@Ron, What are you shiting on about? Western values. Do you know what that even means?

Good man Wally, Thats some fine cutting and pasting but no one reads your essays!

Wally, there are times that people will entertain your convoluted copy and paste jargin packed nonsense. Now is not one of these times.

Wally by that definition then the whole of Africa and the far east should be attacking western Europe over the dark past of colonialism?, but they don’t, Islam goes much deeper its the medieval ideology that is the main problem, where ever Islam exists in the world there is usually trouble.

Give it a rest Wally and have some respect at least for a few hours.
Your half baked copy and paste nonsense is a complete cop out

Have some respect? Seriously? The article is linked, if you took the time to read it you might learn something. Nothing Chris Hedges does is half baked.

Chris Hedges pays the dead far more respect in analyzing and documenting the material conditions which led to their murders than any of the simplistic kneejerk anti Islamic bile which if taken to it’s logical conclusion will ultimately result in more innocent dead.

Wally that post is completely out of tune. I know what it means to say and I respect it but it is way out of tune.

William,
You may recall that it wasn’t too long ago that some Irish people were attacking “western Europe (Britain) over the dark past of colonialism”.
We are all a product of our environments to a greater or lesser degree.

I nodded off after the first line.

@Wally How did I know someone would try and blame Israel, although I don’t agree with your comment being removed… It’s disgusting, Israel has to put up with these kind of attacks on a weekly basis; luckily however they are well used to Islamic terror so there are always police on the alert and usually the perpetrator is killed before doing “serious” (I say that relative to this attack) damage.

I don’t want to live how the Israeli’s live, or how the French are increasingly having to live. This is happening too often.

Jengis,
If anyone has lost family or friends in the Nice attack, they’re highly unlikely to be reading the Journal. For the rest of us, the most important question is “Why? and Hedges has done us a service in trying to provide an answer.

@wally – No one wants to read your communist tripe.

Your nonsense of trying to explain why this happens does nothing to help stop this happening.
The situation is too far gone now for any real solution and your contrary smartest guy in the room angle is insufferable and unhelpful.
What would you suggest Wally, what do you think is the best course of action to take now?

I think Wally would agree that if we just got rid of irish Water, all of the muslims would be happy again!

You mean you read the first line Paul Freeman? If I see AAA coming up I get ready to scroll, if has Wally’s name under I nearly poke myself in the belly button such is my eagerness to escape the trauma.

Fintan Stack I believe understand that to not understands western values means we have no time for the vile system of sharia that many islamists want to impose on us. So these values would mean having a drink which included alcohol, listening to music, reading poetry, dancing with a stranger, for some it would include have a relationship somebody of the same sex as you and for all girls who have reached puberty no fear if being sold off as a wife, you know waiting till you had enough sense to make your own mind up; even making your own mind up on marriage. Get a grip and don’t be fooled by the passive aggression that is sharia because it won’t stay passive forever and recent events in France should have shown you that,

It’s racists and islamophobes like you that are part of the overall problem Ron you plank.

I think what Ron said is spot on we need to rein them in they are here to take over not integrate,England are trying to take their Country back but I am afraid it is to late . They are all about building mosques no shortage of money for that but you never hear them say they will build a school why because they will take over a school .

John O’ Neil that aul racist card is getting worn very thin, it is not racist to want to protect the culture you live in, nor is it racist to make it known that your are proud of it. What is racist is to move to a country and ignore it’s culture in favour of the one yoo want to impose. Now if you look into sharia you will see that Islam has a lot to be phobic about. Go on have little read, start on the age of consent, work your way over to women’s rights, the rights of non believers and take a break before going to the section about culture or the banning of all things cultural.

Queue racists trying to exploit this violence to detain and deport anyone not like them in 5 … 4 … 3 … 2 … 1

See didn’t take long. And you can’t be racist against a religion dopey.

Religion as a hole!!

Queue people detracting from the article in the hopes of getting green thumbs rather than focus on the fact over 80 people were murdered. Grow up and have a little bit of respect. Disgusting.

Anyone who makes a connection between terrorism and Islam is called a RACIST. The killings are the acceptable consequences of multiculturalism and political correctness.

It took exactly 5 minutes.

Anyone who says the Irish and the IRA are the same thing is called racist but if you look at it the vast majority of IRA were Irish. We can’t ignore that something about Irish culture makes you a terrorist. That is not racist it is just a fact, there culture is violent without respect for rule of law. We need to stop Irish people travelling because we just can’t take risk. Not racist!

Can I just say that I think it’s pathetic the way this comment board is. People have been killed by a person with deluded ideologies and people here see it more fit to blame an entire population of a certain religion

It’s “Cue…” ;)

I know Kevin but I didn’t want to confuse them….

Sorry dopey. Irish are indeed a race, so that is in fact racist, religion spans many races, it poisons the mind of all of them, and if you think the gardai don’t have Muslims under constant supervision here your dreaming.

The thing is, being Irish doesn’t mean you proscribe to a shared set of beliefs, whereas being Muslim means you proscribe to the ideology of Islam. Beliefs are a choice, race is not. That’s why your analogy is flawed.

Cormac you are a seriously deluded fool trying to compare a guerilla nationalist group like the IRA to these international Islamist terrorists whose only goal is to kill as many innocent civilians as possible. Give over with your crap this early in the morning!

@nikki I respect these people too much that I will passionately voice my concerns until this issue is resolved. Because how many more times are we expected to pray for another terrorist attack until actual action is taken. Giving your condolences and forgetting about it a week later is nothing but disrespectful. I will never forget about the lives lost due to dangerous religious ideologies and failed politics because I DO have respect. Get off your high horse because you just look disgusting.

@Cormac Mulhall

“”Anyone who says the Irish and the IRA are the same thing is called racist but if you look at it the vast majority of IRA were Irish. We can’t ignore that something about Irish culture makes you a terrorist. That is not racist it is just a fact, there culture is violent without respect for rule of law. We need to stop Irish people travelling because we just can’t take risk. Not racist!”"

YOU REALLY DO POST BRAINLESS CRAP.

@jimmy did I direct my comment at you? No so pipe down and stop trying to stir the pot. You hadn’t commented when I posted so about out and mind your business good man.

Agreed. Today is a day to show solidarity with the people of Nice and France. Don’t even be embarrassed to shed a tear or say a prayer for all those innocents mowed down and their families and friends but please, please, please at this time save us the “Wally Wanka” drivel, just for once.

Anyone who makes a connection between terrorism and western imperial wars of aggression against Muslim countries will realise that racism is just scapegoating!

Family and friends of those killed and injured in this mindless attack are in hell this morning. Their lives are changed forever. Their pain and suffering can never be measured. They have been plunged into darkness because of the evil deed perpetrated by the driver of the truck and others behind this attack.

Just because the IRA were Irish doesn’t mean all Irish people are terrorists. And what you said about we cannot ignore something about the irish culture makes you a terrorist – some people in Ireland wouldn’t hurt a fly we’re not all psychopaths. Just because some people I’m a religion are killers and terrorists doesn’t mean the whole religion is.

Edward Irish are not a race you pleb, we’re Caucasian. It’s a stereotype to say we’re all “terrorists” or whatever. It’s also a stereotype to say all Muslims are terrorists too.

@cormac
That was the thinking of many people in the UK through the 70s 80s and 90s. And in the early days many Irish people supported the aims of the PIRA. The difference is it was not cultural it was political. There was a solvable problem and when people worked together towards a solution the violence abated.
Islamic terrorism’s goal is a complete subjugation of Western culture and values. I don’t think there is a practical peaceful solution.

@Awkward Seal

The vast majority of Irish people during the troubles were both Catholic and supported the idea of a united Ireland, while believing that the UK presence in the North was wrong.

That seems like a shared set of belief to me, does it not?

But lets say we limit it only to people who believe in a united Ireland. So now we have a shared set of beliefs the UK would be justified in stopping all Irish who held that belief from travelling? (I think at the hight of the troubles that percentage was 85% and included most major political parties)

@craba

I’m not following how that is relevant. Are you saying people would be ok with wahhabism if it had an achievable political goal? I think it does have a political goal, the formation of the caliphate.

I think what you are actually saying is we don’t see connection with the IRA because we believed their cause was just and fair, where as we don’t with ISIS. That is rather beside the point though since the IRA were blowing up shopping centres and having a just political goal doesn’t make people less dead, wouldn’t you agree?

@ron

Sorry if me holding up a mirror to the fact that Ireland is a breeding ground for terrorism upsets you. Trump should have held strong to his original pledge to ban all people from countries with a history of terrorism, rather than caving to the leftiest pushing the pro-Irish agenda. We need to stop Irish people travelling until we can be sure they aren’t in the IRA

(anyone thinking that is nonsense, no actually Trump’s wording of his original plan really would have put Ireland on the list of countries who’s citizens were banned from entering the US. Of course when Trump’s people realised this he quickly “clarified” that he wasn’t talking about the Irish. Cause we don’t look scary I guess)

@PaulJ

I’m not sure how calling the IRA a “guerilla nationalist group” makes the British people they killed any less dead.

If I call ISIS anti-imperialist freedom fighters does that make their victims less dead as well?

Wow, history really is written by the victors, isn’t it.

@Cormac There is a difference between believing in something someone else believes in and sharing an ideology, a prescribed set of beliefs. For instance if I don’t belief in the tenants if Islam can I call myself a Muslim? No I can’t. However I can still call myself Irish regardless of my beliefs.

Islam is not a race. An Irishman could be Muslim

@awkward seal

Pretty sure Catholicism is a shared set of beliefs, as is Irish Republicanism.

Given that these are both the vast majority of what Irish people during the troubles subscribed to don’t you agree that the best safest course of action would have been for the British to stop Irish people leaving entering the country?

@john

Thing is John when people complain about dangerous Muslims they aren’t really talking about Ellen Burstyn.

They are talking about Mohammad such and such from Yeman or Nigeria or Pakistan.

Racial prejudice plays a major role in what Muslims people find scary.

I don’t agree with your premise, as not all Irish are Catholic or Republicans but I agree that racial profiling would have helped reduce terrorism as most Republican terrorists were Irish and Catholic. It’s un-pc to say it though.

Cormac – you strike me as one who hasn’t a notional shard of Irish history, or a true appreciation of it.

@Cormac

In summary my argument is that political terrorism generally has some peaceful solution, Cultural terrorism does not.

Also

“I think what you are actually saying is we don’t see connection with the IRA because we believed their cause was just and fair”

If you took that meaning from my post, you have a serious problem with basic English comprehension.

But not necessarily jihad and especially not the ISIS version.

@craba

And how again does that stop the victims of either form of terrorism getting killed? Would you be ok with a person driving a bus through a crowd in Nice if his political ideology had a peaceful solution?

Palestinians blow themselves for a cause that has a peaceful solution, that ok?

” you have a serious problem with basic English comprehension.”

I was being charitable. Other interpretations of what you are saying are far worse.

@jengis

No I’m just not someone who thinks terrorism is ok just so long as it is our side doing it.

It is truly mind bogging how ignorant some people can be.

Deport the fecking lot

Agreed Marti, if we can’t tell who is a dangerous Irish Republican terrorist the safest corse of action is deport all Irish people. Republicans look just like normal Irish people, the Irish community hides them inside their communities rather than routing them out.

Deport them all. Otherwise how can we be safe?

Cormac

There are many comparison between the IRAs terrorism from the 70′s 80s and 90s.and that of Islamic Terrorists and the reaction to many in the UK during those times was exactly as you describe.

But remember that the majority of Irish people did not support the IRA. Most Irish newspapers condemned them. Successive Irish governments were working with the UK government to share security information and find a peaceful workable solution

There is nobody on the ISIS terrorists side interested in a peaceful workable solution. There only interest is in the complete destruction of Western values.

@craba

“There is nobody on the ISIS terrorists side interested in a peaceful workable solution”

I’m pretty sure lots in ISIS would want a peaceful solution. Why would they want to fight to establish a world wide caliphate if they could do it peacefully?

The problem isn’t they don’t want a peaceful solution, the problem is that what they want is so unreaonsble to everyone else that everyone is resisting them because no one wants to give in.

You will notice that no one wanted to give into the IRA either. That is what makes terrorist organisations terrorist organizations, they can’t get what they want without terror and violence.

Cormac,

The provisional republican terror organisation had two strands, a political strand and a paramilitary strand. Sinn Fein & the IRA. They worked together to attempt to achieve their goals. For the most part, terrorism was targeted for political gain.

ISIS terror is targeted at the complete and total destruction of western values. There is no peaceful way to achieve this, and hence there is no peaceful way to solve the problem

From the quantity and content of your posts, i am beginning to think that Cormac may not be your “christian” name, and choosing Mulhall as a surname may be an anagramatic play on words

@craba

“There is no peaceful way to achieve this”

Sure there is. Everyone in the west lays down their arms and surrenders to being ruled by the ISIS caliphate.

How is that any less “peaceful” than the British surrendering control of the Northern Ireland to the Dublin government and withdrawing all forces out of the country back to England. The IRA didn’t achieve this goal, peaceful other otherwise, hence the splinter groups who consider the IRA and SF to be traitors without legitimacy to represent them.

You seem to be confusing “no peaceful solution” with “no solution one side is prepared to tolerate”.

I’m not sure why you are confusing that when I already explained the difference. But again I am no a phone so I don’t mind explaining it twice.

Not all muslims believe the same thing, I know many who claim to be muslim but drink and eat pork.

There is plenty of horrific shit in the Bible calling for certain people to be killed yet christians have no problem with saying they are christian.

I wish humanity would grow up and stop looking to ancient goat herders for moral guidance

Also France and the UK and other colonialists need to take responsibility for what was done in the past, if you do allow in people from countries which were brutalised and exploited in the name of empire and which paid for the building of great European cities then you have a responsibility to ensure these people are integrated completely and not ghettoized and discriminated against otherwise you are just breeding contempt and we will see more of this horror.

“Not all muslims believe the same thing”

What a crazy radical shocking idea. I suspect that won’t go down very well on this forum

Edward. Have a read
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-considine/muslims-are-not-a-race_b_8591660.html

@Cormac

IRA reason for war, was because part of Irish territory is under the rule of a foreign power, its called fighting to get your land back. They are not directed by christianity to do this.

To compare that with islam which in the koran DOES direct people to attack and subjugate “kuffars” (non-muslims), no matter where they are in the world, is incorrect.

”We charge and command all and singular the nobles, subjects, peoples and others afore said that they do not dare obey her [Queen Elizabeth] orders, mandates and laws. Those who shall act to the contrary we include in the like sentence of excommunication.” Have a guess who said that

I guess all the thumbs downers lack reasoning or logical thought or they just hate the truth

@Cormac

Oh so when protestants left the catholic church, you think the catholic pope felt there was no right to command his flock not to obey a heretical break away religion? And I do not see where it commands them to kill and attack protestants, there is only threat of excommunication.

But that has nothing to do with the IRA, which fought the British because they were seen as occupying Ireland not because of their religion. You are simply wrong.

“Oh so when protestants left the catholic church, you think the catholic pope felt there was no right to command his flock not to obey a heretical break away religion?”

What?

You said this conflict was nothing to do with religion. Now you (seem to be) saying it was to do with religion, but the Pope had a “right” to do this

“But that has nothing to do with the IRA”

The vast majority of the IRA were Catholic and were fighting a long history of sectarian oppression at the hands of protestant power structure.

If you think Catholic vs Protestant issue had nothing to do with the North you need to open a history book.

Also if you think the fighting in the middle east is as simple as well the Quran says go kill non-believers you really need to open any book, history or otherwise, on the middle east. Do you even know about the different sects of Islam, and the countless territorial struggles they have had?

Its like saying the century of religious wars in Europe were arguing over if the Pope should have a hat or not.

Thats half the doctors in the country

Yeah Seth but other religions have modernised and exist happily within secular societies, not so Islam this sick religion seems to be in total reverse mode?. and its not just its propensity for barbaric terror attacks, but misogyny and homophobia are also widespread within its ranks, often preached in many Mosques all around the world.

For the life of me I can’t see one positive thing that the spread of Islam across freedom loving secular societies it can bring apart from the odd decent kebab shop?.

I’d say colonization, then religion thrown in to radicalize the suffering nation raped by another.

@Solvable Knave

A lot of the crusades were in response to Islamic invasions into Europe. They weren’t just a load of Christians deciding lets kill brown people. Christian civilisations like Britain started and enforced an end to slavery in Europe. Islamists believe homosexuality is immoral and kill them to this day while they can get married in Catholic Ireland.

William your ignorant to the fact that at this moment, Muslims are going toe to toe with isis while you sit in your ivory tower. You hero. More Muslims die at their hands than westerners.

@Joe Muslims are also throwing gay men off roofs, stoning rape victims to death and beating their wives.

Good Muslims are good Muslims in spite of Islam, not because of it. It is an abhorrent, backwards ideology that thankfully some Muslims are ignoring.

Well Joe there must be a major problem within the Islamic world when slaughtering each other is common place, almost par for the course?.

I agree the west have made huge mistakes by colluding or invading to topple dictatorships in the middle east, at least these tyrants by in large kept the religious nuts in check, their biggest mistake of all was turning their backs on the Shah of Iran allowing the Ayatollah Khomaniac to seize power, ever since that so called Iranian revolution the gulf region, middle east and North Africa have become proverbial tinder boxes basically because the religious nuts were let loose, by dictatorship standards within that region the Shah was a virtual pussy cat.

BTW Joe have you noticed that all minorities within predominately Islamic nations are persecuted at best and in many cases slaughtered at worst?.

@the asian nightmare

” Muslims are also throwing gay men off roofs”

And republicans are blowing up cars and shopping centres. Yet you claim to be a republican.

“Good Muslims are good Muslims in spite of Islam, not because of it. ”

Good republicans are good in spite of republicanism. You just have to look at the IRA to see what republicanism is really about. When you see a republican who isn’t supporting terrorism they aren’t really a republican.

Followed closely by nationalism, racism and good old capitolism

real crusades history
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcGzQ3ga5R8

J. Stephen Roberts holds a degree in medieval history and has researched and written about the Crusades for over fifteen years.

A Degree? Lol!

@Tariq

It doesn’t even take a degree to research facts. Any person can be a historian, just go and dig up facts from primary sources and you would already be a greater historian than most in modern “academia” who simply include a few primary sources but then regurgitate the manure produced from their other “historian pals” in other universities and then manipulate by inclusuion/exclusion a story pieced together from their own subjective conclusion and angled persuasion/bias.

I guess someone having a degree is impressive to people who think wahhabi is a type of Japanese mustard.

@stevenocarroll

lol, yeah but to be fair, some people are better at it than others.

This guy is a youtube blogger who writes Game of Throne style novelisations about the Crusades. Nothing wrong with that, but hardly a world leading expect.

@Cormac,Plus 1!

@Cormac

No, I don’t think having a degree is impressive. But if I had not provided a source, people like you would be screaming for a source. As I said ordinary people can post historical facts and in my experience far better than historians in academia who are trained to publish only material that agrees with the status quo and multicultural agenda, anything else and they are not hired in universities etc, career finished.

@Cormac

And then you go and prove my first point by saying “This guy is a youtube blogger who writes Game of Throne style novelisations about the Crusades.”

just ignore the fact they get their facts from PRIMARY sources. Too inconvenient for you, which is why you divert attention away from that and try to smear the messangers instead of addressing the facts they publish, facts, not fiction.

It is quite extraordinary how you will attack and falsify christian history despite the evidence to the contrary of your lies, yet you will ignore the facts which show the real barbarism and latent hate in all the texts and actions carried out in the name of islam, yet you are an apologist and excuse-maker for that, amazing cognitive dissonance.

You’re some gobsh!te with the same surname… #ashamed

Guess what Ross NO LIVING FRENCH MAN WAS ALIVE BACK THEN. Why should they care! You disgusting sub human

Val, Its YOU who is always defending Islam. It is people of YOUR train of thought that let these people in, allowed by the “useful idiots” as Lenin put it. Aka ‘Progressives’, this blood is on every godd*mn Islamic Apologist’s hands. And believe me Val your hands are as red as any.

1.6 billion muslims in the world.it s up to them to sort this one because we cant.nor will d trump or drowns.

I’ve a trip to Euro Disney Paris planned for December n by f●●k am I letting these murderous b●●●●rds stop me, solidarity with France God bless all the victims

Why not? It would help solve the problem. Also we can seriously limit immigration from the muslim world, oh but wait, we can’t do that because thats racism right? I think the time has come to stop worrying about people’s sensibilities and take affirmative action no matter how immoral or uncomfortable it may seem. The protection of our citizens is far more important and should never be second to anything else, especially to that of upsetting a growing, agressive muslim population in Europe.

You have serious anger issues AgGuyWithARant…

Well said awkward seal, will we see hundreds of thousands of Muslims mobilised across the Islamic world and among the muslim communities of secular societies condemning the latest barbarism carried out in their name?, like hell we will!.

What’s your solution Corpach?

Yes WIlliam why would expect to see that…. sure its not like we have seen thousands of Muslims mobilized across the Muslims world condemning terrorism after every major terrorist attack over the last 20 years. Oh no sir bob!

I some times wonder if racism and bigotry would be cured over night if we just made people read a news paper once in a while. Ignorance breeds bigotry which breeds ignorance

Well considering their vast numbers Cormac imo the condemnation amongst the Islamic world amounts to nothing much more than lip service, and its no secret that a very large minority actually support these type of barbaric attacks.

“Well considering their vast numbers Cormac imo the condemnation amongst the Islamic world amounts to nothing much more than lip service,”

Well a minute ago William there was no condemnation, now there isn’t enough.

Seems like you don’t really have a clue what you are talking about and would be mad no matter what the Islamic world did. But some how calling you a racist would be unfair.

Well said.

Work with community leaders to prevent radicalisation and address the persecution narrative the young people in those communities internalise. Quiliam does this in the UK, I think you might find Maajid Nawaz very interesting in this respect.

Of top of head every year they fast for days to remember and experience the suffering of those less fortunate than them. What aspects or tenets of Irish Republican movement do you believe are good and praise worthy?