If I pay, can I get one of those in my community? I’ll even settle to get bulbs replaced in the street lights.

Are those Kids really small? Or are the flowers just crazy big? ;-)

Alan Hayes
I think it is one of those blow up portable look good stage settings …..
They will rent it out to your community for a day for the drop down price of €3.1billion annually, but you must register first :) :)

Yes, it’s like something out of Soviet Russia.

I’d love to encounter them on my doorstep!

Any other taxes you’d like to refuse to pay while you’re at it?

Management fees are in place to pay for council services as councils won’t take control of estates until they are finished and estates are never considered finished because councils don’t want to take them over, you seem to be happy paying unjustifiable taxes Gary, why not pay mine too.

Not sure where you saw I was happy. I’m asking what the alternative is? A question that the don’t pay brigade have spectacularly failed to answer.

Which one? I’m finding it hard to see if i avail of any of these “Essential local services”. I thought the Fire and emergency services was one but i’ve since found out that my insurance covers that

Water supply is pretty essential in my house. And your insurance covers fire service charges only. The rest you get for free.

@ Keith, I already pay taxes Keith so what do I get for free? Bin collection? No have to pay for that myself. Street lighting? No no street lighting were I live. Roads in good condition? No. Drains? No have my own septic tank thanks. Please detail these ‘free’ services you say I’m getting cos I would love to avail of them.

@Keith – I already paid approx €5000 for my own Water well and water softner so the ‘water as part of the services’ doesn’t apply to me. I paid approx €8000 for a septic tank and percolation unit so the benefits of wastage that Urban dwellers avail of doesn’t apply either.

Don’t be fooled, this isn’t for services, its to pay the bondholders, stop paying them and a lot more people would consider paying the hhc. Lets stand together one this, rural and urban, don’t pay.

Well said Niamh

I find it hard to believe that none of you obtain any benefit from roads being salted, hedging being cut, traffic lights, a twenty four hour emergency service, road obstructions being cleared, oil spills being cleared, bridges being maintained, local parks and playgrounds.

This is the first tax that is being properly ear marked for particular services. It reduces the need for local councils to rely on the government for funding which is how it should be.

Think you will find that the local land owner is responsible for keeping their hedges in order and not the council in most counties if not all.

@Keith – Tourists avail of all the services you just mentioned! Do we get them to pay the €100 while they’re in the country?

That’s quite the strawman you’ve produced. So do I take it you’ve moved on from saying you don’t use services to a new argument that it’s not fair to charge for them?

No, we haven’t moved to a different argument. In fact, any of the services that you mentioned, i.e. street lights etc.. weren’t mentioned by the government as part of the services that the €100 covered.

I meant ‘Traffic Lights’, not ‘Street Lights’

Where do you think the money comes from for traffic management Ritchie? Perhaps if you actually think about all the things supplied by the council you will see why they need to be funded. I’ll be saving my anger for when they try to increase the tax in the next budget because that will cost a lot more than €100.

@Keith – The Household charge states the exact services that are supposed to be provided. You can check the leaflet that was dropped in your door, if it was dropped in your door.

I would assume the cost for traffic management comes from other taxes that we already pay?

It comes from the local council budget. The same kitty the charge goes into.

@Keith: is the govt scrapping income taxes? How do you think those “services” you’re talking about have been funded up until now?

I can’t wait either. ;)

Yay ! Last sat was a great experience , next saturday will be better ! So many like minded people together just showing that we are not alone .

CANT PAY, WON’T PAY

Sorry for crashing but I just want to make it clear that the first fine is €10 going up to approx €40 after a year. To implement this fine they will have to take us to Court, everyone of us.

Dream on FG/Labour. You’re about to have a nightmare.

Oooh cool fighting talk, Reada! Can’t wait to see this blow up jn hogans face

And again I ask how we fund the state without extra taxes and additional cuts?
Only 5% of our deficit this year is going to pay for banks, out of roughly 14 billion, http://economic-incentives.blogspot.com/2011/11/deficit-and-banks.html. The rest is overspending on government services, PS pay and social welfare.
I get it that some people are suffering and I’d safely say most of us don’t want to pay additional taxes. What are the choices though? Because to be quite honest some of you are in fantasy land if you think we can avoid this tax or one very much like it.

Looking at the “final reminder” leaflet, I can’t help noticing all the lies and spin about what the charge will supposedly be used for (essential local services, public parks etc). Do they think we are fools?

Stop paying lying and corrupt politicians , stop putting billions into DEAD banks . and we need not pay it End of !

Fair point. Isn’t a shame that nobody can trust the government not to squander or embezzle their money. If you were contributing to cancer charity and you discovered the head of that charity was corrupt, funds were going to pay the salaries of executives and European wealth management companies rather than to cancer patients, would you continue to contribute to that charity?

ill be there!

Good man Dave. You can tell your children you were there the day Ireland said we’re going to take on the Banks and Win. Loving this People Power! It’s time we realised this country is one big family. We are not a corporation. See ya!

Who is behind this march and what numbers are expected?

That is EXACTLY it!
I think for most people this is not about refusing to pay 100 euro to the common good. It is about a combined campaign to put it clearly and strongly that people will not purposefully pay money to corrupt and wasteful government and state institutions to be squandered and misspent. The litany of corruption and abuse of public funds is outrageous and the level of public service handed back to the citizen is dire. Our money pays for PR machines and spin doctoring when our elderly are left abandoned and our children reared in ignorance. FAS, HSE, SIPTU, Planning, Local Government, Education, it has infected every corner of Irish society. Cronyism in every nook and cranny. Smirking and grinning party lackys lap up state and judical appointments. Slobbering snouts slurping and swilling while the cream of our nation are lining up to leave, leaving a nation of fools to keep the goons in power.
Not with my 100 euro

No one knows who to trust any more . I trust me and those close to me . I will not pay this austerity tax and I will be at the march .

This is the day the Promissory Notes are due. This is the last day to register for this amoral tax. And it’s also the day Fine Gael are having their Árd Fheis is the Convention Centre on the Quays. The fact FG had the arrogance to choose this building should not go unnoticed. I think it’s quite apt. They have no respect for us. They want us to keep paying for the mistakes of financial institutions. Well they can forget it.

The perfect storm reada, I shall see you there.

Brilliant idea

dead right reada
ill be there!
and i might even be sober!!!!

See you there!

Réada. It actually pains me to see you lying that the money is going to pay bankers and bondholders. I may often disagree with you but I took you for an honest person. But I’ve given you links that, for example, prove that 95% of our deficit this year in not going to the banks. Campaign for whatever you like but have some honesty and integrity.

http://economic-incentives.blogspot.com/2011/11/deficit-and-banks.html
“If we do a simple counterfactual and magic away the €62.5 billion we have pumped into the banks, the projected deficit for 2012 would fall from €13.6 billion to €12.8 billion or 8.0% of GDP. Eliminating the effect of the bank payments would knock 5% off the deficit; 95% of next year’s deficit is not related to the bank payments.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0323/1224313766388.html
“Three claims are frequently made:
* Most public debt is a result of taking on banking debt;
* The economic and budgetary outlook would be transformed if banking debt could be offloaded;
* A bailout would not have been needed had it not been for socialised banking debt.

These claims are, respectively, plain wrong, wrong and debatable.”

gary,
that may be so.

u are missing the bigger picture.

its the moral one.

hahaha a moral one. Are you joking? Being fúcking moral won’t fund the country. *WE* elected Fianna Fail repeatedly to fúck up the country. Now *WE* are reaping what we’d sowed. Oh believe me, it pains me, as I didn’t vote for them but large numbers did.
Sorry but this whole campaign is pathetic… Let’s pretend we’re giving all our money to bankers and ignore we’re actually spending it on government services etc. Truly pathetic and dishonest.

@Gary: those links don’t support for the case for paying the household charge. It’s clear from reading both analyses that the banking debt IS a problem. The authors are simply pointing to the fact that a lot of people are focused on the banking debt and not paying attention to the annual deficit – which is a huge problem …. so why do you think we need to pay the household charge, it’s quite a leap. I’d have expected you to be supporting the many people on here who are saying we need to stand up for ourselves and do something about this.

@skeolawn. Of course bank debt is a problem but the *huge* problem we face is our spending deficit. Day after day people in here are saying they won’t pay their household charge as it is going to pay bankers. That just isn’t true. It’s not going to pay bankers it’s going to fill the nearly 14 billion between our taxes and spending. The bottom line here is we’d still be introducing this property tax even if we didn’t pay the banks a red cent… FACT. It’s in the articles.

gary,
how much will we pay the banks this year?
how much will the gov hope to raise with the household bullshit?

Gary
Just for the sake of progressing this discussion beyond the ‘money going to bankers’ logic (which I don’t swallow by the way).
Lets accept your argument that the household charge (in all it’s unfairness to certain sections of the community) is going towards fixing roads, parish pump potholes, the squeeky gate on someone’s council house, or poor auld Mrs. Soap who has been writing to her local useless councillor for months to get the street light fixed. Grand! Lovely, and sure the government are going to introduce a ‘more equitable system’ in a year or so when some useless shower have figured out how to do it!
But back to the pothole, if you don’t mind. I remember during the winter watching a typical council ‘pothole repair crew’ at ‘work’: A monsterous big truck, three men – a driver that never leaves the cab, a lad for the shovel and the other bozo’s in charge of the squart of tar.
Bear with me here Gary it’s gets good. They arrive at the designated pothole which is full of water, OK. The shovel man tries to get a few scoops out with his shovel and gives up. Then the tar squarter fella squarts a few shots of hot tar INTO the water generating copious amounts of steam before shovel man fires in his chippings. A few pats of the back of the shovel for a finishing flourish and the job’s OXO! This whole operation is interspersed with lengthy conversations with passing friends and a general casual attitude is maintained by all.
Ten minutes later a whonking great bin lorry tears by and the fine work of our chums is scattered far and wide.
This carry on goes on all over the country every day Gary. You know I’d nearly rather see the bloody bankers make off with my loot!

Oh! You might be a bit confused by my first sentence there Gary. Apologies – my mistake! I DISAGREE that the 100 euro is NOT going to bankers. The 100 euro is being offset against the money that is going to the buggers!

Ok, so maybe people are confused about the exact purpose of the household charge … and maybe they’re not.

Why does it matter? This is an opportunity to send a message that things need to change and that we’re no longer going to lie down and take it. The “cure” to the crisis is in danger of killing the patient. I can understand why you’d be frustrated with some of the magical thinking that goes on, but at the end of the day this is simply not a credible path to recovery.

@John Murphy. No offence but you’re just doing the ole “I’d pay if only for______________ (insert reason here)” trick. Of course the government need to be more efficient, that goes without saying. Making council workers more efficient isn’t going to save 14 billion a year though is it. There is going to tax rises, austerity and efficiency… there is no choice.
This whole campaign would be fair better targeted specially at overpaid civil servants, high levels of social welfare payments and creating efficiencies. Because no matter what there are going to be tax rises, we need a more sustainable tax base.

@skeolawn. The household charge is going into the central pot of money like all taxes, as stated in the constitution. We don’t get to decide where it’s spent. That said it’s a total myth it’s going to pay for banks. It really is going to the places the government says on the leaflet.
You’re right I have a major problem with some of the magical thinking. I’d also love an alternative to taxes rises and austerity, as soon as someone shows me one I’ll be delighted. Why doesn’t anyone explain the alternative?

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/04/27/are-irish-workers-undertaxed/
“Ireland was already one of the lowest taxers in the OECD in 2000 and yet it cut its taxes by twice as much as any other economy.”
Bit out of date but still relevant.

Gary. I am not telling lies. I have never told a lie on this site EVER! The money they hoped (past tense) from this tax? Where did they get it before. It’s like suddenly bringing out an education tax for teachers’ pay… They can’t keep moving the goalposts. We will not be moved. We are a rock to them. We have had enough.

@Réada. What do you mean where were we getting the money before? We’ve been borrowing it since the recession began, large amounts of money. We’re paying on the never never. I’m confused because you said to me only a few short hours ago that you don’t want us to borrow any money. Now you’re saying “They can’t keep moving the goalposts. We will not be moved.” But the government has no choice but to collect more taxes to cut back our borrowing, the very thing you said you wanted.

No offence taken Gary! I’m sure you will have recognized that my little tale of the pothole was delivered in a rather tongue in cheek fashion as a parable for the waste, corruption, mismanagement, and disregard for the public purse that typifies every branch of the public service. I personally have no problem scrimping and saving to make my donation of 100euro to the proper and efficient upkeep of the country through the public service. But having scrimped and saved, as others like me, to find this money I would expect that my contribution be treated with the same diligence by those in charge of it as I put into providing it. Until that happens my 100 euro will go towards a better purpose like helping my daughter buy school books for my grandchildren next Fall.

John your argument is ‘I’m not happy my tax is spent efficiently’. Well I agree the tax could be spent more efficiently, I think most people would. But as I said there isn’t 14 billion in efficiencies, not a hope. The real problem then is who decides when the tax money is spent efficiently enough, by what measure. Because so far when I’ve challenged people about why they won’t pay this charge they just move the goalposts.
Leave efficiency aside your argument is just a generic one for not paying any tax. Oh they bought 5 tanks for the Army and I hate war so I’m not paying my tax.

Gary, I won’t move the goalposts, in fact I’ll plant ‘em very firmly in the ground for you with one word – ‘anger’. People don’t want to pay the household charge because they are angry. Angry at the behaviour of this and previous governments that have squandered the future of this country. I accept your point about the 14 billion, I accept your point about our suicidal national debt -only a fool wouldn’t. You’re argument is indeed pragmatic and quiet reasonable in some respects and you’re right that it needs to be addressed, but not by a chaotically hashed together tax that makes the government appear almost bigger idiots than the shower that got us into this mess.
You accuse Reada of lying, and I wont get into all of that, but anger has it’s place too especially when it is born out of genuine despair at what is going on. This government has had a year in power now to show us that things are changing, that they were good to their promises and honest to the electorate. People don’t believe that they have Gary, they see more of the same and are protesting in a dignified and mature way, because the believe they are being fooled, not like the Greeks or not like Occupy which have failed.
Pragmatism is all very well Gary but it will be trumped by anger every time, it’s all in the history books.

People like you shouldn’t own dogs if that’s what you would use them for.

@Keith…go troll somewhere else we are all stocked up on indignance here. Just for the record my dogs are very well treated and incidentally none of your business.

Grant G
I have my beloved dogs too and I will set them after any one who comes to my door …threatening my safety or security. ….

That’s what dogs are for. To protect your home and family from intruders. I would class hogans threats and bully tactics along with the heavys sent around to doors demanding cash payment a definite form of threatening behaviour that warrants my dogs protection.

Well you’ve obviously never been the victim of an actual crime then. Dogs are not for the purpose of attacking people. If that’s why you have them then you don’t deserve them. And it certainly is my business if you are raising dogs that attack people who come to your door. For all I know you could be my neighbour.

@Keith – No, you’re definitely not his neighbour. If you were then his dogs would have attacked already ;-)

Where did you read that I said my dogs are for attacking people?! Don’t twist and bend an argument to suit yourself (just like the present govt) dogs are for protection and mine in particular a deterrent to any unwanted/unwelcomed intruder!!
I get the impression you have handbag type dogs for fashion accessories! One last thing in glad your not my neighbour, god if I ever ran out of milk I’d probably have to beg you for a bit.

So many Internet strongmen.

Keith you some interesting arguments…mostly rubbish but interesting nonetheless. You have also made some sweeping assumptions about people on here which have no basis in truth. Try reading what people post instead of “if my granny had bollocks she’d be my grandad” routine and maybe…just maybe you might learn something. This not about money its about principle.

@ Grant. What assumptions? People have stated clearly that they will get their dogs to attack council workers who call to the door.

Keith
You are nobodys neighbour , You live in a fantacy world under a bridge .

Keith
I find your comment about strong men rather sexist , there are a lot
of strong women out here in the real world too. Phil Hogan I am a
strong proud Irish woman,.

Keith, I don’t think you’ll have to worry about any unwanted visitors anyway because Hogan’s henchmen won’t be calling to residents who live in ivory towers

Speaking of these council workers who Hogan will have calling on us to remind us to pay , what do their union reps say about this ? This is not part of their normal duties ! No doubt Hogan will tell us next that he has workers volunteering to do this work :) Seriously tho where are the unions in all of this ?

If personal insults are the limit of your argumentative ability then your movement won’t be going very far.

@Keith that’s a bit rich accusing other people of insults when you use phrases such as “people like you” and in general your tone towards others is at best derisory. The simple fact is that if you look at all of the people on here who are genuinely concerned that the government are trying to: A) create a national database for increased taxation, B) Impose a charge which has no constitutional basis, which is why they have to get us to register and cannot directly enforce a statutory instrument and C) Push people further towards the breadline to look great in the eyes of the French and the Germans then surely you can understand why people are so pissed off and have roundly disagreed with every point or accusation you have made.

There’s already a database of house owners. The land registry and electoral register cover that. Forcing people to register is simply a cheaper way to centralise this data.

I don’t know where you get the idea that people need to register to have the law apply to them. That’s ridiculous.

Again Keith you are showing your lack of knowledge. The land registry, the CSO or whatever other data source you care to mention are woefully inadequate and incomplete due to the incompetence of previous government strategies. This is the main target of the government with this along with the 2011 census to understand better who lives where, does what, earns how much and what type of household they live in all for the simple reason of being able to tax people more, in a speedier fashion. Also if you read the constitution of this country you will find out that a statutory instrument has to be opted into by the electorate of the country. Hence the registering online option and not a bill dropping through your letterbox.

See you there Brian :)

That’s a very good point Aine. We have paid our dues. Some on here think that we haven’t contributed to the ‘recovery’ at all, with the usual it’s only €100 rhetoric. Well I have taken pay cuts, pay more in tax, USC and more. But what have the bankers contributed?! Nothing in fact we have to pay them for their lost bets with unsecured loans and promisery notes, while the corrupt politicians wallow in their lavish pensions and generous backhanders and unvouched expenses. This mass protest is the voice of everything people can’t abide by anymore and long may it prosper! 2016 will be a good year!

Thats basically its, they cut the local Services budget to pay the bankers, now to keep the money in Local Services for on going repairs, projects, etc. they need to get the money back from us. So this tax is just to make up the shortfall from already cutting the money to local services in the previous budgets to pay the Bankers

Chris
Sorry, this €100 that they want from us is not to make up any short fall …..It is going straight into central government and from there straight to the Troika . This 100 €is not to benefit us in any way .
Don’t Register , Don’t Pay ! .

cant pay wont pay wont regester, everyone stand together and we will win

We will win? What pointless bravado. In the unlikely event that the charge is repealed it will only be made up for in the budget.

Keith
your attitude and attitudes like yours is what has the country where it is ….
Ah shur what’s the point , if they don’t get us one way they will get us another ……
Straighten up man , stand tall and be proud that you are Irish,…….
Otherwise go back into your box where the government say you belong and pay this austerity tax, bail out dead banks , allow your elderly relatives lie on hospital trolleys , without privacy or comfort , allow children with special needs to go with out proper help while their parents struggle to pay this €100 austerity tax.

It is not pointless bravado ,that has us campaigning against this . It is FEAR . Fear of not being abloe to afford it into the future. Fear of every thing …. I am so tired of paying out and paying out , and getting nothing in return. Nothing

Keith you miss the point by a mile. People are not fools, of course the idiots in government will see the error of their ways and introduce some sneakier way to gather this money, but the point is they will have LOST. They will have been beaten down by the will of the people in a public expression of discontent where the lies and false promises of the last general election have been seen through. This government capitalized on the anger and dispare of the public to peddle a false hope that things would be put right, that the corruption, cronyism and waste of public funds would stop. They usurped power by false pretence and continued the rape of the country in the interest of their corporate supporters rather than the the people that they fooled into voting for them. Denis ‘birthday cake’ O’Brien who scoffed and sneered at the institutions of this state being lauded by the leader of our government says it all.

They would have lost? This isn’t a game. It’s a country in massive debt. And we voted in every politician who led us to this point. To be honest, I’d rather pay a hundred euro a year than have a PAYE increase in the next budget. I can’t imagine any employed person who wouldn’t.

Your right this time Keith – this is not a game. Nor was the last general election when lies and false promises were peddled from door to door to con the public.

@ Keiyh it is 100 euro THIS YEAR next year how much do you think you will be paying along with water charges and the increase that Government have promised

You muppets will be spending far more than €100 going back and forward to your meetings and marches! Also your posters and leaflets (wonder where you got the ink cartridges). !

What are you insinuating mcbab?

ryan,
don’t waste ur time.

as the saying goes
“never argue with a fool,
the will bring you down to their level,
and beat you with experience”

3 thousand is RTE’s number ……. Again the Censure is in place or is it RTE CANNOT count .anyone that made it to the protest on Saturday knows that there was at least 7-8 thousand minimum there

Kevin there were also thousands protesting in towns up and down the country at the same time . Notice that want reported . The government dont that getting out !

Is Ireland turning into a communist country where news is censored?

I hate to break it to you Bernadette but unless you think the National Stadium is like the tardis there wasn’t 7 thousand there.

jasus gary,
ur clearly soooooooooooooo in favour of this
that you’re willing to dispute any and everything
that No campaigners are saying,
even down to how many people were in the stadium.

yeah, i know ur argument will be
‘i keep asking and no-one will answer,
all i hear is lies’

but gary, seriously,
i don’t believe anymore than u are simply
just a ‘concerned’ citizen.
the lady doth protest too much!!! :-)

Kevin, I think it’s a little fallacious to assume that only communist countries censor their news, censorship is rampant and makes far more sense for capitalist countries to censor their news.

@Joseph. I’ll tell you what when any of you start proving any of the stuff you say then I promise I won’t dispute it. Some of you don’t seem to realise there is a difference between your opinion and provable fact.

You raise a great point Richard, how much is this campaign of intimidation costing??

Im looking forward to going to court so I can have my case heard in Irish. If every one wants their case heard in Irish it will be more chaos for Phil Hogan and his bullies,Lets show the world we are not taking it anymore,Up the Republic.

They do not care how much it will cost them as long as we are forced to pay up . This is bullying at the highest level. I will not accept this pressure and I will not pay it . The wealthy are afraid of losing what they feel they are entitled to and that is privelege . My god they hate sharing private health care …… etc

What council workers ? Clerical , road workers, park attendants etc ? Using their own cars ? Insurance for that ? Expect the majority of clerical staff are women. Just more bullying and scare tactics. Bring it on !

Democracy is now spelt D I C T A T O R S H I P with a touch of facism ……

Who forced him?

Well according to their website “A modern 2,000 seat venue conveniently located in the heart of Dublin City.” So sure there could have been 3 thousand in there… maybe. I don’t know how many protested nor do you, but then I wasn’t the one plucking figures out of the air.

Flush it down yer bog.

Yea do not pay stand together

That made me laugh so much I fell of me chair ;-), flush it down your bog ;-)