Do TUI union staff also get 180 days holidays a year or do they take on temporary work during school holidays?

Teachers don’t get 180 days holidays.

365-(52*2[weekends])-(35[weeks avg worked]*5)=86 days.

Also – if you think the pay & conditions are so excellent, I invite you to do a PGD or a 4yr course so that you can join the dole queue – I’ll see you here in 2017.

Where else do we find the savings in public spending?
Payroll and pensions is over 70% of the budget in many government departments.

David they should have started with proper reforms but instead the easy option hit pay.
Can you explain the fairness of B Cowen losing less than 8,000 out a pension of 150,000 and a front line worker losing 4,000 out a pay pack of around 40,000.
The government have the power to pass law to reduce pension’s,they were able to take .06% out of my tiny pension fund.

Your wonderful party and its members in parliament for a start David

I agree they should have gone much further on public sector pensions. It is obscene that Cowen is still on that much. No one should be on a pension of more than €100k, far less than that preferably.

But the target with Croke Park 2 is €1bn.

Even if we cancelled every bit of public money to politicians, you still have another €900m+ to find.

Any ideas?

David if they tackled the obscene pensions started a banking inquiry actually jailed some of the wrongdoers moral authority would have been on the government’s side but for whatever reason’s of Enda and co they chose not to.

David,

One shop closed in my city yesterday and this was a family-run business since the 1970’s. Sadly, the city lost a great asset to the culture, vibrancy and municipality. If the pay disparity is due to a troubled economy and this caused private companies to take the ultimate sacrifice, so should the government, which would then eliminate that disparity.

Your party are in government. You were elected to govern.

On What basis could the TUI reject the CP2 , they’re a Joke .What dreadful impact will CP2 have on them ?I supose we’ll have leaving certs kids held to ransom ! I do respect the teaching profession and acknowledge that in some cases its a tough job but their unions are a disgrace .By and large Teachers have it good in this country with the exception of new entrants that were sold down the river by their own unions that gave it the boo hoo after the fact pretending the gave crap, They can talk all the Sh*t they want , they are amongst the best paid in the OECD . They have massive holidays.I am private sector and support frontline workers Garda and Nurses but the teachers and very highly paid lecturers , the AHCPS can go ……. . .

Reginald, keep taking the money out if the average public sectors wages and there will be nothing left to spend in the little corner shop.. No disposable income = no spending…

But that’s what u wanted after all, isn’t it?

Already the case. Over a third of families now have less than €40 a month left after paying utilities and rent or mortgage.
That’s why your family business closed.
A closure repeated all over the country.

@Tensing Norgay

You are correct in your assertion that Irish teachers are among the best paid in the OECD. However, I would suggest that your comments are a little disingenuous as they neglect the other aspects of OECD findings into Irish education. The first is that, as we all know, Ireland is one of the most expensive countries to live in the OECD. This is despite an alleged period of deflation in Ireland. If we look into the specifics of Irish teachers and compare them to their OECD counterparts, we should also acknowledge the following.

1) Irish teachers teach 20% more hours than their OECD counterparts, despite the longer holidays which you correctly mention in your post.
2) Irish teachers teach the second biggest class sizes in the OECD.
3) Irish teachers provide extra-curricular activities, mainly on a voluntarily basis. In other OECD countries, these extra-curricular activities are extra payments for teachers.
4) Even during the Celtic Tiger years, the Irish government contributed the second least in terms of investment in education. So, even if you take the disputed statistic that 71% of the DES budget is spent on pay and pensions, it is 71% of the second least invested in education system in the OECD.
5) Irish teachers do not have the same opportunities at career progression as their OECD counterparts. In other OECD countries, Heads of Subject and Heads of Faculty are paths to career progression for teachers. This is not offered in Ireland.
6) Irish teachers are not given the same level of access to Continuous Professional Development as their OECD counterparts.
7) Irish teachers are liable to more inspections and oversight than many of their OECD counterparts.

If we are to compare, then let’s at least compare accurately.

Sacha Mahady
” The problem is the over pensioned public sector double jobbers.” Who also pay tax ,,, The problem is the wealthy who are not paying the appropriate tax , the foreign corporations who do not even pay the required corporate tax. Do not buy into the divide and conquer mentality, please. ALL workers private and public are suffering .

I’m in the education system right now…..

Candy I was a little more ambitious than that…….

And what exactly are the people’s wishes?

People don’t want more taxes meaning that spending must be cut.

Payroll and pensions is the vast majority of public spending….

What ‘people want’ is your beloved party to stop handing billions of our money out to unguaranteed bondholders at the drop of a hat, and then threaten teachers, gurads and nurses a few days later to shake them down for extra cash to fill the gap.

David – Payroll and pensions is the vast majority of public spending….

You would expect that it is. It’s the public SERVICE and as such you should expect that! That’s not to say that appropriately targeted cuts are unreasonable but this idea of continuously throwing up your arms and saying “where do you expect it to come from?” answers nothing and is the vaguest “tough luck” attitude ever.

So let’s hear some specifics – in what way would you target cuts?

Well afaik the Dublin city branch of impact have overwhelmingly voted against crime park 2. Watch this space…

Quite possible ICTU as we know may be coming to an end because of the voting block held by SIPTU AND IMPACT they can still drive this deal through leaving the other union’s no option but to withdraw from ICTU members in these union’s really need to have their voice heard by O Connor and Coady

Wow ! and I am often accused of being pessimistic ….
Ha ha… Well something is happening now . And will continue to
happen too , til this proposalis rejected entirely along with the property tax and water metering
Labour are dead in the water Fg are a dying breed FF ….We will never forget .
Cheer up C.P.Horan . It will happen. :)

The big losers are the union bosses who are on big bucks. They would be pressured into accepting paycuts in line with whats on offer. Thats why these weasels are advocating a no vote. Looking after themselves.

Well there’s such a thing as solidarity!

Carl , maybe their union is top heavy with principle teachers on their executive,

As a teacher and having had a quick look at the Croke Park 2 document, there are a couple of things that will happen.
The first is that the supervision and substitution work which is the life blood of all newly qualified teachers will be taken away. This cover will be provided by other fulltime teachers for no extra pay.
A full time teachers will have to provide cover for up to 5 extra classes per week. This on top of the extra 35 hours per year that they already due for no extra pay.
Allowances have been earmarked for abolition.
Between the loss of qualification allowances and substitution payments, this will mean a loss of about €6,000 per year for full time teachers and newly qualified teachers being left destitute. Some teachers have already lost about 20% of their take home pay already whilst doing more work. Others have had their hours slashed.
As well, there is scope for those at the top of their pay scale to lose 6 days leave per year or the monetary value of those 6 days.
Implementation of these plans will remove any goodwill remaining from the teaching profession.

I agree with Seán, I can take the pay-cut, the country’s finances aren’t great, we all know that. But this is a killer deal for a young teacher who only has 5 or 6 hours work a week. They need the supervision and substitution hours just to break even and pay their bills. Nobody could live on 5 or 6 hours a week work with all the deductions that come out of it. Its going to be an interesting few weeks.

I think the goodwill factor is one that is often over-looked. I know that in theory, as a teacher, I’m supposed to be grateful to have a job etc… People assume that as our time tabled hours are from 9 to 4 we have short days and long holidays. What’s not to like?
In reality, I’m in school from 8 until 5 or 6. I give several extra classes in my free time, during lunch and after school. My school offers free after school study four days a week and I supervise this voluntarily. I run a drama club during lunch once a week. That’s before I even think about preparing for my classes or correcting students’ work which takes between 2 and 3 hours each night.
I am tutor to a class group and dealing with their issues and problems takes up most of my “free classes”.
I’m not looking for a pat on the back. I’m lucky enough to have a job I love, work in a school I love and teach fabulous kids from all walks of life.
Teachers don’t want thanks, just don’t take it all for granted.

Education is our lifeblood for gods sake.
Teachers provide that education.
If we want to improve our county’s lot we need education.
It costs what it costs – if the government cant add it up – its their problem not the teachers.

60,000? Try 1,400 a month after tax!!! It’s only the ones near retirement on that kind of money you speak of

Time we all started rejecting government actions!!

Don’t ever change, Adebayo.

Christine
Do you not reply to emails ? What is your policy on responding to queries ? Please .

I won’t. But back to business, I don’t think we should put the clock back because most kids get dropped to school these days anyway.

And Christine, you are not allowed any time off. Reply to all emails, all the time. 24/7-365.

I gotta run,
Adebayo

Life would be fantastic then. Anarchy on the streets- why haven’t we thought of this one before?

Who said anything about anarchy?

Allez le unions!

Christine ,
I have written emails to Hugh and Gavan and yourself asking why I can not post since I gave a press statement from CAPTA/ CAHWT on 12th Feb . Has the journal been got at ? Have you all succombed to capitalists pressure ?

Manners cost nothing A reply would be welcome .
Thank You .

I see that the commenters with multi identities are still posting away with their propaganda all the same. :)

Alreight Flynner ya sinner. How is u today u bedouin, crazy dog u is cause i thinks u thinks u is black

Only one account and I am private sector, sorry Susie.

ADEBAYO FLYNN
Don’t take this too harshly , but I am not , NOT, referring to yo at all. I saw Christine had made a comment under yours and I am taking this opportunity to address her as she , nor Gavan , nor Hugh have had the common manners to reply to any of my polite emails since Feb 14th.
They know who the ones are who have multi identities and have known for some time.
Your comment about being private sector makes no sense to me ?
But Have a good day and maybe Christine might reply to my e mails under my own name. I have had to resort to setting up a new a/c , Which I object to doing , as I can stand over everything I say, just to contact this forum!!!

If it’s a Fianna Fáil government that takes the place of this one, don’t expect Europe to take any extra notice. They were the ones that led us into the bailout into the first place, and on terrible terms too.

David don’t forget your outfit are continuing the destruction FF set in motion.

David, most adjustments have been taxed focused. Real spending cuts are needed. The type of spending cuts required are at least 30%. This requires politicians to step-up to the mark. Why isn’t it happening? More taxes (property and water) won’t conceal this spending. If anything, it will be seen as an attack on the people, in which case they may vote you out of office. I’m guessing that is possible.

Hey Reggie, let us know what happened in Greece or Latvia! Must take a holiday there soon! Oh wait, cannot afford it!

Completely agree Reg. Ideally there’d be much more spending cuts however Labour leans the government towards tax increases. After all they promised the electorate a 50:50 split.

Really? And wheres all these tax increases david? If the current taxes in place were enforced effectively e.g. the corporate tax rate, we would take in TEN TIMES the savings sought under CP2.

Great so you want to take €10bn out of the economy in one go with extra taxes. I’m sure that’ll work out just fine…

Yes, and everyone knows that in an office job half the so-called working hours are downtime at the coffee machine or shopping in the Internet. There’s no down time in a classroom. I know. I’ve done it.

Ali, Not all teachers are on 60k a year. I have another 11 years before I hit that target. I’ve been in the job 9 already. As for 9-4, I wish.

Yes, if you believe the bloated rhetoric spewed from the months of ministers. They are threats employed to terrify you into submission

And then the Public Sector will initiate strikes etc, hopefully the rest of the country might get behind them and we will finally see some push for real change from the population at large.

Let the government legislate. At least whatever happens, it cannot be said that the workers agreed to it.

Ah yeah and that won’t mind a few months of no schools, no taxes being collected no one serving them at the dail bar and loosing 200,000 votes. Sure it’ll be grand

Not so can’t see labour TDs voting for legislation against the wishes of their core vote the public sector workforce it would bring the complete destruction of the party in Ireland furthermore it would open the door to a whole host of legal challenges

@ Schnucs. Yea – It’s called bullying.

Tax payers money?
13 years in school?
Can’t speak English?

Straight2pt – you poor poor man. I understand the pain you are suffering, for i too often wonder why them lazy teachers never spent all their class time trying to teach my dumb ass. I mean, i was the coolest cat a class of 24, so cool i would usually just shout and roar and be disruptive in class, sure i knew everything anyways. Poor poor me, i suppose Im 100% entitled to blame my babysitters, sorry, i meant teachers, for my lack of education. And, when she wasn’t out drinking and making more tax burdening babies, my mammy always said them teachers were shite anyways, with their big educations and all, definitely not my fault.

Yep, i too spent 13 years scratching my ass, thinking i was billy big bolloc*s in school. And look at me now, not a word of out Irish out of me! Tut tut tut, poor Michael Collins would be rolling in his grave.

So yes, poor straight2pt (probably his real name too god bless him) has had to endure a hard life ever since. And not because hes more than likely a useless lazy bar steward who was raised to think no better and blame all his woes on the teachers/government/gardai/his parole officer/case worker – No no, its them useless lazy teachers who got into a profession by working very hard at a degree and going onto absolute shite jobs with starting take home salaries of 15k a year.

How dare the teachers betray me and my friend Straight2pt, its just not fair. What about meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?

Seriously, the teacher bashing is getting a tad old. Tell you what, I’ll take you to work with me and you can see for yourself the calibre of work a teacher does.

Everyone works hard ……for most of the year!

You don’t know what you are talking about Mr .Murphy !

@Gerry -Typical ignorance of teaching profession. Try to deal with your jealousy/negative past experiences of teachers rather than carry them with you through life!

Yes I work 22 hours a week. I earn an 8-month salary which is paid out over 12. As a counsellor I can easily put in an extra 8/10 extra unpaid hours per week. Preparing lessons and correcting student work can vary greatly but I tend to average about 15 also unpaid hours per week. I recently put on a Talent show in school to boost self-confidence in our students; unpaid, 150+ hours since November. Trying to justify my profession to people like you Gerry, who don’t have to think about work when they leave at the end of the day, is another unpaid, unending job!

Try it, or shut up criticising it!

So Gerry, when’s the last time you thought a class? Please don’t mouth about something you obviously have absolutely no clue about………

Sorry for being a pedant Ronan, but when’s the last time you “thought” a class?

“Try it, or shut up criticising it!” Much as I like Purcell solidarity Michael, that argument makes no sense. No commenter here is allowed walk into a school and teach a class, so what you’re basically saying is equivalent to someone being unable to criticise our current government without becoming an elected TD first.

Michael you need to go work in the private sector to find out what’s life is really like outside your protected world!

You’re right of course Stephen, but that typo was actually for Gerry to see how he might get on correcting his first English homework……my trap has been foiled..

Tut tut Ronan “thought”???? Now pay attention!!!!

…..& you do Dwayne???? The teacher must not be questioned!

I certainly won’t be paying much “attention” to what you have to say anyway

ignorance is a virtue gerry. Oh wait, did i get that wrong? F**k it, blame the teachers

hi friend

You obviously weren’t paying attention at all.