assail the taoiseach as disgraceful. I really now do believe that this government is completely out of touch, not only with the electorate, but with reality in general.

Cracking post billy

If your going to make a point by all means so so but leave the army out of it .

Jack I have the height of respect for the army but can the country afford a mission to Mali is all I am saying

I understand what your saying about the army deployment to Mali billy but that’s a decision made by the politicians not the PDF , I admire what the GRA are trying to achieve for its members and I’m sure if they have the resolve to hold out along with the AGSI they will win the day. At least somebody is representing the Garda , as for the defence forces we’re f****d. The sooner shatter goes back to chasing ambulances the better.

Knowing you Christy I’d say it would be a hum-dinger

I know the feeling Christy. There’s so much we could say!

Ye should be able to say whatever ye bloody like without any repercussions. Bout time an garda siochana management (commissioner) started backing his own if ye can’t speak out yourselves. Mr. Callinan and Shatter would want to take a big hard look in the mirror and realise they are a disgrace to the justice system. And what the people of Ireland work so hard for, peace and security.

Costed alternatives is not on the political agenda running the country into the ground for the Banks and ryding off into the sunset is.

Jack
Would you please try again. I believe that everyone is entitled to make their point but it has to be in English .

Gabh mo leithsceal Rogers? ….. y’aul wally brain! :-)

Why is he causing such upheaval? He is the Minister for justice not for finance. He needs a kick up the backside then spray spray spray! No confidence.

@ Richard, I fully understood it, are you compromised in some way ?

Rogers.. you the man !!!!

Your right jack the government don’t like alternative, they rather austerity. They would rather take food from the mouths of children then look at alternatives.

If something isn’t working there has to be an alternative ! it is clear our government are sticking with the cut cut cut and tax tax tax tactic.

No matter what the consequences

They don’t care

Performance Related Pensions would shake them up ohhh ya.

Performance related pay would shake them up even more ohhhhh ya

@ roger,
Cen fath ? Is teanga eoraipeach e …ce is cuma liom faoi sin.
Is teanga an saorstat freisin.. agus sin an rud ata cuma liom!
is eireannach thu Roger ?, mar muna bfhuil, nil aon vota agat agus mar sin is cuma ceard ata le ra leat! …
Sin a dthuigim! agus is leor liom e a ra tri gaeilge agus tri bearla faoin dli mBunreacht na hEireann!

An bhfuil cead agam dul go dti an leithreas?

Performance related everything!

Can’t understand that comment

Robbie knowing your fierce look I’d say some union head saw you and just got afraid, fair play to ye I believe it was brass monkey weather there.

as a citizen of this nation ; why are you sitting on your hands ….there are several constitutional issues with the way this state is being run at all levels ….you swore an oath to protect the state …the state is it’s people , those people have one protection against the massive debt being run up at ours and yours expense ! ………..
talk is cheap ….
here’s an honest question G.R.A. ; are you in this for your own garda income or are you in this for the future of the state ……
just asking because if you’re in it for yourselves then you are no better than the government …if you are in it for the decent people that are here to stay then I will back you to the hilt !
just asking ..because no one else is …it’s a fair question and if garda want to red flag I appreciate your right to do so …. but it’s a framed question designed for the truth and if you are really garda then you should know this … you are trained in questioning after all ……..no offence and if you take it that’s your decision

Spot on Robbin was about to aske the same question, the only mention of abuse in any report came from the ambulance chaser himself.

You can be sure media would have been all over anything even remotely like a use had it occurred (not that it would)

The man is rattled.

I’d say this is why Shatter hates the Gardai.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/shatters-wife-in-drinkdriving-ban-26709770.html

Just one of them

One paid up member of a drunken and utterly corrupt collection of overpaid bureaucrats pissing on about a loss of reputation. Seems to have forgotten the night his associates got pissed in the Dail bar and staggered out onto the floor of the national parliament with a plan to utilize legislation to defraud the Irish nation of €100 billion+ with the farce that was the IBRC bill.

Head on back into the Dail bar with that degenerate selection of associates you suck scotch with and together you can plan your next great legislatively sanctioned scam to defraud a nation of another €100 billion.

Reputation my arse. What would an Irish politician know about the value of or the integrity inherent in the concept of preserving such a thing as a reputation.

This minster claimed that the rise in rural burglaries was down to the improved road structure.
The man is a joke.

Sharter is at it again.
What an idiot.
Don’t forget to get your roots and spray tan done Alan.
You have to go on RTE and spout garbage.
While your countrymen/women drowned in the debts of criminal banks.
Clear off into your retirement and fat pension!!
We have had enough of your sort!!
“You’re Welcome”

Regardless of private v public sector debate, EVERYONE has a right to protest. And there should – and will be – much more of it.

It’s just spin spin spin cut cut cut from shatter, no media outlet seems to pick up the fact that the GRA and AGSI, as you so rightly pointed out, cannot take part in the talks anyway, why is this not relayed to the media or are the media being brainwashed by the spin?

So to sum up Shatter, if u disagree or question Govt, Kenny, u are disrectful, and bring shame to your organization.

Is it any wonder they walk out of so called discussions!

I wonder is this the same type of obedience our deluded minister for “justice” wants from our Garda, similar to the obedience that our government extends to our euro overlords??

Well said mr Gallagher

Exactly this spin is driving me mad, the GRA are left outside the door during the talks

might I suggest that he is merely getting a message out there to discredit the protest! ………. It’s some democracy if the very guardians of the peace can’t have their voice heard in an equal and open forum; regardless of the grievance……………
What’s next ? ……..

and this is the thing …it will be an equally bad day for the country !……….

I genuinely think that the AGS is held in high regard by the public at large (and rightfully so). However militancy at this stage would be completely self defeating. It may have worked in the past but there is 0 general public support for these actions. The private sector taxpayer is finding a voice and Fine Gael T.D’s are becoming emboldened by public support to break the unions. If the GRA continue to rock the boat (whatever the relative merits of doing so are and if I were a member of AGS I might hold the viewpoint that they were within their rights) I genuinely believe it will be to the detriment of its members.

John,0 public support? I think your wrong there,everyone i know support the Guards and other frontline workers.

Have to disagree Norman. And I think if you were honest with yourself you would admit that the public don’t support militancy by public sector unions, unfortunately there is just too many people who are suffering a lot more , and just to say I have genuine heartfelt sympathy for those in the public sector caught with massive mortgages, I just feel that it is a societal issue that has to be dealt with on an overall and equitable basis with no group getting preferential treatment. For your average taxpayer supporting militant public sector unions would be like a turkey voting for christmas.

John,my family,friends and everyone i work with has voiced their support for the Guards and others.I believe the reason is they believe that when the government is finished with this group,they’re next.
Lastly this is what i have experienced,if your experience of support for the Guards is different thats fine but don’t generalise.

If you read my post you will see that I state that the public respect the guards but have no sympathy for militant action.

john …they have sympathy from me for “militant action” ……….. but I would hardly describe not using your own car or your own phone or laptop as militant action…………… just making the point as a member of the public who has no relation in the garda force ….unless you count a second cousin that I only see and talk to at family funerals as a relation.

Define militancy? A lawful protest and one been done inside the laws afforded to every other citizen of the state, except of course a member of AGS, passive militancy?

A hell of a lot less.

pat…the country is rotten to the core in my opinion …… and there are alot of decent honest people in all walks of life getting a hammering while certain individuals at the top are “cleaning up” ….the question is do we as a nation fix the problem or do we all remain in our factions fighting for our own bit …I’m a farmer and I have to supply an industry that has allowed a cheaper product directly distort my ability to make a living …….and the I.F.A. …well they are not exactly stinging the processors or supermarkets with ridicule or law–suits for that matter ….what’s wrong …I don’t know but I can have a damn good guess!
And do you know what the beauty of the whole thing is that the farmers have to pay for the vets directly to inspect these companies …value for money?….breach of contract ? ……
the reason I bring up the meat crisis is because there has been nobody arrested yet and that’s the gardais job …not criticising but just letting you know that when we complained nobody listened …… why should we listen to you now ….we want to by the way …but !

seeing as this country has turned into a pantomime “Oh yes he can!”

But ‘oh no he won’t’.

http://www.nospinireland.com/Gardai.html
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-pension-worth-11m-26518918.html

There you go

So John let me get this straight you are happy with 17 secretary generals are receiving a salary of €227912 plus expenses p/a each. When they retire each will get a one off payment of €341,868 and then receive a pension of €114,000. Their pension should be their salary and before people start jumping on the bandwagon and saying this will only make a small dent in the billion yes I know that but they need to start from the very top and work their way down to the bottom.

@ John a Garda can retire at 50 yrs old once 30 yrs service is complete. Taking the average life expectancy of a male is say 90 yrs that amounts to €25,000 a yr of a pension. Doesn’t look as appealing now as a €1 million pension pot reported in the Indo.

Under the old roster system it was noticed the average life expectancy of a retired member was 5 yrs. The GRA campaigned Governments for years to set up an investigation which was ignored.

Adrian the value of a pension is what it would cost you in real money terms to purchase that stream of income in the form of annuity. i.e if you rang Irish Life on Monday and said I would like to buy a pension of 25,000 for the rest of my life and I am 50 years of age they would tell you that it will cost you an up front payment of circa 1.02 m , the rest is made up of the lump sum (which as it is tax free adds about 5k per year to the salary scales you see above in my mind) . That is how pensions work in the real world. The only difference being that if a private sector worker has a pension pot of that amount he would have to pay 5k a year in the government levy (which is a much much more unfair than the pension levy as the pension levy is merely a small contribution to the very large cost of a defined benefit pension) . Still think it is equitable? Look at it this way The average basic of a guard is 44k a year over 30 years, then you have 40 years (using gyour numbers) at 25k a year and a lump sum of 80k. If you do the math and ignore premium payments and overtime then you would arrive at a cost to the state of circa 70,000 per year of service (and that is taking out the non contributory pension that you would get when you hit 66). That 70,000 per year of service for your average guard is a hell of a lot of money for this country to spend and (the figure does not even include allowances or premium pay but I imagine that this would be somewhat offset by the pension levy so I have excluded them however if you did the actual math I imagine that the 70,000 would actually rise a but more). On top of that the private sector pension is subject to the pension contribution, huge admin fees and the volatility of the market, the public sector pension is guaranteed by the state. Maybe think of that next time you argue that AGS members are getting a raw deal.

And what to Gardaí do to earn that pension? For the vast majority of them they work at least 30 years, during which they work a roster where they’re in around the clock, seven days a week. They miss weekends, holidays, birthdays. They get assaulted and threatened on a regular basis. They expose themselves to danger on the roads, witness first-hand the results of fatal accidents & suicides then have to break the sad news to relatives. All of this is accepted by members going into the job, but so too was the recompense. No one seemed to have anything to say about public sector wages & pensions during the boom, except to laugh at people who joined. Now that the greed of some in the private sector has reduced the country to penury, it seems some people have taken to attributing the ills of the state to the public sector worker & acts like their remuneration was some sort of secret. The public sector didn’t cause the crash, we’ve suffered along with everyone else but we’re not going to be the scapegoat for the nation’s economic ills.

PJ I am in no way trying to undermine the good work done by the defence forces. I have worked side by side with its members and have some members to thank for keeping me fed and watered on a number of occasions. I do not begrudge your members the opportunity to carry out overseas missions either. I was just using the Mali mission to highlight how we seem intent on solving everybody elses problems without fixing our own. It may be a cost negative mission funded by others and if so fine. Take the homeless issue that’s a problem and another strategy has been announced to solve it this week. Would a portion of what’s spent on overseas aid go a long way to helping solve the issue. I s

You’re a real KeyBoard Warrior aren’t you Jim!?!

You’re absolutely hilarious. Did you ever think of a career in standup?

If you are stopped tell them about the blonds who were stopped by a policeman because they’re break lights were broken…
“Do you realise your brake lights are broken”
“Ah it’s o.k policeman I never use them!”
The reason there were two blonds in the car is because we now live in a politically correct society so one of them was a man and one of them was a woman ………… I can’t because of defamation law tell you which one was driving !

If you’re a responsible motorist who’s fulfilling his obligations to abide by the law, then you should be checking the condition of your vehicle anyway.

Facts have no place here in the land of the permanently outraged.
Away with you.

@ John mcCarthy
Your pay scale you have a link to; please deduct approx 42% from it, that will give you a more realistic take home pay! That’s if you want to show the true facts! Ignorance is bliss!

Tax rates are universal Barry. The pay scales might be inconvieniant to a lot of the statements around here but they are the facts.

Add in the FACT that is gross pay and most of those allowances a rank an file would never see, the boot and uniform allowance Gardai get is now taxed along with a lot of the other allowances, then add in the USC, PAYE, Pension related tax, mortgage, bills, car tax, fuel, insurance,property tax, water charges, medical. What’s left? Not much. Down 20 odd % already sure here take another 10.4%

Tax rates are universal I will give you that but the pension levy isn’t

Yes Jamyee but everbody pays thes things. As for pensions again the below would indicate that it is still a pretty good deal (given the reduction in bond markets the value would have gone up in the meantime). Everyone has the right to fight their case but given the present state of the country and the facts above it would seem that some of the cases around here are not too strong

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-pension-worth-11m-26518918.html

The elephant in the room is not the salary (which despite the protestations is very good by any measure) but the level of debt that individual workers have. It is not the individuals fault as everyone had to buy a home and everyone be they public of private partook to some extent in the hubris of the Celtic Tiger. The only problem is that there cannot be special treatment for any particular section of society. We need to deal with the debt issue together and look for solutions for society at large rather than as different special interest groups shouting we are different. There needs to be a recognition by public sector workers that the pay and benefits I receive are the tax’s and cuts that someone else has to pay and endure. It is a finite pot which has gotten a lot smaller.

John McCarthy
Based on a guard living 40 years ( approx) after retiring except it has been proven that working shift work over a prolonged time cuts years off your life. Sure if I live to be 200 it will be worth over 2 million.

The actuarial value of your pension is based on what it would cost you to purchase and income stream of a given value which would guarantee you an income for the rest of your life of a given amount. But why let the facts get in the way of opinion….

Your allowances are out of date pal and thats a Fact

Not for existing members as far as I am aware.

your facts are wrong any allowance is actually taxed/usc/p levy at 63% all told, plus i think youll find that no one is getting 5000 euro a week for a car, get the boat you clown

Tax’s are universal Colin, and there is only 1 class of citizen despite what some around here think.

Forgive my language Sinead, but that figure is horse shit.

Post the link please.

Well Sinead seen as your an expert on the remuneration of European police forces. If the Gardai are one if the highest paid who are the highest ? And who are the lowest.
Seen as your qualified to tell everybody that the Gardai are one of the highest paid you must know the figures.
That figure is absolute spin and hyperbole. Time you stepped away from the Sunday independent and back to reality.

Ha that’s the biggest lie ever.

Why are your tweets on private setting? Afraid people will rightly judge you by your comments?

Thats the problem with their figures, they are averages from the highly paid officer ranks to the every day guard. If one person earns 200,000 and another earns 40,000, the average earnings are 120,000. Averages are only averages, they are not reflective of the norm.

Obviously foundation level Maths in the Leaving Cert proved a bridge too far for poor Sinead!!

Average the pay of the top ranks, Commissioner €200,000 pa, Chief Super €110,000 pa, Superintendent €90,000 pa against the bottom ranks Sergeant €52,000 and Garda €44,000 and you may well get an average of €56k. However the top ranks work 9-5. They won’t be affected by cuts to allowances. The Guards, Sgts and Inspectors who work these shifts are facing a 10.6% cut. That’s a total paycut of 30%+ in three years. No Garda or Sgt is earning €56,000 basic.

What we earn in Ireland is one thing – it’s our cost base that is the problem – Ireland is ravaged by cartels falsely inflating prices in virtually every sector so your euro buys very little in Ireland. Despite this Governments promises to take on white collar criminality, cartels still operate with impunity. Effective competition law enforcement would lower prices by at least 20% and a lot more in some cases.

Includes the commissioner, deputy commissioners, assistant commissioners, chief s and superintendents and inspectors 100k plus wages. Easy to get an average of 59 k then.

we also have one of the lowest figures for going on the top rates of tax ! ………….. and we also have food being sold at one of the highest costs in Europe ; 18% over the european average !

Gardai checking tv licences …..what planet are you on

Gardai have nothing to do with tv licence

Tv licence was a bad example. And pong the moron take a chill pill chap, people like you annoy me.

Think before you write… Simple

gerard behan …. wins the most red thumbs contest 503 in total plus back to work boys in blue

brendan i can guarantee you its nothing like that. I think my basic is around 43k. Factor in tax, usc, pension levy you could take away half. Additional pay such as unsocial hours is taxed as a second earning and as a result we only see about 40% of it as usc & pension levy apply at this rate. Also these unsocial hours only add up to about 4k per annum before deductions. And before you think its still decent pay you have to remember its hard to repay a 350k mortgage on that pay along with other bills.

Brendan please don’t let me believe that you actually believe Gardai have a voice at the talks. They are in an annexe room to the talks with no negotiating powers at all. If you don’t believe the humble Garda contact AGSI whom you might have more confidence in. Both GRA and AGSI were presented with a list of cuts as well as a wish list in relation to extra Sundays extra hours a cut in keane and rest days. Alternative saving suggestions such as career breaks were welcome but could not count towards the savings Target. At the same time the dept conceded they may not be able to make a pro rata saving from civilians in the dept why was this ? All told it was like being asked to choose the knife to cut oneself or it would be chosen for us. It is very easy for those looking in from the outside to call for Sunday public holiday and night duty allowances to be cut. Most never worked a Sunday or Public Holiday in their lives. When the 9-5 brigade go home Friday and there is an emergency before 9 am Monday they are damn glad to have the frontline workers to answer the call. For this service and missing family time we deserve everything we get, its what we signed up for pay and conditions included. Perhaps the govt think frontline workers are a soft target if so they are wrong. In an earlier post on this article I have outlined savings we as a country could make they might not be politically popular but then again neither might cutting frontline workers

You’re a literary genius Gerard.

Saw your profile background picture and your comment about sexual positions and Cherly Cole, how did you manage to drag your knuckles of the ground to type your above comment?

Shut up with your grateful to have a job sh!te! Grateful to have a job my arse, people spitting on ya, being attacked, verbally abused and all for a pittance pay. Sick of this grateful to have a job bull, the family’s milking it on the social popping out kids like there’s no 2moro with their sky tv’s, iPads, x box’s and holidays should they be grateful NOT to have a job because my family get none of that! I’m not putting everyone on the social welfare in that category or saying that ALL public servants are struggling but seriously not listening to a lazy (unt like him!

if you go through this fools pictures ya can see he has an issue with gardai as he takes a pic of an ex gaurd who made the paper

Ah here people, ye have to take a good read down through Gerard Beehan’s Twitter account to get a real flavour for his immense intelligence!
Highlights so far have to be messaging the model Jordan’s Ex-Boyfriend / Husband telling him to stop living off her celebrity or whatever and telling the actress Tara Reid to ‘suck his c**k’!
Gerard, how have you remained hidden to the world for so long!?!?!?!

@ Gerard (missing link) Behan.

Good man Gerry seize the initiative, don’t wait for others to make a c#*t out of you. Get out there and do it yourself.

She’s hot though…

Richard, is there any member of the human race that you don’t insult?!?!
I could describe your personal skills, but I don’t think TheJournal would allow the comment stand…!

Richard it’s probaly best you don’t comment on a thread about the Guards in view of the fact you admitted to the illegal pollution of your local water course.

Just lookin at what you follow … Who could take you serious.

You are very hot indeed

Be grateful ur on the nat king cole gimp

Yeah the majority in this country always know whats best. Their infinite wisdom gave us Fianna Fail for 15 years and the IMF.

Sinead if I may …… there are those of us who expected our politicians to prevent the I.M.F. from ever coming near the place …terms like “soft landing” …or the bank guarantee was only going to cost the state 4 or 5 billion to re-capitalise the banks! ………… point being if you control the information you control the people …..
Joseph stalin…
………..It is important to have an election……………. “those who cast their vote decide nothing those who count the votes decide everything !”

Control the information? The information is all there, and FF are still the most popular party in the State.

The sad fact is Fianna Fail bought elections with giveaway budgets and parish pump politics. People only cared about their own selfish agenda and have gotten everything they deserve.

Bring on those red thumbs!

Ah yes the famously right wing national union of journalists!

It’s official… He’s a knob

Still a paranoid fool I see Harry!