I will be voting NO.

Well there’s a surprise. (Susie being negative)

David I do not know you and I know you do not know me , but, I am not being negative . I am very POSITIVE that I will not be paying the household charge :)

The Rebel
by:Padraig Pearse

………….And I say to my people’s masters: Beware
Beware of the thing that is coming, beware of the risen people
Who shall take what ye would not give.
Did ye think to conquer the people, or that law is stronger than life,
And than men’s desire to be free?
We will try it out with you ye that have harried and held,
Ye that have bullied and bribed.
Tyrants… hypocrites… liars!

(and David being sarcastic) ;)

Yes, it is no longer a community of equal nation states

Witness the recent EU coups in Italy and Greece, when unelected YES men were installed into government

….as if they are not already installed on the side lines ! The faceless nameless ”advisers” to the government on EU policies ! I will be voting No to Austerity :)

I’ll vote for it, If Enda doesn’t ratify the ESM treaty with all its immunity clause’s etc before then, and organise’s a proper write down for us.

Enda WILL ratify the ESM treaty with its disgraceful blackmail clause in it. Enda will do anything the EU tells him to do, unllike David Cameron, who stands up for his country

The debt will not be written off. Enda does not want DEFAULTER written on his forehead – “every cent we owe will be paid back” he said in the Dail

Yeah, great to hear that Enda, that every cent of Seanie’s gamlbing debts will be paid back. I lost money on the horses last week – is the taxpayer bailing me out?

we have no veto on it

The information I have is we do. On the ESM Treaty which is the one with the blackmail clause. Unless something changed today.

@ Réada, Who do you refer to when you say “we demand Ireland uses its veto”?

me for 1

The Treaty has already been signed and is now being ratified. There is no veto – the time for that is gone. This agreement is different from others in that the Czech Republic and the UK are out.

And even if that clause was removed, I’m certain you’d vote no anyway Réada.

You know me so well Ryan ;)

David. I speak for the sane. These 2 treaties are insane.

So you have finally seen the light….

@ Michael: Sell out our independence “twice”? We’ve been selling out our independence (using your phrase) since 1973. Why? Because it came down to whether Ireland was stronger on its own, in the self sufficient manner that Dev had heaped on the people for almost 50 years with no success, or whether it was stronger in a bloc with other countries. Now we face that choice again.

If you want to vote against the Treaty, I think you should vote against it based on its contents. Your rant on corrupt politicians may all be true – but what will voting no to the Treaty actually do to rid us of corrupt politicians? The answer – absolutely nothing as long as people are willing (as they were in 2007 with Bertie) to turn the other way.

And the second you ever enter government, the only way will be down. I’ll admit FG has some broken promises but SF would have infinitely more. SF lives in a fantasy land of no austerity and pixie dust to solve all of life’s problems.

David that’s ” faith hope and pixie dust !” …. If you don’t have kids that’s lost on you sorry :(

how do you know that david? i am not an sf supporter but even so i dont remeber broken election promises by anyone but ff/fg/lab/the greens and the pds, sf have never broken an election promise in the republic in my experience as they have never been in power here, its like using the argument god must exist because you cant prove he doesnt

@Revolting. SF seem to be two very different parties north & south of the border.
In the south they’re a populist socialist party.
In the north they seem to be turning into an Irish version of the Tories.
http://www.politics.ie/forum/sinn-fein/79556-martin-mcguinness-new-hero-privatisation.html

i think the situation in the north is incomparable, dont get me wrong now, i dont support the sf party but i enjoy Pearce Dohertys speeches, i reckon himself, Shane Ross and Stephen Donnelly should start a new party

The only people coming out against the treaty are left wing parties and socialist independents

When Ganley and Ross advocate a NO vote, watch the polls swing the other way

‘Silly people’ because they don’t share your opinion?

silly people because they will vote to uphold a system that subjugates them

Silly people because they would be voting for economic suicide

Yes, any future government will have a perfect excuse for any curbacks they bring in – the fiscal treaty will completely absolve themselves from the cutbacks

Over the past 15 years, when asked anthing about improper payments, they hid behind the tribunal, now they will cowardly hide behind the fiscal treaty

“Sure, you voted for it, it’s not our fault, we are not bringing in the cutbacks, we are only obeying the law that you have voted for and put into the consittution – it is not us doing it, it is Europe doing it”

Actually, yes it does. It imposes a government debt cap that countries cannot pass (even in boom times) so that this situation cannot happen again. You cannot control housing bubbles on a governmental scale (or potentially at all) so you have to ignore that.

What this treaty does is ensure that if a country starts getting in debt past the agreed debt to GDP ratio set in the treaty that the ECJ can step in and tell the government of that country to get its act together and decrease the debt. If they continue to get in more debt then the other member states can make binding suggestions as to how to correct the problem.

I really don’t see what’s so bad about that? We don’t want this to happen again. As citizens, we should be happy that our government has to be accountable to someone as they’re certainly not accountable to us.

@Oisin
Sinn Fein and ULA know that their promises to cuts taxes and increase spending all depend on massive borrowing foevermore. Borrowing to be paid off by future generations . They don´t want their style to be cramped.

@Oisin: I agree with your sentiments but you even point out yourself that this won’t address the reasons why we’re in this mess.

We had almost zero national debt during the “boom”. The problem was that we:
a) ran a massive structural deficit – using windfall taxes on property to fund day to day spending
b) put in place a crazy government guarantee on the banking system without knowing the facts of the situation

I don’t see how the fiscal compact addresses either of these. Again, some people think it will help us move things along down the road a bit so we get more options in the future. However, we’re already paying 7 billion a year in interest on what we’ve borrowed over the last couple of years. That’s on a tax base of 39bn.

I would vote yes for genuine reform. This is just nonsense to appease German voters by making it look like Merkel is not being a soft touch. Even then most of her own party has been voting against her recently. The Spanish signed up, and effectively tore it up just a week later, the Netherlands is heading for fines under the provisions of the agreement – because they’re making sensible decisions with their own interests at heart.

lol

The EU has caused more harm than good, it is basically german lebensraum, a economic block headed by the fourth reich and to a lesser degree the Cheese eating surrender muppets of the french.

There was several rebellions in this country to oust the foriegn invaders as most of us know and now we have opened the door and let the IMF/EU/ECB control every aspect of our country because a few gambled and the “Elite” idiots at the top saw an opportunity to screw the taxpayer and get bailed out.

Socialism for the RIch and Capitalism for the poor.

A total removal from the EU and setting up economics links with Central/South american countries, China and other markets might do us better, I am no economist but I can see the EU is a total disaster and is destroying Ireland and other countries as it is a total failure.

No way, whoda thunk it.

Future general elections will be a waste of time – no matter what party you vote in, they will be constitutionally obliged to implement this treaty. There will be no escaping the cutbacks

In the 1980’s when Britons complained about Thatchers cutback’s, at least they could vote her out at the next general election. It is called democracy

That will not apply when this treaty is brought in

And who knows corporation tax could be harmonised under this treaty

@patrick you really have no basis for stating that under the proposed treaty. Firstly, the wording of the referendum hadn’t even been published yet and, secondly, even a cursory read of the compact treaty would disprove your point immediately.

It is plainly idiotic to vote either way without reading the referendum first. The media are showing themselves as unprofessional populist windbags by continually talking about a referendum that hasn’t even been published yet.

Nutters on web forums give you a very bad view of humanity. They need to be read with severe caution. Thankfully Ireland is not actually full of morons with Daily Mail style views of the rest of Europe, or people who think there´s magic money trees to pay for the lifestyles to which Irish people have come to demand.

ok oisin
Byeeeee

perhaps oisin, urself and neil
might find very like-minded people
who’ll agree with u wholeheartedly on some FG forum.
Im sure u’d be in fine company.
they still think the eu is a good friend of ours,
along with the ecb and the imf.

i understand tho that u find it mighty frustrating that
plebs like meself were ever allowed to have the vote in the first place.
Maybe u could bring that up as an issue if u join the FG forum?
im sure u’d get lots of support from them,
as they find it very hard to say no to anything,
sure aren’t they The Yes Party,
The Party from Del Monte

@Oisin: I am sorry you are so angry. Try going for a nice walk.

Another lemming falling off the cliff.

Anything that the EU or the Dictatorship put forward is meant to clearly control and screw the ordinary man further.

A referendum for the rich not the poor….

Remember the bullshit of Lisbon, I dont see one job created after the scare mongering about 200k jobs maybe lost since people were blackmailed into voting yes.

So we should sign a FC treaty, get fined for unbalanced budgets while the bigger nations like Germany, France, Spain and Italy get off scot free. Sounds logical!

‘Final solution’…..interesting phrase you use there

@Fiachra: How will this treaty lead to economic stability, or even be a step along the way?

This is magical thinking from the Underpants Gnomes school of economics:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/151040/the-underpants-business

The deficit will have to be 0.5% of GDP and the debt 60% of GDP

We will effectively have to ask Germany and France whenever we want to borrow. how humiliating

Hitler was democratically elected.

Also I am paid to do a job and if I dont perform I get fired, this government clearly has not and should be removed.

As for the opposition there is none SF need to cop on and as for the left they are too fragmented.

A complete new party with balls for the ordinary man is required, not the same old elite morons.

@robbie have a look at the irish democratic party-IDP, set up to try provide a viable alternative to the back slapping con men we have to choose from now, almost halfway to the 300 members required to get state funding as an official party, could be the way forward

they have zero credibility, i have never seen so many election promises broken so completely or so fast, kenny and noonan=pinky and the brain and gilmore = the priest from father ted with the exciting voice but nothing to say

Revolting Peasant never knew about them will have a look now thanks

welcome Robbie, would be interested to know what you think of them

It was a crap deal on the promissory notes.

Our vote doesn’t count anyway. François Hollande will rip up the treaty when he becomes French president.