That’s the best summery so far!

I think i can see the IMF and ECB’s hands up his arse working his mouth!

Kenny.

Leading from the back again.

Thanks to the home owner tax a value will be placed on everyone’s home by revenue (albeit in 50k bands) – so just use middle of the revenue band plus a %. Write down all mortgages to that and lets get a functioning economy going.

Would you mind if I halved my rental payments to match? Cheers.

Talk to your landlord.

@The Mule, might not be possible but you find it easier to move to a cheaper property

@Scarr, good idea

@Mule
Begrudge much?

Which is it, pissed people took out mortgages and you didn’t, pissed they’re in negative equity and your not or just pissed because you have to pay rent for where you live.

If renting is too high for you take out a mortgage, house prices are cheaper now, you’ll get a bargain.

Or go back and stay at your ma’s :)

None of those options obviously. I’m annoyed that I’m paying too high a rent with the option to buy at too high a price because so many other people are being allowed to live beyond their means in houses they can’t afford. Not only that but I’m being asked to accept tax increases to cover their mortgage writedowns.

I played by the rules, took a safe bet so why should I also lose out?

Daft.ie mate cheaper accommodation for people like you who like to live whithin their means. I mean there’s no point moaning about high rent if you can’t afford it.

Consider your self lucky that you can pack up and change address with out so much as a single problem. Others have a life time of negative equity to pay back due to reckless lending. And they can’t just pack up and leave.
The banks have already been capitalised twice to cover themselves incase of martgage default, constantly increase interest rates and your moaning about renting. Not the same thing mate.

I can afford it you goose. I’d just rather not have to if everyone else is getting off on paying their housing costs.
The banks have been capitalised with my money. Again, I’d rather that money was given back to me and didn’t wind its way up into the hands of the financially feckless.

Because homeowners don’t have to go back to the markets to try and borrow money again. We do. Good luck to us getting funds after we’ve just defaulted.

So you’re telling me that if an individual can repair their credit rating over a period if time after defaulting on a loan you believe it’s impossible for the country to do them same? Come off it! Ireland is a guinea pit nation! The leadership have not got the countries interests at heart, they’ve got Europe’s interests at heart!

More lies David??

Spell check Dec!!!!!! :)

Peasant
If the State or the Banks concede too early you would have an overnight collapse because the moral base of this Nation is somewhere below ground. How else do you explain the eight hundred thousand bogus non resident Bank accounts on one side and the five hundred thousand people not paying their Household charge on the other.
Whatever and wherever the real difficulties lie the issue in Ireland is the enormous number of scam merchants.

the collapse may happen anyway as there is no job creation and too many mortgage holders simply cannot afford to pay, surely creating conditions for economic growth (i.e. job creation and public spending power) would solve this quicker than creating conditions whereby the public has even less money by which to pay (taxing and cutting the hell out of everyone), its not sustainable, either the government or the banks will have to make some concessions

% my ar@e, that would mean someone with a 2 million mortgage would get a €200k write down, why give write down to those who dont need it? it is an extremely short-sighted way to look at it, as those that dont need it will end up having to pay extra tax to cover the guaranteed banks losses under such a scheme.

Well if not a percentage then the same monetary amount should be reduced across the board. It can’t be that we selectively forgive people who borrowed and now cannot pay, particularly if there is any element of recklessness in their original borrowing. We are just rewarding recklessness.

The only recklessness that happened was on the banks side of things, financial advisors spinning the numbers so people would take out more.

Where was the regulation?

Where?

If someone offered me a 110% mortgage on 20K per annum wage stating I wouldn’t have a problem with the payments because of doctored applications…….who the hell wouldn’t take it. It’s their job to sell….anyone remember a shop call the mortgage store?

Now the original asset is worth 1/2 of the original value and ontop of that you lost your job, getting €180 per week.

Now arb, tell me what you see happening in the future for the 100k people already in arrears?

You think the bank wants all those un sellable houses back? There’s not even enough staff to give them as a bonus.

Tick tock…..the time bomb slowly counts down.

I didn’t take that offer Ryan. Myself and many others. Please pay back your debts.

Ah here don’t beat yourself up over it, I know they were throwing money at people but I guess your credit rating was just too bad. You’ve always got yer ma’s gaff to crash at. I’ll rent ya my second property in south county Dublin on the green line. €1400 pm but I know you can’t afford it as you said on other threads. Ohh and btw both my properties are mine, debt free me, not a sausage owed to anyone. Some of us were smart, others not so much, your the latter. Now you really hate me but you’ll get over it.

I’m already on the green line buddy. From what I know the old landlord is doing a fair bit of top up work on my place. Bought at the wrong time, unfortunately for him. What is the difference between him and you? One put it all on red and the other on black. Both clueless.

Also, your attitude is typical of the disdain and sneering that a mortgage holder has for somebody renting. The problem with the celtic bubble is that peoples sense of self worth got tied up in how much property they thought they owned. When you suffer from that sort of personality disorder then it naturally follow that these people would look down on renters as second class citizens worthy of pity.

You have shown your true colours here.

Ryan – who wouldn’t take it? Any intelligent adult wouldn’t.

It galls me that people in jobs with questionable security borrowed stupid amounts of money ‘just cos they were offered it’ and now want to be let off the hook. Let alone borrowing more than 3 or 4 times their annual take home pay.

Under no possible future scenario was their borrowing rational. You can’t play the ‘i was an idiot’ card and now want to walk away. You knew you were just being greedy. Sounds like you might have been well suited to a job in Anglo.

Maybe you should read your mortgage document, sounds like you didn’t bother when you were signing it.

Arb….
Did you miss the point that I made about reckless lending? The bit about financial advisors doctoring paper work, bank managers and under writers signing off on mortgages with even giving them a glimpse?! Getting bonus’ for each mortgage the signed. I know this because of inside knowledge.

It’s all the borrowers fault according to you, however I believe if the ‘banks’ had scrutinised, provided safe and professional practice along with the regulator keeping a check in things, the mortgages wouldn’t be loaned in the first place.

So it is the borrower following dodgy banking practices who’s at fault or the banks for applying the dodgy practices?

@the other fella
I’m debt free because I was smart. It’s nothing to do with contempt, if I was in a different situation at the time, like the rest if the population I would have taken the bait, lucky I didn’t go for property 3 the wife was right. However that doesn’t mean I’v no sympathy to the people who got shafted by the banks, quite the contrary as I see friends and neighbours struggle with the stress of it all. I feel real bad for those people who don’t know if they’ll have a house this time next year.

As I’v said tock tock, it’s a time bomb waiting to go off. Leaving distressed mortgages until its out of control is a bad thing to do.

Spot on Ryan.
From 1st hand experience with 90% of the Irish banks.
I can truthfully say that, the product was poisoned at source.
To try and blame the end user, is less than ridiculous.
1000’s of financial distress related suicides.
Where is the banks duty of care, in all this?

Fail much in Life? Just asking since you clearly dont have a clue what you are talking about?

“Fail much in life?” is not a complete sentence.

Au contraire mon freund, I know a lot about this subject. Would you like me to post a screen grab of my savings account?

they are blamed, the point is that the risk was on both sides and only the borrower has responsibility, the majority in arrears are so due to circumstances beyond their control, if these things arent resolved they will end up costing the state, that is the reality

Sorry Peasant, the risk was not on both sides. Due to our bankruptcy laws and non-recourse mortgages the risk was almost entirely on the mortgage holders side and that is the way it should remain or any future contracts would be meaningless. You don’t buy a property off a bank. You loan the money off them to buy a property and you owe that money no matter what happens. So if you bought in Priory Hall, tough. Be more careful with your money in future.

Mule.. To say people just stopped paying their mortgage displays a remarkable level of ignorance of the torment too many of your fellow country men and women are being subjected to today. Take a minute to consider they may very much want to pay their mortgage but due to circumstances that are being engineered by others are simply unable.

Endas not pleased! Bank bosses are quaking in their boots like never before. Then he goes on about how being able to declare yourself bankrupt is the great solution to people’s problems. Bankruptcy is a tool that was designed by the wealthy to save themselves. It was never aimed at ordinary people.

Trolls gonna troll.

@mule you show a great deal of naivety if you think there’s no risk in lending money, reality contradicts your contention.

What risk is there on the bank’s side? They probably didn’t account for crazy legislation that blocked repossessions and completely rewrote contract/bankruptcy law.

the risk is non-repayment, did you really need that pointed out? have you considered the notion that you cant get blood from a stone?, i know one guy that been brought to court 3 times for the one debt, each time the judgement was against him and each time his debt increases, he will never pay it, and before you say this or that will happen to him he will not pay it, he owns nothing and is unlikely to ever work again as he is early 60′s, tell me how the bank took no risk lending to him? the banks were stupid and took incredibly stupid risks, theres plenty of developers sailing off into the sunset without paying their debts’, no risk you say? are you sure?

Ok, non payment. Then they have an asset that is worth a lot of money. Does it cover the total mortgage plus costs? If no then they persons still owe the shortfall. You can’t get blood from a stone you say but if somebody is 35 are you telling me there is no way they would be able to pay back 100K over their lifetime? Your example of a man in his 60s would be outside the norm. Even then a person like that could find themselves with an inheritance so it is worth the banks while to wait.

plenty of people of all ages have handed back the house-keys to the banks, the house is worthless unless you can sell it, maybe you aren’t aware of what’s happening to property prices here? or how many empty houses there are? many mortgage holders no longer view their house as an asset and if you would just scroll up the page and look at what’s written in the article, you will see, based on the number of distressed households involved, that the banks did indeed take a great number of risks, you seem to be failing to grasp the extent of the problem, debts have been written off in this country before

Mule, that’s the typical reaction I’d come to expect from an Irish person who is in a good position: “why would I give a toss about anyone but myself”.

I spend about 5K a year on the less well off Mark so forgive me when for trying to preserve some more of my income for myself.

Mule if there is not a solution found we all lose. there are 80,000+ who are close to losing their homes, if they do who is going to house these people

They can rent somewhere cheap. This village is a bit grim but its an hour from lots of places including Dublin. I would hate to live their but at least its affordable to everyone and it has probably 100 empty houses.

http://www.myhome.ie/rentals/brochure/65-radharc-an-mhuilinn-killucan-co-westmeath/1884407

Here is an apartment that they could easily afford.I woudln’t like to live there but then why should I have to.

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/3-the-orchard-cloverhill-road-clondalkin-dublin-22/2321380

Think thats the part most of the pro bank brigade don’t realise frank, you can’t have families with children on the streets so someone is going to have to rehouse them and it will be the goverment, so in the end people like the pro bank lobby will end up footing the bill.

Mule you are exactly right. Good on you.

Mule
go on admit it you are really Phil Hogan (or Enda Kenny).

Admit it Enda you don’t even have a clue what interest only is.
Europuppet Stoogeen Schoolteacher “Government”
Sher you’ll have it all sorted out by summer Enda, just in time for another few hundred suicides (and 50,000 emigrations) .
Hope it doesn’t mess up your generous summer holidays or the Gathering Enda.

Just imagine it Enda
especially for the Gathering
you could have lines of distressed mortgage holders throwing themselves into the Liffey on front of The Four Courts all at one time.
Throwing themselves into the Liffey because of your cowardice and inaction Enda.
“A True extravaganza Enda.”
“Bravo”