“They abused people and damaged the church’s credibility.” It may have been more appropriate to say, ” They abused people and damaged their lives irreparably “

A mystery eh? Well thankfully the guards don’t just throw their hands in the air and think the same.

No mystery – the people who committed these crimes are evil, and those who systematically covered it up pure evil.

Pope still gets applause despite no apology from the organisation regarding the cover up.

I actually cannot find the words…

Does that apply to the decades of coverups as well?

It is mystery how the Roman Catholic church managed to get away with moving priest child rapists from town to town and even country to country for decades without anyone in the civil authorities doing something useful until relatively recently. The other mystery is how a secular government can still tolerate discredited religious control of schools. What is Ruari Quinn doing about this scandalous arrangement?

The fact that people still fall for this religion stuff is a mystery.Pedo protecting orginization is all it is.

He was involved in the cover ups as a cardinal! Hypocritical comments as usual from the head of the catholic church…, shame on the lot of them.

Hang on doesn’t this guy have God on Speed dial? So the Pope is Best mates with an All mighty Diety and claims to know the answers to questions like, how did the Universe begin? But he doesn’t know why hundreds of his Employees raped children and got away with it.

The biggest load of rubbish ever heard in Croke Park and that’s including Pat Spillane’s rants

‘Regularly received the Lord’s body’ and ‘confessed their sins’ wasn’t enough to stop it?

What does that tell ya? Maybe these things either #1 don’t work. #2 are not enough – you might actually have to make efforts, exercise your own conscience to be moral and ethical instead of deferring to the magical middleman of authority.

….everything is the Lord’s body. You’re knee deep in it, and making out like you’re the source of it, and that people need to come to you is the same evil schtick played out the world over.

If the Vatican really knew the message of Jesus imo, they would remind people of their always-already goodness. Shame would not enter the equation – not in the way that it has anyway. Maybe shame based on wrongdoing, not ‘original sin’ of being an incarnated being. There are no remainders in the infinite, eternal nature of God. Flesh is part of that, and could not be the basis for original sin of any kind.

Which makes me conclude that either the Vatican has absolutely no idea of what Jesus was about, or they know, and are using it in an evil and insidious way – keeping the message out of sight and giving a warped version instead. Jesus never, ever said that a church or a middleman of any kind was needed for Realization. He grilled the church in his own time and place, and they killed him for it.

….it’s not much a mystery to me, this clerical abuse, even though I consider evil itself to be a mystery in some ways. But as far as the relatively knowable contours go: the church is a perfect place for paedophiles to hang out in plain sight undetected. A supply of fresh young blood. A populace too scared and ashamed to speak out against the Zeitgeist. An administration that is above the law, and is resistant to being transparent as a whole, or even demanding it of its constituent members. What’s so mysterious about that?

…every time this guy “apologizes” he sneaks in a Trojan Horse of the church’s magical powers, as well as his message of ‘faith’ (obedience).

As I have stated before I can understand why people can be Christians, what I cant understand is how Christians can remain part of the Catholic Church. I have spoken before about good priests, and I still believe that there are some genuine priests out there, but what is really “a mystery” is how they can stand by a church that is so contrary to their deeply held spiritual convictions.

Mistake ? MISTAKE???????? A mistake is putting garlic in the dessert , not the systematic abuse of children. So glad I left that organisation and did not allow my children near them , no communions baptisms etc.

@ paddy how can you call the systematic rape and abuse of our countrys children “a few mistakes” not to mention the subsequent cover ups and lies spewing from the mouths of the bishops and hierarchy in the catholic church I was raised a catholic and still believe in god but I can do it from the comfort of my own home without having to go to church and listen to some man (because women aren’t allowed to join their elite organisation) tell me how to live my life when he hasn’t got the faintest idea on the real world and what real people go through in their lives.

Love to know Roy Keanes opinion on this one

Just how detached from reality is that man?

For anyone who’s interested in this type of thing….plus Stephen Fry = Legend :-)

Live Debate : Motion, “Is the Catholic Church a force for good?”

Stephen Fry and Christopher Hitchens VS Archbishop John Onaiyekan and Ann Widdecombe MP.

An audience of 1500 people vote on the motion before and after the debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5OMNPmoVAw

Paddy, Dont count me as one of your proud 87.4% of citizens as proud catholics. They are a figment of your imagination. Am too ashamed to call myself a catholic anymore.

We were peddled ‘mysteries’ as “religion”. Now we’re being peddled mysteries as excuses. The man should be floggged.

Or fr. troll.

So he can add it to all the other mysteries of the roman catholic church. What a joke. I could not believe the number of people who were at croke park. Maybe there really are so many people who consider themselves members of the RC church . I know there were a lot of foreign delegates , it still surprised me. As long as that many people hang on the very words of their leader and believe him , i don’t expect any real change. I get the feeling they are going ” for god sake would they ever shut up about child sexual abuse already , sure didn’t we give them a “healing stone!!!” and didn’t the boss say he didn’t know what to say, it’s a mystery , would they ever get over themselves” that’s what it feels like to me. It would make your blood boil.

Is that why he didn’t appear at the congress! To join the other (not all) hypocrites in frocks! He could not face the real people whose lives were ruined by freaks!

@ Paddy Bebop – u truly are a langer!

he believes he eats and drinks hes creator who is also his own father and a zombie he also believes in virgin births and that in no way man evolved from primitive apes no wonder its a mystery HE’S AN IDIOT …and also he was in the Hitler youth so an evil idiot to boot…….and paddy bebop … although individual priests were of great help during the famine foreign donations of money never made it to our shores the evil empire saw to that….. and pagan isnt bad just cause you think so

The universal truth is the the C. C. , like most abusive organisations, will continue to lie about anything they have not been totally nailed down on!!

It’s official. The pope smokes dope.
There is no other explanation.

Lots of decent people here responding to trolls. Please don’t waste your time giving them the attention they crave. As for the point “all the good the church has done” I’d like to throw in the organisation’s resistance to free state education and health care, before and after independence; it’s support for fascist regimes throughout the 20th century; it’s denial of protection for millions of Africans in the battle against AIDS ; it’s dismissal of homosexual people as “intrinsically disordered” ; it’s intrinsic subjugation of women as second class people; it’s doubtful provenence in terms of morality based on near pre-historic desert cults. Oh, and it’s collusion and facilitation in the sexual and physical abuse of children on an industrial scale. No mystery to me as all of this is the predictably mundane behaviour expected of a power-hungry criminal gang. No mystery at all Benny.

I think it’s not faith but nostalgia which is holding people in the catholic church. You hear the hymns or prayers and it may bring back memories. Or indeed some people I know will remain catholic as they were taught to be by their parents who they love and respect. As one who left the church and purposely did not allow my children to be involved , I know my choice caused hurt and unhappiness. It’s not hard to walk away but it’s very hard to watch those you love being hurt by that.

They managed to get millions of idiots to believe in the immaculate conception, so anything is possible!

Of course you can leave. You were 6 weeks old when they poured water over your head and recited some “mumbo jumbo” You did not willilgly or knowingly become a member. So; Walk Away, you will be amazed how your life will improve and a heavey weight will be lifted, you will see the real world in all it’s natural beauty. Best thing by far, that I have ever done. I walked away at 12 years old.

Maybe the next time the Pope is chatting to God (that is his thing right? that he hears the voice of god?) He could ask him to clarify up things so that the systemic rape, abuse and torture of innocent children by sanctimonious believers in a talking snake can be more understood by him.

Register your new status with a silicitor and that when you die you do not want any religious fiends at your funeral. That is what I have done, and a bit more.

clerical sexual abuse a mystery? is that a bit like the mystery of the virgin birth , or the resurrection, which are only mysterys as long as you have ignorance and a climate of fear ? There’s no mystery here. Power is always abused , and a dogma that doesn’t allow questions or admit that it is wrong will always pull in the darker side of humanity , because power is the key and the goal. Those who wish to retain power excercise a ruthlessness and inhumanity which transcends rationality and perverts society.

Has anyone in the RCC’s hierarchy ever investigated the link between celibacy and child abuse? All humans have urges of a sexual nature (priests are humans too) so a celibate life cannot be a natural way to live. If anything, the pretence of celibacy may have actually lured paedophiles into the church so they could have direct access to children. Some may have abused children as a result of their celibate life. Either way they were, and are, evil b######s. But it’s the church that is accountable for a repressive regime that suppresses human nature. I know priests who would make great husbands and fathers but the church can’t see this. Jesus was married, why can’t priests (uh oh, now I’ve done it!!!)

87% of ireland are listed as catholic because the catholic church removed the process by which you can leave 3 years ago

Shower of dysfunctional f%$ks. Arnt the church great…..sure they even robbed pagan festivities and made them their own. the sooner this country rids itself of disease the better. They make me feel so ill!

“I’m reminded of the line from the film A Few Good Men – “You Can’t Handle The Truth”.”

You hit the nail on the head, Paddy. They cannot handle the truth, so they have and continue to suppress it at all costs. There is nothing mysterious about it. You don’t even need a PhD in psychology to figure it out. Common sense will bring you to most of the answers.

And why do I, as a survivor, not see 87+% of those proud Roman Catholics at Mass on a Sunday ? Too busy down the pubs shaking fists in the air shouting, “Tiocfaidh ar la !” ?

I don’t see ANYONE here criticising the good in anything the Church may have done in the past, present or might do in the future.

They are rightly criticising what Benedict himself calls, ‘rot and filth’ which he is obviously not prepared to root out as to do so would be to hold hand to heart and offer a sincere, ‘Mea Culpa’.

If this lot want to retain any sense of credibility let alone any degree of real trust again – they need to be TRUTHful and cut out the scapegoating.

And as I share these few thoughts here, I speak them to the palm of my right hand, realising I have more chance of being heard by Palmy than the ‘rot and filth’ in the Church.

Thank you and God bless you :-)

A purposely made video, to be shown to the sheep. How very facist, or is that a Nazi thing to say?

@Irene and others. There is an explanation that may help curb your feelings of depression and exasperation, regarding the causes and responses to these despicable crimes. Their is scientific proof that shows that, in Ireland’s case, two to three per cent of people are psychopaths. The majority are socially adept and non violent. Through brain scans coupled with psychological tests, it has been proven that these people actually do exist. It is a terrifying reality that has taken me years to accept, but it is true. The characteristics of these people are that they are attracted to positions of power and status. They are incapable of remorse and show no signs of having a conscience. They are are also glib and superficially charming. They lie with ease and are experts at manipulation. They are also attracted to vulnerable people and organisations that claim to care for such people. When you despair, as I have done in trying to understand the mindset of individuals and organisations involved in the commission, or cover up of these crimes, then please look into psychopathology. Dr. Robert Hare is a good place to start. For an insight into politically socially adept psychopaths, check out Politicalponerology.com. The pandemic of unacknowledged psychopaths within our midst, is akin to the problem of sexual abuse in our societies in the past. It was so awful that it simply could not be believed. If we do not educate ourselves, regarding the existence of this pandemic, then I’m afraid that history will repeat itself, over and over again.

Oh yes! Clerical abuse moves in mysterious ways bla bla bla! Here’s an Idea, Let priests get married, stop controlling primary education through dictating the ethos of the school with sexually frustrated men.

I personally believe you don’t need religion to have faith. I have faith, faith in humanity, but no faith in the Catholic Church. How can I? I’m a woman after all.

My humble prose could never match some of the very enlightened comments posted here over the last few hours, so I’ll quote Thomas Babington Macaulay, referring to the Catholic Church, “She was great and respected before the Saxon had set foot on Britain, before the Frank had passed the Rhine, when Grecian eloquence still flourished at Antioch, when idols were still worshipped in the temple of Mecca. And she may still exist in undiminished vigour when some traveller from New Zealand shall, in the midst of a vast solitude, take his stand on a broken arch of London Bridge to sketch the ruins of St. Paul’s.” The RCC is not perfect but, for believers, it is God’s (the fairy thing people rail against with such vehemence) It will be here after the Euro, after the EU, after the Republic of Ireland etc etc become paragraphs (or footnotes) in history books. Despite the best efforts of enemies without and with in, it will survive…why??…because for believers, its part of the plan!

OMG

Did any of you brave commentators actually listen to the Pope’s speech? The mystery referred to is the same mystery as to why fathers would sexually abuse their daughters.

If you’re interested in what the man actually said: http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/pope-calls-irish-abuse-crisis-appalling.

I have to say that I saw some of it, and the young woman from Armagh was an inspiration. The young student teacher who quoted Catherine of Sienna, “Become the person you are meant to be and set the world on fire.”

She could teach the pope and a few others a thing or two.

But then so did Catherine of Sienna. She took none of their crap either.

Paddy BeBop
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278 25 People on here are a bunch of pagans with serious hatred of an institution that kept this country in bad times (famine, occupation etc). Ye definitly represent a small % of Irish people. Grow up the lot of ye and get over the few mistakes that were were made. The Catholic Church is among the oldest institutions in the world and has played a very important role in advancing human civilisation throughout the centuries. More so than any of ye begrudgers anyways!! Benedict, like JP2, is a good lad as well so let’s give him a chance”
This is so DEPRESSING, is anything EVER going to change in this country… I cannot believe that is written into the second decade of the 21st century… let’s celebrate ignorance!!! Ye and ye and ye………!!!!!

People on here are a bunch of pagans with serious hatred of an institution that kept this country in bad times (famine, occupation etc). Ye definitly represent a small % of Irish people.

Grow up the lot of ye and get over the few mistakes that were were made. The Catholic Church is among the oldest institutions in the world and has played a very important role in advancing human civilisation throughout the centuries. More so than any of ye begrudgers anyways!!

Benedict, like JP2, is a good lad as well so let’s give him a chance.

I have to say on a separate yet related matter – the stone in Lough Derg. I just read about that and the ‘prayer’ inscribed on the thing. It’s an insult and in my opinion a sacrilege on that lovely little island. Been there a few times over the years and whatever else about it, believer or not, you get a good detox.

Always qualifiers, little ‘get out’ clauses in these ‘prayers’. “Some of us………. ” And no mention of young people, vulnerable adults or ‘some’ others I could mention. I’d love to speak to the survivors who were consulted on that one. And then having the audacity, after being party to the murder of innocence, of souls, asking that they be the ones shown how to help.

“Physician heal thyself,” comes to mind.

I surely need my head examined remaining with any of this. But I won’t be beaten by them, have the ‘faith’ that ‘makes well’ desecrated too, or ‘some’ of the real good which is realised through ‘many’ of the good people – be they lay or cleric.

And I agree with you Tom. Sexually frustrated ‘celibates’ should be sorting themselves out or taking cold showers and not preaching to anyone. Least of all married persons. I never understood how it was right or good to ‘teach’ young children to be Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Muslim, Hindu anyway. I see no evidence of Jesus preaching to or ‘teach’ing young children. He did say, “Unless you become as one of these……. ” Ideally before the ‘some’ get their hands on them and cause their ruination.

Anyway – that stone in a disgrace.

The rest I now take with a very huge dose of Epsom salts and a hot flush in the AM.

Sorry for that but that’s all the rest is worth.