One or two day absences because of a sickness should not need to be certified. Doctors can’t really help you with the flu or colds anyway. If your boss doesn’t trust you, well that a whole other matter.

Another point on this, though is that I hate seeing people in the office when they’re sick. Not because of my deep empathy for my fellow humans, but because they’re spreading their filthy virus all over the place. Stay at home!

Its the people who treat sick days as annual leave or take a Monday off after a weekend of heavy drinking that will ruin it on genuinely sick people! I refuse to pay ?50 when I have a bad head cold to have the doctor tell me to take some paracetamol and rest for a day or two. Its the people calling in sick on Fridays and Mondays that employers need to watch.

The level of regulation should reflect the likelihood of the employee to take the mick.

Are people likely to abuse the system and treat sick days as extra annual leave?

I agree with this however i also agree that we shouldn’t have to pay so much to see a GP. Healthcare from the state is a right not a privilege, we pay for it twice over here and barely get it

Yeah let’s go pay a doctor €50 for a note when I’ve a virus he can do nowt about but tell me to spend the day in bed and take on fluids, that makes sense!!

I hit yes by mistake. My vote should have been a no. I don’t agree that every single day should be certified. If you want to go that way then make doctors drop there fees, because they are extortionate.

Obviously there has to be some level of trust and where trust fails, and people abide by the letter rather than the spirit of the rule, there has to be accountability.

Not unlike the expenses issue being discussed elsewhere on this site.

What it all seems to be coming down to is that we can’t trust anyone because some people will abuse any system. What becomes contentious is that those who are trustworthy will have to be accounted for the same as those who aren’t. The default becomes suspicion, and that’s not very nice for anyone.

Is it being abused, yes. Do people genuinely have one or two days sick, yes. However, should you have to pay between 50 and 65 euro if you know that you have a migrain or the flu, I don’t think so. What needs to be done is monitor for repeat offenders and specific days of the week (Friday, Monday etc) and have a process through performance management, SLA’s KPI or whatever to manage it. Putting employees in a situation that they need to produce a sick note will discourage them from going to the doctor, potentially missing something and resulting in lonnger term issues putting more pressure on employers and the health system. Not to mention, if the come to work and infect colleagues, decreasing productivity, increasing absense, let alone causing possible harmful working conditions depending on job. I think that we should be looking more at a workable solution to deal, with what we know to be happening, than to try to take a morale stand on the issue.

Huge sick absence is due to poor people management and an office culture that promotes it.

When I worked in NY we had six days a year to be sick and in the first pay Pay pack in January you were paid for any days you did not take the previous year no problem with people calling in who were not genuinely sick

Absolutely not for one or two days max, and a sick note is already required after that. Quick example, you eat out and are up all night with food poisoning. You’ve had it before and know that, more than likely, you’ll only have to absent yourself from work for that day. Whats the point of going to the doctor for a note when they don’t have to prescribe you anything and you know it won’t last?

People are definitely taking liberties with sick days but charging genuinely sick people to go to the doctor for a cert for something a doc can’t fix is wrong. Why not a sliding scale of full pay for x amount of days then 90%, 80% etc for days after that…?

You should be allowed to take a day or two “unpaid” sick days without a note, but if you expect to be off sick and also to get paid, then a note should be required. I’m pretty sure that any healthy person that needs a note, can get one pretty easily by visiting their GP, but having a “No play, no pay” system in place would quickly cut out a lot of the messing.

Personally, if I had to pay to go to the doctor I’d never take a sick day, I’d come into work and infect the whole place.

A single sick day should not require certification but should if it’s a Friday or Monday and you should have to undergo a return to work interview with your manager.

In the long run exposure ti flus and colds will stead you well. You do acquire some immunity . Its only bad for those immuno compromised . One or two days should not need a cert :-)

Very true Martin Mac about being self employed….,but, i noticed when i worked over seas for 27 years the Irish didn’t go sick like they do here,(actually they had a great reputation as workers even after been out on the piss the night before) it’s not tolerated in other country’s like it is here. I think company’s,civil service
….. should reward people who don’t use or abuse sick leave.

What the Hell is going on here today with the Journal, this is the fourth story relating to the Public Service? You’d be forgiven for thinking there’s a not so hidden agenda here. One genius up there believes that “nearly 90% of “sickness” in this country is alcohol related” but fails to cite his source, he doesn’t have much to say about “odd hypochondriacs female” either. And we’re supposed to listen to this?
What the Hell is wrong with people? Yes the Public Service have 7 uncertified sick days in any 12 month period, not per year. As I work in the Health Service I know anyone working there does not waste these days, they are instead treated as something precious as everyone knows they may need them at any time and everyone must have a meeting with their line manager after EVERY period of sick leave, even one day. This is to ensure its not being misused. IF, and its a big IF someone were to regularly miss a Monday due to a hangover it would be spotted very quickly and dealt with with even quicker.
I’d like to suggest something. The next time everyone has to ring 999 for a garda, fire brigade or ambulance or if you should happen to end up in your local A&E Department please feel free to discuss this conversation with them, go on, ask the garda, fireman or nurse about sick leave while they’re putting out the fire in your house or pulling your child out of a ditch or treating a loved one in A&E. Go on.

Where do all these people with a “build up” of “21 sick days to take” actually work? Can I go work with them cos it sounds like a fierce cushy number, that!

You get 7 days uncertified sick leave per 12 months in the civil service, but you can’t just take them in one lump and you don’t get to carry them over if you haven’t used them either. If you take more than 2 days in a row, you must provide a cert. If you’re out both a monday and a friday, you must provide a cert because that actually counts as 4 days sick (naturally enough if you’re sick on a friday and monday, then you’re sick Saturday and Sunday too!). The occasional sickie that I take is because I’m sick, not sick enough to be indulged by a doctor, even for €60 and definitely not because I fancy a day off.

Rather than seeking GP certs for individual sick days, if an employer has an issue with high level of absenteeism then perhaps they should investigate why this is. Seeking to certify every sick day will only serve to create an environment of distrust with employees and in the impact morale as well as productivity.

Someone mentioned earlier about a common cold not being a justifiable reason to go to work. I wouldn’t necessarily agree. While agreed not a life threatening condition, a common cold does affect performance at some level and is contagious. Surely a better position is to avoid spreading contagion to other staff members thus impacting productivity further?

As usual we have the public service bashing… There is a report (UK govt) which shows that if a cert is required sick leave increases as the person will want value from the cert and be sick for longer, losing more days. So what do you want- punish people for being sick, or what

yeah – lets have people with colds out for a day or 2 wasting time at the GP, or worse yet effectively pressuring GPs for sick certs retroactively etc…
It does come down to some common sense; its a employer employee problem if there is distrust about short absences – its not a medical problem.

When sick, I always ensure that I get a medical cert. Your illness cannot be called into question then, nor can your sick days be queried. When I am sick, I am genuinely sick, and I don’t wish to be lumped into the same category as those taking sick days for hangovers etc. With regard to the people who are self employed and/or running your own business, i think it is easier to be sick and work when you are your own boss, to be fair. You are hardly going to reprimand yourself for any error you make and/or lack of concentration that you have.

I suppose if the dr gave u the cert for free. But then again u may b too thrown down with being sick to get to the dr. Guess u would b as well going to work and coughing all over everyone before u went home sick

Today the unions are dying and the workers are being exploited left right and centre.It is a golden opportunity for employers.To be sick is now called to be absent.And while sick on doctor’s cert you are losing 3 day’s pay .We are returning to Victorian values:the workers are starting to lose all their rights little by little.
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Great have a sick note for every sick day – that is of course when we don’t have to pay 65 euro to get it. It will be possible to do this when GP’s are regulated with their prices. Wouldn’t we all love to earn 65 euro for 10 minutes!! At that price it is cheaper to lose a days pay!

No way. There’s no reason the already bloated medical profession should be additionally enriched just because people decide to call in sick. Have you every known a doctor to refuse a medical cert? They’ll slap you up a prescription for anti-biotics and off you go. Charlatans the lot of ‘em.

If abuse of sick days is a problem, doctors are not part of the solution.

As a contract worker all my life, the notion of sick pay infuriates me. If I’m too sick to do my job, I don’t do the job and I don’t get paid. I often think the “hard-pressed” PAYE workers don’t know how lucky they are.

Having to pay for a sick cert while you have a medical card says it all, if certain surgeries had any integrity they would be more interested in stating the true health of the patient rather than securing a fee just for stamping a piece of paper, typical bureaucratic Ireland.

@Dan O N you cant just fire people who abuse the system. By law you can revoke their sick pay. But the law is also on the side of the employee and I have seen people getting compensation in court because their sick pay been removed and they suffered mental stress and so on. The requirement to get a cert for sickness is not the answer what is need is a complete change to how the system works. I would be in favour of something like first two days sick leave unpaid and if longer sickness a certificate would be required. When you have seen first hand how people abuse the system it gets really annoying.

If you had to attend the Doctor and spend €50 to get a sick certificate it might stop people taking the pi$$ out of the system.

The only way to change this behaviour is to incentivise people to not take sickies. Cut their salary by 2% but allow them say 3% bonus for keeping un-vouched sick days to less than say 5 days per year. Figs are plucked out of the sky but behaviour wont change as long as there is no incentive for employees to change – basic human nature.

Have no sick pay… You’ll find there’ll be quite a few less people taking days off then. nI don’t get a cent from my job if I’m out sick. nIf people are sick let them claim social welfare for it like everyone else.

Far too many people taking liberties, in every sector, public and private, if you’re not in you shouldnt be getting paid. You’re not contributing to the business so why should you be paid?

irish hangovers are so bad its more productive to stay at home, when i’m on holidays i drink more and have less of a hangover, when i’m here i drink less and i feel like my head is in a vice,

So basically the most common opinions being put here are 1.If you are genuinely sick and can’t afford to take a day off,you are vilified at work because you are spreading germs 2.if you are genuinely sick and pay €50 for a doctors cert,you are vilified at work because you are seen to be abusing the system

Two days at least in a row uncertified. If the employer wants a cert for a doctor to tell you something you already know then the employer should pay for the cert. of your lying then employee pays – fair!

What about the billions being lost to prop up dead banks?? €26 million is small in comparison. Targetting the small guy again.

F*ck paying €50 to go a doctor!! Just cut the sick pay im working all my life and if im sick i dont the paid public service workers shouldnt get sick pay full stop!! Only sick pay should be from the social if not able to work for onw week plus then the social should pay sick pay :)

I think the Irish workers who have a sick benefit scheme take advantage of it. There is no reason not to go to work with a cough cold or simple flu earaches sore throats etc. But people will ‘take the week’. Also I hear people saying ‘ I’ve 22 annual days and 21 sick days to take ‘. It’s treated ad leave and abused. Sick notes have been refused by doctors, but it’s well known that if this happens the ‘sick ‘person will just head down to the next GP who is a softer touch. Issuing of sick Certs should not be done by GPs but by independent doctors who can examine you without any previous knowledge of you , thus can make an objective decision regarding your fitness. And of course the sick person should cover the fee either way. Surely it’s the doctors medical opinion you set seeking not just a note ??

There are a lot of people genuinely sick with various health problems that can drag on for years. Most days those in work are able to make it, but there are many days where they simply can’t and these cases would probably have nothing to do with alcohol. For those that do abuse the system, they are a disgrace. Some years ago, there was serious controversy when the Dublin Fire Brigade sent a doctor to the homes of all who were absent one Monday morning. Perhaps this should be considered at least by state and larger enterprises? I don’t know who paid for it.

there would be far fewer sick days taken by both public and private sector workers if a doctors note was needed for all sick leave. employees taking sick days when they have a hangover or a sniffle is a complete joke. if i had to pay €50 for a GP appointment or suffer with the hangover i think i’d pick the latter option.

I’m living in Japan at the moment, and there’s no such thing as a sick day over here. If you can’t make it in because you are ill, it comes out of your holidays whether you have a doctors note or not.
I think this system works well to certain degree as it prevents people from taking the piss, but I think it’s a little extreme and a doctors note should should allow the employee to take a day off without it affecting their holiday time, but without one, I believe the person should lose a days leave.

Jesus Christ, how the hell are there such a massive percentage of No votes?!?! Guess a lot of Civil Service workers read the Journal.

Yea there should be a sick note for every day your off! It would stop a lot of people abusing it! No note no pay for that day! I am just about to go into business for myself and it sickens me the idea that i will have to pay some little prat a wage when he is too hungover to come into work!

I would in my arse pay a doctor 50 euro for a note that i have a viril infection when he can’t even prescribe me anything !!! Yas all must be joking !! 50 euro might not be a lot of money for you lot on this giving out but it’s a lot of money to me !! If your sick Ur sick Notting you can do about it !!! Oh and I have had the winter vomiting bug and there is no way in hell I would be a le to get in a car and drive to a doctors and to get a doctor to do a house call is crazy money , you people make me laugh , you obviously have plenty of cash to be thrown around !!!

I take me sick days when i get sick off working !! Take a day out head into town buy meself something nice go for dinner, head the pictures and just spoil meself basically i deserve it !!

Drs are running an unofficial racket. They hide behind the ICGP and IMO and pretend they’re complying with the competition authority when in reality they’re running a cartel ripping off patients for the simplest of medical needs. Ever seen or heard of a poor GP? Doubtful

Roughly 40% of the population have a medical card and they make up nearly 80% of consultations in most parts of the country so the idea that the GP is coining it from sick certs is nonsense. GPs do not want to be doing certs for coughs and colds for no return when they have better things to be doing.