cracking proposal. if only our government would learn to think like that. well done.

If my knowlege is accurate, the US student loans have now exeeded $2 Trillion Dollar mark, and the students are leaving universities have degrees but no jobs to pay them back, and guess what if the default the state will pay the loan, from tax payers account.

I only hope our politicians are not that stupid to follow that road. We are not done yet paying for banks mistakes.

Government student loans don’t default. The follow you for life and they are registered on your credit report. Unless you’ve been through the process you probably don’t have enough information to understand the entire premise of the grant/ loan scheme.

Yeah but good luck getting that money back if the person has emigrated outside of the EU…

Do you mean that the Government would set up an investment plan for parents and pay a growth rate on the fund in excess of the market rates so every investor wins even if the market is tanking?

Yes. The government has to make a choice. They can pay a better interest rate over several years or they can pay out social services to unemployed kids and families. The interest rate is cheaper. The government has to make a decision as to whether they want an educated society or not. This is where they put their money where their mouths are.

In the US they have 529 (tax incentive) plans to help fund educational costs. That is a good idea.

It’s a fallacy that all US students leave college with massive debts and nothing to show for it. Like everything, it all depends on your choices.

They don’t leave college with nothing to show for it. They leave with a degree. Without that in the US, you might as well save the ink and paper spent on a cv.

I agree completely. I work 3 12 hour shifts fri sat Sunday and go to college all week. My parents dont give me anything but encouragement! Get your child off there arse and get a job! It can be done! And to tell me there’s no jobs is not true if they are willing, I work in a fast food place which Irish people would have thought beneath them in the boom. And I know for a fact that children of parents on social welfare are entitled to the adjacent rate of grant which is around €6000 per year and have there registration fees paid! So fees cost them €72 per year! If you want it enough you will work for it. They may not have the typical student party lifestyle or afford to live out but I commuted two hours there and two back everyday by bus because I couldn’t afford to live out. IM GRADUATING NEXT FRIDAY. Recession is no excuse.

Omg well fair play to u! I remove it was not easy but I had no choice and neither did u, congrats on ure graduation! U worked literally worked for it :)

WELL DONE!

Were you mitching on the day the teacher showed the class how to spell “you’re”?.

Well done both. That’s the spirit this country needs!

True. But the number of people that wanted to be here, and we’re capable of being here, but could not afford to is a lot higher, this should be a bigger concern to you.

Simon, you are really privileged in your social thought, but it is not a very evolved one. You obviously do not understand the economy at all. What about the thousands of single parent families on the dole who would NEVER get a loan? Even being able to get a loan for college is a privileged position, what about the really poor who can’t avail of these options? If you did do your research you would see that it was not an economic necessity for the government to cut the grant (which funded the very poor) – it was a power move, that made no difference to the gov. Financially.

@ EPC You’re saying they cut the grants for the craic?….

…. I’m sorry, but you’re an idiot.

I pay my way through college, ME, I’m an adult and its my decision to go. No loans(concidering one though for my final year) I work to pay for college, if your family is on the dole that is no excuse, especially since parents on welfare almost always leads to a grant/no fees.

ECP – I would argue you don’t understand the economy at all, our universities are free falling down the ranks every year, this is due to a number of factors, one of the main ones being funding. The knock on effect is that our graduates reduce in standard and therefore we become less competitive. Now, where is this funding going to come from? Can you justify increased budgets for university without an increase in fees when the public sector is facing massive cuts? I agree some support system should be put in place so students do have access to funding if they require it, but the days of the taxpayer paying are numbered IMO. It doesnt make sense. Someone has to pay, I managed to pay for mine because I wanted it enough, and I paid proper fees in the thousands each year, so cut the crap, its about time this country got rid of its sense of entitlement to 3td level education and realise that its something you earn.

Fair play to you. If we can’t invest in our kids, whats the point?

Michael a reformation of the grant would be done with the goal of including people in your sons position! I am a welfare officer in a college and help a lot of students in this position. But why are you and most other people getting angry at families receiving the grant because of low socio-economic status? This is silly. We should stop being so antagonistic toward each other. It seems that a lot of you on this forum think that families from a low socio-economic background are having great craic getting all of your tax payer money, you are so far off – and lightly duped by the media. Here’s a statistic – 8/10 kids in the sherrif street area of Dublin didn’t finish second level last year – do you think they were eager to steel tax payers money? Or do you think they are being neglected by a government who refuses to support a culture of education in these areas and ignored by a tax payer who has been given the easy cop out by the media – that these people are to lazy, ‘ scroungers’ so that noone who could actually make a difference listens and considers the reality.

Such a paucity of vision here. Thousands of single parents receiving child allowance – but this does not even stretch to cover food and heating bills. Please do your research before making these comments – it is your social responsibility, otherwise you give more reason for people who can’t afford education for their kids to be ignored by government policy.

have you forgotten….its recession!! people need their child benefit to pay their children clothing etc…

@Dee- I find it so frustrating when people blame everything on the “recession”. I too would like if it was cheaper to go to college but it has always been expensive and you know that from when your child was born.

“Recession” is such a lazy excuse!

U hit the nail on the head! Rich pay for everything…. That’s t so many are leaving the country, I left, I was paying a fortune in tax to pay for things I never did, can or will be able to benefit from, drop outs cost a fortune, a friend of mine went to college three times and dropped our each time, the longest her lasted so far was 3 months he is 29 and going back again in a few days!

It’s a joke! I’m thinking Dubai, excellent services, rewarded for talent and there’s no tax. We’ll see how all the scroungers will feel when the taxpayers start leaving this country en masse. They might actually have to, you know, pay for the things they want.

You forgot un-democratic when talking describing dubai.

The “free fees” thing in particular was a con. The middle classes diverted their money to private secondary school education, while the supposed beneficiaries ended up paying taxes to support middle class uni students. Even worse, we put control of university funding 100% into govt hands!

Sarah – The grant was cut from 7000-2400 for the people who really needed it. Secondly, because child allowance gets cut before most children finish second level – a lot of kids are dropping out to receive dole payments because the family cannot survive. So even finishing 2nd level is becoming a privilege. Thirdly, I do not believe that college should be taken lightly, but at the moment a system based on acedemic ability is not in place so many of those who are talented enough for it cannot attend cause they cant afford to, which as you said leaves us with alot of students who can ‘afford’ to take the piss. I do not believe the ‘rich’ should ‘pay’ for the poor but this is only happening because the ‘poor’ are not being given the tools to make their way out (economic) so no culture of education can develop and nothing can change – why are you angry at poor people who would like a chance at an education? When everyone is given equal access to education then everyone can pay those dreaded taxes together. And Ireland is NOT a socialist state – that is laughable.

I see your point but actually the government have completely slacked on their commitment to young people, there should be a programme or plan in place to encourage a culture of education among the lower down classes in society. Many kids from these areas do not see themselves in college but only because it has been impossible for them or their parents to access education. This is a power play that keeps the class structure as is. The only thing that was allowing very poor people attend third level was the grant (which the government pretty much ended last year) (cut from 7000-2400) and what was their rational for cutting it – “no one was using it anyway” – - this is a cop out that absolves responsibility and a dedication to equity of access so that all young people can go through third level. It is appalling. And you should consider these points before posting a comment that absolves the government of responsibility even more.

ECP, my point is that perhaps a more relevant survey might be of the people who are most likely to be affected by university costs – the potential 3rd-level candidates themselves.

As someone who graduated from college into this mess in 2009 and spent plenty weeks hunting for jobs and queuing at the social welfare office (and who’s paying it all back in tax and USC now and no doubt for many more years still) I have absolutely no intention of “absolving” the government of anything.

I also thinks it’s important to be aware that the fees question pre-dates the recession. The problem of how we might sustainably fund and develop a truly world-class education system was on the table in good times as well as bad. I don’t think free fees is a viable long-term strategy — not that we really have free fees — but I’m certainly not saying that we go down the US route either (“here’s your degree and $100k in debt”). The cuts being implemented by this government and the last one are short-sighted and hit the most vulnerable and impressionable people in society. No doubt there.

But I don’t know if free education is a real long-term solution. There are plenty lecturers out there who would tell you – anecdotally at least – that increasingly higher numbers have enrolled in degree courses for the sake of it. This impacts the student-teacher ratio, creates a well-documented culture of distorted results and affects the value of third-level output.

I want to see a system that’s fair and inclusive and that’s accessible for those who traditionally have not progressed to third-level for financial reasons. But I also would like to see one that has excellent facilities and provides a higher quality of education and qualification.

Cutting grants is an utterly regressive move. But I don’t think free fees isn’t the answer either. That’s just an opinion.

Well said B Collins.

ECP: I’m not sure the grant was the only blocker. Isn’t it true that poorer people have limited access to educational opportunity even at earlier stages? The “free fees” idea effectively steals money that could have been invested in primary/secondary education, and gives it to the middle classes.

That’s not right. It might be better to have some kind of loan system accessible to all, along with more funding in basic education so more people can actually reach the standard needed for uni.

Again, if kids work they do not receive a grant, though the grant is only 2,400 it is more than most could earn with a part time job during term time. The parents of kids on the grant have no means of putting a bit away because they can barely put good on the table.

Where are all these part time jobs? I know there are some but they’re not very easy to come by.

@eoin they don’t “come by”, you find them, I have never been looking for a job for over a week(have had 7-8 jobs since i was 14).

Print 500 cvs and don’t return home till you have given all of them away…. and grow up

And @EPC I have friends who work on the grant, as long as you don’t work over 28hours a week you are allowed.

There has been very few part time jobs around for a very long time. The jobs aren’t as plentiful, there is more willing to do them.

People don’t seem to get that many parents out there simply can’t afford to put a little away each week – there are so many parents struggling to keep food on the table and pay bills – you live hand to mouth and it annoys me when people say you should think of your children’s future. Yes they do but at that moment in time having enough money to feed you child for the week and keep the roof over their head is more important.

Why do you want your kids to go to college?

Presumably so they can have a better future … that’s probably the best investment you or they could ever make. … but the complaint is that somebody else should come up with the money? (despair)

Can you elaborate on the “look to the US” bit? The educational system in the US is far superior to that in Ireland. You should look into it a bit.

You are right. Just have as many children as you can afford. It is a choice you make. Also when free fees started people were starting courses they had absolutely no interest in or aptitude for. A lot of them barely lasted a couple of months before dropping out.

No see you’re wrong!!! Because before the pay cuts, pay freezes and job losses, many people could afford to have a family. However, things as you may be aware have changed and for many hard working people, this was not a choice!!! So before you tar everyone with the ‘lazy, unwilling to work’ brush….. We didn’t screw up the economy! I didn’t buy a €300,000 house or brand new car, my kids have always been taken care of but as far as being able to save to put my 3 kids through college?!?! Not so sure!

They’re their parents’ kids, but they’re also individuals in their own right, and at the age of 18 the parents have no further legal responsibility to them. And some parents are just dreadful at what they do, as some parents always have been.

It’s really moronic that some people are able to go to third level and some aren’t all because of an accident of birth. What about other factors – like whether they’re intelligent enough to go? Would you deny the next Wilde or the next Hamilton the education that would allow them to fulfill their potential, just because their father or mother drank their salaries away?

Well like u said they are 18, they are their own person, parents are not legally responsible for them, if they want college that bad they will have to get it on they’re own, jobs savings etc try are legally adults, u answered it ureself ;)

“Many go to college to learn and grow, and to try to better their life. Is that too much to ask?” No, just don’t expect me to pay for it.

@180228- I’m finding it difficult to see your point here!

when I was last searching for a job, which was about 1.5 years ago (still in the recession), I was applying for hundreds of jobs a week. 35 should be the amount your applying for each day!

And to say that you have savings that your parents won’t let you use to cover fee’s is just ridiculous. Isn’t that what savings are for?

Your luckier than most people going to college!

180228, sounds like you are already getting an education in the ways of the world.

Summer working in England or US to get fees was the norm in the past

I am guessing the red thumbs are from the middle income crowd. It’s unfortunate that ye are getting screwed left, right and centre due to the governments mistakes but our children deserve an education at the highest level they’re capable off and if any of these children can’t go to college because of fee’s that is a major problem as we might be damning our brightest to a life of misery. Education has to be a top priority for our country.

Dee, they already pay the college fee. If they didn’t you’d be paying the guts of €20k a year, not €2k.

My parents never paid for me to go to college. I paid for my own fees, rent, books and food out of my own pocket by working summers and weekends.

@Partysaurus Rex. I also paid for my own college education by working 20hrs a week throughout my degree and taking annual leave at critical exam times, I wasn’t lucky to get a grant or maintenance payment either! The grants system is completely flawed in this country, it should be scrapped and replaced with a scholarship scheme insuring gifted and capable people (regardless of their means) can get to college!

Why save money when you can spend it on cigarettes and alcohol or trip to torremolinos? Then put on the poor face and wait for the hand outs! Why do people in this country feel they should get everything for nothing. Work for what you get and do without what you can’t afford. No more unneeded handouts.

Part time education and evening courses are the way to go from now on. The days of mass full time college education are over.