You’re right Connor – and no amount of stating how Greece got into the mess it’s in is going to change that fact.

Fascism seems on the rise and people need to recognise that and it’s source rather than just searching for blame and throwing muck around.

That’s about the size of it. I wonder if the Colonels might reappear again…..

Indeed Too Trueleft. When people are pushed to the limit and you strip them of everything else their identity is all they have to hold onto. That is why it is so important to show solidarity for our fellow Europeans also suffering austerity and why arrogant remarks like Noonan’s feta cheese ones are unhelpful and bloody dangerous.

This type of nationalism is ugly and nasty. There is only one enemy and it’s big money. But while big business dangle the carrot in front of us and some carry on believing the notion that one day they might be rich too humanity will carry on with this crap. Wish to goodness we’d all wake up before it’s too late.

I agree the Germans are playing hard ball and people are hurting, but are you forgetting what got the Greeks where they are? Decades of corruption at every level in society, if political corruption was the norm , tax evasion was the national sport , Their Public were bought off by the corrupt government that allowed them to sector retire at 55 and pay themselves 13 month in the year along with other totally unsustainable crazy stuff. And how was all this done? Well on money borrowed from Germans who have to retire at 67 . What is going on in Greece is a tragedy with real suffering but let’s be balanced in our rhetoric.

Fascists are always the enemy – no matter what else is going on.

Greece isn’t in trouble due to having to refinance their banks and ‘pay off the debts of others’ – they simply have a bonkers economy with rampant corruption, cronyism, wide-spread tax evasion and crazy stuff like hairdressers retiring on a full pension at age 50.

Better than our politicians retiring at 50 with two pensions.

So Donal. It was all those flaming hairdressers’ fault. I hate the way they always cut off more than ya really want too. I knew it had nothing to do with Goldman Sachs. :)

Goldman Sachs did what the Greek government asked them to do – a government voted in by the Greek people.

Very true indeed too trueleft. Will the world ever learn from there mistakes . Those neo tits in Greece play on the fears off the people. Much like our own skinners if I’m honest.

The Greek people recently had an election. The pro-bailout deal parties won.

What also facilitated the rise of fascism was the way the Nazis and the communists undermined democracy and the rule of law by frustrating the legislative process, walking out of parliament and not respecting the laws the democratically elected passed. I think you can view the ULA’s campaign against the household charge through this lens: parliamentarians rejecting that which was passed democratically.

Are you really going to insult peoples intelligence by equating left leaning liberals to far right fascists?

Also, can you give some examples of these communists and nazis disrupting the legislative process which you are comparing to non-payment of the household charge?

Ta

Ignoreland. 52% of households in Ireland have refused to pay the Household Tax. And more than a million households refused to pay it by the deadline of 31st March. The government have no mandate to implement this. That’s real democracy for you. Democracy is not a one day event every 5 years.

I don’t suppose I’ll see you at the Dáil protest re HHC next Wednesday. We’re meeting at the Central Bank Plaza at 5pm and we’ll be heading off to the Dáil after about half hour or so. From one den of iniquity to another… ;)

Too Trueleft – the ULA are not ‘left leaning liberals’ – they are hard-left socialists (according to the many times I have taken the political compass test, I am a ‘left leaning liberal’).

Both them and the Golden Dawn fascists so believe in the justness of their causes that they have no problem with breaking or rejecting the law if it suits.

In doing so they reject the democratic will of the People.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Really Donal? Because all of the polls put approval of the household charge at 20-25%. Disapproval was 75%-80%.

So how is opposing a charge that the vast majority of people oppose “rejecting the democratic will of the people”?

Oh, you mean that fine gael were voted into government so their every action reflects the ‘democratic will of the people’?

Wrong. 65% of people who voted in the last election gave their preference to a non fine gael candidate i.e. for every voter who voted fine gael number 1 in the last election, there are two who did not.

Anything else??

Yeah – have a read of our Constitution.

It doesn’t mention opinion polls.

Are you suggesting that it’s ok to reject the Dail?

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/html%20files/Constitution%20of%20Ireland%20(Eng)Nov2004.htm

I don’t wish to step on toes here, but we don’t live in a democracy, we live in a representative democracy.

Oh, I have read our constitution Donal. And I do not accept that a party that lies its way into power, u-turns on its promises and election manifesto, who only 1 in 3 people voted for in the first place, represents the will of the people by forcing a tax on us that 75%-80% of people oppose.

Will of the troika? Yes

Will of the people? No

It was the democratic will of the people that fine gael would not pay another cent to banks, yet here we are billions of euro later, and you have the neck to claim fine gael is acting under the democratic will of the people?

Beyond contemptible, lust like fine geal/labour

Perhaps you should read the Constitution again TTL because it doesn’t mention any of the thing you talk about.

Among other things, it says the Dail and the Executive are elected to make decisions on behalf of the people. Which is what they are doing – that often involves unpopular decisions. If populism is what you want, turn back the clock and vote FF.

The Government were elected on the basis of implementing the MOU. You are entitled to be against that but that doesn’t change what happened in the election. Your view lost. If there was an election in the morning, do you think the ULA would win?

Fine gael was elected on an understanding of burning bondholders and not another cent to the banks. They cannot do a u-turn on that and then hide behind the constitution the same way your dear leader hides behind the specter of suicide rather than have to answer questions. Its no better than a man who murdered his parents begging for clemency because he’s an orphan. It’s lowlife cretinous cutehoorism, or as we say as gaelge, Fine Gael.

If you can point out where in the FG (or Labour) election manifesto the unilateral burning of bondholders is promised, I would appreciate it.

Please don’t tell me you are prepared to chuck our Constitution out the window on the basis of something Leo said many months before the actual election (that was also later qualified as to be not unilateral).

Too True Left, you’re very good at setting up the straw-man argument. Firstly I did not only compare the ULA to the Nazis but also to communists to which they are much closer aligned to ideologically. However that’s beside the issue as I was highlighting the anti-democratic nature of both of these diametrically opposed political parties and relatedly the actions of the ULA in undermining the legislative will of the Oireachtas.
Secondly, if you’re looking for examples of what I’ve just said, just look at the frequent use of emergency powers in the latter years of Weimar Germany. This was argued as being necessary due to the legislative deadlock in the German Parliament and the tactics used by the Nazis and communists were the main cause of this.

The LAST thing anybody needs is a big society project. That’s just an excuse to turn a temporary economically-driven curtailing of government projects into a long term philosophy of telling the proles to f**k off if they want their government to actually do its job.

No,but it may be the end of the beginning.

What’s the Greek for fourth reich?

“Angela Merkelopolous”

What has Merkel got to do with the Neo-Nazis in Greece? Please tell me you are not that ignorant that you would mistake germans for nazis.

Does the word “reich” not mean “empire” any more angie?

@angie; get a grip it’s just a funny name combo, Angela Merkolopolous, GENIUS, how could u not laugh at that

I’m sure he’s not that ignorant but are you so foolish and trying hard to be über PC that you can’t see the pun, clearly the the Germans are synonymous with nazis coz they didnt start in the arctic, his comment was an apt pun and a clever one.

@JMc Angie , is right to take exception , it’s you who are showing your ignorance :Jonno asked “What’s the Greek for fourth Reich” True Left , Hilariously (not) :-( responded “Angela Merkelopolous” thus associating the two ,which implies that Merkel could be considered an Nazi . True left attempted to deflect by telling us the literal definition of “empire”, now we all know or should know that in reality the term is associated with the worst regime in history. Now assuming Angie is German (guessing by second name) is it not reasonable that she find offensive???? After all isn’t most racism past off in joke. And beside do you really find mashing two word together funny. BTW I know that this was all just supposed to be funny , but Angie has the right to not see it like that without being castigated from what I see is an “ignortive”, see what I did there , I joined ignorant and perspective , funny huh?

@Tensing, what exactly are u tensing cos it looks like ur letting loose yr sphincter muscle.. overinflation at its best..
There are times when all else can be put aside to enjoy the humour of a comment, simple.. And if Angie has the right to be offended surely I have the right to be not so offended, also ur word mash doesn’t work as well, hit up trueleft for some lessons..

@Tensing, what exactly are u tensing.. overinflation at its best..
There are times when all else can be put aside to enjoy the humour of a comment, simple.. And if Angie has the right to be offended surely I have the right to be not so offended, also ur word mash doesn’t work as well, hit up trueleft for some lessons..

well Tensig I apologize.You are oh so clever and astute. Maybe Too Trueleft and myself should not be allowed to post here as we clearly don’t take life seriously enough for you and angie. I am surprised that you jumped to a conclusion as to her heritage just based on her name though.Shocking really. How presumptuous of you, like me and finding the beginnings of Golden Dawn akin to the beginning of the Nazi party and associating the nazis with the Germans. I gave you a green thumb though and await your reply, I bet it’ll be stinging clever and to the point :)

Tensing, nice of you to tell everybody what I meant.

You’re wrong by the way.

hah , Jonno see who the sensitive Susie is now ?? it funny you don’t see the irony in saying im trying to be clever when your statement whilst ignorant tried to do exactly that “ what is the Greek for …….. gas man you are . Believe me no PC warrior and I think I explained your pun pretty well to you , sorry I didn’t piss myself at the word mash Now . J Mc you are a true simpleton, let’s have laugh on a story about the rise of the far right in a country undergoing massive turmoil , you troglodyte. Now go back to the couch Jeremy Kyle should be starting soon

Haha u sound like a little rat cornered in a room spitting vitriol at everyone hahah lovely to see u with ur tail between ur legs u over presumptuous git..

Go you you keyboard warrior I’ll wait with baited breath for your reply it will be earth shattering and undoubtedly shift my world view for a 3rd time, ur that influential, a beacon of light has shone on me praise you praise you, muppet

Sorry tensig dont mean to be gettin personal, by reading you other comments it would seem you are taking these comments as a slight on germany which its not, ther nazis rose under the similar conditions that the greeks are under at the moment and by god its obvious that golden dawn are heading the same direction.

@ Jonno , fair enough , apologies , i was making a point but was too personal also

Tensing I think you need to double up on ur tampons, sounds like a seriously heavy flow this month

Here’s the deal…Who Gives A Fcuk…not even a news story Donks!

Nice to see intolerance and belittle meant is flourishing in our open-minded left-wing supporters. I wouldn’t be so smug about another country’s racist extremism, we’re over two thirds of the way there ourselves. TTL – you are so fond of saying we should follow Greece’s example, good to see you’re consistent in this case also.

Oh, let me guess, I’m one of those left wing socialist right wing nazi commie fascist latte-drinking liberals that we’ve all read about in the indo, am I karswell??

No let me guess…you are all a crowd of dole heads with fcuk all else to do. I’m sorry I commented at all on this non-news story.

@ TTL – I wouldn’t know, I don’t read the Independent. You seem to have offered that definition of yourself, not I. I would have said it far more simply; you’re a hypocrite. You claim to ascribe to holier-than-thou values, but you’re just as elitist and bigoted as the Greek far right, in that you see no problem in using insults, ridicule and petty bigotry to demean other nationalities.

@ angie..its not that all germans are nazis its that all nazis were german…lest we forget..

@ Paul : Not fully true. Hitler was Austrian. Many fervent Nazis were Scandinavian, not just German. Many of the Jewish people and homosexuals killed in the death camps were German and, before the rise of the Nazis, proud to be German. Are all IRA supporters Irish? Are all Irish people IRA supporters?

That is no excuse , All the other EU members with med coast have the same problem. These guys are supporting Nazism. Just shows what kind of idiots they are . Forgetting what happened during world war II. on a separate topic Greece has no future with their current mix of their economy and demographics without the help of outside investors and immigrants . I wonder who would like to invest in this muppet country .

Lest we forget

Politics of fear like when your own party, fianna fail, pushed through crippling budgets under threat of the IMF coming in and being even harsher?

Politics of fear like when your own party, fianna fail, claimed that we’d lose thousands of jobs and the FDI would pull out if we didn’t vote ‘yes’ for lisbon?

Politics of fear like when your own party, fianna fail, threatand us that there would be no money from the ATMs if we didn’t blanket guarantee europen bankers gambling debts?

Glass houses paul.

Extremists? You must be joking. What’s extreme is what your gang of crooks did to this country, not the sensible pro-people proposals being put forth by those with actual solutions to the crisis of capitalism.

What’s this?
“Two” people who don’t believe their own stuff so much that they won’t even embarrass themselves by signing their own names to it.
Buzz off…!

So lets get this straight. A guy who posts using his real name to spin every political story in order to promote fianna fail in a positive light is calling out somebody using an alias claiming they do so because they “don’t believe their own stuff”?

And tell me Paul, does using your real name make it easier to “believe your own stuff” when that stuff is talking up the shower that have destroyed our country??

I’ll sign my name to it Paul. You are a member of FF and your party are disgusting parasites. The part you ignore about the left is their other slogans, “Equality” “Solidarity” “No Pasaran”. We fight fascists, you allow them to exist. Trying to link the left with these people is just low. Your party once claimed to be left-wing, you make me sick.

@Martin the last time i checked all of those are gone….