Yes, and the “rebels” in Libya were Al Queda from other parts of the middle east.. Supported by the CIA
http://tarpley.net/2011/03/24/the-cia’s-libya-rebels-the-same-terrorists-who-killed-us-nato-troops-in-iraq/

Switching from the dollar to the euro is what caused the war in Iraq as the Americans didn’t want to pay the extra exchange rate.

Iran hasnt attacked another country since the persian empire attacked india nearly 300 years ago. Israel have nukes and are very trigger happy if they know they can get away with it with american or nato backing. They would attack and nuke iran in the morning if they could. Iran having or making it seem like they could have, makes other countries think twice. Why should israel be the only ones allowed have nukes in that area. Ideal world no one would. But dont believe all the american propaganda, they have their own agenda.

Well said here here

Mr Begrudgy, Do you have inside information to confirm that the attacks in India and Thailand in the last couple of days were not by Iranians as the evidence suggests ( I will accept that there is some remote possibility that this is some sort of nefarious plot to blacken the Islamic Republic, which is more credit than many around here give to the blindingly obvious explanation). What about Rushdie? (cue, deafening silence). Hamas, Hezbollah, Assad, Buenos Aires? Three hundred years? Give me a break.

Israel won’t do it themselves, they will send the yanks in to do the dirty work.

and we’ll all be riding bicycles as it will be $400 a barrel for oil ,but its ok because you won’t have a job to go to anyway as $200 is the tipping point for economic collapse .Happy Days all

No Iranian has ever called to wipe Israel off the map. The idiom does not exist in Persian. It is a mistranslation at least, deliberate deception at worst..

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/144682/was-wiping-israel-map-misquote/michael-rubin

Are you serious, and nuclear weapons are great if nobody uses them, they ensure everyone behaves because of the threat of using them. The problem is does anyone seriously believe that iran WON’T use them if they have them, and on Israel first? Make no mistake they will. First they will do what they have always done, whatever the Hell they want but they’ll swear blind they’ll stop if America and the EU etc can come to an “arrangement”, drop some sanctions etc and they’ll stop some of their nuclear program and allow inspectors. They won’t. They’ll just procrastinate and delay but behind the scenes keep on doing what the want to do untill some day Iran has short, medium and long range missiles with nuclear warheads and they’ve just wiped Isreal off the map. The day after that they won’t be asking America for anything, they’ll be telling calling the shots and telling every Westerner to get out of the Gulf and many other places. Think things are bad now and expensive? Just wait untill that happens, and don’t fool yourself and think it wouldn’t. It would, an oil rich nation wants a nuclear cpability for more than just energy.

Brian, look at the bigger picture.
There’s no evidence that Iran are pursuing nuclear armament.
The idiom “wiping Israel off the map” does not exist. They have called for a regime change and an end to the settlements on non Isreali land.
They have opted out of the dollar, and decided to do their business in Euro instead.
They have signed the Nuclear proliferation treaty, they objected to American inspectors as they see the US as an Israeli pawn – considering the way the exercise their vetoes at the UN, they can be forgiven for this assumption. They HAVE however agreed to and welcomed inspectors of other nationalities – results pending.

Gaddaffi wanted to bring Africa together as a union with a gold backed currency, he was sitting on a LOT of gold, and the “rebels” that led the uprising and were backed by the US and NATO were the same guys they fought against in Iraq.
He was executed without trial.

Sadaam switched to the Euro shortly before the US steamrolled his country.
We were told he had WMDs, none were ever found.

Israel are sitting on quite a few nukes, they frequently ignore international laws, and have been quite agressive toward their neighbours since before their state was recognised.
They refuse to sign any nuclear treaties, and do not submit to inspections by anyone regardless of nationality.
They posses the greatest arsenal in the area and also have the history of aggression to their neighbours, and have been censured by the UN many times for these attacks.
They also refuse to sign bioweapons treaties, and have used White Phosphorous and raw sewage on their neighbours.

The US have gone to war in a country on an unfounded accusation, executed their leader, started another war in Afghanistan, sponsored terrorism in Libya, and admitted to assassinating Iranian scientists only suspected of working on bombs.
They also are the only country in the world to have ever actually nuked anyone. And stand to lose a lot from these Muslim countries refusing to take their meddling any longer.
America has been sticking its nose into the middle east for at least a century, without provocation. Any response from them is retaliation, not attack.

I have less logical reason to worry about Iran than I do about the US, or Israel for that matter.

We’ll see.

I’m sure we will Brian.. Same way we saw that Saddam didn’t have WMDs..

@Brian
20 seconds after Iran launched a mythical nuke at Israel they would cease to be a country and become a glass parking lot .Between israeli nukes and US missiles in Turkey and ship based US and UK missiles .So do me a favour and tell you’re bogey man stories to those too ignorant to bother using common sense .You have no evidence that Iran would commit national suicide simply to hurt Israel it’s bullshit and ridiculous and you know it!

would America allow Iranians to poke around their facilities ?

They may be a propaganda machine nationally, but America have had the world brainwashed for years with their propaganda. And they did allow inspectors in with full access, you just haven’t heard anything about it cause, surprise surprise, they didn’t find anything.

Media propaganda lol

Do you not know the worlds worst offender of controlling the press and what is dished out to us?

Yup it’s closer to home it’s American and UK news. Lmao @ Iran and N Korea. The west is 10 times more professional and better at it. Sure they went to war in Iraq for no reason and we believed it lol WMD.

@Jeff – The Iranians are not being asked to allow America unlimited access to their nuclear facilities. The problem is the IAEA are not being granted the access necessary to confirm that Iran’s nuclear programme is exclusively for peaceful purposes.

@ Daniel – Iran has not cooperated fully with the IAEA. You should read their Board of Governors report, which is available for free on their website.

I wouldn’t believe everything/anything you are told about on skynews.

Thats so feckin hilarious Iran supporting Al Qaeda is like Gerry Adams becoming commander of the UVF its completely illogical .but if enough people are stupid enough to believe it then were fecked

Post 2003 our propaganda is so much more see through. Israel can fight it’s own war for all I care, you’d wish the US would take their time before leaping into conflict again, such as before WW1 & 2, but their lobby culture will soon put an end to that. Anyone know where to buy cyanide?

America has a geopolitical agenda that needs a friendly government in Tehran ,it suits Saudi and the Sunni controlled Arab league as much as Israel if this happens

But NATO and the US backed Al Queda in Libya, that’s a tad hypocritical isn’t it?

This is an example of the US/UK/Israeli propaganda machine at work as they lube up the gears of war.

It’s disgraceful and is pure hypocrisy.

Don’t believe the hype

Thanks for that. I thought the Catholic Church ruled Ireland for decades, they’re rank amateurs compared with the Muslims in Iran.

Exactly, while I don’t want them getting a nuclear weapon who are we to say otherwise. These sanctions will only hurt the people and not their leaders.

Really? On accusations and no evidence?
Look at the language, some western leaders “feel” it is trying to buy time.. Western leaders “suspect” they are developing weapons.. And if Rick Santorum is to be believed the US already has an active programme to assassinate their scientists!!

I don’t agree with everything to do with Iran, but logically, it is America and their allies slinging all the mud and doing all the attacking..

Clearly the irony of my statement was lost on a good few people.

Oops *blush* I’ll go stand in the corner with all my friends now ;)

How exactly are iran a major cause for concern in the future.

It’s only really a concern for Saudi Arabia, who are their real enemy. America maybe, and I suppose the west in general, only need worry about it because of oil prices. Militarily Israel would wipe the floor with Iran. The main reason they might strike Shia Iran is if it looks like it might get pre eminent in the mid east over Sunni Saudi Arabia.

@Begrudgy – I think it is a major cause for concern because it would likely mean the end of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Can’t be a good thing.

Because they too know the oil is going to run out

Under the terms of the NPT, Iran has the right to develop a peaceful nuclear energy programme and is entitled to assistance from the international community in developing one. Nuclear energy is cheap (once it gets going) and relatively clean. Plus, oil will eventually run out.

Ok.. First off, if you hit reply I’ll get a notification you replied.. When you reply at the bottom of the screen I don’t. After a day or so I’m inclined to stop checking old threads, so I’m liable to miss your response and it may seem I am not replying..

You may as well have just quoted Brasseye (“There’s no evidence for it but it is fact”), you said “it’s not conclusive but it’s evidence” – do you realise the inherent contradiction there? It’s evidence of the what, where and how – not the who or why.

In all of these news stories the grammar is very telling, Western leaders FEEL, THINK, BELIEVE, SUGGEST etc.. Not, “we have conclusive proof and now we shall act upon it”. There is an overwhelming burden of proof resting on the shoulders of the US and Israel, they never found WMDs, they supported Gaddaffis unjust execution without trial by foreign terrorists – the same guys they were fighting in Iraq!! These reports are pure appeal to fear, ad hominem, guilt by association, spotlight fallacy, poor translation, appeal to common belief, appeal to emotion, confusing cause and effect, red herrings, straw men, you name it, the US / Israel have used every single one of them and more, talk about wagging the dog.. Anything steeped in that much fallacy simply cannot be truth.

They went to war there for GOD. Gold, oil and drugs. That’s why the museums have been raided and artefacts have shown up discarded in the US. Gaddaffi was sitting on quite a stockpile of gold there, I guess Africa can say goodbye to the gold dinar and escaping poverty, the Oil is a given – anyone can see that, and there’s US soldiers guarding poppy fields all over the place.. Not to mention the US funding of the Taliban, or backing the Al Qaeda troops (see the link I posted above) in Libya..

Really, when you look objectively at where the hostility originates and dominates, it’s not the Arab world. They are by no means perfect, and democracy would do them a lot of good – but that is the Iranian peoples battle, not the Wests.

As for Ahmadinijads ramblings, every Iranian I have spoken to is embarrassed by him. And it is not relevant to this discussion. We are talking here about Iran being ACCUSED of developing nuclear weapons, of which as yet there is no evidence. Whereas there is much evidence of wrong doing on the side of the accusers. The accusers have even got a history of pulling this same exact stunt, and that was only a few years ago – surely people didn’t forget so fast?
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to make the same mistakes.

1. I don’t speak Persian. I have some Iranian friends, big difference, thanks for your assumption..
2. There’s a lot of people who do not think 9/11 was down to Al Queda. A lot of them are American. In fact, I’ve read plenty of Americans congratulating Ahmadinijad for speaking the truth.. I can’t say Israel were involved, I am merely saying that he is most definitely not alone in his views.

I’m not a big truster of mainstream media.. The amount of fallacies and false rhetoric leaves a bad taste in my mouth which is why when considering something I try to look at the Alternative media too.. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle.. I’ve seen the BBC outright lie on many occasions so my trust in them would be similar to my trust in RTE.

Besides, the New York post is unfortunately very openly biased. And the US gov have been keeping their people on high alert for terrorism for a decade now – for what? How many terrorist attacks have happened? You’d think after the US funded terrorism and war in the area and messed with the middle east for a century the Arabs would be a bit more into the retaliation than they are.. If anything, their attitude to the US has been rather forgiving..

You know, you bring up the Holocaust but you don’t recognise the nazi methods of propaganda.. This is why I speak to you.. Hitler made out that the Jews were threatening German life, that they were a threat to his way of being, that they attacked people (the Bolshevik involvement in the Holodomor was easily twisted to be a solely Jewish act as such a large number of the officers were Jewish).. history is repeating itself and you don’t even recognise it.. This is indeed a sad day..

I laughed at this

Last time I checked it was illegal to attack another country ,and I have never thought Iran wanted to be wiped out ( the residue from a nuke is easily traced to it’s reactor ) so do you really believe they have a national death wish? and all the radiation that will fall on you’re short sighted head from a damaged reactor will negate the need for them to blow a bomb up

People need to start looking at alternative media as a news source cause 95% of the worlds MSM including Hollywood, music, tv and news is owned by just 6 corporations which themselves are owned by rich assholes with their own agendas who dont care about you.

Jeff, tell that to suicide bombers. Iran sent their children across mine fields to denonate them during the Iraq/Iran war. Normal logic doesn’t apply.

Me too, god love the brainwashed

Mine too.

Actually Brian in fairness I got an email about one of your responses and came over to respond but I couldn’t find it here.. I was going to ask you for your sources, but I don’t see how you did anything wrong by posting it..

Yeah I didn’t say much, just that I stood corrected and I had actually heard that that was a misquote before. I then said I still wasn’t comfortable with an Islamic regime having nuclear weapons (bad enough with Pakistan).

Had another comment underneath my original post deleted – it seems as if you can’t insult Islam here (dying to post something along the lines “BEHEAD THOSE…” but I’m hoping you’ll actually get to read this reply in the morning), which is strange. It’s not racist, it’s a religion. People are free to make the conscious choice to believe in that tripe but I’m still going to think they’re crazy and/or stupid – and I’m still going to say it even if they ban me for the sixth time!

Ah the beauty of pseudonyms…

I know Muc, I read it in my emails..
This is something I was discussing on the article about secularists taking over..
It seems in the struggle for religious equality we have wound up with a weighing scales tipping wildly from one side to the other. We started out with a predominance of christianity, now, as secularism grows and multiculturalism expands, we are exposed to new ideas.. And if there is one thing most people fear it is change and the unknown.
Sadly, in an attempt to force equality, the incumbant religion (Catholicism or Christianity – I have been aggressively informed that they are quite different!) is suppressed, while the other religions seem to be granted greater freedom to practice.. Because of the simultaneous nature of these two opposing trends – the Christians feel hard done by, they feel overwhelmed, which is understandable – as the scales often dips a little too far below balance.

But when we look at our history, christianity and the west have a long history of conquering, persecuting, and suppressing other religions. The west as I said has stuck its nose in where it was not welcomed (the middle east) for a century now. Arming middle eastern nations, playing them off each other, funding terrorists.. I mean you can say what you like about Iran, maybe they don’t hide their desire for an end to the US’ dominance and for Israel to be put in its place, but the US are far more sneaky, offering alliance on one hand while holding the knife behind their back..

I’m more worried by sneaky people than those who make no qualms about expressing their intentions honestly, I will wait until I have seen proof of Iranian weapon production before I condemn, as the previous experiences with Saddam, Gaddafi etc have given me reason to not be so trusting of what I am told by the mainstream media.

I would suggest that perhaps some of the articles you pointed towards are as much a spotlight fallacy as the many Haaretz articles about extremist Jews in Israel who call for destruction of the Arab world. And if you look around US sites there are plenty of extremist christians screaming for muslim blood to be spilled. There’s a lot of people who take those books far too literally – in spite of all the blatant contradictions within. Personally, I don’t get it.. What does killing someone else do? It just messes with your karma.

There are crazy people in all religions, countries and towns. But that doesn’t make them all the same. I have known several Iranian Muslims, all of whom were quite moderate, secular even. Far from being hidden away behind a burka or hijab, the girls chose not to wear even a headscarf, some were bellydancers – thats certainly not covered up. According to them Iran is like Ireland in that you have your faithful and the majority of younger people are secular. Far from living in what looks like the stone age, they have developed cities and towns as well as the more rural areas (where the more fringe elements are found). They just didn’t like living under the theocracy, like a large chunk of their society, hence they came and settled here. Their description of Iran (which did come with criticism) was nowhere near as backward as we are led to believe. This is why I am careful to scrutinise the grammar, then the logic, then the rhetoric – as the trivium teaches, as only then can we ascertain the truth of any situation.

1. When did I say I was happy for Israel to be put in its place? If you would care to look back, I said: “I mean you can say what you like about Iran, maybe they don’t hide their desire for an end to the US’ dominance and for Israel to be put in its place”, this is not MY desire. Perhaps you misread me.. Or perhaps it’s a straw man.
2. America don’t claim to know better? They don’t claim that their way is the only way? That they are the free (despite the Patriot Act and the NDAA)?
Their leaders don’t claim that god told them to go to war?
3. State sponsored terrorism? We have no substantial evidence of terrorism coming from Iran. Whereas we have a Republican presidential candidate talking about how wonderful it is they have a programme to kill Iranian scientists on suspicion alone, the CIA backing Al Queda operatives to lead the uprising in Libya and MOSSAD using Irish passports to assassinate people? Who has state sponsored terrorism??
4. If the inspectors find any evidence of Iranians enriching uranium beyond the levels required for energy, I’ll say fair enough, they were lying – there is no reason to give them any credence any longer. As yet, this has not happened.
I deal in logic and evidence, show me the actual evidence of your reasoning and I may change my mind.. (and I’m not talking western news reports from sources with known conflicts of interest filled with weasel words, fallacy and false rhetoric)

Because it is impossible to say “wipe Israel off the map” in Persian.
What Ahmadinijad said that was misquoted is:
 ”Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad.”
This means:
“The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time”.
 
  Word by word translation:
 
    Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).
 
This is not the same as wipe Israel off the map, and in fact resembles that Irish Independent translation of Magdas story. He was opposing the REGIME and the OCCUPATION of Jerusalem. This is not the same as wishing death upon all Israelis.

I haven’t managed to find exactly what you are referring to (in Persian to try and get a correct translation). I did ask you to link me to it so that I could do some more research but you never did, I don’t suppose you could point me in the correct direction now please?

If you are referring to the cancer statement I would refer you to the Wikileaks cables that suggested Cancer may have particular significance to the man.

Again, he was offering help to anyone hoping to end the regime, not the Jews, the Zionist regime.
Like the guys at Jewsnotzionists.org he obviously does not believe that those who claim to speak for the Jews are true Jews. This would probably be because as a muslim he must study the Jewish and Christian scriptures, as Islam is based on the Laws of Abraham. He distinguishes the “cancer” as Zionist, which is seperate. Zionism is not a religion, it is a political ideology. As such, Christians may be Zionist, indeed the vast majority of American Zionists are Christian.

With regards describing them as cancerous.. Well. Before the mandate of Palestine and the Balfour declaration, the Arabs, Christians and Jews in the region lived side by side in peace. It was only when the Brits and Yanks showed up sticking their noses in under the coercive influence of Chaim Weissman that hostility broke out. The state of Israel was founded on the Levitical punishment handed out at Deir Yesin, originally blamed on a splinter terrorist group, but they had evidence of the new Israeli governments involvement in the deed.
Within the first few years of its existence Israel had attacked many of its neighbours, using the arms they were given to protect them from German retaliation, so you can appreciate why they see Israel as a source of discord in the area – a cancer.
Their involvement with the US, a nation that Iran sees as a nosey neighbour who won’t bugger off is a further insult to these nations, who never asked for the Wests involvement but got it anyway.

This is based upon simply using the trivium and a bit of background info to ascertain what was said, as I say – without an accurate translation of his statement this is merely based upon the wests interpretation.. But to me it sounds like the man wa speaking in metaphor – something religious people tend to do.

Splitting Hairs?
I’m looking for truth. If someone says something and is not specifically quoted then something untoward is going on. It’s called Propaganda and if you, like Brian above, do not recognise that, then what can anyone do?

I have seen Zionist arguments for the Israeli state thanks.. They made me sick.
I agree that if the Jews want a homeland they should have one, but if you look at history, pre WW2 more Jews were leaving Palestine than going there..
I’ve seen Israeli people speak out against the state (see “Beyond the TV News: Arabs in Israel” by Chaim Yavin – Israels best loved news Anchor), I do not believe that the Israeli Zionist government has the Jewish people’s best interests at heart, same way the US gov – or even our own, do not truly care for their people.

I’ll try get my hands on that book (I’m in the middle of 5 others at the moment), and for you to see the other side of that book I suggest you check out Douglas Reid (former foreign correspondent for the Times newspaper) “The Controversy of Zion”, he was dismissed as an anti Semite because of this book, but if you read it you will see he is clearly anti Zionist, not anti Jew.