Lets be honest Keith, not everybody who voted yes did so out of fear, but its fair to say that a large proportion of people who voted yes did so with regards to the blackmail clause.

I lot of people voted yes out of fear but many others did it out of greed

No True left, it is largely because the No side offered a very vague solution to not voting yes. Give up up on the blackmail clause

Dave the yes side had very poor ideas on why it was in out best interest to vote yes… All they kept regurgitating was something about not being able to get access ro cheap ESM funds…. And this is the clause that they allowed to be inserted into the treaty at the 11th hour to ensure they got the yes vote they do badly wanted…

It’s not because the no side had “vague solutions” as you put it, the solution was default, leave the Euro and start again, but nobody has the balls for that so they’d rather cling on to a weak treaty that doesn’t even begin to address the problems. The fiscal compact doesn’t do ANYTHING to address the current problems. There is no quick fix, and I think the Irish public have now agreed to a prolonged, slow downward spiral. I really hope I’m wrong, but I haven’t seen one iota of evidence to suggest I am. Sometimes you just need to take the pain, in which case everyone would be better off getting it over with FAST. The Irish government aren’t there to lead, to represent the people – they’re there to maintain the status quo and get their pay cheques. They’re a disgrace.

I would LOVE nothing more than to be wrong, I’m waiting on the proof – might see something in 50 or so years.

Mojo the reason the yes side banged on about the ESM and access to it is because the treaty had to be ratified for access to it. You don’t have to like it, but it’s there in black and white.

As for leaving the euro and starting again – you call that a solution? That is just unworkable and is not a solution at all. You think it’s bad now?

Tell you what dave, you keep explaining to us all why the yes side banged on about the gun to our heads, and I’ll keep reminding us all that they didn’t speak up when the decision was made to point the gun to our head in the first place, then spent the next couple of months proclaiming ‘oh noes, theres a gun pointing at your heads’.

Everything’s scary these days. We have to talk about this maturely and not fall into the trap of calling either side a scaremonger. Both sides outlined what they believed were the downsides of the opposite side. That’s called a prediction, not scaremongering.

Oh really david? Michael Noonan stated that a no vote would necessitate a harsher budget in december. The targets for december budget were already set at the start of the current program by FF and the troika.

So, was that not scaremongering?

@Dave the black mail clause was inserted without objection by our representatives…

@David your fg party got what they wanted but your party will suffer badly and won’t last a full term in office…. The tilting point is fast approaching… Hogans back on tv…. For the Past 6 weeks we had a break on the new charges / taxes…. From next Tuesday it’s back to the water charges, HHC, rates Etc etc…

@David
Do you not think it would have been more helpful if ya’s told us all the positives of both choices, all the parties told us BS. What are the positives of voting yes????

0-1 Giants Stadium June 1994. What else could we ever want ;-)

The Aqueduct! and the Roads! Although the roads go without saying,,,

And what have the Romans ever given us in return?! The aquaduct? what? The aquaduct. Oh yeah, yeah, they did give us that, that’s true. And sanitation. Yes, the sanitation, remember what the city used to be like, Reg. Yes OK, I’ll grant you, the aquaduct and sanitation are two things the Romans HAVE done.And the roads! Well yes obviously the roads, I mean the roads go without saying, don’t they! But apart from the sanitation, the aquaduct and the roads… Irrigation! Medicine!Education! Yeah, all right, fair enough. And the wine… Yes, that’s something we’d really miss if the Romans left. Public baths! And it’s safe to walk the streets at night now Reg. Yes, they certainly know how to keep order. Only ones who could in a place like this! All right. But APART from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?! Brought peace! SHADUP!

I know a few people who voted yes just because it’s the opposite of what Sinn Fein advocated, so you are correct. I personally don’t think it’s a valid reason to vote yes, but it’s their democratic choice.

hmm,agree. Think they’re still struggling to come to terms with democracy.

You are spot on… Many of the better off people in this country voted yes purely because of there own selfish indulgence of greed…. This treaty was not in any way good got this country in any way shape or form…. We will all suffer now… Watch wait and see…. Silly fools….

Don’t let the door hit you on the arse on your way out.

Joe you think it’s funny, I’m broke my family is broke, I have cousins, brothers, sisters that are leaving or already gone. My da has been travelling back and forth from the uk every week working and supporting the family. You need a reality check bud and see what is going in around you

Joe that fair bad thing to say, Imagine if you were faced wit immigration. You know what they say what goes around comes around

Despicable comment Joe. Have you any clue what sort of anguish people who have no choice but to emigrate go through. Wake up and look around you.

Joe you’re an ignorant fool! Probably with no money worries, i hope you lose yer job and experience poverty… Oh and mind the door of the welfare office doesn’t clip you on the arse on yer way!!!!!!!

right on simon heres wishing for someones demise

@ Dermot… Yes I’d like to see the demise of a person who likes to see the demise of others!…. He even goes as far as not only not having any respect, compassion, sympathy but also marking smart, insulting remarks too..
I’m not a bad person but I live by the saying ‘treat people as they treat you and others’

And 90 years later Sinn Fein have as much respect for a democratic vote that they’re not favourable to as Mellows did.

“Democratic vote”? – More like gunboat diplomacy.

People voted yes, end of story

No, they don’t make any sense!

Neither do you Dave.

Wheres your proof of that slander you. And if your Gagsy 99 Who are the other 98.

Slander? Wasn’t he a driving force in the peace process and specifically credited with persuading the IRA to stop the aul murdering?
Are you suggesting he didn’t know any of them lads?

Were there 89 Joes before Joe 90.
Were there IX Malcoms before Malcom X?

the x in Malcolm x didn’t mean 10

I know Leslie, I know.

Hi Gagsy99 You didnt know what the X ment till Leslie told you, You put your uneducated foot in it .

Ah come on Frank, I was being whimsical.
Sure everyone knows the X represented his love of algebra

I guess it was rigged so.

give it a few years, everyone will have voted no by then.

they majority of people who voted yes would like to keep it to themselves, they know they betrayed their country for the benifit of their pocket(misguided as that is). At least the the no voters know what is ahead of them, the yes side are under the misguided belife that things are going to improve. The joke is really on them

Neil
Was it really ? You sound like you know stuff…Go on Spill !!

The same with the rest of Europe saying your fearful… It’s the truth

I am more afraid of the incompetence, insincerity, veniality and greed of the majority of Irish politicians, from the complete spectrum of parties, than any Eurocrat.

Leaving the euro would be a very quick way of reducing wages. Are you in favour of that?

Yes.

Paul. I do not agree with you in any way that leaving the Eurozone would be a good idea. That is not my reason for this message. I want to thank you for clearly presenting our opinions as your opinions, without recourse to name-calling or mud-slinging. Maybe you will be correct, maybe not, time will tell. But if the population cannot use forums and websites such as this to openly and rationally discuss issues, then there is very little chance there will be any happy resolution. Escalation and “war for war’s sake” benefits neither side.

Hi Peter The English/German queen is returning to Cork to see her adoring rebels.

Classic, the mental imagery alone..

Tough times for the Shinnerbots. The realization that thejournal.ie comment boards are not actually reflective of the Irish people must be tough to take.

That’s great news Frank, she can stay in my house.

legions of them emerging from methadone clinics.

Adrian Connor
Have you got official statistics for that fantastical claim ! with links!

The correlation between the cohorts of “Republican” rioters/protesters and clinic attendees is quite stricking, just watch any footage of republican protests/riots. Methadone in hand and Armalite in the other… Or …tricolour in one hand and methadone in the other… Or …methadone and stolen property in one hand and Sinn Fein poster in the other. P

Adrian Connor
Ok read slowly …..
Official figures and links to your FANTASTICAL claims ,please.
I would be very interested to see them. Thanks .

It not easy to measure moronic behaviour and present it as a pie chart. May I suggest that a cultural anthropologist be engaged to observe these abhorrent beings and their behaviours. Prima Facia evidence =

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lVGGbXvOFs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Really Adrian Connor ,
Is this the best you can come up with ?
A mob ( which I disagree with) on the day Her Majesty arrived in Ireland ….
That tells me nothing of the GREAT claims you made against SF….”legions of them emerging from methadone clinics”
Ah well , I really did not expect you to have links or official stats because there are none .

Then why ask such a question. Oh, oh, I get it, your part of that shinner pay-ops battalion. I believe Mary Lou is your commander. Droning on for hours without actually making a point, asking questions with no answer. All a ploy to introduce self doubt and turn you into s shinner sleeper clone. I’m impervious to your methods, the force is strong within me.

OK . Adrian Connor
Why did you post such obviously dishonest claims If you know it is not true , why say it ?

“Shinnerbots”, brilliant. Thats going to stick. I’d say Ó Snodaigh was an early prototype whos programming was slightly off – print cartridges on a recuring memory loop.

Response to madeline above. Browser acting up.

I wasn’t aware that the entire membership of fine gael and the European Union had been convicted of terrorism? could you provide a link to the relevant news story?

no reply trueleft? no link? no evidence of threats?
then I’ll have to invoke shinnerbot reply no 6 ” if you have any evidence of criminal activity you should report it to the psni”
and shinnerbot reply no 7 ” i wasn’t aware anyone had been convicted of terrorism. Can you provide proof?”

No madeline, just not at my PC. While the members of fine gael and european ministers involved in the blackmail can be legitimately accused of terrorism based on their actions, Can you say the same for Gerry Adams? Name something he did that falls within the remit of terrorism.

Follow up question, did Gerry stand you up for your Debs or something. You speak like a woman scorned, after all….

Trueleft you haven’t provided a single link to evidence of threats or coercion, can you do so or not?

Who’s that then?

FF were involved in gun running .. Well their leader was. Who are the rest ?

Susie, I didn’t know Michael Martin was convicted of gun running can you provide a link to the relevant news article?

Madeline
That really is not your style . You are letting yourself down now , girl.
I never mentioned the bould Micheal ,did I ?

susie, you said the leader of fianna fail was convicted of gun running. Who is the leader of fianna fail? i’m really tired at the moment but isn’t it …

I NEVER said convicted ……. twisting my printed word now ? HUH !
Madeline ,tut tut tut……

you said you’d never mentioned Michael Martin in your earlier reply.

Re-reading you didn’t say convicted. I was taking convicted from the common shinnerbot idea that it can’t be said unless you’re convicted.
Still Michael Martin is involved in gun running that’s pretty big news susie..you should contact the journal. In fact i think i’ll contact ff for a response

Madeline
Read it from the start ,you are very mistaken . Very . Just read it through and you will see that you brought Mr Martins name up and you also introduced the word convicted. Good night Dear

Madeline .
Stop it NOW . You are making a fool of yourself.

Madeline
I am not SF .Not that it is any of your business . What is shinnerbot ? And again it is very obvious that you are not making any sense,. Amazing ! It is black and white on your screen . read it slowly dear .

FF, FG and SF all have evolved from murder and mayhem which party are you talking about here.

susie this is copied and pasted from your comment of 2 hours ago.
“FF were involved in gun running .. Well their leader was”
the leader of ff is michael martin isn’t it? unless there is some other political party in this country with the initials FF

Madeline angela hayes
Will you ever go away with yourself …. re read your history books ….
Do what you like with your copy and paste, I do not know what game you are playing but you are seriously deluded if you think that you are intimidating anyone ….. Again , good night .

Susie, leave they girl alone she seriously needs help and a lesson on Irish history

Stand back everyone Gagsy99 is not afraid ….
take a bow Gagsy 99
I voted NO and I am not afraid and I will continue to be unafraid.

You better believe it, sister, I am Gagsy 99, this is my jungle, and I am not afraid.

Ha ha
Gagsy 99
Did really print that! I like your style Lol.Altho Jaguar Paw was fighting literally for his life…
I watched Apocalypto (once) thought it was very sad and very violent , but just thinking about it now .
The ending left me feeling that however bad the past was , change or new beginnings is not always good, two sides to the one coin ….

You can exist in the EU without having the Euro, whether or not the Eurocrats would let that happen is another issue. They’re trying to push that ultimatum on Greece at the minute , right?

there is a pro SF bias on here

Because hes an elected TD and more important than you.

he’s more important than the public that you claim he represents? not aq very socialist democratic is it?

*democratic view

does anybody actually read this thread before they make comments, if you will notice most comments in support of SF get the thumbs down, while most comments in favour of the no side get the thumbs up. This must be really disturb the yes side

Ye John because what you have to say is much more important than anyone else’s say!! If you don’t like what you’re reading just find some thing else to read and leave people to speak their opinions :-)

Hi Simone, it’s actually Sean, cheers, hopefully you paid more attention to my comment before you posted!

No sorry John can’t say I did :-)

If it looks like a troll and acts like a troll, then it probably is a troll.

Gerry still trying to get to grips with democracy… There was a vote, you lost. How many people voted no because of fear of ‘eternal austerity’? How many people voted yes because they thought it was the sensible thing to do? Nobody knows, all we have is the result so stop moaning and looking for excuses.

Dead right,this recession Is only affecting a certain amount of people in Ireland such as myself , I am unemployed with two small kids and finding it very hard,and I still voted no,I can just guess the YES argument that my welfare would have being cut… Bring it on I say and while they were at it there own wages and that of there cronnies at the top of the civil service would also have to be cut…..

Brilliant comment Kevin. The fact is that the Rich voted Yes while the poor voted No.

It’s not a game Paul.

@Toirealach: Almost as arrogant & patronising a response as telling me I voted YES because I was “afraid”.

No Paul, as a member of FF you voted Yes, because you know you guys caused the crises in the first place and will continue to support the destruction of every little bit that is left for our children and future generations. Traitor rather than fear is the word that springs to mind.

Well said Cal :-)

Well if it wasn’t what other good reason was their to give up our ability to make our own decisions?

Yes it is Dissatisfaction with this Government and being sold out This Government should be charged with Treason

The Shinners are so quick to accuse anyone who dares disagree with them of being traitors. They really have a poisonous attitude to democracy.

Where was the word “traitors” used? Certain FF’ers were accusing No voterrs of being “unpatriotic”. Kind of the same thing, isn’t it?

Regardless of the outcome of the treaty the euro project is unravelling at a pace the likes of which has not seen before…. This treaty and the preceding treaties are like sticky bandages placed on oozing wounds… Where will it end nobody knows for sure….

Bl**dy sure it was fear ,but it doesn’t matter any more the referendum was passed and all we can do any more is to continue protesting at the austerity measures this government will continue to force on us… The thing about all of this is enda will yet again be seen as the liar he is along with the rest of the government… and they wont get voted in again .

Vote yes or we’ll kneeecap you, hey Gerry

@ Neil

Sinn Fein don’t have a monopoly on that attitude. All our political parties have that same contemptuous view of democracy. Consider the following. Fianna Fáil made us vote twice on two different referenda when they dodn’t get the answer they wanted. That was perhaps the biggest affront to democracy this country has seen since de Valera ignored the democratic will of the people and instigate the Civil War. No coincidence that Fianna Fáil was founded by the aforementioned de Valera. Sure Seán Lemass said that Fianna Fáil were a “slightly constitutional” party.

But this isn’t about Fianna Fáil bashing. Labour and Fine Gael are guilty of it too. They were elected with a democratic mandate which was given on the basis of pre-election promises which they have, for the most part, failed to deliver on. If that isn’t a poisonous attitude to democracy, I don’t know what is.

Mark: I deem that my personal post of the week!

@Noddy
cos we have a remarkable track record of being a thick nation unable to come to terms with financial reality

Why can’t people like Adams accept the vote, accept what the people have decided. Why does he always have to be negative! Every time he opens his mouth it’s, no no no no no, blah blah blah blah! Just bloody work with each and every group in the Dail now, and try and discuss what’s best for all of us.

The people spoke, work with it Adams! They didn’t vote out of fear. Sour grapes! The people he should be giving out about are the lazy sh1ts that didn’t bother to vote. They didn’t vote because they couldn’t be arsed. Yet, these people are the ones that will still complain and still get help, social welfare, children’s allowance etc. etc. People that did not vote that right should be taken from them immediately and never given back. Too many millions have been murdered because all they wanted was the right to vote and these lazy arseholes throw theirs away!

Sheila ,
Maybe it is because, Parties supporting Yes vote representing 80% of the electorate managed to get 30% of electorate to vote yes. Parties and independents representing less than 20% of the General Election vote get a No vote representing approx 20% of the electorate. Interesting proportional contrast there.

Keep telling yourself that but when this whole eurozone turns into a serious mess don’t come out moaning about it.

No to the gamblers under the banner of the left, yes to the gamblers who’ve already gambled away most of your future… smart move.

You beat me to it Leigh. I’d rather bet on the people of Ireland than the gamblers of banks. I am proud I voted NO.

who are sf fighting freddie? they certainly have enough tds with bomb-making experience

That would be a first

What a feeble excuse for voting yes. What a clown above.

Gerry was a definite factor in the yes result. If he’d supported yes the no side would have won.

Economic terrorism !
Time will tell.
I reckon there will be interesting times ahead .
Until all this austerity is sorted out ,if ever !
I do not like where we are heading .

I didn’t realise Gerry Adams had been convicted of terrorism. Can you link to the relevant news story for us please…….

sf meme number 7

but thanks for the thumbs down

He’s the most popular leader in ‘Ireland’, and what constituency are you referring to, Louth?

Yes. Just because this site is so dominated by shinners this doesn’t translate to the real world. They live in their own bizarre fantasy world and like to invoke the past when it suits them and dismiss it when it doesn’t.

@Gerard
oh so you believe that poll? do you believe any others?

@mcbab & Madeline

What are you blathering on about now? These trite and facile remarks regarding Sinn Féin are getting tiresome.
Also, I’m not a “shinner”, as you say, I just happen to agree with Adams on this issue. Are you both so narrow minded and prejudiced that you can’t evaluate an idea on it’s merits?

Cork are called the Rebels having rebelled for Britain in the 1600 wars I believe

not true check it out