I argee to a point. I think reigion should be taught. But all religions. Its supposed to be unbiased education.

Spot on Sean! I can’t think of anywhere else that would allow an organisation that has protected child abusers to have any part in children’s education!

Kevin – I don’t think religion should be taught as a single subject. World religion could be included as part of a larger subject of philosophy and critical thinking – but a single subject on religion is meritless.

Good to hear.
All you people that voted for thumbs up… Voice your concerns to the relevant authorities!
You are the taxpayer.
You are the one that can bring about a change.
It’s entirely up to you.

Fairy tales? So, intellects of the stature of Aquinas, Meister Eckhart, John Calvin, Luther, John Wesley, Schleiermacher , Hans Urs von Balthasar, Karl Barth, Karl Rahner, Hans Kung, Reinhold Niebuhr, Paul Tillich (to name just a tiny few, ancient and modern) all believed in “fairly tales” did they? A philosophical theological tradition going back 2000 years can be dismissed so contemptuously? A belief system that still grasps minds much greater than yours can be equated with the stories of the Brothers Grimm?

Yes, religious philosophy is nonsense, it accepts at it’s heart as truth an unprovable idea.
Everything is then built around this construct. It carries as much weight as the study of star signs.

Spot on. Bring the kids to Sunday school if you want that.

” So, intellects of the stature of Aquinas, Meister Eckhart, John Calvin, Luther, John Wesley, Schleiermacher , Hans Urs von Balthasar, Karl Barth, Karl Rahner, Hans Kung, Reinhold Niebuhr, Paul Tillich (to name just a tiny few, ancient and modern) all believed in “fairly tales” did they?”

Yes, they did. And you can write out that list as long as you desire, it still won’t change that. The human population once thought the world was flat. Just because a belief-set is common, does not mean that it is true. It’s precisely this sort of logic, that would give merit to a class in critical thinking instead of religious studies.

Why kevin , when much of the religious historical events are covered in history . We need stop brainwashing children into belief systems that have no evidence . If they choose or the parents choose to introduce them later in their teens , well so be it but to force young children into religion is a bizarre infringement in their human rights .

We smile at kids in early teens who talk about Santa yet we encourage religion . Go figure !

Agreed. Religious Education is fine and grand, as long as it’s voluntary and incorporates all religions. And there, already, we have a problem. Howya going to fit 2,000 practiced, and millions of unpracticed religions in one course?

I’m nitpicking.

The Roman Catholic church, and a bunch of freeloading teachers! I feel sorry for the poor kids!!

Freeloading teachers? Where? Oh, they get paid money for educating our children? BUNCH A LEECHES!

What has that got to do with the article?

@ Ryan – attention to detail old chap!

Article, Paragraph 5: “INTO members will also vote on motions calling for a reversal in the Government’s controversial Budget cuts to small schools, and for the Croke Park deal on pay and pensions to be maintained and protected”.

Relevant comment taking into account this paragraph.

Still don’t see the relevance young lad. There was a full stop at the end of the article aswell, do you want to comment on that too. And since you pointed it out, I believe the teachers in this country to be of such a high standard that they deserve the wage they get! And I for one am sick of people pointing out the European equivalent. This is Ireland NOT the united states of Europe so I don’t care what they earn or the cost of living there!!!
Stick to the main topic of the article!!!

* Regardless of pay! Religious organisations should have no part in schools or education. If they were so good at it, why didn’t they leave the priests in charge…..corporal punishment anyone? Education should not be influenced by religion IMHO.

Sunday school, mass and religious youth clubs should suffice in teaching the nesasary religious beliefs.

@ Ryan

Finland, lauded as the best Education system in the World, bar none can pay their teachers half as much, in a market economy with similar consumer prices (2% variance). Why does it take us twice as much cash?

Your “This is Ireland NOT the united states of Europe so I don’t care what they earn or the cost of living there” comment is pretty worrying, insular and parochial considering we should be trying to achieve a level of realism here in terms of over inflated Ireland in public sector wages. What’s wrong with comparisons? It’s a realistic measurement of where we should be. All I presented were a few stonewall facts and stastics.

As for your “Stick to the main topic of the article!!!” comment I can comment on any part of this article that I wish to. The devil is in the detail, and clearly attention to detail (something that was patently lacking in the Celtic Tiger era) is not your strong point. Let’s hope Ireland teachers don’t suffer from your shortcomings and can try to emphasise the importance of it to irelands youngsters.

How about your attention to detail these figures pre date the cuts a teacher starting out today starts in 14% less and gets no allowances erc the have a gross pay in the mid twenties a secretary or factory worker etc get paid more. My daughter went to college for 4 years and then did her hdip and she earns less than her friends who went straight into work in a shop. She works till nine everyday preparing lesson plans for the special needs children she teaches and she is regularly assaulted in her classroom. there is no big line at the door of people looking to do the job If you think it’s a great job go get the qualification no one is stoping you. But be prepared that you will only get occasional subbing and will be subjected to dogs abuse by I’ll informed idiots and after twenty five years service you will eventually reach the top of the scale. If we want a knowledge economy we have to have the best candidates for teaching our children. In England they currently have a crisis in teaching as the lose more experienced teachers out of the system than they train.but don’t let the truth get in the way of a good public servant bashing. Yawn

@padraic
That waffle was brilliant!! My point still stands. (and incidentally ignored by you, even though the main article is about religion & schools)
But don’t let that stop you, let’s cut the teachers wages again, why not pay them minimum wage!!! And have 65+ children in the classroom learning about a failing religion. In fact let’s all go to Finland.

I won on the grand national yereeeow

:D

Drinks on me Orla ;)

In fairness Orla, Patrick (yes he’s my brother) stated the year the figures were taking from. So I don’t think you can accuse him of trying to hide/distorte the facts. Having done a quick search they do seem to be the latest figures available See for yourself at http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/61/2/48631582.pdf. If you can find more recent figures that are independently verified please share them with us.

I think most reasonable people would agree that the majority of Irish teachers put in a great effort and deserve to be well compensated. Your daughter is obviously a very selfless and determined woman and I certainly wouldn’t be able to do her job. But the story of your daughter is just that, an anecdotal story and I’m sorry but you can’t use them as a basis for dictating government policy on teachers pay.

I believe that teaching (well every government job really) should be a meritocracy. Where well performing teachers are well looked after and those that are incapable of doing there job properly should be fired, plain and simple. But you see the unions won’t stand for that so as a result all teachers are having to take pays cuts. In the private sector the pay cuts have also been very severe, but on top of this a hell of a lot of people (hundreds of thousands in fact) have also lost their jobs. Public sector employees just don’t seem to understand the resentment that there ‘well that isn’t my problem is it’ sentiment generates when there are so many other people who are suffering so much more than them.

Ryan to be honest I don’t even know where to start with you. Enjoy you winnings and I hope you have a great night on the lash with them. Patrick was trying to have a debate with you grounded in facts. But you just refuse to engage with him on any meaningful level.’I believe the teachers in this country to be of such a high standard that they deserve the wage they get! And I for one am sick of people pointing out the European equivalent’ What is your basis for this belief? The FACTS and STATISTICS contradict you. But here are a few stories for you sense you don’t seem to be a big fan of facts or of logical debate. One of my old secondary school teachers used to regularly have ‘draw a picture competitions’ instead of class (granted this was Irish class in first year). Another disappeared for an hour during a double class after giving us work to do…..he came back wearing a new pair of shoes. This was in my leaving cert year!!!! So quite a few Irish teachers are bloody awful. The abuse the security of the position they from the first day they teach until the day they retire safe in the knowledge that they can never be fired.

Your right the focus of the article was not on teachers pay, but it probably should have been.

Yes. Was it because of Church control of schools?

Why didn’t u become a teacher then??