The first sentence implies that all property experts believe that rents will rise. In fact it is just a report by savills who are estate agents. I’m sure there are other property experts who don’t share this opinion.

How long can this madness go on? Incomes within the private sector continue to plummet, yet the price of nearly everything just gets more expensive. Then when you add in the property tax and forthcoming water charges, the point in which the whole system breaks down completely must surely be fast approaching. We had that Kenny bloke thanking us for the huge sacrifices that we are all apparently quite willing to make, if it means keeping his kind in the style in which they’re all accustomed. I’m pretty sure that the will is slowly ebbing away though. The tolerant Irish ordinary people are quickly beginning to lose patience with the same old lines being preached week after week. Be careful Mr Kenny. You’re credibility ratings were never very high in the eyes of most people, and now it’s completely shot. Unless an economic miracle happens, your days in high office are quickly running out.

Well said rod, coupled with inevitable Christmas debt for most people, higher interest rates etc etc 2013 will be the straw that broke the donkeys back!

As the tax will be used for local services tenants should be paying it anyway

What local services

Firefighting eh no

Bins eh no

Water eh no

The landlord should pay it as its their house i wouldnt expect a temmant to pay for the upkeep of the area i bought a house

Spot on, it is an open market. If you have a couple that are professionals with no children there combined income of 4 grand a month rent of 1200 a month is not so bad in south Dublin. It’s a lot cheaper then the mortgage on property if it was bought in the height.
It’s the young family that I feel sorry for.

How can you say it’s a free market! NAMA are dictating rent prices, and they’re a Government agency.Then look at how much the Government spend on rent supplement for people on social welfare and you’ll soon realise its far from being a free market.

Nama have a lot of property on there books but they need a lot of work to get them rent worthy.
Fire sale them and pay more tax.
It’s supply and demand. Rent in Carlow and commute to Dublin. Rent now is the same as it was 10 years ago if not cheaper still no where near the height.

Free market??

If its a market, it aint free. And if its free, it aint a market.
‘Free market’ is a marketing oxymoron driven by those too big to fail in the trading halls they control through their invisible hands puppeteering their financial leverage through stock manipulations using shell companies and based on their originally falsified claims to the ‘free’ resources(starting with land)which constitute the common heritage of humanity.
What justifies government and taxation is the societal need to provide for all from this historic situation by redistribution so the strongest don’t hog the whole trough. Unfortunately these pirates and gangsters have become so powerful that they control both the tax system and global governments and reverse the original drive of democratic overthow of centuries of accumulated war-loot and now ensure the poor pay taxes and the hereditary rich use the resultant infrastructure to further impoverish all except themselves who continue to accrue even in the depressions they create.
When they control 99% of the media, and the population are kept entertained rather than informed, the debate seldom gets aired. Ireland is simply a microcosm of the globalised system run on war, theft, lies and ignorance. The neoliberal ideology at its rat-racing heart is as impervious to reason and humanity as is the religious antipathy to self-examination at the heart of Roman halo-polishing.

Damien, in that rant you have just attacked government and free market all in one. You would either want a government to control all prices or you would want a free market to control prices but you cannot attack both. Unless there is another mechanism that I do not know about. Then you threw in religion to thick all de boxes!!

Also what free market means is a collective unit decides by there actions what a fair price for something is from the price of milk in the shop to government bonds. We have the choice not to pay the bonds but we are choosing to pay them, simple as that. Most people on this site would not like to pay them but most people in Ireland as a whole would. If I am wrong then you need to organise the majority and vote in a government who will not pay them and stop ranting.

Personally I thought we should not have paid them, because that is how the free market functions correctly. But we socialised the debt and we have to try work it out now because there are no or very little bond holders to bun anymore, we could burn the ecb, etc but I think that would be a bad idea when we will probably get a deal anyway.

Your reactionary slinging of ‘rant’ at my points won’t make the facts go away Sean.

Illustration. Ask a dairy farmer about your ‘price of milk’ and how and who decides its fairness.
The ignorant rant is in the eye of the beholder.
Try thinking. Its an acquired taste, but we all have the old grey muscle to develope or allow atrophy according to choice. That one is free. Wishful thinking is a poor substitute for facing evidence.

You are stuck in Bertieconomics. And as ever, there are none so blind as those who WILL not see.

Sean
your last paragraph was spot on
by paying the bondholders and bailing out the banks the free market was broken, capitalism is broken and a new system has to emerge. the money has come full circle. my solution for the sake of the world we live in would be to burn the few in order for the many to survive.

The perfect illustration of the efficacy of ‘free markets’ is provided by the Manchester School of economics which argued against interference in the 1840s famines so that food was exported while the population found its ‘rational level’. Its like spending your kids food money on painting the house.
The economy either serves the population, or the population is sacrificed, again, to a gluttonous elite obscenely financially obese already.
This ‘free market’ idiocy was revived under Milton Friedman in the Chicago School in the 1950s, from where it was injected into Latin America through Pinochet’s Chile and other fascistic regimes with their Operation Condor techniques of social war.

Its not that simple, Frank.
We need to burn the economic paradigm, and that requires explication of its contradictions against the flow of received ‘wisdom’ and vested propaganda which loads exclusion and abuse on all who challenge its contradictions.

We did vote for people who said “not another red cent” and “Frankfurt’s way…” so there you have it, democracy doesn’t work when political promises are less legally binding than the claims written on product packaging. If we’d bought a product based on a similar pack of lies we’d get a refund.

@Paul

Spot on. What we have is our ‘democracy’ controlled by the maketeers. Again an inversion of the rational way to run anything.
The government should ‘govern’ in the collective, as opposed to the vested, interest. Instead those ‘too big’ to be governable(taxes are for little people)govern our fraudulently elected ‘governments’.

Phukk the tricolour, salute the Troika, but don’t tell joe public; we’ll be gone to pasture with Bertie before they notice.

Jaysus wasn’t expecting that. Nothing is going to change unfortunately.

A seasonal take on property and homelessness

http://youtu.be/PNHIETXh4Vw

My point is that the free market and democracy are all about the collective majority making multiple individual decisions that they believe in there own interest. The other option is have a single unit (e.g. Government) make all the decisions for all the people on what they feel is best (I.e. communism) for the majority.

You cannot attack both government and the free market at the same time without suggesting a better solution. So that is why I judged it as a rant, because you are not putting forward a solution – should we have more government? I think that is were you are leaning, I would not agree because as we have seen they make bad decisions which can really screw everyone over.

Also I come from a farm, not sure what you are trying to get at there?

@Paul, if you do not like this government then you need to organise the majority of the people in this nation to vote them out or else should we a select a hierarchy of people with similar opinions run the country instead? If that is the case then I would be on the 1st plane….

@ Seán, you said we should vote in someone to sort things out the way the people seem to want, burning the bondholders etc. Clearly that was the deal offered by both govt parties elected. They broke the deal and there is no comeback apart from waiting for the govt to fall or revolution.

Exactly my point, if the majority was unhappy with the situation then we would have a change because in a democratic society and free market society all the people make the decisions by there actions, but it obviously most people are either happy or willing to give the government a chance because they have one confidence in them.

@Sean…a sheep farm, judging by your wooly thinking.
Somehow I suspect you wear a died in the wool blue shirt. Hard to wash that dye out.

@ Seán, exactly the opposite of your point. Learn to read.

@Paul, you’re point is not very well made then, give it to me again in a one liner? I say we live in a democracy so we have the power to get this government out if the country really wanted to, but obviously we do not.

@Damien, I am not a blue shirt but that is a pretty petty response seeing were discussing free market vs communism, so I will take it that you do not have any better arguments to put forward and actually do not have another solution so you were just having a good auld rant for yourself….

@ Seán, it’s perfectly clear, now you’re either an idiot, a troll or both, either way good luck to you.

The former definitely..the latter, I doubt he would know how.

That’s exactly why she paid us a little visit!!!!

She would also be a major bondholder.

The cost of business, in this case owning a property, is not related to price ( in thus case rent) in a free market. Of course the rental market is not necessarily free.

Nevertheless if emigration next year continues and demand softens then prices will fall, if not it won’t. The landlord sector is as subject to business reality as the rest of us.

It’s called Limerick. But government policy over the years has seen my city decline into a shiny people infested economic basket case.

Where in Dublin? Apart from maybe a few areas of Clondalkin, Tallaght and Finglas there are precious few 2 beds for under 1000 anywhere in Dublin! I know because I spent a long time looking. Most of the ones that were, either got snapped up as soon as they went on daft or were unliveable!

Of course it’s rigged, the whole system is rigged; banks not allowed to fail, no debt write off for the average mortgage holder, government maintaining upward only rent reviews, it’s blatant rigging.
Look at the simplest of those – upward only rent reviews, what the f**k is that about??

Our population is the fastest growing in Europe, its certainly not declining and although there are plenty of extra stock in ghost estates they aren’t ‘appropriate family homes’ and they aren’t in south Dublin where demand is and bad planning/height & density restrictions legacy is still dragging

Baloney

The population is declining on a net basis, we may have the highest birth rates in Europe but 83,000 people left the country last year and those figures don’t include non nationals returning home.

However we live in a sort of free market economy, as long as people are willing to pay those rents, then that’s what the market will bare. That said, it didn’t mention how long those properties remain empty before being let at those prices, which has the potential to skew the figures majorly!