if only

Money, I’m afraid to say, is the reason we can’t remove religion from schools….

When the free state was founded, the church took control of most schools and in return they provided the land, the buildings and the staff… And right now we can’t afford to buy out the church and we still need their property so we’re stuck really.

It sucks, I know, but it’s the situation we’re in.

In fairness there should be some kind of education at home, my mum thought me, I am in the process of teaching my kids, schools have a very outdated view of sex ed so it’s really up to parents to steer their kids in the right direction

“Schools have a very outdated view of sex ed” what makes you say that!??

@ Roy: because it’s true. Teenage pregnancy is at an all time high

@ the one: teenage girls should be given contraception by their parents and taught well in the subject because they will be lumbered with the responsibility once the idiot teenage boy eventually f**ks off

Yup, this is part of a cynical campaign of suggestions and policies that FF wouldn’t touch with a barge pole while in office. Judge FF on their record, not their rhetoric.

It’s never too late to make the right decision

Exactly :)

Out of interest Cyril, did you mention your thoughts at the time?

No hospital or school should have any ethos!! im sick of this monopoly the catholic church has on everything! if the catholic church wants their own schools let them pay for them. no state school should be under control of any religion as well as the hospitals!!

Oh no Sheila. I blame the govt more than the nun involved. She had obviously been doing it for years. Complaining there wasn’t going to achieve anything only make myself look rash. The law is on the side of the religious institutions. Change has to happen by the people demanding their leaders to bring it about.

Yes, please!

A noisy atheist is as bad as a noisy Christian. There should be no religious ruling at any level

Not so easily done. The Church and religious orders built 90% of the schools in Ireland as the State abdicated its responsibility to educate its children. The Church and religious orders own these schools and the lands attached to them so the State needs sone serious money to get these schools handed over. The State has no money so it can’t do it.

Would you rather that they just sat quietly and did nothing, wasting all our money for five years? They got enough votes to oppose the government, and that’s what they’re doing.

They’re trying to delude the electorate into thinking that theyve stopped being a corrupt bunch of gombeens by stealing Labour’s progressive colours. You seem like a nice lad Fiachra, and I believe that you probably mean well, but how can you support these people?! You’ll have to pay high university fees, spend years on the dole, and much more because of them. Are you suffering from stockholm syndrome or something?

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe you’re cynical, and are hoping to get a nice cushy job through FF connections. But thank God the electorate are smart now, and can see FF from what they are now.

FF will start its “reopen the Vatican embassy” petition with Dev jnr. at the helm round about Easter and use this piece of legislation to show how “progressive” they are.

They were in bed with labour at the time they decriminalised homosexuality and we all know what Dermot Aherne said about it

What did he say?

Fianna fail should vanish off the face of the earth.

decriminalise homosexuality about 3 decades after everyone else it should be noted

During the debate on decriminalisation of Homosexuality in the Dáil in 1993, he agreed with a statement by Fine Gael TD, Brendan McGahon which reads: “Homosexuality is a departure from normality and while homosexuals deserve our compassion they do not deserve our tolerance” and who described homosexuals as being “like lefthand drivers driving on the right-hand side of the road.”

Ahern himself added: “Will we eventually see the day in this country when, as has happened in the USA, homosexuals will seek the right to adopt children? We should think seriously about this possibility”. Following his appointment as Minister responsible for equality, Ahern has refused to be drawn on this matter and has not given an answer as to whether he still holds those opinions.

The greens forced them on the civil partnership. which in itself is a sham. at least in UK their civil partnership is equal enough to marriage rights in all but name

FF had a commitment to civil partnerships in their 2007 Manifesto; before th deal was done with the greens.

They were also the party who put in the religious exemption for schools and hospitals into the Employment Equality and Equal Status Acts.

This PMB doesn’t go far enough. If Power was serious she would remove the clause exempting schools from discriminating on religious grounds completely. Schools can refuse to employ a single mother, divorcee, person ‘living in sin’, etc on religious grounds as well – why only remove the exemption for gay people?

Can I suggest a good spellchecker?

Catholic church still had its grip on the country it was only in the early 90′s where the can of worms started to open that the church lost its grip

It appears the post I was replying to by Alzee has been removed..

Ditto

Hey my comment was in reply to the bigot aizee or what ever the persons name was!!! As a stand alone comment it looks like I disagree with the article (which I don’t). What’s up with that?! Was their comment removed or something?

That’s happening to me too.. It’s rather confusing.. I seem to be getting a lot of errors on this page, but I can appreciate why these vile comments may have been removed.

this stuff instead? so if it doesnt concern you personally its not worth a look in? you should be working for FF yourself.

Most of those Irish fathers have spent time in jail rather than pay court ordered maintenance for their own children. Why should they be given anything?

It seems some people here need to check out http://www.fathers.ie/

The rights of fathers has LONG been called for updating.
It has got nothing to do about money for most fathers – its about access and the plain right to see their child!
…But the educated and informed would know that!

For example, as the current laws stand:

In 1966, the Supreme Court clarified the following aspects of the Irish Constitution:

(i) a natural or biological father is not a member of a family within Article 41;
(ii) a natural or biological father is not a parent within Article 42; and
(iii) a natural or biological father has no personal right in relation to his child which the State is bound to protect under Article 40.3 (The State (Nicolaou) v an Bord Uchtála).

In 1996, the Constitution Review Group acknowledged that “there has been much criticism of the continued constitutional ostracism of natural fathers”

…And that was 1996 for crying out loud – what did FF do in ALL those years? NOTHING! Absolutely bloody nothing!

I’m all for gay rights and they also being updated (My bestman (and best friend) at my wedding to my female wife, was gay) but for Fianna Fail to start crying about how laws should be updated, is a sick joke.

They didn’t bother their bloody arse when they had the chance for over 26+ years!

They are a disgrace and continue to be so!

You’re not wrong. A friend of mine went through a seperation and then divorce, I couldn’t believe how his wife could just repeatedly ignore various judges rulings, but she did. Many years later his kids now think he deserted them. I can honestly say this man was the best father I have ever met, I can only hope some day they realise that.

There are always more important issues depending on your viewpoint and how the issues affect your life. Does that mean we should never legislate for those issues that are less important?

Grass roots Fianna Failer indeed.

@Cyril….I’ve never ever been a member or activist or supporter of Fianna Fáil….ever!

Roy that was directed at Alzee with the FF emblem not you. Don’t worry I would never accuse a progressive view point as being a FF supporter. At least he was wise enough not to show his name.

Better check that avatar again Cyril ;)

Severe bigoted generalisation.

Right… I’m sure that gay teachers would be pursuing their gay agenda with their gay maths, their gay geography, their gay chemistry and so-on! Oh and no doubt this horde of gay educators and parents will be turning paisti na hEireann queer because that’s how it works!

I must tell all the gay people I know in long-term committed relationships that they’re not really gay at all because if they were they would just be going around shagging the next person in sight.

Oh rathminer, I’d be in stitches if I didn’t know you weren’t joking!

Rathminer. What “homosexual personalities” are you referring to? P.S. you have not made any arguments

Many will have seen that I made some amazing arguments. They’ve been removed, however. Too many red thumbs from the gays.

Your arguments are far from valid and you are simply rehashing offensive and utterly discredited stereotypes to justify your own homophobic bigotry. And it’s a good thing that your ignorant views are not typical of ‘heterosexual pesonalities’, the vast majority of whom support full equality for LGBT people. So by all means continue littering online forums with your meaningless drivel, behind an annoymous twitter account with a grand total of 6 tweets, and we in the gay community will continue openly and confidently fighting for full equality along with our many straight friends and allies.

Rathminer, if these utterances are anything to go by I can see that they are completely invalid as they are based upon fallacy. A fallacy is an error of reasoning, that only make sense to an illogical mind.

Study logic, and I am sure you will see just how off the wall you sound.

Apparently your views are not controversial, just bigoted and therefore deservedly unpopular.

You do realise how utterly stupid you sound it’s not 1980’s any more it’s 2012 :)

It isnt just my opinion.90% of the cultures/religion(Catholic,Protestant,Hindu,Muslim,Buddhist ) consider homosexuality to be a bad thing or not something to be promoted.Its a deep evolutionary instinct probably predicated on the fact that societies or human groups which promote homosexuality,probably have an evolutionary disadvantage due to large numbers of genes being taken out of the communal pool by homosexual behaviors.

So the other 70% are straight offenders

I’m so shocked by your comments that I actually think you are just taking the piss…nobody could be that small minded!

they are the facts you might not lke them but they are the facts.

Rathminer and Alzee get a room will ya :) then stench of repressed sexuality off the 2 of you’s is unreal

Rat-minor’s statistics are total bullshit. Who’s keeping track of the actual sexual orientation of criminals?

Alzee, I have to laugh. I’ve never seen anyone post an argument before that combined Evolution and the superstitious beliefs of the religious. (The current Pope said he doubts Evolution as do the Muslims.) Your comments also indicate that you haven’t a clue about Evolution. While a homosexual may be at a disadvantage in reproducing all his or her genes, the individual genes that make someone a homosexual must confer an advantage or they would have disappeared. Evolution acts on the individual genes.

I’m loathe to reply to this annoymous bigot but just to make clear on this forum – every credible organisation working in this area has stated there is no connection between homosexuality and paedophilia. Abusers target both male and female children – this kind of sickening abuse does not distinguish between gay and straight. You know the bigots are getting desperate when they roll out this canard.

Albee you are severely misinformed.
Homosexuality cannot be “cured” as it is not a disease, it’s a sexual preference!!

@ Alzee – since when do Buddhists have a problem with homosexuality? As someone who has many Buddhist friends (and who has practised Buddhism in the past) I can safely say, without a shadow of a doubt, that homosexuality is not frowned upon in Buddhism. It may be frowned upon by some states purporting to be Buddhist, such as Thailand, Bhutan, etc., but there is nothing in Buddhism which considers homosexuality a bad thing. Perhaps you should read up a little on the topic before highlighting your own idiocy. Regarding the “curing” of homosexuality – good luck with that one, as homosexuality is not a disease. There is no cure, and there will never be a cure, short of torture.

It’s not considered wrong in most pagan Spiritual practices either.. And then there’s all those who do not identify with a religion..
Come to think of it, I have Christian friends and know some Muslims who have the good sense to realise its just bigotry too..

I read this comment and thought wow could this person be any more inappropriate , small minded and bigoted ? .. And then I read your subsequent comments and the mist cleared… You can !

What are you on about??

As a FF supporter I disagree completely. In the constitution of 37 set out by de Valera the state guarantees civil liberty to all citizens of Ireland. I as a FF member uphold the Bunreacht.

Troll alert.

Lol lifestyle, as someone who spent most of her life in a closet because of people like you with your homophobic comments I sincerely hope the new generation of kids embrace their gay side and be proud of who they are :)

Your bigotry is beneath contempt and thankfully represents a small and shrinking ‘viewpoint’ in this country.

Is it against nature? Homosexuality has been witnessed in the natural world outside of normal displays of dominance.

Is it wrong? Hmmm.. Is love wrong?

The only bad example anyone is setting is homophobes like yourself, preaching that difference is wrong and enforcing bigotry.

oh dear oh dear oh dear..

Dan do you know of any schools with a gay ethos?

This is funny.. Do you see ANYONE being discriminated against in the school teacher setting for being “straight”? I honestly would like to know how heterosexual teachers’ rights’ are being ignored (in the specific area of sexual preference).

Strangely enough, they’re the same rights.

I do share some people’s views that are if someone is overtly homophobic it means they are some how unease with their own sexuality, I have plenty of straight friends who support the LGBT cause and have no problem going to Panti bar or the George fir fundraisers or even supporting Marriage Equality on civil marriage cause ;) there’s nothing like a homophobe who can’t even get to grips with their own sexuality

care to share your evidence?

And you’ve never seen a 30 yr old guy dating a 16 year old then no?
But I guess that’s ok, because you approve of heterosexuality..

I don’t approve of adults dating kids, but it happens every day.. It’s only considered a problem when it’s homosexuals because of the implied wrongness of their sexual preference. Which comes back to homophobia – an irrational, illogical prejudice.