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Dublin: 12 °C Sunday 19 May, 2013

Column: Why Ireland must ban all smacking of children

Smacking is on the same spectrum as violent abuse – and only serves to legitimise lashing out, writes Kate Ferguson.

Kate Katharina Ferguson

TEXAN JUDGE WILLIAM Adams enters his daughter’s bedroom. On the wall next to the computer in the corner is a poster of Bart Simpson writing lines on a blackboard. In front of Judge Adams is his daughter’s bed, covered in a red and black spread.

His daughter Hillary is wearing thin grey pants and what looks like a pyjama top.
“Bend over the bed”, he says, quietly in his southern drawl, “Bend over the bed”. She’s whimpering now. “No. Dad”, she pleads.

“BEND OVER THE BED.”

He’s swinging a belt.

He thrashes her on her thighs before shouting once more “BEND OVER THE BED”.

She folds herself over the bed. She’s cowering, weeping, screaming. He keeps thrashing her. Crack, crack, crack. She’s flailing so he presses down on her back, to force her onto her stomach. He strikes her again and again and again.

He moves away. She sits up. Her shoulders continue to jerk forward; still flinching from the attack. She starts wailing. Her father stands before her and regards her for a second. Then he lashes out again. With each crack of the blow, there’s a gasp as she tries to find air. Her mother, from the corner of the room watches on and tells her daughter to “take it… like a grown woman”.

Hillary’s crime was to download music illegally from the internet.

The abuse continues for six minutes. The footage emerged in November when Hillary, who had secretly set up a webcam in her room to record her father’s ongoing abuse decided to release it on the internet.

Warning: this video contains scenes that some may find disturbing


YouTube/shoehedgie

Though he’s being investigated (and was suspended with full pay) there’s a good chance that William Adams won’t be held to account for his actions because of the time that has elapsed since his crime; the footage was taken in November 2004 when Hillary was 16. Judge Adams and Hillary’s mother have since split up, the latter claiming that she was “completely brainwashed and controlled” in her marriage. Hillary and her mother now have a good relationship and have appeared on chat shows together.

Alarmingly, there are many who, having watched the clip, disagree that Adams is even guilty of abuse.

While Judge Adams was abusing rather than ‘spanking’ his child, the case illustrates why it is socially important and morally necessary to protect children under law.

The Minister for Children, Frances Fitzgerald is considering bringing in a blanket ban on smacking children.

She should do so as soon as possible.

Most of the generation before me was beaten. A shocking number were sexually abused.

In Ireland today, parents still smack their children in the middle of the street. In February of this year, a group of students from IT Sligo spent an hour in three local shopping centres and recorded 52 incidents of parents smacking their children. That’s almost one case per minute.

The purpose of a law is to create a boundary of social propriety. Broadly speaking, when a democratic society prohibits something, it sends a signal out about what is right and wrong.

Smacking children is wrong. It is not necessarily abusive, or worthy of criminal pursuit but it is still wrong.

Spare the rod

Many who were smacked grow up to say “well, it never did me any harm”. Many of them use this as an excuse to smack their own children, claiming that “spare the rod, spoil the child”.

There is no evidence to suggest that smacking a child is beneficial. As children develop, they learn to model their behaviour on that of the people around them. Researchers have found that children who are smacked are more likely to grow up to be violent themselves.

Smacking a child is a poor parental strategy. It is a lazy, uncreative way to stop undesirable behaviour and leads to long-term damage to both parent and child.

I have heard the weak argument expressed that children under three have failed to reach the “age of reason” and can therefore only respond to discipline in the form of corporal punishment.

While it is itself highly contestable that children under the age of three cannot “reason”, this argument falls through because it is certain that children from the moment they enter the world, copy the behaviour of the people around them. Unless violence is desirable, children’s exposure to it should be prohibited.

Supposing a toddler lacks the capacity to understand that throwing food from their high chair is wrong. If he or she is smacked, they still don’t make the connection. Instead they learn that when their parents are upset, or angry, they respond by lashing out.

Temptation

“But what if a child is running into the middle of the road and a car is coming and you lash out to stop them?” I hear people cry.

This is okay, you will not be prosecuted.

This is an uncomfortable topic for plenty of people. Many ‘good’ parents smack their children and admittedly the long-term damage might be minimal. Nevertheless, the message is ineffective and the means in itself infantile and unsophisticated.

Parenting is not easy. The temptation to smack will arise. In the majority of cases, at least a handful of smacks will be administered.

Where the law comes in is in changing perceptions. The fact that many people in America and beyond can watch a video as horrendous as that of Judge Adams’ assault of his daughter and claim that it doesn’t constitute abuse is utterly alarming.

It shows that laws – like parents – must set clear boundaries. Physical punishment is wrong. Apart from the unusual case where a child is innately violent (not having learnt the behaviour) and when a parent must use force in self -defence, it is unambiguously unacceptable.

In eighteen of the forty-seven member states of the Council of Europe, it is illegal to inflict physical punishment on children in all settings, including the home.

According to the Irish Times, enforcing the same ban here is problematic because of the constitutional guarantees afforded the family.

It is ironic that in an attempt to protect a child from an abusive family, the rights of that same family could be infringed. It is the same kind of logic that protected the institution of the church over the abuses it perpetrated against its flock.

Kate Katharina Ferguson is an Irish journalist working in Austria. She writes atkatekatharina.com and you can follow her on Twitter at @KateKatharina.

Read previous columns from Kate Katharina Ferguson on TheJournal.ie here>

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Comments (172 Comments)

  • There’s a big difference between a smack and an act of violence.

    Reply
    • Really? Where’s the line? How do you quantify it?

      Reply
    • the line is a smack for a child on the bum is a hole lot different the beating a child. If you need that line pointed out to you Damocles then you are in trouble kiddo!
      Bit of common sense please. Stupid comment.

      Reply
    • No, not really.

      What you’re suggesting is that there are degrees of violence such that there is a line below which lies a smack on the bum, presumably a painful one, and above which lies a smack across the chops.

      So where is the line? Exactly where?

      At what degree of pain and violence does it become unacceptable?

      Reply
    • A smack IS an act of violence. Any toddler who could find the words to describe it would tell you so. I was regularly beaten as a child and I do not remember it serving any purpose except terrifying me. I never lay my hands on my children and they have grown up to be very fine adults. My grandchildren do not know either what a smack is. I trust they never will.

      Reply
    • I don’t see any problem with smacking children. I also do not believe that smacking children when young will lead them to become violent young adults. I have two girls and the eldest 3 gets smacked when being overly bold. Our youngest is 1 so i dont think she knows yet when she is doing wrong so smacking her would have no effect, only to frighten her. However, what that judge did was not smacking. I view that to be physical abuse. Even if the daughter did something wrong, she’s 16 years old. I think smacking can be used effectfully to chastise / correct children under 5, not teenagers. The judge continued to beat her for minutes. That to me is assault. A smack is in the moment and a once off relating to the action the child has just done wrong.

      Reply
    • Actually ye should speak to teachers in secondary schools on this one and get their opinions. Teachers can point out the kids to ye that were smacked as young children and corrected at home. They’re the normal quietish average students. The children that didn’t get smacked stick out. They’re the noisy spoilt brats who don’t pay attention and have gotten away with murder at home. When they get into trouble at school, the parents are the type that say “oh my Johnny is a good boy, he wouldn’t do that , he’s never in trouble, it’s your school that is the problem”. The certainly is a trending problem developing.

      Reply
    • If you hit another adult you can be arrested so how does it make it ok for an adult to hit a child. Some behaviours are natural part of growing up such as tantrums acting out but it up to us as adults to teach and enlighten our children that some behaviours are unacceptable. Children need to be taught how to deal with their emotions or situations that they find difficult by talking to them not hitting them. Hit only demonstrated an adults loss of control on a situation and only teaches a child that hitting is ok (talk about mixed messages) I’m a childcare worker but a father of 2 boys and have never hit out at my boys and their doing fine, I talk to them and treat them with respect and I can see that rubbing off on them when they are playing with others. Hitting only plants fear in a child and knocks their confidence, how is that ok?

      Reply
    • A very big difference mad Taoiseach indeed.
      Somebody has lost control of themselves in writing this article.
      Enough said.

      Reply
    • Damocles, there are indeed degrees of violence, and the law of this country clearly recognises this in permitting ‘reasonable force’ to be used in certain circumstances.

      As was pointed out above, if you need it to be pointed out to you where the difference is between a mum giving a toddler a single smack on the back of the hand and the violent beating that judge gave his daughter then you are indeed in trouble.

      I would suggest that in terms of smacking a child, ‘reasonable force’ could mean using an open hand (no form of implement or closed fist) to certain defined areas of the body (hand and bum?) with a force insufficient to leave any mark other than a temporary reddening, and with no more than 1-2 smacks.

      Not saying that there should be ‘smack police’ but guidance for parents as to what is considered acceptable would be a good thing.

      At present we have a generation of children a significant minority of whom are out of control. These are the children with zero respect for authority figures, who openly defy parents, teachers and indeed gardai because they know there are no real consequences for their actions. These are the children who when they are told off by the aforementioned adults turn round and say “F**k off! What are you going to do about it?”….

      And yes, it is a relatively recent phenomenon which has emerged since corporal punishment was outlawed…

      Reply
    • As you pointed out above? How many accounts do you use here?

      if you need it to be pointed out to you where the difference is between a mum giving a toddler a single smack on the back of the hand and the violent beating that judge gave his daughter then you are indeed in trouble.

      If you believe that was my question, then it is you who are “in trouble”. People seem to be suggesting two things here.

      Firstly that there is a level below which hitting a child is acceptable, but seem unable to quantify where that level is. This seems to suggest that they do not know, their argument actually being “It’s alright if I do it.” I find that unacceptable, as I’m sure the law would.

      Secondly people seem to be suggesting that there are two parenting methods, hit the child so that they submit to authority or indulge the child so that they submit to no authority. That seems to me to be flawed, there has to be a middle ground whereby a child can grow up into a reasonable person without being struck by their parents, as indeed I was so raised. There are a small few people who seem to be suggesting this may be the case, but they are being largely ignored as the argument polarises.

      To me, it is unacceptable to hit small defenceless children to get my point across. I’m aware that this means that some people are going to think that I am some sort of hippy as a result of that. However, as these people will also think that it is acceptable to hit small defenceless children, I feel I needn’t worry too much what they think of me.

      Reply
    • Hang on here. What Judge Adam’s did to his daughter Hillary in the video was to take a weapon to a 16 year old girl because she downloaded illegal music from the net, her mother just watched and told her to “take it like a grown woman”. She was just as bad.
      If he felt the “crime” deserved punnishment there were other, better, more appropriate ways of going about. The obvious ones that come to mind are grounding or removing Hillary’s access to the computer for a period of time but to take a weapon and beat the ever loving (I use the term loosely here) shite out of your own daughter is completely unacceptable.
      Does that mean there is a distinction between beating a child and smacking a child? Yes, I think so. First of all nobody could or should advocate beating a child, and certainly not with any sort of weapon. If a child is smacked the whole objective isn’t to hurt the child, as everyone here seems to agree that would be wrong. Let me explain. I have 2 sons, as kids I have played and wrestled around the floor with them (they won), during which they could accidently take smacks , bangs, thumps and wallops and laugh with delight. But for the rare times they were smacked, and they were so rare I can’t think of any, it would have been a wee tap, the purpose of which is to say “whatever you did was extremely wrong, please don’t ever do it again” where sitting them down and saying the same wouldn’t or didn’t work. Maybe having told them umpteen times not to run onto the road they still did. As they got older it became easier to talk to them and explain things to them, punnishments became groundings etc and the idea of smacking just became redundant, although now that they’re in their 20′s I’m tempted to knock their heads together at times.
      Once again if you smack a wee child make it an extremely rare event, ensure you basically “tap” the child and don’t hurt them, there’s no need.

      Reply
    • The line is if it leaves a mark on the child’s skin. Any mark. I slight tap on the bum will teach a child much better than a hard slap.
      It is their parents disapproval that teaches kids right from wrong much more so than pain of being slapped.

      Reply
    • @Falstaff Oldcastle: That is an outrageous claim that secondary school teachers can pick out children who have been i.e. average students. There are a myriad of factors that explain behaviour and to solely attribute to being slapped when they were younger is nonsense. Have you any longitudinal research to back up your claim or is it anecdotal? I also many parents disclose to teachers whether they have slapped their child when they were young. If you’re going to make a claim defending smacking, at least make a rational one. Personally, it galls me how many commenters resort to smacking here and immediately dismiss alternative methods of parenting as suggested very helpfully by meninchildcareirl.

      Reply
    • mattoid 05/08/12 #

      Err Damocles, I never said I pointed it out, I said “as was pointed out”, ie. by Randy…

      Reply
    • Damocles…
      I youf don’t know how to quantify this simple term then you might be well advised to participate in parenting classes.

      Reply
    • JayK 05/08/12 #

      You can tell s stupid argument extending its conclusions. Can I hit other peoples children? Obviously I’ll follow the (myriad of conflicting) criteria that defines “acceptable” violence, and we wouldn’t want the kids growing up to be feral. Or is that another arbitrary line? What about teachers? Priests? Guards?

      What if some fool is acting up in the pub? He can surely take a few slaps better than a small child. Just one or two, and just enough to cause sore reddening. I’m sure he’ll calmly understand his behaviour was unacceptable and we’ll both be better for the experience.

      I always figured Supernanny beat the shit out of the kids off camera. How else is there discipline young children? Burn them?

      Reply
    • mattoid 05/08/12 #

      JayK,
      Please drop the hysteria and try and keep my comment in context. Nobody is suggesting that “beating the shit” out of a child is acceptable.
      The argument about the drunken bowsie in the pub doesn’t have any relevance either – we don’t have a responsibility to bring up the drunken bowsie and teach him right from wrong or what behaviour is safe or unsafe, but a parent is tasked with doing exactly that for their children.

      Reply
    • That’s funny Falstaff..
      My sister has never laid a hand on any of her kids, the report cards she gets back at the end of every year speak extremely highly of my nieces and nephews behaviour. My eldest niece won a couple of awards in secondary school because she shines out as a model student.. Everywhere they go as a family people comment on how well behaved her kids are.
      Far from the spoilt brat behaviour that apparently define those who weren’t slapped for discipline..

      My sister uses the reason approach or a certain tone of voice that means business. It’s always worked for her, I wonder how come others can’t manage it?

      With my parents my mother could scream, shout, slap, punch and hit me with stuff – all it did was mess up our relationship..
      Now.. When my dad gave out to me.. He would take me aside, speak in a really quiet tone, and tell me that I had really disappointed him / upset him / let him down.

      Guess what? When my dad gave out to me I learned from it and it sank in, when my mother gave out to me I just resented it, and her. I never learned a damn thing from being hit. I learned a lot more from being told what I had done wrong and why it was wrong – as I got older I was encouraged to think about my actions – same way my sisters kids are..

      Reply
    • Holy moly! Hysteria Police!!!!!!!
      Ok lets try and keep this LOGICAL

      #1- smacking a misbehaving child IS NOT CHILD ABUSE

      #2- Control is lost when you lose your temper with a child. they are a child after all.

      #3- beating, abusing, battering etc. have been terms thrown around here. Once again if you folks cant see that line, DONT HAVE CHILDREN!

      #4-Get off the political correctness BS!

      #5- What do you think your dear old Granny would say about all this? I think she would be pragmatic. God bless her.

      Reply
    • Damocles 06/08/12 #

      I honestly can’t tell whether people are wilfully misinterpreting what I’m saying or they don’t understand through stupidity.

      I see that there is a line, but that this line exists in different places for different people. It’s easy to say that a gentle smack is below the line and that taking a belt to someone is above the line. These are two very contrasting acts. The difficulty comes when you judge exactly where that line is, what are the pain/damage levels directly above and below the line? How is it determined and by whom? Invariably it will be determined by a tired and angry parent who is in no position to judge. Better to not hit children at all, IMO.

      Reply
    • JayK 06/08/12 #

      Indeed, mattoid completely missed both points of mine he tried to refute. Really, interpreting my Supernanny comment as a serious suggestion to “beat the shit” out of kids is baffling stupid.

      Look at it this way. Experienced child-rearing specialists, child psychologists, professional sociologists all agree that beating children is unhelpful and destructive, only used as a tool by parents too uninformed or impatient or uncaring to raise their kids properly. The scientifically proven effects include mental health damage, lower IQ, worsening behaviour. Meanwhile, advocates from TheJournal comments section have trouble following a logical thread between three short paragraphs.

      Now I’ve explained why my standpoint is right, and why yours is wrong (although you evidently didn’t understand it). If you still want to beat your kids, you’re just an ignorant bully.

      http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/videos/news/spanking_070212.html

      Reply
    • mattoid 06/08/12 #

      JayK

      A light smack on the back of the hand is not “beating a child”!

      I think I totally understood your posts, and I think your use of emotive language like that above is completely over the top and unhelpful in this debate, as was the ridiculous analogy of a drunk in a pub!

      Reply
  • I have just watched the video attached to this article it shows brutality inflicted on a child by her parents, there is a huge difference between this and a smack on the hand in a shopping centre by an exhausted parent.
    the video was in Texas where they have the highest rate of executions in the US, no wonder violence is so acceptable there.
    children have to be protected but they have to be parented, many parents no longer have any control over their children and everyone in society suffers as a result.
    Parenting classes needs to be part of a school programme and not learned through mistakes or from brutal parents.
    The type of parenting in this video is never acceptable and cannot be condoned

    Reply
    • reds 05/08/12 #

      @geraldine-the most important part of you comment there- “an exhausted parent”. Just because the parent has run out of patience with a child, it doesn’t justify them smacking them, regardless of wether it’s a “little tap” or not. This says more about the intelligence of the parent rather than the obedience of the child.

      Lead by example!

      Reply
    • Oh cos if you’re exhausted it’s clearly ok to take it out on your small person…. You do realise, if you speak to your children on their level and explain things at different levels as they develop, this does actually work. I don’t believe in smacking children. Put yourself in their position and think of what the actual perception of it is. Sure they might not commit the ‘offence’ again, but is that because they understand why or because they know they get slapped if they do?!

      Reply
  • This topic was covered a few weeks ago with a very divided opinion whether right or wrong. I will still be parenting my 3 children in the best way possible because there is no golden rule book on parenting. Every society is different and will always be , that is one of the reasons why the world is so amazing because everybody is different

    Reply
    • Everyone is different your right but all children are the same , vulnerable ! Weaker ,smaller , so because I’m bigger more “developed” ????? It’s ok to lash out ? A small minded action for small minded people ! And before the crap there my kids I’ll rase them as I wish Starts flowing ! Bullshit there people and should not subject to any form of physical violence by one of these bullies .
      You don’t agree ? How about I swing by and smack you about a bit !
      No sorry that would be wrong ?
      Would it ?

      Reply
    • Gerry u should probably go back to a writing class before you try a rant. Most educated people understand the difference between a slap and abuse and yes they are my kids and i will raise them as i see fit regardless of anybody elses opinion.

      Reply
    • Ha !!!! Is that it !! Writing class !!
      Your educated because you lay there for a moment and helped conceive and now you believe that the end result a child is “yours” to beat as you wish ?
      Hate to break it to you but that child has all the same rights as you , one of them being not subject to violence ! Even if it is only a little bit and makes you feel better ! Or is it bitter ? Shoot there i go again . Ok I promise to learn to write if your learn how to articulate yourself with “your” kids without beating them

      Reply
    • I got a few clips when I was a wild young lad.and I am glad I did.I would never behave myself otherwise. When we were in secondary school in the 90,s we totally ignored the female teachers and broke their hearts.we were like angels when some of the male teachers turned up however cause some of them thumped the he’ll out of us.I wouldn’t slap a young girl as I believe they can be punished in other-ways but the only thing young lads fear is a bit of pain .most of them anyway.I wouldn’t like to see a total ban .if anything kids will benefit themselves from a light slap every now and then when deserved

      Reply
    • Gerry is completely right here. Just because you conceived a child, you have no right to hit them. It’s an uneducated and lazy way of parenting and DOES effect them in later life. I am a mother and have a wonderful son who never misbehaves and has never been hit. There are so many methods to bringing up a child to be a gentle kind caring person without the need for violence of any kind.

      Reply
  • Myyyyyy God. I resisted the temptation to view the video above until just now. The abuse is incredible. Not only did this episode not achieve anything, it has most likely caused this girl to be afraid of her parents. I can’t imagine a situation in which I would ever want my children to be afraid of me or anything that I could be capable of. Jesus. It’s disgraceful that anyone can have children but that you need a license for a dog … This “judge” and his wife should be arrested and charged with battery. Who needs parents like this ? Any form of physical abuse on defenseless children is jut wrong. Just wrong.

    Reply
  • So the 2 kids are behaving due to fear of being put under a freezing cold shower. That is just wrong and troubling. I wonder if he is delighted with himself for his loophole round smacking. Overly harsh forms of discipline falls under emotional abuse.

    Reply
  • I’ve seen this before totally horrific but it’s not smacking, my dad would give me one hard smack and it would do the job he only ever did it max of 5 times in my life when my mam was frazzled with me and I had genuinely been very bold it hasn’t changed my perspective of him at all and of course I still love him but if the belt had been taken to me I would never respect my parents again. My dad would tell stories about being beaten black and blue, tied to tables etc for the day when he was a child I shudder to think of it…..

    Reply
  • The use of American rednecks to pass comment on Irish society. The use of the church rather than workhouses indicate the presence of an agenda and thus the article is not written with good analysis but seeks to persuade using emotional blackmail.

    Reply
  • can’t believe that that man will probably not face charges after violently beating his then 16year daughter! it shouldn’t matter if it happened 8years ago or not the video is hard evidence. and her mother saying she was Brian washed is no excuse for joining in and activities poor girl too. there is a difference between violently beating a child with a belt and a light smack on the hand. i got the wooden spoon when i was a child and every memory of it is bad of course as it was a weapon used against me when im sure there were others ways for my mother to get her point across. i still love my mother to bits and am very close to her and if anything it has thought me never to use this form of discipline on my own children. i wouldn’t go telling other people how to parent their children but yes there is a line and how do we establish what is acceptable and what’s not…

    Reply
  • I have 3 children under 5. we dont really smack the 5 yr olds any more, unless they’ve started to go over board all together. We give a smack on the bum when the bold corner is not working. People who think it’s an act of violence really need to get they’re head examined. or have children themselves. People will always have different views on this, just avoid calling people bad parents. I dont think a child should be smacked after about 5/6. logic will generally prevail, but sometimes it could be warranted.

    Reply
  • Careful now..

    Reply
  • what Judge Adams committed was an assault, plain and simple.
    If he did it to a family member or another public citizen in public he would be arrested and charged. As a parent, which i am; if you need to do it behind closed doors so you cannot be judged it is most probably immoral.

    Reply
  • As a child I had ADD as a kid it was not picked up on till I started working with Child with Special Needs and picked up on it myself. My father use to kill me I remember been smacked and bet for not remembering spellings,tables etc.Even had a teacher call me stupid as a result and also been told I was adopted at the age of 7 lead to huge problems low self esteem and confidence that would later affect me as a adult .I rember first starting work as a nervous 18 year old that lacked self esteem and confident all that would be affected more when at the age of 21 my birth parents would reject me when I went looking for them. As a child the world can be a very strange and sometime frightening place. Children have a great ability to hold and retain information. My daughter for example having a mother for another county is learning two language when you take them time to talk to a child and explain things to them they have a better grasp of how the world works and what’s right and wrong . Now that more than a smack every will. By smacking your child you are telling them that it’s ok to use violence to solve problems which is wrong.

    Reply
  • Heated issue and there are no definite answers, I myself was hammered for 10 years of my childhood, for literally nothing ( walking on the grass at front of house, 10 mins late from school, dropping a mug etc etc ) I am now a guy who would be reluctant to smack a child, a child who probably does not yet understand right and wrong, in general kids are spoilt now, so unless your child as some disorder ADHD etc, the blame lies firmly at the parents feet, I would be more inclined to punish them by taking away the things they love most, liberty, Nintendo etc etc….. BBUUUUUUUUUTTTT on the other hand, there is a generation of teenagers who dont give a flying carumba about anyone, what’s to be done with them? Or is it too late?? And is everything I said just fantasy and should these teens have been disciplined physically??? We will never know .

    Reply
  • Was smacked as a kid, never did me any harm. Parents should be spared self-righteous preaching on how to raise their children, especially by strangers!

    Reply
    • reds 05/08/12 #

      What exactly does “it never did me any harm” mean?

      So you weren’t put in hospital, left with physical scars? That should be the way but without the smacking.

      I was smacked as a child and while “it never did me any harm”, I felt very unloved at the time and don’t really have a close “bond” with my parents.

      It can cause emotional damage that the child might never tell you about. It’s also just unnecessary pain.

      Reply
  • As against smacking as I am I still find some of the opiniins expressed here a bit simplistic. Violence against any child is wrong however a loving parent using a mild deterant (smack) to discipline an errant toddler who is putting themselves or others at risk is not child abuse. Balance, where a child is loved and thought respect for itself and others is essential in a world where authority has let our young people down.

    Reply
    • Quite agree. Pointless writing “opinion” pieces on matters such as parenthood, when you haven’t the experience to formulate an opinion in the first place.

      This “opinion piece” is knee jerk nonsense. It fails to account for the majority of competent and loving parents who use a very rare tap as a timely remonstration, such as warning of a hot surface, a busy road, etc.

      If the author ever does have kids, they may well be the type that make you leave the restaurant early when they’re “expressing” themselves, and go on to spend twenty years in college “finding themselves”, adept in Ancient Greek history, less so in anything that will actually make them all living.

      Reply
    • re: “It fails to account for the majority of competent and loving parents who use a very rare tap as a timely remonstration, such as warning of a hot surface, a busy road, etc.“

      What about this paragraph?

      “But what if a child is running into the middle of the road and a car is coming and you lash out to stop them?” I hear people cry.
      This is okay, you will not be prosecuted.
      This is an uncomfortable topic for plenty of people. Many ‘good’ parents smack their children and admittedly the long-term damage might be minimal. Nevertheless, the message is ineffective and the means in itself infantile and unsophisticated.”

      I have no idea what the connection between not smacking your child and them becoming in adept in Ancient Greek history is. Maybe you could explain?

      Reply
  • I was smacked as a child, even had the wooden spoon used a few times. I would never in a million years call my parents violent people. My parents were amazing. They never smacked me in anger. They would calmly inform me that because I had been genuinely bold, that I had earned a smack, sometimes as many as three, sometimes just the one with the wooden spoon. That would be the end of it. I didn’t build up any resentment or begin to believe that violence served a purpose, I can’t say I even consider these smacks to be violent acts, they were simply another tool in my parent’s arsenal to deal with the many times that I misbehaved. It was effective and only applied where other punishments weren’t working. It was also a punishment I did grow too old for eventually. When it happened my parents would repeat the cliché: “This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you.” I didn’t at the time but I believe that now. I also believe I deserved a smack everytime I got one. Smacks are overused and too often delivered due to a parent’s frustration rather than due to a child’s misbehaving, but I don’t think a ban is a good idea. Parent’s need all the tools available to them, but they should be used wisely and with restraint.

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    • Again just because it happened you doesn’t make it right. How is using violence or even hinting to a child that sometimes violence is the only way, helpful? It just isnt and never will be…slapping, hitting,harming,physically harming someone to make a point is wrong. End off story. People say its only a little spank from a loving parent, your teaching your child that instead of communicating sometimes it’s easier to get physical. It’s a physical act to show authority, it’s violence, you may only be lightly spanking their bottom but it still sends the same WRONG messages.

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  • We were never smacked growing up, I don’t know but I just can’t see myself smacking a child.

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  • Would the parents in this article who beat their kids accept that child’s right to use whatever violence they deem appropriate against you when they grow up? One poster quoted from scripture ‘to spare the rod is to spoil the child’ – what about ‘an eye for an eye’?

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  • Bit of a vague article, “research has shown….”, i wouldn’t mind knowing which study proved that smacking leads to violent behaviour.

    Also, there was no need for that video, its irrelevant.

    That said, I agree with the article overall. Smacking is lazy and unproductive, im not a parent, but i see from friends and family that it is perfectly possible to discipline a child and teach them right or wrong without hitting them.

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    • Hi Adrian, I included the video because while I was researching this, I began to read comments people had left under the video. Lots of commenters disagreed that Judge Adams was being abusive and claimed that he had every right to discipline his child in this way. I was really shocked by that and I began to wonder where Irish society draws the line.

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  • P Mc D 05/08/12 #

    Watching that video made me feel physically sick. Any kind of physical abuse like that is so wrong. What happened to open communication with your kids when you disagree on something?!

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  • This is one of those situations where, if you haven’t had a child, you just don’t know.

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    • I get this comment a lot about a myriad of things “Ah wait til you have children”, “Get back to me when you have kids”, “You won’t know til you have kids”. Irks me excessively. May not have kids, but I’m entitled to an opinion. Plus, whether we have kids or not, we all have one thing in common; we were all children at one point, and it’s most probable that our experiences then will assist in forming our adult opinions now.

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    • Yes, you’re of course entitled to your opinion. However, it is uneducated. Raising a child is the hardest thing I have ever had to do, and is easily one of the hardest things anyone will ever do. Now, while I certainly don’t agree with physical or emotional abuse, if I smack my child because he simply won’t listen to reason I do not want to be judged for it by opinionated, meddling liberals who know absolutely nothing about what you’re going through. If I said women are weak and useless because they have epidurals during pregnancy, would that be okay? Certainly not, because I have no idea what pregnancy is like to go through, so while it might be an opinion of mine (it’s not), it would have no merit because I wouldn’t know what I was talking about.

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    • Good reply John.

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    • I don’t have kids, but I was a kid once. And being slapped only ever left me feeling confused, angry and embarrassed. I’m a perfectly well rounded individual now I think but got into trouble a lot when I was 11/12 for hitting other children in my school. That’s what I’d been thought – when someone annoys you or won’t listen to you, you lash out.
      Your argument about pregnancy is redundant, you can’t and won’t ever be a pregnant woman. We were all children. Comparing slapping to epidurals is a bit silly also

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    • @John Lawless, I am a parent, a father and a childcare worker. Even before I was a parent I knew smacking wasn’t necessary because I was never smacked. My parents respected me and talked to me as I do to my kids now. I do remember the fear in my friends if they were getting a smack and the upset it caused. As Tokidoll said and I totally agree we were all kids once so this is something everyone has an opinion on and first hand experience in so using the excuse your not a parent how can you understand is not relevant. I agree with you that parenting is not easy and takes time and effort. If a child “simply won’t listen to reason” how is hitting them teaching them to be reasonable. Hitting only demonstrates and adults loss of control on a situation, plants fear (not respect) and teaches a child hitting/ violence is OK. Hitting is a matter of do what I say not what I do.

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    • There’s plenty of parents out there who manage to teach their kids to behave without resorting to violence.
      By the same token, there are plenty of parents who slap their kids regularly and still the kids never behave and forever need more physical discipline until it has no effect at all.

      The smacking is not the deciding factor in how a child will learn to behave, its the parenting. When you have a child it is YOUR duty to teach them how to be good people, because they don’t know anything until they learn it – and they *should* be learning from you. If you have to resort to physical violence to make your point then perhaps you didn’t do a great job of teaching them.

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  • Smacking a just a tool in the toolbox of discipling children and one I thankfully haven’t had to use yet. We live in a society were violence has become increasingly socially unacceptable. People are generally better educated and have other options to discipline ( by reading parenting books etc). I think this is a mostly a generational issue and will ultimately die out. Most people over 35 were spanked (at school and at home) but would be more hesitant to resort to spanking their own kids. Anyway there’s lots of ways of hurting kids and banning spanking isn’t going to stop the abuse of kids unfortunately.

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  • Disgusting fu*king animal should be imprisoned

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  • Nice way to start the article with a highly emotive video that has nothing to do with what the average person would regard as a “smack” on the bum but a video that shows IMO an assault. What I don’t get is why the author on one hand decries smacking and says that it is wrong but on the other hand says”It is not necessarily abusive, or worthy of criminal pursuit”. She goes on to say ” and admittedly the long-term damage might be minimal” and that it is “the means in itself infantile and unsophisticated” While making her case the author seems to be at the same time shooting down her arguments. She might think it’s wrong but admits it’s not abusive, criminal or leads to long term damage. So what’s her point?

    I have seen “sophisticated ” parents “reasoning” with their offspring in various settings and from what I can see it doesn’t work in the majority of cases because the child isn’t listening and the parent then thinks that their “cool parenting” has worked and happily wanders off thinking that little Johnny has learnt his lesson. I used to work in retail before and everyday without fail I would see undisciplined children causing chaos in stores only to be admonished (eventually) by their parents with ” That’s very bold, don’t do it again” while wagging their finger. You can see in the children’s faces “Yeah, whatever”. Would 1 or 2 hard smacks on their arse through their clothes focus them a bit more on behaving? I think it would.

    I’m all for ways of trying to teach and impose discipline on children without smacking so that they can get a good grounding in what is right and wrong as they grow up. However there are times when as a last resort a smack is necessary to really enforce the point that what the child has done is really wrong and deserves a smack as the least used but strongest form of punishment.

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    • Hi Brian,

      I wasn’t shooting down my argument, I was qualifying it. I think smacking should be banned but there are obviously lines to be drawn. The long-term damage to a child who was smacked once or twice can’t be compared to one that was smacked on a daily basis. There are always alternative forms of discipline and consistency and following through with warnings are the most important strategies.

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    • Rubbish, you’re trying to ally discipline with physical abuse. I’d never suggest you were doing so for dramatic effect, but…

      There’s a big difference!

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    • Thanks for the reply Kate and I understand that as any good writer you were trying to balance your arguments as opposed to giving a one sided view. I just felt that perhaps on this occasion you might have unknowingly given the smacking lobby fuel to their side of the debate. I agree that daily smacking can lead to problems in childhood development however a complete ban is going to bring up all sorts of problems in terms of how to enforce it, how to get across how serious a transgression is and sooner or later some child using the ban as a weapon against their parents by making false claims to police and social workers.

      On a separate matter I did enjoy you article on “Why shouldn’t women choose motherhood over a job?” and found it very insightful except for the first paragraph which now has given me an aversion to holding a pen! Thank God for keyboards! :-)

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  • I have my own ideas on how to raise my children but agree that one sees a lot of badly behaved children in public with a parent or parents who have no idea how to discipline them. I believe it is these undisciplined children that grow into the maladjusted troublemakers which we seem to encounter more often in modern ireland. There has been a lot of debate about taxing children’s allowance etc, my idea would be only to give children’s allowance to parents who have completed a parenting course first. It would be good for society in general and would only be agreed to if there was such a carrot at the end of it.

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  • Also take a look at our state run care facilities for children! How many deaths and runaways was recently reported!! Yeah the state is hardly getting it right themselves are they!!!

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  • What about ginger children, surely they’re fair game?

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  • Your kids are not your kids to raise as you see fit. They are private citizens afforded the protection of the constitution.
    Any parent who smacks a child has failed. And before I get the 500 red thumbs I do have kids, I haven’t smacked them and they are not noisy, cheeky spoiled brats.
    They are very well disciplined and when they do misbehave I talk to them, explain and punish them by denial of something they cherish.
    You do not need to smack children.
    I’m always amuses when parents say ‘I was smacked and it never did me any harm’ – they say as they continue the smacking of their own kids.
    You don’t need this battle with your kids. You are fighting a battle that isn’t there. You as the adult should know better.
    Roll on 500 thumbs but I remain correct.

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    • jrbmc 05/08/12 #

      Sean did you actually read my comment???? And understand the point I was making???? Let me explain it in Homer Simpson terms for you, there’s a law that makes it illegal to drink and drink but it doesn’t stop some from doing it….

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    • You ARE correct. I have 3 kids and don’t believe smacking is the answer. My youngest is 5 and eldest is 14 and people always comment on how mannerly and well behaved they are when in friends houses. They get invited back time and time again. They’re not superhuman kids, they misbehave like all kids but I communicate with my voice not my hands and if it doesn’t work there’s either time out or depriving them of something they love (video games, trips to friends house etc) The mere mention of my teenagers phone being confiscated will end any argument! Again, cue the ole redthumbers but they’re little humans, they deserve the respect from you that you expect from them!!

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    • reds 05/08/12 #

      @jrbmc- the law can never stop an idiot from being an idiot, but if the law says you shouldn’t be, it can punish you for it!

      Let’s hope they don’t by some chance bring that in or you’re screwed!

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  • Time for a poll maybe? Personally I’m not against smacking…

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  • This has to be the most biased article I’ve ever read, what happened to objectivity in the news!!

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  • Kevin 05/08/12 #

    This article is ridiculous. Don’t tell me how to raise my children. That’s my job not the nanny state’s thank you very much

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    • So you think the state has no right or responsibility to protect children?

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    • reds 05/08/12 #

      @kevin- how would you feel about a teacher hitting your child?

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    • I think you will find that actually under the child care act the state has the responsibility to ensure the safety and welfare of all children. You do not have the right to raise you children in a way contrary to their welfare Why is it people have to have a licence to drive a car but any idiot bully can have a child people who genuinely use smacking as discipline as they know no other way should do parent classes the hse offer lots of classes free incredible years parent plus to name a few invest in the future happiness of your children and in your relationship with them and join some classes. Btw I do have children now wonderful adults who I never smacked

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  • Pretty sad that so many don’t deem raising a hand and slapping a child as violence. Spanking is an act of violence, it is certainly not an act of love. How is teaching a child that if they don’t do as their told they will be slapped good for them? It makes no sense and we accept it because it happened to us, that doesn’t make it right! Its an easy way out. What do you do when your child Is learning to interact with other kids and find slapping is the best way to get their new friends to play the games they want? My daughter is 7, I have never slapped her and she is a very polite, caring and well rounded little girl, I didn’t need to use my hands to make her this way, don’t get me wrong we have our moments but work through them without the threat or use of violence. You can’t honestly say raising a hand and spanking is not an act of violence or at least sends the message if you don’t do as your told you will be physically punished. Raising a hand and physically hitting it of someone to show authority is a violent act.

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  • for goodness sake. there is always a better way to discipline your children than using violence against them. Parenting courses are very useful to show parents an easier long term solution to unwanted behavior. Smacking is a useless tool. And I’m sure that any parent who smacks must feel upset themselves afterwards. Because it is just wrong. Btw I am a parent and I also work with children and I would implore parents who smack to give other ways of disciplining a chance first. Try distraction, communication, modelling the correct behavior and lots and lots of praise when they are being good. Everyone feels better then

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    • Smiley 05/08/12 #

      Yeah, you try all those things when you’re in the supermarket checkout and see how they work.

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    • Well yeah smiley but the check out girls don’t like to be spanked. If I am allowed back in Tescos again I will be more understanding

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    • I’m not sure if you’re just being smart Smiley but if not then that is my point, that parents can use other options rather than resorting to violence against their children. The supermarket scenario is a very common problem parents speak about but if you think about it, if a plan was put in place like giving the child responsibility for some shopping or making the consequences of their behaviour very clear and following through or leaving them at home if possible. At the end of the day children are looking for our attention all of the time and if we are distracted, tired, busy, etc then they will do what they can to get our attention focused back to them, ie acting up in the shops. You get more stressed out cos you have a lot on your mind, your child is acting up and everyone in the shop is now staring at you. Wouldn’t it be easier in the long term to have anticipated what is going to happen and find a way around it. I know it’s hard being a parent and I do get angry with my children too but I have to find a better way than smacking

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    • Smiley 05/08/12 #

      So, Grainne, how are you going to give the toddler who is in the shopping trolley responsibility for the shopping? Giving food off the shelf as I’ve often seen is theft. Not everyone can manage to get babysitters so leaving children home is not an option. What are you going to do when the child has a tantrum at the checkout because they can’t have the sweets? Seen that lots, too. I had the sweets problem only once. Wasn’t usually a problem because I am good at explaining the rules and the child understood them. A tap on the child’s hand stopped the tantrum. An immediate consequence for inappropriate behaviour by the child. The checkout operator told me that more parents should do the same as I did. Sometimes children get beyond reasoning. A tap on bum or hand works. Never with anything more than the parent’s hand. Never with an object.

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    • Ok Smiley. Obviously I didn’t mean to steal food off the shelf and I also said “if possible” to leave them at home. I’m only saying that to try other options would be a better way to deal with unwanted behaviour than smacking in my opinion. I understand that children have meltdowns in shops, I’ve seen it myself. But can we not look further into it? Why is the child throwing the tantrum in the first place? Are they just used to getting their own way? Is it a pattern that has formed to get attention? Do you think that it was the smack on the hand that has stopped your child/ren from continuing the behaviour or was it the respect that you have shown them previously by explaining situations? From what I’ve witnessed smacking while a child is in the middle of a tantrum only escalates the problem and leaves everybody including the parent upset and feeling guilty. Most parents, in my opinion feel absolutely awful for smacking because they have let a situation get out of hand. Most parents before having children would be horrified to think that they may raise their hands to their future children, do you not think? Anyway, I respect that if you think otherwise. Now I’ve to go calm down my boys who are getting very excited about the favourite team playing today!! Up the Kingdom. Thanks

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    • Grainne, the most educated comment yet.

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  • A short sharp smack on the arse isn’t violence, it’s a lesson. When I was growing up and was being bold, all my dad had to say was “I’ll take fire out of your jaw.” I never knew what it meant, but thats because whenever he said it, I stopped being bold!! Fear of something teaches children more than mollycoddling does.

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  • Discipline is important but smacking is a weak, lazy way to instil it.

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  • I’m a parent and the temptation for a short, swift smack, even just to draw my childs attention to something they’ve done is something I’ve considered frequently, but not something I’ve ever done. If you have to smack a child you’ve failed as a parent. Monkey see monkey do. What message are you giving a child if you smack them ? Are you telling them it’s okay to hit somebody if they do wrong ? I think so. And that message in itself is wrong. Do it often enough and you’ve ingrained a message on that childs sub-conscious. It’ll repeat itself at some stage later in life. Smacking is the lazy parents first port of call in teaching a lesson to a child. There are other, more effective ways. Ways that will create a firebreak in social behaviour for coming generations. There are three children in our house who have never been smacked and who are three of the most earthed, socially conscious, confident and mannerly children you could meet. Good behaviour of children can easily be achieved without having to resort to smacking.

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  • there’s a big difference between giving a child a smack on the hand and beating them violently

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    • Definitely Shane. Tried to make that clear in my article too.

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    • Of course there is a big difference.
      There is also a big difference between smacking and a fair punishment.
      We are adults, we should know better.
      If your boss at work gave you a little smack for a mistake you made what would you think? Ah, nothing violent just a little smack?
      For goodness sake. If somebody stands too close to us we think it’s inappropriate. Why do we think kids are different? There is no need to smack kids. You lead by example and example is the best way to guide children of the rights and wrongs of the world.

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  • This is physical abuse. Absolutely disgraceful. Smacking of any description is wrong. To hurt a child on purpose!!!!?? Wheres the argument?

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  • Great, ban discipline in the home. These are the same people that say prosecute the parents when teenagers break the law. Isn’t that why teenagers are running a muck in the first place. In my day you were just as likely to get a smack off a neighbour if you were caught doing something wrong. Now you’re telling us we can’t smack our own kids on the backside, when they misbehave.

    So can you answer me this,
    who will discipline our future generation of children? TV?

    I am totally against physical abuse , but an occasional smack on the arse for a child when they step out of line is completely necessary at times!

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  • Jesus, if I wanted to see videos of teenage girls being spanked then theJournal.ie would not usually be my first port of call ;)

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  • Aleo 05/08/12 #

    If you smack your child, rest assured that that child will hit back. If you are fortunate, they’ll only hit your grandchildren; if you are less fortunate, they will mark themselves out as bullies early on by finding other victims who can’t complain about them or strike them back, just as you did when you struck them. Either way, you will have taught them to hurt the vulnerable and hide or justify the act – a piece of ‘liberal nonsense’ you may wish you had heeded in the years to come, when you become a vulnerable presence in their lives. I applaud this article.

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  • If you need to smack your child to communicate to them that their behaviour is wrong, then you fail at communication and parenting.

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  • Nix 05/08/12 #

    What about the toddler in child care? Can the staff of a crèche (who have more than tantrum-throwing toddler to contend with) slap them? Of course not. How do those who seem to believe slapping to be the only effective form of discipline suggest that child care workers keep unruly little ones in line? And if they can do so without slapping, why can’t parents?

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    • Nix 05/08/12 #

      I would add that while I don’t think slapping is the only (or the best) form of discipline, I think we have far bigger child welfare issues to deal with in this country. Neglect, to name just one.

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    • Creche staff do not have the ultimate responsibility for the behaviour of a child and the shaping of the childs own inner process to regulate their behaviour to what’s socially & morally acceptable. Parents have that sole burden and I’ve no doubt all creche employees and child care workers refer to the parents at the end of a day when there is a significant issue.

      Apples and oranges.

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    • Nix 05/08/12 #

      The point people are making is small children can’t be reasoned with. What good is talking to parents hours later about an incident? What are the parents going to do: reason with the child? Slap? Neither will have meaning for the child after an incident that was hours before. How do child care workers manage small children while they are in their care? The child care worker is legally in loco parentis. They have a duty of care to the child misbehaving and the other children affected by that behaviour.

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  • I would genuinely like to know if the writer of this opinion piece has experience of being a full time parent to children too young to rationalise and reason with, and being completely responsible for disciplining them in moments of extreme unacceptable behaviour, with a view to their long term development. There are many factors which I feel are being overlooked in this article and the absolute lack of links to supporting research leave it lacking in my opinion. Smack on the bottom teaches violence and children’s behaviour is a mimic of their parents? If only things were that simple.

    I’ve never bitten my child, I don’t know any parent who does. Yet I bet everyone knows a kid who bites siblings or at creches or playdates, my daughter has (to my horror) bitten her younger sister and we never knew why. I don’t have a fit of frustration and fling my laptop across the room when I read articles or comments that frustrate me, but I bet we’ve all seen a kid lose it and fling an errant lego block in frustration. I never taught my daughter things like ‘shooting badguys’ in her games she never sees violent TV, but some other kids at her pre-school play that way and she came home doing it. Small children have developing feelings and their limited ability to understand and express them can make them aggressive and that has no relation to if they are smacked or not, the methods of discipline are not necessarily related to how they can lash out.

    I HAVE taught my daughter that there is a line in her behaviour which is beyond acceptable, and though it hurts me dreadfully to do so, when she crosses that line her bottom gets smacked. It never happens immediately, its part of a long exhausting process of discussion, reprimand and finally warning, in which its the last resort and she is given a clear choice that unless the stated unacceptable behaviour stops she will be smacked. I don’t have to smack her often because she is generally a beautifully behaved little girl, but I love her enough to have strong boundaries and the fact I have used a smacked bottom in the past has given her a clear breaking point that she avoids at all costs and its a powerful tool in giving her the option to make the choice to alter her behaviour.

    That being said, every child is different. Our 4yr old has had a smacked bottom a few times, the 3yr old only once (admittedly she has had less opportunity for trouble!) perhaps she is learning from her older sister, but generally she is not as wilful. We’ll see how that changes when the 3yr old starts her ECCE pre-school year in a few weeks, because her experiences there will change her and impact her behaviour. And though I privately cry after smacks more than they do, I absolutely will smack the 3yr olds bottom in the most extreme circumstances when *all* else has failed. Simply because I love her too much to allow her develop without the boundaries she needs.

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    • When *all* else has failed?
      I trust your 3 year old isn’t Charles Manson. I’m not saying its easy but you need to be patient. A 3 yr old comes out of it after 20 mins.

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    • My 3yr old is nothing of the sort, however there are times her behaviour goes too far and ‘coming out of it after 20 mins’ isn’t a solution. All behaviours have consequences and my 3yr old doesn’t have the emotional tools -yet- to deal with empathy or the ability to look into the short term future and understand the effects of her actions. She is however able to use the dislike of a smack on the bottom to make the choice to stop in the absence of the developed mental and emotional processes she will have at an older age. A smacked bottom is a short term last resort until reasoning and discussion can take over fully.

      And it takes more than patience, it takes awareness of my own feelings too. Smacking a child in anger is nothing more than losing control of yourself and its shameful. I use a smacked bottom as a last resort tool in a long patient process of exhausting ALL other options and is never a reaction to MY feelings.

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    • Excellent points, Karen.

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    • Please enrol In a parenting group they are fantastic and give loads of ideas and strategies around discipline for every age group more importantly it shows. Parents how to build communication and relationships so it is only rarely that any sanctions are required as your child knows what is expected and wants to please you. I have never had to smack my child and she is now a teacher herself

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  • Stupid reply John, says it all really, if you feel that you are a lesser father than others because you can’t communicate with your child your probably right…your comment shows you can’t communicate with adults also.

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  • That’s horrific! Her parents are animals!! Poor girl:(

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  • What a load of tree hugging hippy bullocks. Always using the extreme to make a point.

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  • It’s a sad world when a grown adult has to get physical with a child to teach them right from wrong. What does it really achieve?

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  • We should ban sex in Ireland, surely that will stop incidents of rape! Sensationalist article.

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  • This is an interesting article, not because of the actual piece itself but the reactions to it. Scanning through the comments it is clear people know the distinction between a light smack and a beating which constitutes abuse. However, is it true to say that parents who employ this method to discipline their children, the method of a ‘light tap’, will consistently keep it as harmless as it sounds. Kids will test you, its in their nature. They’re curious at what they can be allowed to do. The law often comes into conflict over the rights of the individual versus the rights of society as a whole. So, society says to the stressed mother or father, no – you cannot touch your child regardless of what he has done, whether that be simply not going to bed when he is told or drawing all over the walls of the kitchen with crayons. People might deem this harsh on the parent, but come on the smacking isn’t always so light is it? An adult hitting a child cannot be justified on the grounds of trying to teach it right from wrong. You can be arrested for assault by simply bumping into someone on the street if done intentionally. Why should a child have to endure such force from their parents simply because they could not be bothered sitting them down and explaining why they can’t do this or that, why it is not acceptable. There’s a reason why the woman on Nanny 911 doesn’t start dishing out a hiding to the screaming brat driving his parents insane. It has to be said that slapping is the easy option, and that there does need to be a change in attitudes towards it. Parents don’t have the time to do this for every little thing the child does wrong, but honestly there has to be a better way to teach them. There are creative ways to discipline them that are just as straightforward and effective, personally I feel children should not be subject to violence, especially coming from their own parents.

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  • “Did you steal Daddy’s car and set it on fire? Did your Daddy give you a smack on the bum for it? If so, call Hooligans Direct, and we’ll teach your Daddy a lesson.”

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  • Smacking should be banned, I totally agree with this well written piece. Nothing upsets me more than to see an adult hit a child. I do realise many of us were smacked, beaten with a wooden spoon or belt while growing up and many think it did no harm, perhaps we/they are the lucky ones well adjusted enough to see that our parents meant well. But when I see a parent resort to assaulting a child it is obvious there is something really wrong happening. Violence against a defenceless child can never be justified, I can’t see any situation where smacking/ beating would make a child a better person.

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  • I’m not going to say what is right or wrong in this comment. But we’re not going to get anywhere if we’re saying that smacking a child is right or is wrong and then only giving anecdotal evidence,as if anecdotal evidence can transform an opinion into fact. It can’t because it’s subjective, not objective. In the same way, distinguishing between a symbolic disciplinary smack and an act of violence, but then only having a subjectively drawn line between the two things, will be equally unworkable. We’ll only end up with a number of opinions with no way to measure which opinions are more valid.

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    • Kate do you know what happened to the judge I hope he was convicted of battery appalling animal granted smacking parents don’t go to these extremes but it is the same emotions going on parent is angry and frustrated hits child to release the emotions not to teach child feels powerless and at the parents whim both acts seek to control and humiliate

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    • Hi Betty-Lou, As far as I know, he has been suspended with full pay, pending an investigation but that it’s not being treated as a criminal offence because too many years have passed since it happened.. Agree that the emotions are the same.

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  • Is thejournal trying to legitimate the illegal downloading of music here? :-P

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  • Adults slapping children and trying to justify it, if anything ever warranted a slap!

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  • Smacking causes fear, resentment and anxiety. It’s lazy and misguided parenting. We can enlighten our kids about innappropriate behaviour without hitting them. We can do better for our kids.

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  • So ban smacking as a form of discipline. What is the next logical form of discipline? Communication. Talk to your child. If this becomes the socially acceptable form of discipline, how long will it take for people to complain about the psychological impact of such discipline?

    It’s a never ending debate, and a testament to where our society is in trying to protect our children. We as a society try our best and hats off to everyone in this debate. We need to protect out children at all costs, but it must be balanced and without prejudice. Disciplining a child is important. How to discipline a child is equally delicate, both physically and mentally and no one seems to be discussing the mental implications of any firm of discipline on a child. Why? Because its difficult to understand.

    I will be clear on one thing though. This video is not representative of “acceptable smacking” if there is such a thing. This is an assault, clear and simple to all commentators in this forum. To compare this level of abuse, to smacking is wrong. At 16, this girl is almost fully developed and it is her father that held a fear over her through abuse that should come under question.

    In the UK, the laws on smacking were defined as a strike on the hand or bum only with such force as to not produce an excessive reddening of the skin. This law is now under question, as one MP (or racist possibly) said that dark skinned people do not redden in the same manner as white skinned people, thus implying that dark skin people would be hit harder to produce reddening.

    So where do you draw a line?

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  • paul 05/08/12 #

    I stopped reading after the first few lines. shamefully bad headline. I hope you didn’t get paid for writing that dross. kids Dont need saving from a smack. am perplexed at that article.

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  • There’s a big difference between disciplining a child (todler to yong school age) with a spank (singular), when called upon, and what’s described above.

    On occasion, it’s sonetimes required to spank a child as a form of discipline when either the severity of something calls for it, or when other means fail to work.

    Using a belt, excessive force, multiple strikes, or applying to anywhere but the bottom (or the back of the hand lightly) is completely uncalled for except between consenting adults who may be into such things.

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  • Wonder how brave these parents would be if this was done to them ANIMALS not fit to be called parents

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  • Good Jesus, smacking, hitting, beating, whatever, none of it should be allowed. Disgusting! Would you like to be smacked as an adult? I don’t think so. People grow up and bring the ban in ASAP!!!

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  • Parenting a child is not of itself ownership to a point where the child’s rights as an individual human being can be infringed. There is no definable measure of what is a smack and what is violence and an adult would not accept violence from another person, so why should a child who is largely defenceless against such an act have to accept that smack.

    Violence is a tool of domination and control. Yes there are difficult children and parents stretched to their limits for all kinds of reasons. But equally there are parents who hit first and ask questions later.

    I would recoil at the thought of my children being subject to the corporal punishment that I endured many years ago in our school system. Why should I have a right to inflict such punishment on my own children?

    The question is not about whether a parent should hit a child, but rather whether any person should hit any other person.

    The ISPCC had a fantastic video ad on this subject that was withdrawn because of public complaint. The sight of the boy being beaten was too extreme for public viewing.

    That was an ad with actors. The children being hit in real life are not. Is that level of violence comparable to a smack on the hand? For the child being smacked, it may well be. We simply cannot know because each child is an individual and reacts differently to different situations.

    But in there I feel is the answer: a child is an individual being offered violence by an adult, another individual, and for me that is wrong.

    Pat

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  • Was talking to a bloke with two young kids a few weeks ago..Both boys were under 7 and really well behaved and well mannered. He said the best way to deal with a child throwing a tantrum is to stick them under a freezing cold shower..! Every time they misbehave you only gotta threaten them with the shower and hey presto they stop throwing the tantrum!

    Anyone else heard of this method?!

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  • paul 05/08/12 #

    had to say it 3 times I was so annoyed. delete button?

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  • To equate a light smack on the bum with batterings and torture and humiliation like what that monster of a judge inflicted on his daughter… seems to be to be doing a major injustice to those experiencing, and who have survived, such abuse.

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  • Warren, noone is saying it’s a beating but when you smack someone it hurts, why would one want to hurt a child unnecessarily?

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    • I just think everyone is getting a little confused here and are mistaking a smack to a beating, I know when we were younger and if we didn’t listen the first time we got a smack on the wrist! What next in all fairness, will giving out to your child be called mental and emotional violence?

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  • censored 06/08/12 #

    Ireland must ban all smacking of children because a judge in Texas beat his daughter?

    By the way, he would have been charged with assault and causing injury to a child, except the video didn’t come to light until after 5 years – statute of limitations.

    This is a terrible intellectually dishonest example to use. It’s like the other stupid nanny state arguments we get all the time:
    * if you don’t like CCTV you must have something to hide
    * if you don’t like the idea that the government will monitor all your internet communications you must be a child abuser
    etc etc

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    • Im not sure where Nanny state arises in an assault scenario? It was absolutely nothing to do with cctv or internet filtering. If you hit someone them you assault them. It is the fact that children’s right are subservient to that of a parent which allows common assault of a child. When do you judge that the assault has gone over the top? The odd thing about this is that I have never seen anything in law that specifically states that a parent can hit a child by virtue of the fact that they ‘own’ or are guardians of a child.

      Maybe the question should be – should we allow assault of children in circumstances and a manner as yet undefined?

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  • My parents rarely smacked us but it was the prevailing mentality in our Catholic school to punish us with one to six belts on the hands for spelling a word wrong and the screams of the Teacher in the next classroom, I distinctly remember being punished by a Teacher for telling the Truth!!!! And the Alcoholic headmistress who picked me out of 300 students to punish me for I don’t know what to this day. I grew up very frightened to be truthful with people and when my own children attended school I would go into a full blown anxiety attack at the very thought of attending a parent/teacher conference and because my youngest daughter was never punished by her teachers the way I was she always went to them for advice and direction… A far cry from my teachers.
    That Judge deserves prosecution. This is definitely a control issue with him and it could have been dealt with in an open dialogue of trust and love. We do what we see. I am against smacking children particularly children under 3 years old.
    Black mothers in America get the utmost respect from their sons… Who will go out and murder the competition but will roll over and obey their Moms without question or talking back.

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  • paul 05/08/12 #

    I stopped reading after the first few lines. shamefully bad headline. I hope you didn’t get paid for writing that dross. kids Dont need saving from a smack. am perplexed at that article.

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  • paul 05/08/12 #

    I stopped reading after the first few lines. shamefully bad headline. I hope you didn’t get paid for writing that dross. kids Dont need saving from a smack. am perplexed at that article.

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  • How on earth is a smack violent abuse, it’s typical of this day and age that evr

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  • sure….ban the smack. and just have a look around at the ‘little angels’ you see in the shops, parks and other places.

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  • A tap on the hand or a tap on the bum sends a fast message to the brain!!!! There is a HUGE difference in beating your child with a belt to a simple smack– Why are we bringing up children like they are kings and queens… No dirt, no disapline, no fun … Pure spoilt!!!!!! They aren’t children anymore!!!!! We are to blame!!!!

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