Good luck with that argument! I must admit it’s the most inventive I’ve heard in the long, sorry tradition of tax evasion in this country.

18,000 very enthusiastic fluffy sheep, another 1.58 million more will follow. A peculiar sort of people, quite unique in the world. A French fellow recently asked me was there something in the Irish tap water…I still haven’t replied.

Yes. Its he same posion used my the Nazis to subdue prisoners; the main ingredient of prozac and the one that is spelled out on your toothpaste tube as being dangerous and not to let your kids swallow. Fluoride.

20 years ? You’re one of the lucky ones, most are 30-40.

@Ed Ah thank you, I now have the reply for my French friend. I have never voted yes in any European referendum and I do not trust or believe one word from a politicians mouth. I do not do what I am told to do just because someone threatens me, uses big words or wears a tailored suit. Funnily enough, I also don’t drink tap water )

Ed. Is it true that we have the highest dose of fluoride in Europe?

Most countries in Europe don’t do it… and its being gradually reduced in some US states. The US EPA officially recommends that infant formula is not made with flouridated water. I can’t understand how people thinking swallowing fluoride is going to do anything for your teeth especially if you already rubbing it on with a toothbrush. Read your toothpaste tube. It specifically states not to swallow it so why drink it. Crazy..

http://www.fluoridefreewater.ie/levels.php

I bet there is no Fluoride in Greek water

There is a legal argument to not paying water charges due to flouride. Integrity of the water. Have that on legal advice :-)

@Reada… Unfortunately most people think I am crazy when I tell them there is poison in their water. It opens up a can of worms that most sane people just can’t even start entertaining :) Tell enough people a lie it soon becomes accepted truth… as in so many things….

Ed. I’ve said it before, at first the truth is resisted, then ridiculed, then accepted as fact. There’s a lot more of us at the fact side now than there were. That’s the only consolation I have ATM. Keep saying it!!!

“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.” This simple quote resonates so loudly today and seems to timelessly follow humanity through the centuries…The EU, The treaties, The Lisbon Treaty, politicians, bankers, the ‘elite’, the lies, the propaganda, how they ridiculed those of us because our eyes were open. I sense that we are very close to the stage of violent opposition throughout Europe, which although very sad was always inevitable, yet so easily avoidable. The truth will always rise beyond ignorance, indifference, oppression and lies…always )

Wish I was a bit more optimistic like you but the majority of people in Ireland think the Financial crisis was their fault because we got greedy … If people can’t see what’s going on in front of their noses now then they are nowhere near ready for the big picture

We typed at the same time Paul. You more eloquently than I. ;-(

Here’s another one. Truth can walk around naked. Only the lie needs to be dressed. That’s the prose over for now folks. Gotta get the decorations down.

The people I have spoken to who are paying are just simply frightened at what will happen to them if they don’t. Jail being their main fear. But then governments rule by fear. Or maybe they haven’t heard of the ” http://www.nohouseholdtax.org ” wesite.

There’s nothing like a wild generalisation to justify tax evasion, hey Ann? I’ve registered and am paying and in common with everybody I know who is also paying it’s got nothing to do with fear of gaol. People have an expectation in Ireland for European levels of public service, but are often unwilling to pay European levels of tax. That doesn’t add up. A local property tax will support local democracy and local services. It ensures a reliable income stream for local government. That’s why I’ve registered for the Household Charge.

I’m curious Declan do you really believe that this charge will fund local services.Will you enlighten me as i’m a rural dweller what services will i be able to avail of.At the moment no street lighting no paths no park terrible roads(i pay car tax) no public parks.

@Desmond

You really haven’t a clue about what is happening in Ireland at the moment.

Sorry Desmond refered to you as Declan

This is rates by another name. A local means of raising funds to operate local services that the FF party abolished in the 70′s to buy an election. I have no prob paying it as long as it “does” go to fund local services & that everyone – no exceptions – contributes something. I wish I didn’t have to pay it but we have to now. Our hands are tied thanks to the dreadful mismanagement of our country. The IMF are ruling the roost thanks to Bertie & Co.

Good idea but If they had a poll on here ladour and FG cronies would probable just create multiple accounts to make it look like more people already paid it or are going to pay it. They are already paying people with our tax money to thumbs down comments against them.

Yes voice. They have given out free iPhones to the FG paid up party members. They’ve all registered and paid. You might recognise the names. Or is that just a rumour???

So what is wrong with standing up instead of acting like sheep as we have done for the last several years.This government is trying to rule by fear like the previous lot did sadly it seems to have worked with 18,000 if the figures are true.

David if you truly believe that, then why tacitly support this behaviour by paying more taxes? Say NO, I don’t like your behaviour and until it changes, I’m not paying any more ! Stand up for yourself and your opinion!!

David, you are between a rock and a hard place, but don’t  pay any form of property tax if it is on the house that you live in. The government have no right to tax the house you live in, what right have they to put a claim on it, Bankers that had a hand in the countries downfall walk away safe in the knowledge that there can be no claim on their property. What next, if they decide to put a claim on one of your kidneys, it could be sold to raise vital funds for the state, will you give it to them, after all they might threaten to take both from anyone who fails to comply. Do we not have Democracy in this country, if so then a whip system is not democratic, and therefor a claim on your house that you live in is a communist ideal. The country needs a property tax, but it should be totally confined to property that is landlord owned , property that is used to create wealth, be it residential,commercial, or land, rented out or leased to others to pay the mortgage for the landlord. I mean a proper tax of €2000 a year on a house or apartment and €100 a year per acre on rented land. Stop paying rent allowance and encourage everyone to have their own home, look at the amount of money would be saved to social welfare. Hogan has the gall to even expect people to pay a property tax on their home even if they have to leave Eire go abroad with their family to try and find work to pay off their mortgage and negative equity on the house they left behind.

@kevin. Do you realise the value of rented farmland. You are proposing a tax of 100 euro per acre on it. Well that is about the value of it. It’s like having a tax of 10,000 a year on a 3 bed semi. Sounds like self interest out of you.

No need to panic a while. The local authorities won’t be up to speed after Xmas till February at least. I’d imagine there will be alot of ads on the press and tv probably costing as much as the charge will bring in. True though, not everyone has access to the internet and credit cards.

Hi Noel, it is not lawful to send an invoice without a Contract first being in place and could be challenged on the grounds of extortion. This is why they will never send you an invoice. Also, an invoice should be itemised. Since we are not getting anything extra, an itemised invoice would be impossible. If you refuse to register you are effectively refusing to contract.
In order for a lawful contract to exist, and money change hands, there needs to be a few things in place first: Consensus ad idem, Equal Consideration, Negotiation of Terms, Full Disclosure and Wet Ink Signatures are but to name a few. None of which are present with regards to this extortion of the public.

They cant send out invoices to everyone as there is no data base of property/householders …thus by registering and paying you are helping them on their way..!!

That’s 30 percent extra that I don’t want to give. It’s going to be replaced by a property tax which will hopefully be a fairer system

How can the property tax be fairer? It can go down it can only go up. Why are councils exempt from property charge? Take a look at the uk, everybody pays council tax unless they are exempt because of low income. No exemptions on low income grounds here as far as I am aware.. What services are we getting for our 100 euros. In the country no public transport, little street lighting (which I don’t want), a waste bin emptied every three weeks which costs roughly 20 euros per bin ( charge includes for compost able waste brown bin but who needs that in the country?). Only ever seen 2 brown bins put out in the area where I live, about one percent. Nows that’s value for someone other than me.

Surely bringing Ireland into line with other countries, as claimed means removing vrt.

It seems to me that reading all comments on the journal that most antagonism is against the banks. If so why not open foreign accounts and keep any savings however small abroad. That would give the banks a message. Foreign currency accounts are available to avoid conversion charges. Tax exemption can be claimed from the uk under the double taxation agreement that exists and Irish tax is payable. The only looser is the bank! And that’s a legitimate protest.

David, that 30 euro will pale into insignificance once they have you on board. The “its unfair now but will get fairer” line they are peddling doesn’t wash with me.

That’s the thing that bugs the sh*t out of me, Robert F. These “exemptions”. Everyone must make a contribution. “Everyone”. As a taxpayer since I was 17 yrs old, I’ve paid for everything & that never bothered me. Regarding the property charge ( i.e. rates ), I have no prob paying for it as long as the money goes to where it is meant to go & “everyone” makes a contribution.

Declan me likewise since I was 15. The household charge surely is a misnomer as it is paid for by the owner of the property and therefore a house owner charge with big Authorities being exempt. If it was a household charge it would be payable by the home occupier. Maybe house owners are supposed to obtain the money from the occupier, bit like vat charges?

U make a valid point there. As I said, I have no problems paying as long as “everyone” contributes. It’s unfair to those who are compelled to pay & it creates division in society.

just curious dec, i wont be paying this regardless of jail dah dah dah. i know there is a smallish number who feel the same as i do.
so if we wont pay, does that mean u wont pay until we pay?

Hello, Joe ! Head’s a bit sore today after last night & had no intention of posting on the journo today. Here I y’am, tho’ !! I will pay regardless of who does or doesn’t pay. I refer u to my previous postings as to why I’ll pay. I wish I didn’t have to, but – there we are. My gripe is with the “exemptions”. That creates division & is very biased towards those in society who always have to pay & have no probs in paying. This particular charge is now in place & it is up to the individual to pay & that rests with his/her conscience. Like any other bill we have to pay, there are consequences to be faced if you don’t pay. I will be paying & will be paying with a grievance. The only bill I detest paying is a licence fee to RTE. Paid that Thursday & that killed me to do it. You have a nice day & I hope you enjoy the new move “The Iron Lady” !!!

By the way, Joe – I live in a nice wee apartment complex & I also pay a E1,400 a year maintenance fee. Multiply that by 17 years. On top of that, I’ll have to budget for this property tax. No exemption for me. Do I gripe about it ? No. It’s a reality I have to get on with. Sláinte.

thats fair enuf dec
do u really believe it’ll go for where its meant to go?
its a reality that u r choosing.
well, dont want to go too hard on ya in ur vulnerable state,
but for someone who claims not too gripe too much,,,well, perhaps look again at ur posts.

anyway, hope the hangover eases up!

2 Anadins dropped into a glass of water now ! I am hoping money will go to where it is meant to go. Yes – I do have gripes & grievances with it. No doubt about that. Anyway – I’ll get on with me sufferin’ here. Cheers !!!

At least that way it will do the local community some good, we have being more than generous to Bondholders, charity should start at home now

Thanks for the laugh p wurple
Ill be sure to wrack myself with guilt for not paying it.

Thats good, you stick by your principles and others will stick by theirs.Just one thing this is a charge not a tax.So not directed to you P but can others who refer to people as Tax Evaders who refuse to pay this charge learn the difference and stop the name calling.

More fool you P Wurple

This ladies and gentleman is the reason your government and the EU will continue to screw you. Sheep like Wurple are a politicians dream. Shame on you Wurple

You did in your backside p Wurple. You just like to cause a stir. We need people like you tho too. Just to have something to rebel against. Thanks.

Nice stream of abuse… As expected from this rotten-to-the-core brown envelope culture. Everyone is a fraudster, and proud of it to boot. Wanting it all, never wanting to pay for it. So typical Irish. No wonder the politicians are a bunch of crooks.

Why dont ye go off and comment on how those poor child benefit fraudsters are being hard done by?

Or better yet, go picket the council for not having enough money to provide the services you demand.

The rest of us hard working tax payers will pick up the slack, as per bloody usual.

For the third time in 24 hours I have to say the same thing. I am one of those people who consider it a privilege to pay tax. I love paying tax. I love the fact that it pays our teachers, nurses, Gardaí, unemployed, those on social welfare and anyone in need.

What I don’t appreciate is paying it fraudulently into a big black bank hole! Who’s the fraudsters again????

Thanks P!
Knew i could count on you to pick up the tab.
While ur at it, would you mind awfully taking up the slack
for the rest of us re. the banks?

Now, do me a favour, take urself down off ur self-created cross.

Oh, and don’t think u can insinuate that good and decent people
who refuse to pay this are tax evaders
and not expect to get some harsh comments back.
if u cant take it dont give.

Finally, ITS NOT A TAX!!!!
its a CHARGE!!!

I pay a boatload of tax towards the banks joe. USC. Universal social fecking CHARGE.

Or do you not pay that either?

still on the cross, ‘eh?
News Flash…..
so do most people, meself included.

Call it a cross, I call it the moral high ground.

So you pay other CHARGES, but not this one. Good logic. Call me whatever you like, but anyone who chucks abuse at me for paying something I am legally liable for is nothing more than a petty crook in my eyes.

Enjoy your fine! :)

oh wurple, u do make me giggle..
moral high ground, thats a hoot!

fine? dont be silly, i wont be paying it
sure, why would i not pay the CHARGE
and then pay the fine? :-)

Oh I do so love to see these little journal romances develop… They do say opposites attract

u noticed it too reada?
i’m feelin the vibe too,
who knows… if she plays her cards right…

……..bit a life left in de old dog yet……….

I’ve already been asked to be bridesmaid to easygoing for her forthcoming wedding to ted power, altho I think there was a little sarcasm in that invitation. But seeing as you and I see things along a similar vein Joseph I do hope you’ll speak in my favour with p Wurple. She and I have not always seen eye to eye…

ah now, a course ill slip a…. mmm…. good word in for ya.

Now, i may have to exercise a few demons outta her first…

Then,
Let the healing begin!!

Sorry Joseph. Jay has just made a good point. Was getting a bit bored there. Saturday night tv not what it used to be since x factor over. Can’t wait for dancing on ice. Ah well…

Very few are paying or the 1,500,000 household only 15,000 or1%. We are 1 week into a 12 week period even if there is a 2 fold increase in payers for the remaining 11 weeks in total only 345k of the 1,500,000 will of paid. Also of the 15,000 so far I wonder if many of them are Nama or bank properties.

Hate to brust your bubble but it is your house Ulster Bank can seek to enforce there charge over the property if you don’t pay your mortgage.But even then it is your house till a judge says otherwise.

anything else you want to add to that

So what your saying is that if the government had any sense they would get someone to register all the properties that aren’t registering and send them out the bill.

think ur mis-reading it cormac
i think he’s sayin that the database could be messed with by people, not by the gov
i.e. register a false or non existent property using a false name etc, which could cause
bureaucratic havoc.

oh right

@paul
I understood your point. Just saying if the ordinary citizen could do it what couldn the government.

of course paul, like u i would never do such a thing……
…..mmmmm…….
Mr Buster Gonad,
12 Nut grove,
Ballsbridge,
D 4.

Be advised don’t use own PC or laptop when registering “your details”.

@ Norman would that be your real details or false details?

I think they are exempt.

Sorry people spelling went a bit crazy in places. Blame it on the Keyboard I say!

Hi Richard you are completely right in what you are saying,please check this article.

http://www.fingal-independent.ie/news/household-charge-bringing-no-benefit-2974413.html