its really not that bold. equality is not bold. is just bloody equality. stop thinking its bold people!

Unfortunately it is.

This is obviously a step in the right direction , but one just has to wonder why they are now so in favor of gay marriage now and not 12 months ago say ? Is there some one else in government who has yet to come ”out”, and they may be smoothing the way !!! . My policy is live and let live,but really this government do not do or say anything, that is not first choreographed ….

A constitutional review should begin by removing the special role of the catholic religion and it’s ethos. No mention should be made of any religion in our constitution. Once that is gone , only then can we really discuss same sex marriage , abortion etc in that context.

The special position of the Catholic Church in the Constitution was removed by referendum in 1972. The Catholic Church did not object to its removal.

The “special (role) position” of the Catholic Church was removed from the Constitution by the Fifth Amendment passed by referendum in 1973.

SNAP!

Les or whatever your name is…don’t you understand that talking or debating is a fundamental part of any democracy. Would you prefer actions that have not been properly thought out first like…

How could you not understand that my name is Les? Yes, of course proper parlimentary procedure is needed. Proper democratic debate required. But, you see, he has said it and as minister of justice minister & law reform, therefore if he supports it, then let him be the one who brings it in front of the house for debate and proper democratic procedure . Don’t just talk about it and use it as a popularity tool.

Les there is very little he can do, it’s a constitutional issue, so it will be decided democratically by the people in a referendum. The best he can do is refer it to the constitutional commission. Let’s hope that happens soon.

Dont disagree with Les, he will want to revoke your freedom of speech.

Fully understand that Pierce. Well in fairness why would he come out with the statement then. To me it smacks of a popularity contest.

Hi Les, yes it does look like a bit of a bandwagon jumping doesn’t it. I really hope that this happens and we can have a proper discussion about it. Do you know the story of the French radical who is looking out his window and sees a group of people marching. He says I must find out where they are going so I can lead them.

@ Pierce2020 – “The best he can do is refer it to the constitutional commission”

Nonsense. There’s no requirement to bring anything to the Convention. The abolition of the Seanad isn’t going to be referred. Nor is the Children’s referendum. The issues of Oireachtas Inquiries and Judges pay weren’t delayed for referral to the Convention. Shatter could easily seek Government approval to hold a referendum immediately, if he wanted to.

Yellow, “The best he can do is refer it to the constitutional commission”, is a political point not a legal one. It seems that the government want to bring this to the commission. If he was to call for a referendum on this it would go against his government plans. So you might think it’s nonsense but sometimes nonsense is reality.

Those closest to the alter are often the furthest form God:-) Perhaps she has something to hide and thats why she is so full of hate towards gays and lesbians!

@Patrick, I think it’s important to draw the distinction between the legal union of marriage in the eyes of the state, and the religious ceremony of marriage. Any constitutional change would be to allow for civil marriage, ceremonies officiated by a state official and conducted in registry offices or other non-religious locations. It’s highly unlikely you’d be seeing same sex couples getting married in churches by a priest, I’m not sure how much interest there would be among same sex couple for a church wedding anyway.

The civil partner bill applies to heterosexual partners to recognised in the eyes of the state too.

@Begrudgy: it wouldn’t be forced on anyone. All it would mean is that same-sex couples would finally have the right to choose whether or not to marry. At present, they are denied that basic choice. As for single fathers, a huge amount of work is urgently needed. It’s a separate but equally important issue and I hope they get to grips with it as a matter of urgency.

@Patrick, I think we’re both in agreement about the basis from which the majority of objections stem from, and we’re both in agreement that said objections are practically irrelevant as any constitutional and legislative change (I think it’s safe to assume) would not have any bearing on Catholic or other religious organisations policies.
Of course opponents will say there are other issues, like the definition of the family, adoption rights etc etc. But obviously the ballot paper just says ‘Yes?’ or ‘No?’, not ‘Yes and why?’ or ‘No and why?’

Sorry. Debate the why.

Almost all? My hunch is that if they feel the public mood is heading in the direction of change, they’ll probably be a little more “considered” in their public utterances. Apart from Lucinda Creighton, I can’t really remember anyone being boldly against same-sex marriage. Anyway, isn’t it in the Programme for Government? It’s not like Ministers from both coalition parties would be speaking “as one” on such a big issue if they didn’t feel they had official backing.

chris the fornication woman too probably ;p

Oh yeah – forgot about her. I suppose there are *some* who take her seriously.

The actuality is that most parties are openly in favour of same-sex marriage. In fact FF are even gone as far as voting in a policy calling for same-sex adoption rights. The majority of TDs are in favour of this measure with only a hand full from a number of parties against.

You’re wrong, Mrs Cat. The opposite is the case – opinion polls show public support is greater than 70% so if anything, TDs supportive of marriage equality would attract more votes, not fewer. http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-shows-strong-support-for-same-sex-marriage-363584-Feb2012/

For the record, Michell Mulherin (of ‘fornication’ fame) is in favour of equal marriage. Only a small number of TDs are properly opposed to allowing gay couples to marry.

@Mark Downes-Don’t let the polls fool you. The polls on journal also showed that the country would vote No in the last referendum, nobody would pay the household charge and that David Norris would be President. The real world exists in a place outside of journal.ie.

Cat I don’t think you understand that there are polls conducted by other organisations than the journal.ie, so maybe you should connect with the real world and listen to Mark. As for most of your comments recently, try to think before you type :-)

She’s right about the polls unfortunately. We’ll just have to see how this one plays out.

@ Eoin, perhaps you should read the above comments before you post. Mark specifically attached a journal poll in his post. This is what I was responding to. If you have other polls then post them or else refrain from posting at all.

It was a Red C poll that the Journal reported on.

Oh yeah because Shatter and Gilmore are gay for each other, because them being gay would be funny. Haahaa. Bloody brilliant. You are too funny, you know that. Really that is really really funny. You should do standup.