I totally agree with ya. Fight for whats yours.
But, also call a spade a spade and admit its a handy number. No nights, no weekends, christmas easter and summer hols and 2 bleeding mid terms. Incomparable to the likes of other public servants like nurses and the old bill.

Sean
Your right, maybe I didn’t articulate myself too well, but you obviously get my drift!

@Jammbie. What are you talking about!!! You haven’t a clue. I am a teacher and for your information, and all the other teacher/school bashers, I can tell you that I work most evenings until 11pm, marking/preparing lessons. I mark at the weekends and last year I spent every mid-term and the Christmas and Easter hols working with students for a debating competition (all unpaid and voluntary). Similar story this year. I don’t take a lunch break during school due to extra curricular work with students or extra help with things like project work. The vast majority of teachers in my school put in similar hours. Teachers are now coping with all society’s ills, they are teachers, nurses, counsellors, social workers even surrogate parents!!!! Like lots of other occupations with perks, we do have good summer holidays, which, FYI are being slowly eroded also, but lots of teachers work through these months, marking exams for example. I love my job and it is sickening to witness the constant attacking and attempts to undermine the profession. Back under your mossy stones all you clueless begrudgers.

Sascha

Swap with ya any day.
I’m lucky enough to work, but it’s 45km away from my home, 90km a day I have to work 12hr nights and weekends in a horrible factory for flat time. There’s no heating in winter no ventilation in summer, and no even sanitary facilities. I do about 6 different jobs compared to the so called boom years when i just did what i was qualified to do, and am on about 60% of what I was on 5 years ago and there’s no union protection.
Still feeling sorry for yourself.
Teacher= handy number, lán stad.

Jambbie. That’s not a pleasant number to have. Agreed. Actually quite similar to my husband’s situation. Like I said already, I love my job so I certainly don’t feel sorry for myself. I feel privileged to have this job. But it is not as ‘handy’ as some people like to think. Different stress points but stress none the less. Anyway, enough of the divide and conquer, public V private. That’s just what the fat cat politicians want!!

Sascha I applaud you and teachers like you. But I know from the teachers I meet through work that there are many teachers not like you. Many teachers that do the bare minimum. Many teachers that don’t ever go to in-service training to improve their skills.

Yep, Finnish system also has no inspectorate, working on basis that you train your teachers well enough then let them do their job. Couldn’t see that being accepted here, accountability is a preferred stick to beat teachers with.

I’m not sure but I think education allowances are being removed for any teacher who graduates from Jan 2012 not just new entrants? This means that an experienced teacher returning to education for masters/phD would no longer get the allowance. Obviously a disincentive to further training.

On strike action – the governments decision to cut ‘allowances’ (a misnomer as most allowances have always formed part of basic wage calculations) is a deliberately provocative move as it is a breach of Croke Park. Privately, the unions understand that this is to try to infuriate the membership and force withdrawal from Croke Park. Once Croke Park goes, the government can do as they wish regarding pay and conditions. Croke Park was an awful deal in the first place, especially for new entrants but it was ‘the only game in town’. I think the members will be balloted but I’m not convinced a strike would happen or withdrawal from Croke Park.

Teaching is going through a strange transition at the moment – losing the top tier of experience all in one go and not replacing with young blood at the other end due to embargo. There’s no longer a promotional system and no incentive for further training. While everyone is arguing about June, July and August, I’d be much more worried about the quality of teacher we can create and retain in these circumstances.

Here are some FACTS about salarys in the public sector:
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/2011/earnlabcosts_q42011.pdf

Average weekly earnings in Private sector for Q4 2011 – €614.99
Average weekly earnings in Public sector for Q4 2011 – €905.80

It says a lot about Teachers and the Unions they subscribe to, when it allows the government to pay new teachers a lot less than current ones! So much for sticking together! One for all and all that! They’re a bunch of greedy, selfish malingerers!!

@Stephen Hayden , It has always been a bugbear of mine , the so-called average industrial wage, by their very nature averages are contorted by the highest and lowest paid. I have been in various supervisory positions over the last 12 years or so, and have NEVER , taken home the ‘average wage’ , nowhere near it to be honest. I am not an entry level employee, I am experienced , and have always been paid more or less the market value for the job I do, so I really don’t know how these figures are arrived at. I fully take on your point about the difference between the sectors though!

Stephen, that comparison does make public sector workers appear to be on big money, I grant you that. However, this average comes from the pay of every public sector worker-nurses, teachers, gardai, hospital porters, consultants, and civil servants, including both those on low pay as well as those on €200,000 a year. Of course our wonderful politicians are also public sector workers so their salaries also contribute to this average.
The average public sector worker that I know, including myself, takes home about €500 per week. Thats as a senior nurse with 10 years experience. Very far from the “average” of €900, wouldn’t you say?
I think the media need to stop bandying these figures about as the very high salaries of senior civil servants and politicians are seriously skewing that average figure.

The average teachers salary is 57,000, that is excluding allowances, additional payments for “extra duties”, and current ongoing pension costs.

Yes the average is weighted by those overpaid at the top, the answer to this is to reduce the pay at the top. This will immediately be reflected in the average.

@Chris @Sara – I think my point is mainly that you know what you earn and it is the lower earners that get front row seats at the Union meetings etc. There is a silent group of people in the public sector earning a great, great wage and are using the lowest paid as sandbags to shield off pay cuts. That CSO report is proof that people are getting serious money. So who are they?

If you work in the public sector and earn a normal wage go into work tomorrow and have a look around. 1 in every handful of people is earning twice what you earn and doing the same job. They’ll never say it to you but they’ll tell you to get out in force with the union when cuts are talked about. They’ll be the most vocal in fact. Maybe take a look at those who are most active with the unions and you’ll get a sense of who they are. @Mike makes pretty much the same point. You’re out protesting for that a**hole who earns double your pay and does half the work. They must exist, the government are paying them.

@stephen , I totally accept what you are saying, and agree that the difference is shocking, even taking into account the nature of averages, there is a massive difference. I don’t get allowances , benefits-in-kind , or tax breaks, I get my salary , have to sort my life, no pensions, health insurance etc. I have two kids now , both hoping to head to university this year, have been a lone working parent for the last 10yrs, and honestly feel like I am being screwed from all directions,and for what? to give my children a good example, that the world doesn’t owe you a living, you go out and earn it, all well and good ’til our own government mugs us in our own homes

I understand that point of view, and have heard it before.

But please also consider this:

I doubt they will, even without the allowances the salary is far above what they will find in the private sector. Also they might miss the holidays and pension provisions. Also bear in mind that there are plenty of people willing to take the jobs on the dole at the moment.

I fully expect that allowances will be cut, they are a remnant of overspending during the celtic tiger, and cannot be justified while we borrow 14 Bn to plug our deficit. An allowance for a qualification not used in employment does not make sense, I have two, why would anyone pay me unless I use them?

Even without the allowances the irish teachers salaries after 10yrs service and longer are substantially greater than all counterparts in the eurozone. Consider what this means based on the current demographic of teachers.

Yes I accept that teaching is a difficult and challenging job, however I would challenge you to point out a similarly paid profession that is not challenging. Any teacher who expects to just lounge into anyone else’s profession will receive an equal wake up call, or perhaps greater.

This is not about private vs public…..it is about the rebalancing of public spending to reflect the reality of the recession. Report after report highlight the wastage in the system, and overspending, and salaries and benifits at odds with the country being bankrupt.

We all hope it will be over soon, not least the hundreds of thousands on the dole or emigrating.

But it will never end until we address our spending, and the enormous deficit, which is predominatly pay and pensions.

This is just the other point of view, for consideration.

I think most people appreciate the work that teachers do. I certainly can’t picture myself trying to manage 30 teenagers.

But you know, teachers need to stop the poor mouth routine. It’s like the most oppressed people ever thing that goes on. It’s a broken record now, and it shows a total lack of empathy with what other people in our society are enduring.

I think that is because they do it when they are supposed to be on their lunch break?

@Andrea, I do understand that point.

However, In fairness with 3 months holidays, and with the duty being shared between all the teachers, losing one lunch break a week is not much to ask.

How about a little give and take, and less greed please.

We are in recession, borrowing 14 Billion a year to cover our current spending deficit (excluding any bank repayments). We have to cut back and stop luxury payments, either that or tax the remaining private taxpayers to the hilt to pay for it all.

Everybodys allowances are up for grabs as far as this government is concerned except their own..Allowances to dry clean your clothes,lend your car to somebody else and claim expenses,or claim allowances for car that was given free of charge or driving to your holiday home and as long as you have a brief case with you then you can claim you working while you trave and claim allowancesl….Yup who was that minister one Ruairi Quinn hypocrite…No i am not a teacher but am sick of the government screwing everyone bar the chosen few in the dail,senad and retired tds in their haste to take every last cent from the hard pressed tax payer…accountable to nobody….i would rather have strikes in both the private and public sector than have hypocrites line their own pockets

Joan,I think you got lambasted for saying teachers are not accountable to anybody, when I think you meant its impossible to sanction or get rid of bad teachers.. Which is absolutely true.
More to the point, striking so close to exam time would be so rough on pupils.
Hope the unions see sense.