It is, Sean. It also displays prejudice. Some black people can be racist in their attitude, too. She’s not doing race relations any favours there.

It’s OK, only white people can be racist. When black people say it it’s not racist.
Its like the black police officer’s group in the UK, imagine what would happen if you tried to setup a white group.

Abbott is a shock jock, she makes a very plush living out of being controversial and shouting about Racism. The term “Champagne Socialist” is the only description that should be allowed.

It is such a screwed up country over there, the only politician that could comment on this is an Iraqi born MP.

If a white MP said something similar or even milder then she/he would have to resign immediately and would be a persona non grata for a long time to come. Have no doubt that when she finishes up as an MP, that she’ll be off to Chelsea and the voters of Hackney, living in poverty, whatever colour the are will be told to f off, when they contact her.

White guys have names like Lenny, black guys have names like Carl.

It’s an old French word to describe something that is dark or black in colour. It’s original use towards Negroes was not meant in a disrespectful way. It gathered it’s notoriety over the centuries as a result of that disgraceful slave trade.

Was going to but I thought comment might not be published

I hope Kieran’s comment isn’t deleted. I don’t think he means it in an offensive way. It’s relevant to this thread & it “is” an issue that has to be discussed. It’s also essential for free speech.

That’s right, Meabh. The P.C. brigade were out in force to knock him down. Where are they now re Diane A’s prejudiced remarks ?

Declan, they’re all here condemning her for being a racist. Haven’t you been paying attention?

I am paying attention, Paul. A few names who condemned the Kildare dude haven’t commented – so far. That’s what I meant. We’ll see -

White people don’t really need sticking up for. Take a look at the composition of the Dail, the UK house of parliament, the make up of local councils etc. etc.

I think you’ll find that white people have quite enough people in places of power to look after their interests.

Well said messy

Btw Declan. I’m very surprised and amused by the people here who have changed their definition of racism too. We’re gas alright. That’s for sure.

Like life itself – it is an on-going battle, Réada !! Logging off now ( thank God I hear many say !! ). C ya !!

When have black people ever been in that position? To divide and rule whites? It’s an illogical comparison.

Think you missed my point messy

I’m not quite sure what it is if it’s not a direct role reversal? It’s an apples and oranges comparison. There is no similar statement white people could make.

Its not what the statement refers to, Its who says it and how its said. (according to your *colour)
*If american, I mean color.

Frankly, any group that has found itself in a position of power has generally, through compulsions based on combinations of fear, greed and misplaced altruism, exploited those less powerful around them. As seen in the Mesopotamian, Ottoman, Chinese and Mongol Empires, Meso-American states and pre-colonial African states. Europeans did not invent the concepts of war, empire, pillage and colonialism. But at a certain point in history European technology was comparatively advanced relative to that of others and so the scale of exploitation increased correspondingly.

Sadly, I am forced to conclude that empire is a human problem not a race problem.

True story, solely accusing whites of imperialism is definitely nonsense, other races have committed and will continue to commit atrocities, discriminate and generally be absolutely vile to each other. HOWEVER! That doesn’t defend white Imperial history and currently institutionally racist organisations from criticism any more than it would be a reasonable defence for a rioter from prosecution to say that everyone else was doing it.

Ha ha. Funniest comment today

She is being racist, she should resign.

She suggested that her ethnic community should present a unified front in order to achieve equality in the UK. The FG councillor said he would ignore people of a certain race because he didn’t feel like dealing with them. One is a statement based on racial politics, the other is racist.

True she did suggest a unified front for her ethnic community but against a perceived negative stereotype which she portrayed as being something possessed by only white people, as with FG dude with his use of the words ‘black people’ which he more liekely meant as ‘people who are rude and agressive who happen to be black’, she made the statement a racial one by using the word ‘white people’ when what she most probably meant was ‘people who are in power who happen to be white’. Both cases are similar in that what was probably meant by the people involved was something different to what was actually communicated and understood by their words.

“After a while of this I made a decision that I was not going to take on representations from Africans. I’ve said that I would be very courteous to them and that I would pass on their query to other public representatives who would take their concerns.”

Literally refusing to represent people based on the fact that they’re African. Definitely objectively a racist comment. Saying that white people use a certain tactic and councilling internal solidarity (something which will not affect anyone outside the group negatively). Not really racist. Race based, and regrettable that she didn’t make a clearer statement, but not racist.

I’m not gonna defend any FG representative so you win on that front Messy but you defence of this is statement is hypocritical, the point stands that if a white MP made such a broad and negative derogatory statement against the people of another race( a term I don’t really agree with the use of) It would be cast as racism, so why is it any different here just because she is black? Racism is shown in making broad sweeping negative stereotypes of a group as a whole and inferring the superiority of another race or group. She clearly assigns a negative characteristic to white people as a whole and we the we part of her second sentence then tries to encourage all non-whites to avoid this negative behaviour to assume a higher moral ground.

Looking at her series of tweets, she isn’t making any assumption about black superiority, is she? She simply states that she thinks black people should show a more unified front in the face of what she perceives as divide and rule tactics. She isn’t inciting violent uprisings or anything, simply showing a unified front to work towards achieving the levels of equality that she argues other ethnic minorities have achieved in England. There is no explicit statement of innate superiority or innate inferiority being ascribed to either race in this case. If you assume she is implying all white people in the world use divide and rule tactics then you imply that she is so stupid she thinks every single white person who exists is in a position of power, something of which I genuinely believe she is smart enough to know better.

Funny the Uruguayan didn’t get sacked. He got a club full of support and a showy t-shirt based display of support. Some people just want to bury their heads in the sand over racism by pretending it’s an equal (or even unfairly negatively biased) playing field for white on black racism with issues like this.

so messy..is it your considered opinion that onky white caucasions can be racist? if so you are deluded. i am an admirer of Diane Abbot having followed her career over the years but it has been dogged by controversy of her own making. that comment is racist in tone…im.not suggesting she is racist but she is English and a ploitician of some experience. suarez is a 24 yr old uruguayan who has a defence albeit in some eyes weak of having grown up in a differant culture. he alo is not a racist..accepted by both his accuser (who also accepts staeting the argument and using insulting words….the offence suarez was charged with by fa) and the fa. there is also.NO independant corroboration.of the exchange…Diane Abbots comment was on twitter a public forum….milliband has to take action. racism is NOT only the preserve of the white man and anybody with any exp.outside their comfort zone should know that

The Suarez comparison is a red herring, but you’re the one who invited it. I merely observed that he didn’t get sacked and was shown a hell of a lot of support from his employers and Liverpool fans. To call for Abbott’s firing on the basis of a completely irrelevent case involving a footballer (which didn’t even have the result of him losing his job!) is distracting from the real issue.

I’ve never said white people are the only people who can be racist, that kind of accusation is a straw man that distracts from the heart of the debate. What Abbott tweeted was based on a repeatedly observed practice undertaken by white power elites against black people. Of course other races engage in these practices, and it’s despicable, but to use that as an excuse to censure someone for pointing out an injustice doesn’t ring true to me.

suarez case far from a red herring..it brought out the pc brigade in droves and he HAS been censured publicly by the association governing football. he is also simply an entertainer NOT a legislator which Dianne Abbot is. I can gaurantee you if the roles were reversed ms Abbot would be first out of blocks calling for heads to roll…to carry on in such a loose manner does not befit a front bench spokesperson..simple…whether its racist comments or other illadvised comments

Abbott has been censured. She’s been castigated in the media and her party leader gave her a bollocking on TV! But she didn’t lose her job. Just like Suarez. And she apologised. Suarez never did (well he did, to the fans, for missing games, and to “anyone who might have taken offence”, but not to Evra, even in a backhanded “I didn’t mean to cause you offence” kind of way).

All dogs can interbreed and bleed red blood.

Are you for the Genocide of Collies by interbreeding, or do you prefer the Genocide of Irish Setters?

Any White man who calls himself a “cracker” is nothing but a self-hating white animal, not a White Man.

The word “nigger” is not an old French word, it is lifted directly from the King James Bible, Acts 13 verse 1, where it is spelt “Niger”.
People who don’t believe the Bible have used it disparagingly for centuries. Nothing has changed it seems. However, your point about it not being an insulting term originally is true. Simeon was called Niger by the apostle Paul and seemed to have been highly regarded as a prophet and teacher.

Really ? I read somewhere it was. Well – there y’are !! I stand corrected.

Anyone confused by the whole “why can they call each other n****r?” debate, imagine it like this. If you were to call yourself, or your mates were to call you, a Mick or a Paddy or a Taig, you’d probably be fine with it (making the assumption that you’re a catholic Irishman, apologies if you aren’t). If Peter Robinson came up to you and said the same thing, you most definitely wouldn’t be fine with it.

Technically, it comes from the Latin and you will find derivations of it in all the Romance languages and many languages influenced by Latin (i.e. English). Minor technical point to be sure but just to correct any misunderstanding the sole usage of it stems from that particular translation of the Bible. I’m sure some linguist will be on soon to correct me and point out its Indo-European roots. Point is, its been around for a while. This may be somewhat tangential to the main point under discussion.

Quite frankly, her explanation of “It was taken out of context” does not make sense. A historian who wrote about the era of nineteenth century colonialism should not and would not get away with making sweeping statements about black people. Excuse fail.

There is a country in Western Africa called Republic of Niger .

The country, like neighbouring Nigeria, both are named for the river Niger, the name of which stems from the Latin word for “black”. Check out Roman general from the 100′s AD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pescennius_Niger

Messy you blew your own whole argument outta the water when you compared blacks and whites to apples and oranges..

Emmmmmm…. never called blacks and whites like apples and oranges.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you is probably a better way to lead your life.

As soon as i read Do unto others as…. I knew you’d already lost your argument love. I don’t want to go back down that nasty road

Incorrectly correct?…

It’ll have to do, I was looking forward to a fancy word though .. Cheers

Oxymoron?

You could try “legal” Tom. A lot of incorrect stuff deemed correct by the law…

I don’t think it’s a case of the people that defended the FG mayor are attacking her but more the case that if he was treated in such a way, so should she.

I agree but a few names are familar

Rule has four letters. Conquer has seven. Twitter has a character limit. Can you see why she might have said “rule” instead of “conquer”?

If you read the tweet you would have seen she had plenty of space to use conquer.

The phrase is divide and conquer and not divide and rule. Rule and Conquer are two very different meanings.

Technically Divide and Rule is part of the two part strategy of ancient Rome to first Divide and Conquer, then Divide and Rule. So there you go.

“Divide et Impera” and “Divide et Regnus”.

Someone knows how to use google.

Yup. Maybe you should have learned before you called someone a dumbass for saying “divide and rule”.

Messy you were one of the few commentators that talked sense on this thread. Some of the PC nonsense was bordering on the ridiculous. I enjoyed reading your common sense posts along with a few others. Thanks.

Cheers Réada, glad to hear someone enjoyed what I was saying, didn’t seem like any of the points I was making were very popular judging by the amount of thumbs down I was getting!

I’m with Reada, Messy. The two of you talking sense. The problem we have to resolve is white superiority and privilege, which marginalizes and disempowers people who do not qualify. The term racism confuses people because it implies a false equivalency between those who have privilege and guard it, and those who are shut out of it, that is non existent. If we’re not clear in our minds, then we can easily spout some of the nonsense that can be found above.

That was from the “Darren Scully’s not a racist”, “Immigrants go home” “unmarried mothers dump their buggies at bus stops and get new one at health centre every week”!!! Hilarious!

They were on this thread likes sprinters. They put the loud in LOL. More bashes you got – more you annoyed them. Good work.

Were some genuine anti-racists on here too. But I didn’t see anything negative in the tweet. It can never be one rule for all imo, there are always other factors to be considered. It’s futile to pretend race doesn’t exist and we’re all the same. But if any race owes another a bit of leeway it’s the white race. Anyway I like differences.

I love my new auntie Dote. Just wish we could inject you into poison everywhere!!! Especially the Dáil…

You’re acting like black people are treated equally and have the same power and privileges as white people in the UK. The root of this, the Stephen Lawrence case, pretty much blows that idea out of the water. Yes, “leftism” isn’t colourblind in that it acknowledges the practical reality of race-based inequality and makes some attempts to correct the imbalance.

And how does the left try to correct these imbalances ? By making sweeping racist generalisations about white people ? The tweet is inexcusable to anyone who adopts a post racial view of the world.

The world is patently not post-racial. Adopting that view is akin to trying to solve the current economic crisis by adopting a post-financial view of the world.

So in other words we should continue to dwell on people’s race as a means of stamping out racism ? Seems like a self defeating strategy . Post racialism is not a belief that the world is free of racism, but the belief that people should look beyond someone’s race and treat them like another ordinary member of society, in every aspect of life . Post racialism will then in turn eradicate racism. Cause and effect.

You can believe that people should look beyond someone’s race and treat them like another ordinary member of society, in every aspect of life while acknowledging the empirically observable fact that not everyone shares this view and that a huge number of people are suffering injustices of the kind meted out to the Lawrence family based on their colour. Idealism is fantastic, and it’s what people should strive for, but you need to have a certain dose of unpleasant pragmatism to get there. In this case, it’s admitting that race is used as a basis for denying people rights and liberties and allowing people to comment on this fact. Using post-racial philosophy as a stick to beat someone who’s raised a valid critical point on current race relations seems perverse to me.

Again, the root of this story is the Stephen Lawrence case, a case that took an age to solve because of institutionalised racism. This is what validates to some extent what Abbott said.

No sorry , I refuse to accept there is ANY validity in her tweet. She made a racist generalisation , then blamed the 140 character limit for people taking it out of context , and claimed she was referring to colonial times (while using the present tense and not actually referring to it at all in the body of the tweet).

I fully agree that the verdict in the Stephen Lawrence case was long overdue and the length of time it took for prosecution was a vile miscarriage of justice , but what Diane Abbott said was unacceptable, no matter what the political or social context.

Considering the hostory of race relations between white people and black people and the current charged climate in London, I have to disagree with you. We’re obviously not gonna change each other’s minds here anyway!

To clarify why I mentioned the history of race relations, I did so because for me, the heart of racism is discrimination and oppression. You can’r really discriminate from the bottom up, but you can damn sure discriminate from the top down, and it’s very difficult to argue that white people don’t hold the majority of the aces in the UK right now and haven’t done so for a hell of a long time.

Every point you just made there…white people done that to the rest of the world for 400 years. In fact we done it to the point where the native populations of the America’s that once numbered in the millions, now number in the hundreds of thousands.

If we didnt spend 400 years being racist and believing in our own racial superiority, there wouldn’t be a problem.

If we hadnt spent 400 years making non-White countries into white ruled countries, there wouldnt be a problem.

If we hadnt spent 400 years justifying white children being part of minorities in non-white countries, yet still being part of the ruling elite, there wouldnt be a problem.

If white’s hadnt of spent years justifying the genocide of non-white, there wouldnt be a problem. You’re talking about at LEAST 10 million people in the genocide of blacks in the Belgian congo alone.

If whites hadn’t of spent so much time believing they were racially superior, there wouldn’t be such a movement these days showing other races to be of equal intelligence.

Its called karma.

@Val Kearney

What anti-White venom. You sure do sound like you hate my race. I though you anti-racist types were meant to be tolerant. Sure sounds like anti-racism is a code word for anti-White to me.

Everything you typed is yet another attempt to justify the genocide of White children with events from the past.

However these things don’t happen in a vacuum.

Lets not forget the Zulus in Africa conquered and nearly wiped out the Hottentots.
But nobody says the Africans need to accept and integrate with millions of non-Blacks for this.

The Ottoman empire and Moorish empire stole large parts of Europe and made the Christians slaves.
But nobody says the Muslim countries need to accept and integrate with millions of non-Muslims for this.

People only say this about ALL White countries and ONLY White countries. But then we ALL know that THESE people are anti-White. They support the genocide of White people and at the same time call themselves “anti-racist”.

We ALL know that anti-racist is a codeword for anti-White.

How does acknowledging the facts make it sound like I hate whites? That makes no sense. I’m stating facts, the comment I was replying too stated no facts.

I find it quite hard to believe that I could hate whites when I am white meself. (Actually, I’m ginger, but we’ll leave that argument for another day).

Half the native population of Hottentots was massacred by the Germans in the early 1900s. Another champion move by whites in race relations … Used the captured Hottentots for medical experimentation too.

Only one race people. The human one.

Read your link and I’m a white person who is constantly giving out about “divide and conquer” and “them and us”, and I have to admit I found the comments and racist claims here amusing. Especially those who had obviously changed their definition of racism since the Darren Scully threads. Delighted they’ve changed their mind though. Just gas how that pendulum swings. Ahem!

Given that Abbott’s tweeted just after the sentencing of those scumbags for the murder of Stephen Lawrence I think she should be cut a bit of slack.

I’m sure emotions were running high. Had it been an Irish boy killed just for being Irish and it had taken 18 years for any form of justice I’m sure there’d have been a few dubious tweets would have been tweeted from this island too!

http://33revolutionsperminute.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/racism-vs-racism-why-diane-abbott-was-right/ Read this and sort your heads out.

They make me laugh Messy. Were all out in force saying the Darren Scully wasn’t a racist few weeks ago and same crew here saying this woman is just for stating a few facts.

The Arabs oppressed people, the Turks too. Various African tribes oppressed people.
How can u say white people when there are white people alive like in Ireland and Iceland Luxembourg who never occupied oppressed or owned anywhere. And even still the vast majority of British people today have nothing to do with the counties past. That’s just ridiculous

I never said other groups didn’t oppress other people or that whites are the only ones who are racist. However, in the context of the UK and European history, with whites being the dominant ethnicity politically and economically, they’re the ones who are guilty of some of the largest scale oppression and exploitation of other ethnic groups. Ascribing racial guilt is counter-productive, but it must be noted that the people in positions of power who employ divide and conquer tactics were white. As I already acknowledged, her statement generalises but would still rings true if thought of as white ruling classes, political elites, captains of industry etc.

amazing..mention sectarianism and the red thumbs out in forceful.denial. Good old Ireland!

It may well be prevalent in every society. The point is, she is making a sweeping generalisation about white people and that is racist.

Thats the problem with twitter. 140 characters just ain’t enough sometimes for people to read between the lines.

maybe she should have used some of the characters unused to be a bit clearer? Or a second tweet? Pretty lame excuse!

If a white MP had said black people were lazy. And then said oh I am only taking about the minority lazy black population .Thats still racism. She pulled the race card and got burnt.I am delighted its time now more people o colour were pulled for their racism.Too often racism is portrayed as some sort white disease against ethnic people of colour.

I am sure she will be fine on her nice pension and she’ll probably get invited to speak to Oprah and the Black police club.Black Union of Teachers,Black retired army soliders etc. Seems perfectly ok to create a black club for stuff but can you imagine if there was a White Police Club in London. For White Police officers. The racism is shocking. Oprah I have to say at times I viewed her as a racist. She has her school for black kids in South Africa. She brought 2 token white kids in and they were forced to leave “Controversy over that in S.A a few years back) and then she has her grants for young black men to attend college. You may say whats wrong with that??
If Ellen set up a scholarship that only poor white southerners could apply for there would be outrage.

HUGE DOUBLE STANDARDS out there when it comes to racism and ethnic communities.

wHAT POINT. ??? Most white people I know don’t give a shit about race, but I notice in school and the black students would often pull the race card. They hung very often in their own click . Why???
They called themselves Nigger and seemed to forget they were Irish-Africans ,Not African American and no matter how hard you try your never going to get the ghetto mentality in Kilkenny. They behaved liked they had a chip on their shoulder. There were other students from Papua New Guinea and Poland etc and they mixed in with everyone else fine but yes if I am honest. The black students divided themselves .
Few people in the UK are alive today that were around when colonialism was alive and should they still be blammed for it?? Is it time to move on?

Spot on, Barry.

Bloody sure Heihachi.

Get your point. However, whitey doesn’t owe any apologies to anyone for what happened in the past. During the slave trade to the Americas, black tribes cooperated with whites to ship out what they then considered their enemy. Africans did a lot of damage to fellow Africans throughout history. Something many black people are inclined not to mention. What happened in the past is in the past. Her remarks are in the here & now. I fear she has handed real racist thugs a big stick. Especially to the likes of those who murdered poor Stephen L in England all those years ago & who were only convicted this week.

What happened in the past is still being resolved. Your own reference to the protracted Stephen Lawrence case should be evidence enough of that to you … “Whitey” maintains a position of privilege and certainly owes a more conciliatory attitude to black people in the UK than you’re suggesting.

Speak for yourself, Ireland has no history of colonialism, just a history of peacekeeping and foreign aid.

I respect your points or view & enthusiasm, Messy Angelo. I disagree with.

Ireland isn’t part of the UK, is it? Unless the Queen visiting was some sort of transfer of power that I wasn’t aware of …

Fair enough, Declan, respectful disagreement is all part of healthy debate.

“Respectful” being the word. Sláinte.

Well said Val. I think she was being factual.

Who is ‘we’? I’ve not conquered anywhere. Neither has Ireland, or at least not for over a millennium. So she is exactly wrong, to be fair to her.

No it wouldn’t. Whats your evidence. And it was a Asian/Middle Eastern Tory (Of which there seems to be thousands) who called for her to resign first.

I’d say that’s what she meant too Fitz.