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Government has ‘no intention’ of restricting internet freedom – Sherlock

Fine Gael Minister of State for Research and Innovation, Sean Sherlock. File photo.
Fine Gael Minister of State for Research and Innovation, Sean Sherlock. File photo.
Image: Sasko Lazarov/Photocall Ireland

THE GOVERNMENT HAS “no intention” of introducing legislation that would restrict the freedom of Irish internet users, the Junior Minister at the Dept of Jobs, Enterprise Innovation Sean Sherlock has said.

Speaking on RTÉ Radio 1′s Drivetime programme this evening, Sherlock said that it was “just not true” that websites like Twitter, Facebook and YouTube could be blocked under a new statutory judgement currently being reviewed by the Cabinet.

“This is not SOPA-type legislation” Sherlock said in reference to the draft, adding that it was a “restatement of that which we [the Government] held existed in Irish law already”.

Sherlock cited a High Court action involving EMI versus UPC and others, during which the judge “held the Ireland was in breach of the e-commerce directive” because that there was no law to allow for a person or entity to seek an injunction where there was a breach of copyright, he said.

Sherlock said that the Government had taken the advice of the Attorney General to “restate” the position set out in that case.

He said that users had the right to use the internet and internet service providers (ISPs) also had ”do their business”. He then cited the Scarlet judgement which stated that ISPs cannot generally monitor or put in place a filtering system against user – and reiterated that the Government had not intention of blocking websites.

On the issue of internet privacy, Sherlock said that tackling such behaviour was an “extremely difficult thing to do”as it presented the need to balance the rights of ISPs and copyright holders.

Also speaking on the show, Michele Neylon – Managing Direction of one of Ireland’s largest host providers, Blacknight – said that while he believed Sherlock was “trying best to address concerns” but that he suspected that he did not understand “the technical implications” of what he was asking.

Read: Everything you need to know about Ireland’s SOPA>

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Comments (67 Comments)

  • James Bohan 29 days ago #
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    Is he braindead? Of course it is. By the time every company has put in a complaint And will be granted, irish internet will be dead

    Reply
  • Paul Mallon 29 days ago #
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    Anonymous have taken an interest in this, according to twitter they’re getting ready to kick off here.
    Search #OPIreland

    Reply
  • Dave Garrett 29 days ago #
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    Would he not be better spending his time dealing with unemployment rather than this as that is what WE pay him to do. Get a grip Sherlock you prat.

    Reply
    • Ryan Allen 29 days ago #
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      Well he IS responding to the outcome of a court case taken which ruled Ireland was in breach of a directive. Surely that is part of his job description?

      I’d agree (and I think that most people would agree) that there needs to be some kind of law to allow for a person or entity to seek an injunction where there is a breach of copyright. Afterall if someone has put time into a song, album, TV show, movie, article, book or even a blog post – then they should be entitled to reap the rewards for their work.

      The problem is how to frame the law. Those opposed to it should make suggestions for amendments and shout them from the rooftops, rather than just shouting from the rooftops.

    • Alan Bennett 29 days ago #
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      @Ryan Allen I agree that the artist should be able to reap the rewards of his or her work – but NOT at the expense of freedom of speech and expression.

    • Patrick O'Brien 29 days ago #
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      Forcing ISPs to block sites or do packet inspection is not the answer. The music industry survived the taping songs off the radio crisis, they’ll survive this one too.

    • Kerry Blake 29 days ago #
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      @ Ryan. Problem is this law is going through as a minsters directive (think that’s the correct term) meaning there is no debate about it in Leinster house or anywhere else. So you can shout as loud as you like but there is no possible way for an amendment to be added.

    • Ryan Allen 29 days ago #
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      But if a blog post (as an example) was reposted somewhere else, and was subsequently removed for not crediting the original author, would that be infringement on the right to freedom of speech of the person who reposted it? In my opinion it wouldn’t be.

      I’d also question whether blocking sites that allow free downloads of TV shows and films (both expensive to make) is denial of freedom of speech. Surely the actors, directors and producers have a right to be rewarded for their work.

    • Patrick O'Brien 29 days ago #
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      Of course they have a right to be rewarded. We already have copyright laws for this purpose. Going after the ISP and forcing them to enforce those laws by blocking sites is the issue here. it’s an extremely slippery slope.

    • Kevin Smyth 29 days ago #
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      Why is it always the BIG music/ movie companies complaining over losing out. I rarely ever hear of an artist/ band/ actor whinging.
      Anyone remember South Park ep 709?
      This is the home of Lars Ulrich, the drummer for Metallica. [they approach a bush] Look. There’s Lars now, sitting by his pool. [he's seen sitting on the edge of a chaise longue, his face in his hands, softly sobbing]
      Kyle: What’s the matter with him?
      Detective: This month he was hoping to have a gold-plated shark tank bar installed right next to the pool, but thanks to people downloading his music for free, he must now wait a few months before he can afford it.

      Artists make great money through live shows, plus, there’s itunes. Problem??

    • Ryan Allen 29 days ago #
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      Its not just artists or actors on big TV shows or movies, it’s everyone from directors to camera people to writers and make up people. How are their jobs going to be sustainable if nobody actually buys the end product?

    • Kevin Smyth 28 days ago #
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      Ryan. I suppose all music artists, actors, directors, writers are on welfare these days? Funny that, I haven’t seen it mentioned in the news. Poor oul craters.
      BTW, illegal downloading is around years, it didn’t just begin last month.
      Serious question. Have you been using the internet long?

    • Ryan Allen 28 days ago #
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      There are plenty unemployed, but the news doesn’t exactly break down all the different categories does it? And so what if it has been around for a while. They are better late in trying to tackle it than never surely.

  • Adam Magari 29 days ago #
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    The music industry is calling the shots here. Of course Sherlock will have to get into line, hiding behind legal advice. Remember when Bertie and the cabinet got bumper pay rises? Nothing to do with him, he was simply following the recommendations of some committee or other of wise men. Same tired logic trotted out year in year out. If someone posts a link to a clip of something or other that’s indigestible to the music industry reps, who and what hosts it is bound to be a target, be it Twitter, Facebook, etc. Great country. Encourage social networking and search giants to set up, and leave them open to being closed down.

    Reply
  • JustDieter 29 days ago #
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    Lies, more lies…it is so very irritating, annoying rather. They genuinely do believe that all are sheep or brainless.

    Reply
  • KarlMarcks 29 days ago #
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    ‘Minister for Research and Innovation”? Some innovation this, which will kill off social media and internet employment in this country just as begin to take off. This Continuity FF government is full of idiots, and that includes the Attorney General.

    Reply
  • limofax 29 days ago #
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    Real eyes,
    Realise,
    Real lies!!!

    Reply
  • corky2004 29 days ago #
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    It’s becoming too much of a nanny state… Soon they’ll be limiting how many sheets of loo roll you can use each visit to the throne

    Reply
  • jimbo 29 days ago #
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    no sh1te sherlock

    Reply
  • Harry Cullen 29 days ago #
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    Do these people even understand what the internet is and why we, its regular users, are so worried about the introduction of bad law?

    Reply
  • Leila Jane 29 days ago #
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    It doesn’t matter at all what he’s saying what matters it the legislation itself. He can go on waffling all he wants it doesn’t change anything. Politicians aren’t renowned for being truthful.

    Eircom already block Pirate Bay sure. This is only the beginning.

    Reply
  • Neil 29 days ago #
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    It astounds me that while there is no law that targets ISP’s who host or provide access to child sex abuse content, priority is being given to making strict laws to prevent users sharing a Britney Spears’ song.

    Reply
  • Niamh Byrne 29 days ago #
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    Reply
  • Niall Roche 29 days ago #
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    Sean Sherlock is from the Labour party I thought?

    Reply
    • Richard Keogh 29 days ago #
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      He is but easy mistake to make. FG/Labour/FF they’re all the same. They make Maggie Thatcher look like a socialist.

    • Max Power 29 days ago #
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      Your point being? No offence Niall but what has distinguished Labour from any other beige centrist party since election day? Their leader was full of righteous indignation and socialist fervour in opposition but his colours seem to have run. Now the veil has been lifted on a windbag of questionable integrity who, along with his ministerial cohort has toed the centre-right line with barely a mis-step. As for our potential SOPA style legislation, I do believe Sean Sherlock doesn’t fully grasp what passing this law may bring about. Similarly, the same type of situation is happening in America i.e. out-of-touch / ill-informed politicians passing vague and potentially dangerous legislation to keep industry interests happy.

  • Jack Kelly 29 days ago #
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    I am very interested in what Anonymous will do. #OpIreland is around it seems.

    Didn’t Anonymous take down Fine Gael’s website during the last election?

    Reply
  • Colm A. Corcoran 29 days ago #
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    The primary issue I’d be concerned about here would be any potential damage to the Irish IT Industry, in particular the start ups.

    Introduction of a SOPA styled legislation would have most certainly raised the legal cost of running a small IT start-up, utilising the smallest of user-generated content such as a forum, to such a degree I think we would have seen successful Irish IT start-ups decrease dramatically.

    Thanks to Sherlock’s assurance though, at least we now know that the real nail-in-the-coffin (Injunctions against ISPs to block websites) has been removed of whatever new law that could be introduced for allowing injunctions relating to copyright violation online.

    To be able to serve injunctions cutting off website access until the court case is heard, would easily ruin a website dependent Irish IT company completely, even if the defendant won. And yes, I’m aware that if the plaintiff does lose the case they have to pay the defendant the damages of carrying out the injunction, however, I’m not so sure whether that would include paying the website owners the damages, it could just include paying the ISP for whom the injunction was served against.

    In summary though, Sherlock’s assurance is not satisfactory, although the most damaging tool of any new online copyright legislation has been removed he completely leaves open the types of injunction that could be still possible with any new law they may introduce. Honestly this annoys me immensely, while they’re sitting around on their arses thinking about this in private, Investors will be thrown into doubt about the small Irish IT industry, another blow to the Irish economy! Nice one lads!

    Reply
    • Paul Quigley 29 days ago #
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      Well said. Can’t believe in this time of crisis the government are spending time on ridiculous laws that will only harm the startup IT industry.

  • Frank Bourke 29 days ago #
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    “Government has no intention of restricting internet freedom – Sherlock.”

    Remind me again, what’s the road to hell paved with?

    Reply
  • Leila Jane 29 days ago #
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    They’ve taken down justice.ie :D

    Reply
  • Paul Anthony Ward 29 days ago #
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    Sherlock trending on Twitter now… Lot of opposition to this… Presume he won’t go ahead with it now…

    Reply
  • Rossa O Connor 29 days ago #
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    For to long the movie ,music industry have charged to much. Until they make music and movies etc affordable and to the point where it easier to pay for it rather than rip it off then there will always be ways to copy and distribute. In years gone by it has become easier for them to advertise, easier to target their markets they can distribute cheaper and produce cheaper yet they are not bringing down the prices to reflect this, recently I read today Netflix has entered the Irish market @ €6.99 a month, but sky has managed to block them from introducing newer releases by up to 15 months until they have shown it to their customers first , This is unfair and costing us more. So I got rid of Sky movies. A lot of older movies i haven’t seen on Netflix. Unfortunately this is not an option for a lot of people who can’t get proper broadband. So maybe he should focus on laying fibre optics nation wide and do something for this country that is worthwhile. Ireland should not be lining its self up for attacks by anonymous, especially when a lot of cloud computing servers will be based in Ireland.

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  • Neil Murphy 29 days ago #
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    Sean Sherlock just doesn’t get it.
    Individuals should be able to file an injunction against a copyright infringing website, not file an injunction against a service provider such as ISPs/search engines.

    ISPs and google are just infrastructure not offenders.
    When a car crashes into you on the motorway, it is the driver who commits the offence, not the motorway or the car.

    ISPs and search tools should be ringfenced against injunctions and liability.

    Reply
    • John Thomas 29 days ago #
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      Spot on Neil !

    • Cormac McCann 29 days ago #
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      on the button! But can you imagine the amount of our politicians who just don’t get that at all? The music/movie industry is trying to preserve their business.model instead of evolving to suit the new world of business! Netflix gets it! So do plenty of other new companies!

  • Kevin Smyth 29 days ago #
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    Sherlock is a hated man now. He’s got our attention.

    Reply
  • Gordon Lucas 29 days ago #
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    Checkout #opIreland on twitter…. #anonymous are taking down the justice.ie site.
    Fair Play to em

    Reply
  • alan 29 days ago #
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    classic case of taking up a postion without any awareness whatsoever of the issues involved. sherlock’s radio interviews recently have been farcical. today, mat cooper interviewing a lawyer who is fighting against the legisaltion, had to begin by stating that ‘as far as I understand’ Sherlock’s position is ….’ the lawyer then went ahead, in the most articulate fashion to highlight how ill advised the legislation is (showing both how wrong headed and inarticulate sherlock has been). why sherlock would ever get involved in such a complex and contested area as intellectual property rights is beyond me. he just isn’t up to it. future leader of the labour party? on the basis of his performance to date,i don’t think so

    Reply
  • Jack Dooner 29 days ago #
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    I’m confused…. so wtf is happening? Is SOPA going ahead in Ireland or what is happening?

    Reply
  • Jack Dooner 29 days ago #
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    I’m confused…. so wtf is happening? Is SOPA going ahead in Ireland or what is happening??

    Reply
  • Dougal McGuire 29 days ago #
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    Were becoming the North Korea of europe..where do they get all these ideas from?

    Who elected this clown

    Reply
    • Cormac McCann 29 days ago #
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      Not his idea Id imagine! More than likely music/movie industry lobbyists are scare mongering at the moment! “We’re losing billions! we’re gonna start having to sack thousands of folks!” even though they distributed file sharing software themselves through CNet downloads..giving limewire for example a 5 star rating for almost ten years? planning control of the internet maybe?…Jesus that sounds like something Jim Corr would say but it all happened!

  • Liam Byrne 29 days ago #
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    The government’s intentions and what’s actually going to happen are two different things. Sherlock better start listening to the people who know what they’re talking about; instead of greedy corporations. If a corporation has a problem with a site, they need to take it up with the site individually.

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  • Soupy Norman 29 days ago #
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    #Anonymous just posted all the TDs numbers on twitter.

    Reply
  • Ultan Quirke 29 days ago #
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    Nowhere in the article does it say that the injunctions in question would be against the ISPs. I think many of the comments here are based on that assumption, and that is by no means clear.

    I don’t think that anyone can reasonably argue against the protection of copyright, so if the injunctions are against individual sites there should be no problem. Copyright is an essential part of publishing of any kind and its weakening presents a serious disincentive to creativity.

    As for declaring that this is the start of a slippery slope, there is no evidence for that and none of us can see the future. I think that the unfortunate coincidence that has seen this issue surface at the same time as SOPA in the U.S. has done Sherlock no favours. The issue needs to be discussed on its own merits, not in comparison to draconian proposed legislation such as SOPA.

    Reply
    • Kerry Blake 29 days ago #
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      Problem is it is not going to be discussed at it is a statutory instrument, meaning it does not have to go through the Oireachtas. Bad law.

    • Neil Murphy 29 days ago #
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      The case mentioned in the article and statutory instrument refers to EMI vs UPC.
      UPC is an ISP mate. That’s what the fuss is all about. ISPs being forced to filter content (see IRMA vs eircom also – outcome: eircom filtered pirate bay). The argument is that copyright holders or even ISPs shouldn’t get to decide what websites or service are available to be people. EVER.
      If rightsholders have an issue with a website or individual, they should report/sue the website or individual.

    • Shanti Om 29 days ago #
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      How about allowing the creators of that intellectual property benefit from it? All these whale record companies merely make money off artists work. They don’t give anything away – the artist repays everything (out of the less than 10% they get). The Record Industry are the ultimate pirates, all they do is sit around being pompous twats like Simon Cowell, and getting filthy rich off someone else’s creativity or talent.

      Notice it’s only the big wigs who rip their artists off pushing for the legislation.. You don’t see the likes of Righteous Babe, Roadrunner, Serjical Strike, Loopz, or Warp out whining about their copyright do you? (note: they’re all independent, and predominantly ARTIST owned) they see the sharing community as a boost, it gets them heard, all artists know they make more from gigs, merch and direct sales anyway..

      It’s time the major record labels fell. And artists started actually getting what they’re owed. These legislations do nothing but continue the large scale rip off of musicians by their labels by propping up an industry that has beached..

  • Shauna McDermott 29 days ago #
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    Why are anonymous targeting govt websites at midnight?? Surely tomorrow morning would be better to cause disruption and attract attention to the growing opposition to the legislation?? Nice to see also that rte.ie is ignoring the whole thing.

    Reply
    • KarlMarcks 29 days ago #
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      Warning shot — they’ll hit when it’s busy if gov goes ahead with this.

      Worth noting that the judge in the UPC case later gave a radically different judgment in a similar case and stated publicly that his UPC judgment was WRONG. Yet Sherlock bases his Order on a wrong and superseded judgment to benefit his greedy corporate friends.

      Have the IT, internet and social media sectors made their views known? Will they mount a one-day Internet strike as in USA?

  • Niall Roche 29 days ago #
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    @max power, my point about being from Labour was to point out to the Journal that the caption under the photo was wrong. That’s all really. As for what those titles mean? I guess your right, nothing, nothing at all!

    Reply
    • Max Power 28 days ago #
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      Apologies Niall. My bad. As you can tell, that Labrador Party rant has been bubbling under for a while. ;-)

  • Andnord 29 days ago #
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    See? This is what happens when you let someone who looks like they belong on a rice crispies box into govt.

    Reply
  • James Gammell 29 days ago #
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    The scope for the abuse of these laws is huge. If this passes any website that has user generated content- blogs, forums etc can be shut down by a hostile party with ease. All it will take on a forum is to run an account for a few weeks then go back and edit your posts to be links to copyrighted content, then report the site to earn the host a 30 k day in court.

    And the ability to kick users off the net for downloading copyrighted content? Many services like twitter already use shortened URL systems which means the link you click 100 times a day could be to a website, to begin downloading copyrighted content or begin ddosing a US government website, and you would not know it till after the fact. And it will not be our government or even our judicial system that gets to make the call on intent, it will be a foreign corporation, who can at a whim force any irish citizen into an expensive court date to prove their innocence.

    Who in their right mind is going to run a forum after this passes??? It will be like putting a bomb around your own neck.

    Reply
  • Dave McCarthy 28 days ago #
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    “no intention” doesn’t mean it won’t happen

    Reply
  • John Ó'Ríordán 27 days ago #
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    Might I suggest everyone spends 5 minutes looking at this great Video on ACTA which explains everything in terms we can all understand? A far as I understand Seán Sherlocks legislation does pretty much the same thing here in Ireland. Not that it matters when ACTA comes into force.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Xg_C2YmG0

    Reply

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