I doubt it. Anytime I have witnessed pro life protests against clinics in the UK and US I felt they were very aggressive and intimidating. I felt very sorry for the employees and patients having to pass the protesters.

Can you imagine the women there for contraception having to pass by those protestors?

I’m with Conor on that one, but I don’t think we’ll have to worry about the sort of fanatical hardcore elements they have out there in the states to. I’m talking about the ones that wont even acknowledge the argument about the pregnancy being a risk to the life of the mother, and actually stalk and threaten employees with violence.

Darren, look at the history of Youth Defence and the trials that their members have been involved in. Also take into account the people who fund and train pro-life groups here. You need only look at the speaker line up at some of their conferences to see the direction in which they are going.

Stephanie, thanks for the info. If it’s a case that that kind of stuff starts up I’d be all for organizing a counter movement like the one in the states where they perform counter espionage on militant protesters that carry out stalking and intimidation tactics, ring them up and then read them a list of some of their own personal information. No violence involved, just a hint that two can play at that game and if they persist some information they’d rather keep secret might happen to find its way to their family, friends, and employers.

Ah yes, the irony of the pro life people who quite readily resort to violence when people disagree with them.

I must dig out my “down with that sort of thing” placard!!

Marie Stopes was a huge nazi sympathiser and eugeneics preaching freak. She sent love letters to Hitler. I’m sure she is delighted by the sheep queuing up to kill their kids.

Marie Stopes was actually opposed to abortion… So if you’re making the “Nazi sympathiser comparisons” and thus losing the internet, you might not want to highlight that people who agree with you are the Nazis. :-)

Very true Nicolas, but the trouble here is that Stopes really was a Hitler fan.

Ed – for eugenics to be successful then someone must choose who is ‘genetically suitable’ to breed and who isn’t. This can’t take place commercially because anyone can ask for abortions, there is no ‘racial purity’ panel as there were for the Nazis’. So no, I don’t think she would be too happy actually.

LarBren1 – the trouble with your argument is that Marie Stopes was a pro-life fan.

The clinic is named after her for the work she did in getting maternal healthcare to be a priority for government. They have disavowed many of her views and were established nearly 20 years after her death.

Fair play to Marie Stopes at least asking people not to protest. Enough mud slinging online without brining it to the streets and making the situation worse than it has to be.

Besides that I think it’s a good idea, so long as it’s done properly and carefully, Stormont watches what their doing I think it’s a grand thing.

Before long it will be 24 weeks with a doctors bieng newded and longer if a couple of Certs are are produced as is done a the same clinic in Croydon Melbourne .
Sometimes there is a case for termination , but more resources. Should go to promote adoption ask someone who is adopted themselves, or ask childless couple their opinion, it should not be only about the “Mothers” choice and the baby gets no say at all.

well said patricia ….women have the right to choose and the choice is hard enough with out having to leave our country bring this clinic to dublin and lets all give people the tools they need to choose whats right for them, we shouldnt be sneeking of to do whats right for us not every women will have an abortion but those who do deserve to be able to do it without being labeled and feeling like a criminal …

I don’t have a problem with abortion her body her choice.What bravery is required though?is there cases where the foetus has fought back to protect itself?is this why they need to be brave?

Ever heard of George Tilller?

Nick i assume the question was to me .I know who he was,and your point is what?

You asked about bravery. Working in a clinic can often come with harassment and death threats. I think offering services regardless if quite brave.

And if you think “the foetuses will fight back”, you are incredibly unfamiliar with foetal development at 9 weeks.

I asked a question,i didn’t suggest in my comment that the foetus would fight back.As to to the development stage at nine weeks i’m familiar at what stage the foetus would be at.So please don’t try to belittle by accusing me of ignorance.

I asked a question,i didn’t suggest in my comment that the foetus would fight back.As to to the development stage at nine weeks i’m familiar at what stage the foetus would be at.So please don’t try to belittle by accusing me of ignorance.

Sorry about double post.

Working in a clinic often leads to harassment and death threats, unfortunately. Most pro lifers seem to realise people are unsympathetic if they target the women, so they often vent their anger on the doctors.

Basically Nick has made the point…

Drs who choose to work in Planned Parenthood in the USA are regularly identified personally and have their pictures, home adresses and phone numbers added to websites or fliers by pro-life groups who call them murderers and encourage their supporters to harass them.

They regualrly recieve death threats via mail and phone calls, are stalked, have their homes and cars vandalised, are verbally attacked in public, other parents confront their kids at school, security escorts, no social media outlets, unregistered phone numbers and cars.

These professionals will tell you looking under your car at the end of the day for cut breaks or explosives becomes routine.

But isn’t that the whole point of “choice”.You make your choice and either suffer or benefit from it.There will always be different veiw points.Sadly some feel only violence is the way to express their veiw.
My initial point is as i said her body her choice.However Idon’t see the bravery in aborting a foetus the size of a peanut.But that is my veiw different from yours but no less valid.

@Nick, well aware of who George Tiller “The Baby Killer” was. The man murdered viable foetuses for profit he also performed partial birth abortions, he was an animal.

No one should have to face death threats for following the demands of their conscience. I’m sorry you don’t see doing what you believe is right to be brave.

So he deserved to die, Cian? Very pro life of you!

Nick i don’t agree with you,what do you mean your sorry?.Sorry someone has a different opinion than you?well i suggest you grow up lots of people wouldn’t agree with you.Don’t spend your life being sorry.

Did I say anywhere in my comment he deserved to die??

You were trumpeting him as a brave man when he was a barbaric baby killing animal, he aborted babies which could survive outside the womb he also dealt in partial birth abortions and he did it all for profit. He was not brave he was a beast. There was a reason his was only 1 of 3 clinics in the states that carried out these practices because it was so inhumane.

@Nick and for you to celebrate him as some sort of advocate for Women’s health rights is laughable, he took the lives of more females than he could ever have helped.

American law only allows for late term abortions for maternal health reasons or fatal foetal abnormalities. He performed abortions in accordance with the law. But I guess it’s easy to say women dying from health concerns is a fine if you’ll never be a pregnant woman.

And I’m not apologising that you disagree with me, Norman. I feel genuine pity that you don’t have the empathy to respect people who disagree with you who stand up for their beliefs.

Nick sorry but either you chose not to read my initial comment or just chose to ignore what i said.I’ll remind you “her body her choice”.As for my lack of empathy where have i shown a lack of empathy.Last point when your getting down off your moral high horse be careful not to slip.

I’ll do my best! You take care now.

Nick he performed late term abortions and partial birth abortions on Women who discovered their baby would have some sort of defect, nothing to do with saving the mothers life. He also aborted healthy viable babies by having fellow doctors diagnose women as “temporarily depressed” (because a late term/partial birth abortion will work wonders for ones mental health). If all that isn’t animalistic enough for you he also performed the procedures on girls as young as 13!

What a sick and vile individual he was.

It’s not up to a medical practicioner to debate reproductive rights law. Their sole responsibility is the health, care and to abide by the wishes of their paitents.

As Nick said the Dr followed the Law, did so in the face of great personal risk and doing so cost him his life.

The abortion issue can be debated in the government by the politcal parites and in courts with barristers/judges, absolutely with freedom of speech and all the passion that the issue warrents.

Oddly enough, the only resources for the claims that he got women diagnosed as “temporarily depressed” are pro life sites.

And yes, defects such as fatal foetal abnormalities are indeed legal to perform in most of the world. Unfortunately not in Ireland, despite the bravery of the amazing TFMR ladies and though they have the support of a majority of the Irish people.

Also feel I should point out a 13 year old is in all cases a rape victim…

its nice the way these people put the life of a unborn child ahead of the life and well being of the women, or the lives or well being of any existing children the women my have should she die due to pregnancy.

Such lovely lovely people,

What would you say to the reintroduction of the death penalty for the rapist?

Nope. But you know what I wouldn’t do? Reinforce the message that the rapist or abuser gave to a woman. Rapists tell women their bodies aren’t their own, that the rapist gets to force the use of it. The legal system should not back this message up by telling women “sorry, your body still isn’t your own, we get to control who uses it.”

nick beard i have thoroughly enjoyed reading your comments on this article. very rare to have intelligent and sensible input in the comments section. if only everyone had your way of thinking!

To be honest, I’d be all for the reintroduction of the death penalty for the rapist. Why should this country pay for him to live the rest of his life when he’s a waste of space?

I don’t think Ireland would be crying because of a shortage of rapists!

Shhh… Not the issue, my friend.

just a quick update, I got this quote from another article: Daire Fitzgerald, 51, travelled from Dublin to take part. He said: “I was shocked to hear that Marie Stopes is opening in Ireland. There is no need. It is just horrible that they have moved here – people on both sides of the border do not want this.”…….. it would seem from the comments here she has a false view and I find it quite ignorant.

just a quick update, I got this quote from another article: Daire Fitzgerald, 51, travelled from Dublin to take part. He said: “I was shocked to hear that Marie Stopes is opening in Ireland. There is no need. It is just horrible that they have moved here – people on both sides of the border do not want this.”…….. it would seem from the comments here she has a false view on things as people don’t seem to care and I find it quite ignorant that she clearly has done no research. have a referendum and see who doesn’t want it then we’ll know for sure

I love the journal – anyone who doesn’t agree with you is obviously inferior to you, eh Stephen? Or lord Stephen?

I support freedom, legalising abortion is another freedom we havent had , Whether its gun ownership, drugs for personal use or anything else , people should be free to make choices, if you dont agree with abortion dont have one.

And actually emperor sounds better than lord, or grand wizard , either will do

You support murdering children who have nobody to stand up for them. Shame!

The slovenly layabouts are the lefties who SUPPORT abortion no? Isn’t that your usual gripe?

No martin, those are the delusional layabouts , ill give the lefties one thing, they may lack worth ethic , but atleast have the education to understand this is a good thing

Can’t see ANY reason to question abortion. Calls the other side ill-informed. Good work Stephen.

Stephen ‘Martin’ is a proper noun therefore the initial letter should be in the upper case. There is no such word as ‘ill’ I assume you mean ‘I will’. When you write ‘worth ethic’ do you mean ‘work ethic’? There is no such word as ‘atleast’ do you mean ‘at least’? You seem to be of the opinion that you can insert an apostrophe at random and without any consideration for correct spacing. All sentences should be completed with the appropriate punctuation mark – in this case I would suggest a full stop. I can certainly understand how the presence of unwanted children could be an inconvenience to you considering your lack of attention to detail but I do not understand why you would wish to have them killed.

Yes, Patrick. Stephen’s options are clearly either to allow Irish women to access abortions or else he will single handedly have to care for all of them! Nothing in between!

I rofled

“Whether its gun ownership, drugs for personal use or anything else … ”

Well that’s a load of crap Stephen. We live in a society where there are norms and the law should represent those norms. You cannot for example have the freedom to murder someone (as the extreme example), as our society decided that this not acceptable to the vast majority of us. In a similar regard we pay taxes, make damaging and addictive drugs illegal, and we don’t let people have abortions (incorrectly and against the will of the people at the current time IMO).
If you are an outright anarchist (as opposed to a small government libertarian type) then I suppose your post follows that pretty accurately, but otherwise saying that you are pro-freedom is probably doing yourself an injustice.

Dennis: ” We live in a society where there are norms and the law should represent those norms.”

Social norms used to dictate that women couldn’t vote; and it used to be socially normal in England to see signs that said ‘No blacks or Irish’. Not any more, thank god. Sometimes, society needs to move one – unquestioning devotion to societal norms retards the progress of humanity.

Erik,

You are making my point for me. Changes in law FOLLOW changes in Social Norms. The laws against slavery came about because people found it unacceptable, the laws prohibiting the “freedom” to own slaves. Other freedoms such as the ability for employers to only hire WASP males below the age of 25 are also now outlawed by our laws due to changes in social acceptance.

My point in reply to Stephen was that he is saying that he is pro-choice because he is “pro-freedom”… which is ridiculous. He is pro-choice (and legalising drugs) because he is a libertarian (from the sounds of it) and detests government intervention. My point is that laws (ALL LAWS) in some way curtail freedom, and that the only truly free society is a completely 100% anarchic one… which would be a very scary place to live.

I never once said that we should not try to change social norms if they are not compatible with our own world views. Social norms for the most part change slowly and naturally from generation to generation in response to various pressures on the society, some internal and some external. The real interesting things happen when a social norm is starting to be reversed and the side with the “old viewpoint” (e.g. “pro-life”) are trying to push against the tide.

The strawman of “No Blacks, No Irish” is a bit much!

FREE HAT!

Your kidding me right?

You think the Irish government will increase the train price to the north which will affect at a max a few hundred women who might travel there and they’ll ignore the hundreds of thousands of people who travel the same train for work etc.

Seriously, you’d want to take that tinfoil hat off,

lol no humour allowed i see ….the main thing is that it should be available in ireland ……this country still tries to rule by canon law its time to realise that people have the right to choose and make choises that impact on their life so while its great that abortion is available in belfast .surely its time to ake it available here

No need to worry about that staff at Irish rail took another 25% pay cut this year

That’s what happens in a democratic country. Offended by a protest but not by the casual extermination of life?

I’m not sure you can class women who have had to get the approval of two doctors who claim her life is immediately and substantially threatened as making a “casual” decision……

That’s not what anyone is protesting though. Because there’s a small niche where it’s undoubtly justified, doesn’t mean you can focus exclusively on that niche to justify the wider concept.

It is what people are protesting. Marie Stopes will only be performing medical abortions up to 9 weeks where women have had the approval of two doctors who claim her life is immediately and substantially threatened.

I do think I can use that small niche if it’s the only women who will be able to access abortion at this clinic. I hope most people bother to educate themselves a bit better than you before protesting!

Ah, so it is. NI limit is shorter than the rest of the UK’s. I withdraw my objection.

Cian, there’s nothing “casual” about the decision a woman makes when it comes to having an abortion. But not being a woman, you’ll never understand… Hence your ignorant comment.