Ill be right beside you protesting, strength in numbers

Eat it up jack it’s called democracy e.g. majority rules OK

What majority are you talking about? I don’t remember a democratic vote on pay cuts. I seem to remember it being forced on the people and a flagrant breach of the existing agreement. What good is an agreement that one side only can change to suit?

@ Jack,

Howlin will throw the union leaders a bone and as usual they’ll fold and then tell you it’s the best deal they could get and talk about the alternative bogeyman ( legislation) and the majority of you will vote for it and ICTU IBEC and the rest of the wonderful social partners will hail it as a tremendous sucess. Industrial Peace in our time and all that Sh1t and life goes on

@ Jack

QED

None of those so called ‘unions’ represent me. They are political puppets too, that’s why they remained while all the decent rep bodies refused to enter or walk out. Don’t think for a second that that is that, it’s only the beginning. Keep watching, this government may fall on their sword yet.

*walked

@ Jack,

Won’t happen. it’s warmer inside the tent and same as the last time you may be dragged kicking and screaming into it but in it you will be. ICTU have too much to lose. The pariah called social partnership gave them status that they never had before and they will use every piece of influence to maintain it

Sorry John, but I disagree. Those unions don’t represent me. The 24/7 Alliance haven’t agreed to any of this and revolt is on the way. ICTU have nothing to do with me. The media and spin doctors are calling it agreement, there is no agreement. You can’t have agreement when all concerned are represented. That’s a dictatorship, not democratic. The 24/7 Alliance represent the Prisoner Officers, INMO, IFESA, GRA, AGSI, IPO and none of these bodies were present to agree. That’s an awful lot of Fire Personnel, Gardai, Nurses and Prison Officers that will reject these cuts. It’s easy for Unions representing ‘office hours’ workers to accept a cut in allowances they don’t get anyway.

when was the vote dick head

@mary
Try and keep up

@jack
Don’t want to burst your bubble but despite the fiery words from your reps. They”ll sell you out again

No, unlike the unions our Reps don’t get paid €100k + and any changes to pay effect them the same as the rest. That’s the difference. They aren’t union reps that can be bought off. I don’t know what you mean by ‘again’ since I don’t remember when the last ‘sell out’ was. Do you even know who my rep body is? I guess not.

Unfortunately the 8-5′s are a majority. Anything that is decided will likely not effect them greatly, overtime, premium payments and longer working weeks being case in point.

Enda, you managed to get information on the deal before it is announced?
Well done, the rest of us will wait and see what the deal actually is before commenting on it.

What a rediculous notion ,talks;but if u don’t agree we’ll legislate .thats dictation at its best.if they want to save a billion , cut the quangos ,advisors advising advisors,created by governments for votes; .one of the first suggestions by “an bord snip” and only one gone so far .;and leave front line staff enough money to get to work .

Eh, members will be ballot’ed. Or do you think they’ll all be paid off…

Ehh no but the unions will….. Duhhhh

Mike, The employees voted the union leaders in, we all voted the government in.
You made the decision so now you have to live with it.

Paul,the union leaders are in the pockets of the government.
If a person is a trure representitive of workers then they must be neutral.

Yeah who cares if patients aren’t seen or our children not taught at school…

In a situation where large groups of workers are having their heads ducked into a toilet, what would you suggest the other options are David?

And please, give some GENUINE options not the illusion of choice…..

Workers who still have guaranteed jobs and who have higher pay than their counterparts in the private sector.

Either we find the €1bn ourselves or the troika will make them conditions for our loans.

At least with these talks they’re not aimed at the patient or the pupil. If the agreement is not implemented, the savings will have to be found through ward closures, increases in the pupil teacher ratio and other measures that would hit the real “most vulnerable” in our society.

What is a “counterpart” in the private sector? I’d love to hear someone define this – I’ve heard many efforts but none that comprehensively acknowledges the differing factors.

I doubt that you would find many in the public sector who would disagree about the higher paid public service jobs which need addressing – but that’s not the question.

Can you be more specific on where we should be looking for the €1bn from because your answer was predictably vague.

Spoken like a true Young Fine Gael member. Your Twitter account shows your political affiliation along with your quips about homosexuality.

Young Fine Gael party member, look at his Twitter account

Son, you are a Trinity College Student so I think it’s a while yet before you even have to concern yourself with paying bills and feeding a family. Come back when you’ve spent some time in the real world with mortgage arrears and unpaid utility bills.

David you are disillusioned…… What should have happened to this country , in my view is this… IMF come in and cut the head of that monster that is sucking up all the cash in the public arena , the HSE…. this behemoth is now in a state of incontrovertible frenzy…. I was recently told that they have the equivalent of 150 mangers with a generals pay grade , that of 90% of the PAYE monies goes into this monster… Now these figures can be argued as I got them off a guy who is very much like me , ordinary hard worker doing research, but the crux of this is, we are top heavy with management in the public services and it’s needs to be dealt with… Feck sake our country as less of a population than some big cities across the pond and they have nothing of the personnel hired in their public arena.

Yes David. That 4/5 year waiting list for a child to see an ENT at Waterford regional will simply vanish into thin air now that your associates in government are near a deal on public sector pay. That waiting list exists as a consequence of the gross mismanagement of resources by the HSE.

Why don’t you wake up David, our children are already on a governmental pay no mind list, a deal on Croke park will not change that. The regurgitation of political soundbites from an individual with a FG catchphrase chip embedded in his brain leaves little to be desired.

It worries me that someone at some stage gave you a microphone at a venue outside your lounge room and in doing so permitted you to contaminate public space with bullshit political rhetoric.

Need to find 1bn EUR,
Ok ,lets see
Cut overseas aid down to €100m from €600m
Cut number of td,s by 66
Implement a third income tax rate 48% on earnings over €100k pa
A complete ban on all expenses with the political and public sector system , politicans claim about 7m a year , while county councils are claiming in excess of 500k pa ………wexford county councillors claims a grand total of 598k in 2012.
Levy on bankers bonus,s , as well as retired politicans pensions that are over 50k pa ,
And how,s about the quango,s why to FAS still get 1bn a year
Why does the head of the FAI earn twice the salary of his Spanish counterpart ( compare the successor Spanish football domestic and I,ntl to that of Irish football
Abolish the seanad
impose strict tax laws on international companies profiting yet not paying tax in Ireland
( that guy that owns the Beats headphones , stated he was moving business to Ireland to available of all the tax breaks ) .
There’s a few ideas off the top of my head that will save us in excess.of 1bn EUR

@david can you tell me how much a Garda earns in the private sector?
Can you tell me how much a teacher is paid in the private sector
Nurses earn more in the private sector
Doctors earn more in the private sector
When you ring for the fire brigade you obviously get the private fire brigade.
You would like Ireland’s dangerous criminals locked up in private prisons. Frontline workers are a public service not a profit generating organization, but that is obviously the world where you want to live in when you ring 999, 112 and the first question your asked is not what service you require but your credit card number

“quips about homosexuality”…..

I’m completely in favour of gay marriage and adoption.

C’mon guys. Play the ball, not the man.

Your undisguised adulation for a political party that got stinking drunk on subsidized alcohol and exchanged €100 billion in unsecured debt for significantly more in sovereign debt renders you a ball in play.

Deals? What in hells creation would this government know about making a deal. They kiss European arse at one table and save the legislative approach as a hammer to use against the locals at another. I would have thought a patriot would have the negotiating strategy the other way around. Not so with our elected reps in government and not with individuals like you advocating for such policy directives on their behalf

You consistently advocate for this crowd and to my mind that makes you the ball my friend.

Il guarantee you the troika would probably do a fairer job than the bunch of misfits in government. If happily hear the troikas proposal fg wouldn’t tho because it would no doubt mean less of a hit on the heroes on the front line and more on CEOs and politicians. David I hope I never see your name on a ballot box because you will be remembered after all your anti Garda anti front line talk.

Did you change your profile picture David and link to your Facebook account instead of Twitter now? Do you not want people to know that you are a Young Fine Gael party member or see your homophobic tweets?

Here’s a direct copy from Twitter which people can see @davehiggz

‘If Kerry formed its own independent breakaway state you could attend a Gay Marriage and then drink drive home from it :p’

And

‘To visualise recent motions from Kerry County Council imagine lots of people drunk driving home from a gay marriage’

So, since you place both in the same vain, do you also support drink driving then? That would be in keeping with the wife of your minister for justice who also seems to see nothing wrong with it. The courts took a different view though when they convicted her for it. David, homosexuality and drink driving are not ‘jokes’ so stop embarrassing yourself and your already embarrassing political party who should remove you for your comments.

Jack why not report him via emai to Fine Gael head office surely those homophobic remarks are against some code of conduct. He’s a hateful young man alright

Totally agree Irish Mule…..
Shows the degree of intelligence in politics if he is on her slating the public sector…….bad move David

C’mon guys. Play the ball, not the man.

Then address the question. You can’t tell others that they’re “playing the man” and not make an effort.

I’ve asked you a genuine question David. It’s not uncommon for you to respond with something that seems little more than the party line so can you give us an answer?

I have screen captured his original Twitter post before he blocks or deletes it and will pass onto my local TD (who is a Fine Gael party member). In one fell swoop this young man manages to insult Kerry, gay couples and the families of those killed or injured by drink driving. Shame on you David Higgins.

Well done jack fair play to you, hopefully you have just stopped another potential politician from going on the payroll. You may have saved the country a nightmare

Remaining unions represent app 220,000 of PS…. Vast majority. Those that walked can talk to the legislature…

Oreilly – whatever proposal they come out with still has to be passed by members. It may be difficult to do that.

Talks are not only for the amount you say, its for ALL the public sector. Any agreement has to be made with consent of ALL unions/rep bodies etc. There’s an all out war coming, and we won’t be beaten

Agreed. Though watching the legislation being drafted for leavers might temper their response…

@jft- looks like you have already been beaten.

If your a public servant and not in a union, unions have no right to negotiate or renegotiate your terms and conditions management has to negotiate with you on an individual basis. Dublin firefighter took Dublin city council to the labour court over same as they refused with siptu and impacts blessing to recognize the union IFFESA

Agreed

True

Beaten up yes, but not beaten! Drafting legislation is one thing, enacting it another. The people who it will effect will be pushed beyond the brink and WON’T be able to provide for their families, do you think these people will just bend over and take it???? Ill fight tooth and nail to keep the average wage I’m on now, ill fight to provide for my family and there’s many many many like me. This is just the start….

Incorrect.

Can I just ask why are you against a 39 hour week. Also why are you against higher paid public servants getting a pay cut?

The headline is misleading. There is no deal close to completion, a proposal might be but not a deal.

And that proposal will be ridiculous. It won’t make it past the union membership vote.

The govt know this, and then the govt will point at the unions claiming they are the problem.

@Conor – come off it, don’t act like these are the only 2 elements being discussed around this deal. jft said nothing about being against either.

It will strenghten resolve.

Much ado about nothing. I’ve been hearing all this fighting talk for years, and I’m still waiting on the battle to start. Bring it on.

I see this 39 hour week being banded about a lot, id give anything just to be working 39 hours a week!!! Higher earners from the outset were not hit enough the last cpa, this has to change. There hitting the hardest workers in the ps, and thats not right

Conor, as someone who routinely works 60hr weeks my problem with working 39hrs is that I’m already doing them, along with the majority of my colleagues, and we do so not knowing whether or not we will get paid for the hours that we work – and that’s before this “deal” goes through.
But yes, here’s my arm and my leg. Perhaps you could sell it to an abattoir as horse meat or beef.

Yes unfortunately he lost that case, he was told he wasn’t being denied union membership as there where two unions available to him.

Half the members of three unions vote for the deal its passed

What’s incorrect about his statement?

It would make you laugh, if it wasn’t so serious. All. The union members come on here and blame their leaders for selling them out. Don’t they realise that the leaders are actually employed by them? They alone have the power to kick the leaders out. SIPTU in particular are nothing short of a gang, but the members seem to think that there’s nothing they can do to change this.

Agreed but the system within SIPTU and IMPACT makes this almost impossible to happen cancel your subs will have an immediate effect

Fine Gael and labour want us to bend over and stick our head in the sands
while they pick our pockets,
And then thank them for that privilege !

I’m sure the majority of last year’s graduates who are already suffering the BS from last time around which has badly affected new entrants (if they can get work) will be delighted too……

Gerry, in a democratic society, union members instruct their leaders. You make it seem like union leaders instruct their members.

It will go to ballot. Was clear a deal was close when the other unions walked out.

Rodrigo- Politicians instruct their citizens, If you don’t think so then wake up!

Way to miss the sarcasm of Gerry’s comment there lads!

Gerry. The employees voted the union leaders in, we all voted the government in.
You made the decision so now you have to live with it.

Siptu members do not get to vote in their leader!

By incompetents, do you mean the politicians, the union leaders or the overpaid upper management in the public sector?

No prob.a deal on selling out the nation done overnight

That’s wrong.

Why is it wrong ? If the cuts to premium pay for 24 hour staff happen they will be cut over 10per cent . And high earners will be cut 5 per cent off their salary . So again explain how it’s wrong ?

That doesn’t reflect Labour’s voting base. Labour does very well among lower income public sector workers. If anything their incentive is to see a minimum amount of cuts in their direction. The cut off point of €60k being a prime example.

I didn’t know ladybird did those kind of books.

The question that should be asked is Why is this deal being “renegotiated” all of a sudden by the larger Unions when the current deal still has 16 months to run? It would appear to me that Frontline workers are being hung out to dry to protect the higher paid Civil Servants….

Jimmy, I believe that the timing also involves the teaching year.
If the frontline services were to strike now they would still retain much public support. When teachers strike alongside then it directly effects a lot more people – when it affects them at this time of year it’s particularly upsetting to those in exam years.
At least, I think that’s part of it.

I reckon you could be on to something there Tomy. What is also equally baffling, is that a deal of this magnitude can be completed over a single weekend….unless it was just a case of rubber stamping….it just doesnt smell right!

If half plus 1 of supti impact and into members vote in favour of whatever deal the three unions have enough vote at ICTU to pass the deal . Then the government can say the unions voted for it. All votes ain’t equal