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THE LABOUR PARTY has pulled out of talks to form a “progressive alliance” on Dublin City Council citing disagreements over the council-controlled Local Property Tax.
Talks about a potential alliance of parties on the left have been underway since the Social Democrats, the Green Party, Sinn Féin and the Labour Party all met for talks last week.
The discussions are now continuing without Labour with the three parties considering the potential inclusion of left-leaning independent councillors, The Journal understands.
The Local Property Tax (LPT) was introduced in 2013 and councillors have the power to reduce or increase it by 15% either side of the baseline level; they has consistently voted to keep a reduced rate in recent years.
The LPT is an annual charge on all residential properties in the State; if you own a property you must pay the tax.
The amount a household pays is based on the value of the property, which is self-assessed. There are 20 different LPT bands to cover increasing property values.
The LPT is designed so that it has a base rate but may be modified at the discretion of local authorities.
Labour’s new leader among its four elected councillors, Darragh Moriarty, told The Journal that lower LPT rates in recent years have cost the city millions.
“We in Labour have consistently voted to maintain a relief at baseline level and we want maintenance at baseline level for next five years to be intrinsic to any coalition agreement. And that’s what we’re calling for very strongly,” he said.
In a statement, Labour said it will only consider supporting a governing alliance on “that is willing to adopt a progressive approach in relation to the Local Property Tax”.
“Over the course of the next council term, just by maintaining the LPT at its baseline instead of cutting it by 15% again, we can secure an additional €72.5 million to put into Dublin,” Moriarty said.
That position is in direct opposition to that of Sinn Féin, who Moriarty said will not budge on the issue.
“I wish Labour had raised that with us,” said Sinn Féin councillor Daithí Doolan in response.
“They had the opportunity to put it into the programme, and they didn’t. They didn’t attempt to amend the programme that we’re drafting at the moment, nothing’s written in stone.”
Doolan also said that Sinn Féin’s position on the tax “isn’t up for negotiation” because the party is in favour of abolishing it and has run on the promise of reducing it.
“We will use our mandate to reduce it by the maximum we can of 15% every year,” he said.
According to Social Democrats councillor Catherine Stocker, the issue is essentially a non-starter.
“We do not have a majority to bring local property tax back to baseline or do anything else with it,” she said, adding that it was “a shame” that Labour pulled out.
Labour’s former leader on the council Dermot Lacey, who also won re-election last week, told The Journal that the numbers for a progressive alliance “simply don’t stack up”.
He said that as a smaller party on the council, it is up to the larger players to hold talks and that Labour is not currently in talks with anyone but remains open to discussions.
“There’s no point in having discussions at the moment with an alliance that simply doesn’t have the numbers to do what they are talking about,” Lacey said.
The four parties who attended the talks last week have 31 councillors among them out of the 63 on the council, just short of a 32-seat majority.
The group would need to add independents or reach out to People Before Profit’s two council members, who Labour don’t see as reliable partners. People Before Profit also oppose the LPT and have consistently voted to reduce it.
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We are non aligned and should not be expelling diplomats of a state that has not acted against us.
@The Risen: they have acted against Europe, more than once. Enough is enough
@Michael farrelly: they acted against a traitor.
@Oliver Klozov: oh so you now agree it was Russia then. That’s a breakthrough. So, you think it’s ok for a government to execute people without trial then ?
@Oliver Klozov: Was the Police Officer a Traitor? Was his Daughter a Traitor? Were the citizens of Salisbury Traitors too?
@The Risen: We have to make a stand with our friends. Russia doesn’t give a F**k about Ireland or our neutrality. We need to pick a side and I’m delighted to see the government showing leadership on this issue.
@Michael farrelly: He wants this new intelligence agency to be given over to the Guards ,these are the guys that gave us the one million plus fake breathalyzer tests
@kevin: neither do the British. They have carried out indiscriminate assassinations here for decades. Successive Irish governments took no action. Why this time? The victims aren’t dead and they are not Irish.
@Michael farrelly: where’s the evidence? How many countries have access to these chemical weapons? He was a double agent god knows where he has been and done. For all we know he could have been a target for several countries
@Michael farrelly:
Where is the evidence that Russia state agents conducted this attack?
What nerve agent was used?
Some reports from medical sources appear to be querying this nerve agent angle.
If it was nerve agent has this being independently validated?
Where was it manufactured?
If manufactured externally how was it brought in?
What was the mode of delivery?
Who delivered it?
How did they escape?
What was their motives?
I see no evidence at all of Russian involvement apart from the fact a double agent who “betrayed” fellow agents and lived openly under his own name, in a standard semi de in England!
Only surprised some of his previous “colleagues” hadn’t struck before now!
If Russian cancels all dairy and beef imports from Ireland will the EU take up the slack?
@Cal Mooney: and who are you going to call Cal if there is a war? Or will you sit there waving a little white flag? Our geographic location means we are effectively protected by other states, most notably the UK. We need to acknowledge that and act on solidarity with them.
@kevin: definitely not the British. Every time they come here, they overstay their welcome.
@Michael farrelly: good man Michael…you sitting in a basement somewhere in the US on $9 an hour to troll? The Russians sacrificed 20+ million people to save Europe. Jog on.
@Cal Mooney: I guessed you were still fighting that war in the north cal. The peace agreement was signed, partition is here to stay, time to move on and leave your hang ups behind
@Centerro: your comment really is idiotic and completely ignores the facts bravo
@kevin: why do the British continually refuse to hand over the files on the 34 people murdered in Ireland in 1974. If they are our friends and allies, they would be volunteering the evidence. Instead, every year they say no to our government. If this was a massacre carried out by the Mexicans on the U.S., would they tolerate that BS?
@Cal Mooney: That was 44 years ago Cal and very different times. If you go back just a few years, when our EU friends were stitching us up by forcing the state to take on the debt of failed privately owned banks, the only country that tried to support us in resisting that was the UK. Even the US got in touch with the EU to ensure that we got royally screwed. Despite our troubled past, the British are the closest people to us culturally, socially and politically in the modern world.
@Centerro: Actually they sacrificed 7 Million against Germany. The Soviets themselves killed 20 Million of their own citizens. (And those figures come from Nikita Khrushchev in 1961). The Soviets also murdered 22,000 Polish Soldiers, Local and National Politicians and College lecturers in 1939. As well as 70,000 Finns during their invasion of Finland in 1939. In the Baltic States after they were invaded the Soviets deported 124,000 Estonians, 136,000 Latvians and 245,000 Lithuanians to Siberia.
@Mick Jordan: don’t forget those who disappeared from the countries they “liberated” from the nazi, before they installed puppet governments and oppressed millions for decades
@Michael farrelly: “they have acted against Europe”
Same Europe that left us on the hook for 42% of its banking debt?
@The Risen: Was it not the Irish Government that assumed the debts of the Banks against all international advise at the time?
@Robert Harris:Yep, they are also the guys that kept you and your family safe during over 30 years of terrorist activity in this country. The same guys that have taken a lot of bullets from ‘Republicans’ protecting the citizens of this state.
Jesus wept, were talking about terrorists and espionage here and your bringing up negative breath tests!
@The Risen: We are aligned to the EU and must show solidarity with our partners. If something similar ever happens in this country we would expect our friends to support us in our hour of need. Russian hostility is a global problem which must be addressed.
@The Risen: I can’t see the US ever been treated the russia has. can you imagine.
@Jarlath Murphy: so you know more than 20 plus nations then
@Phil Keenan: They all have their own individual reasons to rattle their sabres, we have a proud history of neutrality we should not relinquish just to look good in the group! When the mists of war clears it is neutral credible observers who will be needed to rebuild the peace!
Why throw away future opportunities to coat trail war mongers into a conflict not of our making?
@The Risen: Correct. 100%
@Chris Kirk: It is not “The EU” that forced us into this without providing any proof….it’s the Brits, the ones who made up WMD with Bush to destroy Iraq.
It is the same guys who push the “Russian Threat” constant Media headlines (with nos substance), and you are one of the many that fall for them.
@Centerro: nope you’ve got that wrong. I’m Irish and live in Dublin. I do wonder though where you are from ?
@Cal Mooney: whataboutery at it’s finest. They’re both naturalized European citizens and hundreds of eu citizens, including non British tourists were at risk. Take off the blinkers and put down the history books.
@The Risen: they still helped us away from the reckless spending of our own government
@Robert Harris: who is this he you speak of ?
@Jarlath Murphy a yes our proud history of netrality saw Eamon de Valera sign Hitlers book of condelance, and Ireland turn away jewish refugess.
@Cal Mooney: what is your problem with the brits. You probably watch British tv every day. You probably support a British football team. How many times have you been to London with your mates, if you have any. You seriously do have deep seated anger issues about the brits. I’m here to help.
@Michael farrelly: Bullshit most of the agression has been from West to East. Learn from a book not Rambo re runs.
@kevin: We were told what to do. It was a mere token gesture. America and Britain will fight Russia down to the last Polish person.
Why would they use a substance that could be easily traced back to them?
Before some headcase jumps down my throat, I’m just asking the question. I’m not saying I think Russia dindu nuffin.
@PutinBot 5002: because they are arrogant
@Michael farrelly: That’s one possibility.
@PutinBot 5002: When they used the Polonium they knew it would lead back to them but they used it anyway. And they got away with it very lightly. so it was a case of We did it once and got away with it why cant we do it again.
@PutinBot 5002: They wanted to test the UK and their allies strength. If they had shot him, the UK government wouldn’t have had to act.
@Mick Jordan: Mick, that man’s father insists MI6 carried out that murder. Why would he day that. Obviously you are closer to that case than his father. Enlighten us.
@PutinBot 5002: that’s a fair point plus why are we’re getting involved in this.
@Cal Mooney: His wife says differently and so does the evidence. Where is this father living by the way. Russia isn’t it. And having a son classed as a traitor can’t be easy for anyone living in Putin’s Russia.
@PutinBot 5002: Its what they can source easily as they have a lot of it. Possible didnt expect to get caught or didnt care
@PutinBot 5002: Good question, especially as we were told that all Russian nerve agent had been destroyed, but guess what someone had a stash and used it.
@Chris Kirk: Russia has denied it ever existed. As such they would have told the OPCW the same when they were destroying Russia’s other stocks of Chemical Weapons.
Great article and on the ball… ireland obviously doesn’t condone Russia’s action but not expelling Russian diplomats should be accepted as an endorsement of our own neutrality
@Joe O Reilly: Yes and the Uk Bot michael farrelly above has around 100 posts today on here. Very worrying how our Govt just jumped on a media bandwagon.
@Joe O Reilly: Bye bye to 400Mln Euro of Irish Agri exports 2 Russia
@gregory: You might want to check the date on your link. LOL
@Mick Jordan: Hardly relevant. Irish exports have increased. Many Irish companies have worked hard to develop exports to Russia esp. the agri sector.
@Joe O Reilly: What about all the refueling and troops in Shannon though. That’s a breach of our neutrality . This expulsion is not an endorsement of our neutrality.
@gregory: Its very relevant considering you were trying to make out it was due to the diplomat being expelled. When quite obviously Russia had ceased imports of EU foodstuffs as retaliation for EU sanctions. Better try next time.LOL
@Mick Jordan: The point is….Irish exporters…and Irish needing Russian work visas will suffer.
@gregory: Dream on. If they were in that much need they would have already gone broke. But guess what our exports are increasing, or economy is the fastest growing in Europe, employment is rising but you think we need Russia. This is prime stuff. You should take it to the Edinburgh Festival.
@Mick Jordan: they would be growing even faster without the NATO allies ordering us to impose sanctions on one of our growing markets. FG have a lit to answer for at the next election.
@Cal Mooney: Have a good cry there Cal. Russia is a pariah state run by a mafia. And now the world is waking up to it.
@gregory: I’m not a UK bot. Just saying my piece. Where are you from ?
Neutrality
Mechanism to avoid grown up decisions
@Mr Grumble: well someones sitting on the fence with their opinions
@Mr Grumble: Ireland has just destroyed the relationship with Russia, the 1st country to recognize our independence based on trial by media, fake news, and allegations not proven in order to support those with their own larger agenda.
@Mr Grumble: Our neutrality is not something to be given up likely. I agree with the author in relation to trusting information giving to us from British Intelligence. It’s not like there are all kinds of agendas going on. I disagree that this expulsion threatens our neutrality. Surely US planes refueling and troop stop overs in Shannon are much more of a threat or breach if our neutrality. Expelling a diplomat is just a toothless exercise that costs nothing. I’m more concerned about trusting information fromBristish Intelligence and no evidence forthcoming publicly.
@gregory: What relationship? Don’t make me laugh.
@Mick Jordan: I know you hate Russians but hey that’s your problem right?
@gregory: We don’t have have ever had a relationship with the Russians as a state. Your personal relationships don’t count for much.
@Mick Jordan: what are you talking about – personal relationships? are you crazy? – clearly you are a U.S. Agent posting anti Russian posts on this site for years, which is fine but do not puport to be a neutral commenter.
@gregory: When have I ever pretended to be anything but Pro Western? I am proud to be Pro Western and not afraid for anyone to know.
@gregory: We were never in a relationship with Russia, what have they ever done for this country.
@Chris Kirk: They targeted Swords, Cork, Shannon and Belfast for nuclear annihiliation when we were being “neutral” during the Cold War.
@Honeybadger197: Guess you still live in the past then. Heck if I was Russia i’d shut the oil and gas taps to ireland. Like is everyone completely stupid on this site?
@gregory: We get neither from Russia so shut off all you like. LOL you are really having a bad day.
How come a ormer Russian agent in the UK announced this week that they were returning to Russia after being informed by MI6 that they had moved up the Russian hit list? In their words, they think there is more of a chance that the British are behind all this, rather than the Russians. Check out the interview and video on the UK mirror from the weekend.
@Cal Mooney: Are now claiming that the Russian Embassy in London didn’t produce and publish a list of people that they wanted returned to Russia?
@Cal Mooney: easily explained….. He knows he’s not safe there ( and so does any other double agent) due to litvinenko experience and this current situation so he states what you have mentioned because he knows wen he returns to russia stating this bs he will be an untouchable….. Really clever way / opportunity to go home as a double agent but ultimately doing so with no reprisals and a great feeling that now the Russian state must keep him alive whereas before they wanted him liquidated……also this will convince the Russian ppl (and people like yourself) that it was a british false flag……don’t underestimate the Russians they are multiple steps ahead of most of us
@Geoff Murphy: ok, the FG tin hat brigade are now suggesting russians on a rusdian death list feel safer in Russia than Britain because Russia doesn’t really want to kill them. You guys need to stop smoking what your smoking, open a few windows and doors and evacuate the building for a while.
@Cal Mooney: by doing this he won’t be on the Russian death list anymore….makes perfect sense. I deliberately replied to your thread with a logical explanation because I can see you are not looking nor will you entertain one. I wouldn’t vote FG if you paid me they have ruined this country the past 5 years with their lack if empathy but its great to see you throwing toys and capitulate the debate when anyone (and there have been many) give an answer to your bs questions…..and if I had smoke I wouldn’t be here commenting but probably entertaining myself with more Russian propaganda on you tube…….
It’s time we stepped up to the plate and stopped cowering behind our neutrality
@Michael farrelly: Britain isn’t neutral, it’s a murdering regime with centuries of experience. Right now they are supplying murderous weapons to the Saudies and advising them how to cause maximum impact to the civilian population in Yemen. They have a history in their approach. 4 million dead from famine in India, over a million dead on this Island and almost half a million dead in South Africa.
@Michael farrelly: Why whats so wrong with neutrality
@Johnny Mason: mr grumble answered you
@Cal Mooney: sure, and Russia is such a tolerant democratic nation that has never invaded or interfered in another country. Oh my sides hurt
@Michael farrelly: you never disagreed the British regime is blood thirsty and thrives on making money from war.
@Michael farrelly: surely our neutrality has kept us out of every major conflict for the last 100 years and has thankfully ment that we’re not as high profile a target for our lovely Islamist friends that are blowing people up left right and centre throughout the western world at the moment.
What weight do we have to through around, furthermore why should we get involved in something like this when we benefit from Russian business?
@Michael farrelly: Feel free to join the British Army they are, poised ready to strike and are only 90 miles up the road and good to go now, or are you just a coward who wants to see others do the fighting?
@Michael farrelly: “It’s time we stepped up to the plate and stopped cowering behind our neutrality”
And are you picking up your tin hat, oh noble keyboard warrior?
@Cal Mooney: Whats your point? He didnt say anything pro-British
@Karl: absolutely everything he said was pro British. That’s the only reason he is commenting. Another one of his ilk suggested the 1 million Irish deaths 150 years ago was an act of nature. They are sick apologists for the British establishment and their non stop lies.
@Paul Hughes: Well said. Ireland is a tiny country of no military or strategic significance. Our neutral policy has served us well. The UK has enemies all over the world not least in Iraq, Afghanistan & Libya. Best we stay out of it.
@Cal Mooney: I never said anything pro British and you know. Go away with your lies
@gregory: It’s precisely why Russia is expanding it’s embassy here by 500% in size. With a massive basement… this country with its disgusting lack of intelligence capability is the perfect backdoor to spy on the UK.
@Cal Mooney: I don’t deal in whataboutery
@Michael farrelly: Lol and just a few hours ago you were all over Journal yapping at everyone that Ireland is not neutral and never was. You struggle to get anything right. So we are neutral now?
Good move by this Irish administration. More actions like this, less neutrality mongering.
@Jurgen Remak:
Keep the fxxk out of Irish affairs
@Casper: Yes Sir! We won’t interfere in your beloved peace process anymore since we’ve been so destructive.
@Jurgen Remak: You are more than welcome my American Friend. You will always have Irish Allies.
@Mick Jordan: [idiot]
The issue is not what ‘Ireland’ , ‘Portugal’, ‘United Kingdom’ etc do.
The salient point is that the ruling class in the imperialist powers are clearly on a drive to war against Russia, and China.
The worldwide manufactured affair of the ‘west’, following an extremely suspicious Salisbury poisoning is a most serious development towards the war drive. Those who rave about Putin etc (whilst pointedly ignoring the evidence concerning imperialist machinations in the Ukraine and Syria, for example) are no more interested in the truth than the dirty tricks state-within-a-state of the USA, the UK and France/Germany.
@PV Nevin: Somebody save us from the stupidity of Marxists.
@Mick Jordan: As you well know Russia is not Marxist but keep posting anti Russian fake news.
@gregory: Was I referring to Russia? I don’t believe I was.Who I was referring to was PV Nevin. But jump to conclusions like you usually do.
When are people going to get it . Ireland is not neutral . We are not seen across the world as a neutral country . Irish units from Ireland have served in WW2 , Korea , Balkans , Africa , Iraq , Bosnia , Kosovo , Afghanistan . Irish units where even based in Germany during the Cold War .
Our “What’s in it for me” government for life, Fianna Gael, have never had the interests of the Irish people at heart. They have sold us out many times before, and will continue to do so as long as we give them a mandate.
@Jamie McCormack: they are right on this account
@Michael farrelly: How do you make that out? The Russians haven’t harmed us. What goes on between the KGB and MI5 is none of our interference.
@Tommy Whelan: Tommy all ur previous post are anti Irish Republic so we’ll just ignore this post ok
@Jamie McCormack: So using WMD’s in a European city is nothing to do with anyone but the British and the Russians?
@Jamie McCormack: You think the FSB arent in Ireland???
They are, so is MI5, CIA and a bunch of others
@Mick Jordan: Oh yeah like the non-existent WMD’s Blair used as pretext 4 Iraq war.
@Mick Jordan: Tad dramatic there Mick, they “may” have attempted to poison a man. Nothing compared to British undercover forces killing our people deliberately and indiscriminately for decades. No truth no justice.
@Karl: I’m well aware of the fact that the place is riddled with spies.
@gregory: So you wouldn’t consider Radioactive Polonium a WMD? Or A toxic Nerve Agent as a WMD? If not, the what would call them?
@Jamie McCormack: we stand with our Western allies against the major threat of Russian dominance
@Tommy Whelan:
Tommy thought he was joining the Irish Army when he joined the Royal Irish Regiment.
England can’t be seriously planning to still go to the World Cup
@Johnny Mason: they won’t be there for long if they do go!
@Johnny Mason: why not ?
@Michael farrelly: Because 1) they wont get past border control and 2) the average russian hates them and will beat the k r a p out of them. Stupid question btw
@gregory: that’s nasty and vindictive and it shows the type of person that you are.
@Michael Farrelly: “nasty and vindicative” says resident journal russophobe who sit here 24 hours a day spewing hate on everything russian.
Why is there several of your replies to every single post on this discussion?
Is it an employment or condition?
@Johnny Mason: England and the rest of the world should boycott the World Cup
Why sit on the fence Ireland is an EU member and pro european so it seems silly to be neutral when most EU states are expelling diplomats for the nerve gas attack .
@Robert Preston: Can you not see the political agenda at play? How did we react when our passports were stolen and used in assassinations carried out by spies? How many did we expel?
@Jamie McCormack: We expelled one Israeli diplomat. We expelled one Russian diplomat in 2011 for 6 forged Irish passports used by its spies. http://jrnl.ie/76820
@Jamie McCormack: we didn’t even stop diplomatic relations to send a clear message that it was unacceptable. FG love hypocrisy. They are genuinely an extension of the conservatives here in Ireland
@Honeybadger197: Varadkar wants to show “solidarity with the UK”. The same crowd who blew innocent people to smithereens in Dublin and Monaghan on the worst day of the so-called “Troubles”. The Blueshirts and their friends in England are denying justice to the families. They are not to be trusted.
@Jamie McCormack: Here’s a question for you. Of this attack had been carried out in France, Spain or Denmark . And Varadkar made the same statement would still have a problem with it?
@Jamie McCormack: You better tell the 380,000+ Irish living in the UK ( who were born in Ireland and emmigrated) this too.
@Honeybadger197: Ah honeybadger, facts are the enemy!
@Mick Jordan: I don’t understand your question.
Badger, how many voluntarily left these shores? Why were they largely left with no choice but to abandon Erin and seek wages across the water? Irish people have long memories.
@Jamie McCormack: How does someone leave Ireland involuntarily? Were they deported? The fact you’re overlooking is that the UK is home to 380,000 odd Irish people. They went, were taken in, found work, homes, new lives, new jobs, started families etc. In your haste to remind us how bad the Brits are, (and they have a very questionable history) you omit that they have also enabled hundreds of thousands of Irish to flourish.
@Jamie McCormack: It is very simple and self explanatory. But I see you are having trouble answering it so I will make even simpler.
If this attack had happened in any other European city and Leo made the exact same statement about solidarity with our friends and partners would you still have a problem with it? Or is it because it happened in a British city that you resent our Government supporting them?
Our government don’t speak for the people. They represent the vested interests. Always have done.
@Jamie McCormack: Not the question I asked you Jamie. Try again.
@Mick Jordan: Oh I’m sure that instead of Iraq or the Troubles or Oliver Cromwell the whataboutery would instead concern the Algerian war, Napoleon, the Borgias, the Vikings…
@Harry Whitehead: Very possibly H. That gave me a good laugh.
@Mick Jordan: OK Mick. No other country, in Europe or further afield, has so much Irish blood on its hands. So solidarity with them is a bit sickening considering the answers our people still wait for.
The last time I saw the FG frape room so busy, they were telling us all that the vast majority of people in Ireland supported water charges. I smell a rat.
@Cal Mooney: Russian bots out in force
@Michael Farrelly: They are ready to cry. All that effort to sway opinion and still the Ruskies got kicked out.
@Mick Jordan: Says the hater of Russians. Meanwhile Russia cant be a r s e d using their cyber warfare capabilities on Ireland because there is basically no point. Ireland is a very small country and of mo threat to Russia.
@gregory: Here is an internet Handkerchief to dry your eyes with.
@Mick Jordan: yep they lost and they don’t like it at all
@Michael Farrelly: What really kills them is the Unity the West has shown. It has come as quite a shock to them. So now they are like headless chickens.
@Mick Jordan: exactly right
@Michael Farrelly: How are you today open borders aka mick jordan aka michael farrelly? Enjoying replaying your own posts?
Watch ikarus on netflix, corrupt to the core, wouldn’t believe a word that stems from Putin
@Emer Caffrey: watched the C4 documentary on the British MRF force sent to the North in 1970 to stoke the tensions between the nationalists and the unionists. Their tactics included nightly murder attacks dressed as either side and then watching the tensions grow with glee. They interviewed past members who said their orders were to murder civilians and pretend it was the IRA that carried out the attacks. Can’t believe a word the Brits say.
@Cal Mooney: and just in case FG bots suggest that the upper echelons of the British establishment didn’t know about it, they gave the MRF commander medals including from the Queen and gave him the highest rank in the British military for his efforts.
@Cal Mooney: more whataboutery from you
@Cal Mooney: What exactly is your point?
Britain is bad is all you keep saying, that does not make Russia good!
@Karl: In Cal’s world Russia is the Garden of Eden and Putin its Paragon of Virtue Guardian.
@Cal Mooney:
#alwaysthevictims
“Russia has raised millirary spending to Soviet levels” Before we get too carried away GDP of Russia is less than that of Britian…..Also millitary spending of Russia is around $70 billion…..UK around €55 billion….In comparison US millitary budget for next year is $550 billion…..Biggest question Putin got during election was on failing Russian health service …
@pc_comments: Biggest question to Putin was why did he put his main opposition into jail ;)
@Michael farrelly: he was a British stooge, that’s why. I would do the same if I knew the guy was working for the British.
@pc_comments: as well as the fact Russia last year cut its defence spending by 25%.
@Patrick J. O’Rourke: Nope. Its closer to 5%. http://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_the_truth_about_russias_defence_budget_7255
@pc_comments: false information. btw things are cheaper in Russia than the USA so like4like comparison irrelevant;
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
@Cal Mooney: I’ve noticed you’re big on ‘proof’, so what’s the proof of your own allegation?
@Cal Mooney: so you’ve just admitted you’d murder somebody. You’re some piece of work Cal
@Michael Farrelly: Cal is a Plastic Provo. Pay him no heed.
@Mick Jordan: yeah I guess I should just ignore him indeed Mick
Neutrality is not a foreign policy it is the avoidance of having one. The sanctimonious and self righteious use it to create the illusion of a higher moral ground when in fact it demonstrates a lack of morals.
FG acted on a point of principle. This is very unusual for the Irish state but it was the right thing to do.
@Joe Caulfield: I notice they have so such principles when it comes to the British.
@Joe Caulfield: well said Joe
@Cal Mooney: or maybe they are not weighed down by a chip on their shoulder. Perhaps they have the ability to build a bridge and get over it. Maybe they accept potatoe-blight as a random act of nature. Without such people progress would be impossible.
@Joe Caulfield:
You talk a lot of shit Joe and we shall see if this was the right decision for the Irish people at the next election, I am very proud of our neutrality and millions of Irish people will stand up to any Irish government that wants to scrap this principle,
I worry about where this may lead us, along with the higher investment in nato I think neutrality is in free fall. Dr Colman brings up very good points, exchanging intelligence and investment in the same but we have nether on this issue, setting aside his opinion on the Garda being our forefront in the same I would expect the army to be our right choice as they have some of the skills to deal with it. Then there’s the dubious “intelligence” Blair/Bush and co brought up in the past and where it led, this is a very risky move as we simply don’t have the intelligence infrastructure to defend ourselves. No proof just a “likely” culprit with similarities in other such abhorrent acts, doesn’t feel right to me. These opinions come from our EU counterparts who are not always forthcoming with important intel in the first place (These are the doctors words) Very odd times we are living in.
@Declan: “setting aside his opinion on the Garda being our forefront in the same I would expect the army to be our right choice as they have some of the skills to deal with it”
Useless Gardai, its like they stopped hundreds of terrorist attacks on Irish streets and kept the largest terrorist organisation at bay for 40 years!
But what have they done for us lately eh?
@Karl: the South of Ireland was never the target of the IRA. Yes, wrongfully incidents happened that saw a total of 8 people die. Compare that to the British murders in the South that saw 70 murders carried out. The army never stopped any of those. And there is still no condemnation from any Irish government about those atrocities or expell8ng of UK diplomats in response.
@Cal Mooney: So Armed Robberies in the South, Murders of Gardai, a Prison Officer, and a Soldier, smuggling, drug dealing, intimidation were all criminal acts and not political? Good you see the light Cal,
@Karl: Karl that was special branch, unless Dr Clonan had ment to use Garda as all incompassing, I was suggesting the operational side of the army, Bomb disposal dirty and otherwise,engineers, communications specialists etc which I would presume is more apparent in the ARMY. I won’t mention the obvious elephant in the room when it’s comes to the Garda doing their jobs correctly. Respectively.
@Mick Jordan: you are excusing British murders, by your comment. That is why I would never vote or support your party.
@Cal Mooney: but you just admitted you would resort to murder Cal
@Cal Mooney: What party is that?
It is doubtful that Ireland has ever been neutral. It certainly ceased to be neutral when it joined the EU. It probably ceased to be neutral when it joined it joined the United Nations. The decision to declare neutrality in 1939 was a political necessity not an ideological principle.
An Irish spy giving info to the uk found dead with his head smashed. The murder weapon was an Irish whiskey bottle found at the scene . He was also strangled with a tricolour and a butlers irish chocolate was rammed down his throat . Based on all such non obvious evidence. Irish diplomats will be exiled throughout
@Murph11: you’re hilarious
@Murph11: Good giggles
@Murph11: You should go on tour. Russia would be a good starting place.
If the Gardaí & military intelligence here had incriminating evidence against the now expelled diplomat or ‘agent’, why did they wait til now to take action?This is seriously damaging to our perceived neutrality
Do you agree or disagree with a regeme led by a man who feels so insecure and paranoid in failing in his dream in making his country appear to be the greatest super power on earth and too facilitate this is willing to coherse, deny, lie, kill, invade, manipulate world news and politics to conjure this image of him being the most powerful man in world, a manipulator of presidents, a mob boss to his country men who feels free to do whatever, wherever, to whoever he wants??
“Ahh sure we’ll be grand, where Irish we dont get involved in that sort of thing we’re neutral”
Putin and Russia need to be reminded they cannot continue the way things are. Its completely unacceptable behavior.
@Billy Connelly: until I saw “Putin” & “Russia” at the end there I thought you were on about Trump.
Yet another article that shows how Ireland is little more than a subsidiary of the Anglo Americans and an echo chamber of their rabid-shaky propaganda.
1) This time the Brits are not even lying (remember Blair for Iraq?), they admit that they have no proof: “highly likely” is an ADMISSION of lack of proof..and in fact many EU leaders (Czech, Austrian etc.) said “show me the proof”…ZERO proof..plus Scotland Yard stated that they need weeks to know what happened
2) If anything it is highly UNLIKELY that the Russians did this; they had RELEASED the victims from Russian prisons and let them free years ago, so why hit them now when they have no value and why in such a clumsy way…oh, to show “that they are tough” right (they would actually look dumb)…a childish “marvel comics” explanation
3) If anything, it is highly LIKELY that the PROVEN serial liars/illegal war starters: UK and US made this false flag to rally the sheep EU puppets behind their shaky/collapsing world dominance…you know the ones that have caused the destruction of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria etc etc etc…”to bring Democracy”?
Props to Thejournal to allow comments, BBC and their Irish matrix avoid this so they avoid being ridiculed by the readers
@Jay Nesbitt: Makes sense. Good post.
Stop spouting this “neutrality” nonsense. It’s a myth and it’s cowardly.
Tom, if this attack had been in Irish soil. An attack on an Irish citizen in the sovereign state of Ireland, what would neutrality mean then?
The attack was on EU territory. It must not be tolerated and treated with the severity it deserves.
@Jesus Christ: Saddam Hussein in Iraq had WMD’s so we must attack and destroy his country oh wait, we were wrong, sorry.
@gregory: agreed Gregory, but 1 million Iraqis dead cannot possibly compare to two sick Russian spys.
@Cal Mooney: True. So a Russian spy gives a list of 20 odd Russian spies to Mi5 / CiA. Any one of them would want to kill him. The UK / US never kill their spies who provide lists of their spies to Russia FSB/ KGB, oh wait….Damn….
@Jesus Christ: To this minute nobody knows who did it apart from “highly likely” nonsense.
Could have been fentanyl exposure, that is one of the possibilities according to medical personnel who treated people on the scene.
Well written Tom. You covered it all. 100% agree.
@gregory: Well written Tom, now go and get a shilling from the Brits…Intelligence” analyst, lol
Honestly when spooks get involved logic and truth go put of the window. I really doubt this is a cut and dried case even if they do hang someone out to dry. I think leo has been shown very wanting in this case.
Tom Clonan, Skripal is not dead, despite what you have reported and that lack of knowledge undermines your argument
@Anne Marie Devlin: Doctors reckon he nor his daughter will ever regain consciousness unless there is some form of miracle
Leo thinks he’s being a statesman and playing with the big boys now. Idiot.
@Kerry Blake: damned if he does it, damned if he does not
@Billy Connelly: not many Irish would complain if we expelled some British diplomats every time the British refuse to hand over files in the murders carried out by the British in Dublin Monaghan or any of the other massacres they carried out here.
@Cal Mooney: Not many would complain if you gave over with the permanent chip on your shoulder and the incessant whataboutery. Just sayin’ like.
@Andrew Eager: wow, you really don’t want to answer my point. Reminds me of the British minister last week when asked a hard question about providing hard evidence to the Russians to back up the British claim thought the best response possible was to say ‘I wish Russia would go away and shut up’.
In a court of law, to execute a sentence, in most cases a verdict beyond reasonable doubt is required. In this case, an opinion that the Russians are ‘likely’ to have been behind the Salisbury attack, is apparently good enough! This opinion, from the British, with agents in every country in the world (including Ireland), smacks of hypocrisy, and I can smell bullshit.. Dirty MI6 yet again.
@Joe Hill: Expelling a diplomat is not sending him to jail so I dont know why you are going down that road.
He was expelled because his right to be here is not the same as your right to live your life as a citizen of the state. Information thats not acceptable in court for a criminal trial can and is used in diplomatic circles.
Jeez, you would think its a rare event to have a ‘diplomat’ expelled because hes found out to be a spy. Its common as muck!
Also I believe this again highlights the need for a separate intelligence agency here in Ireland. One separate from Gardai. In our new reality of international terrorism we need a stand alone intelligence agency. We may be less susceptible to agendas of other governments then and what information they selectively share with us.
Ever read ‘Our man in Havana? If not have a go. It’s hilarious. The whole affair reminds me of that drawing of secret weapon- the…Prise for one who knows what it was. Lol all
The Lisbon Treaty text which I have clearly states the intention of a unified EU defence organisation. IE An EU army. Pesco was the first nail in the coffin for Irish Neutrality. Anyhow Russia and China have lately ditched the US Dollar as their trading currency and have successfully floated and trades oil futures in Yuan and Ruble by passing the World reserve currency the dollar. All the shenanigans are about this including diplomats and tariffs etc. Probably a lot of US dollar bonds held in China will come home to roost creating inflation problems in the US. Its always about money. Any other position is frankly at best naive and at worst pure hackery by tired journos.
Ireland is not neutral never has been. You need to declare it at the UN and have it recognised. Like Austria. As it is we are in the EU army and allies of BRITAIN that’s how the world sees us.
England still hasn’t got over this basket ball nation beating them lol but seriously you have to be an awful stupid person to think Russia is responsible.
@Éamonn ÓGallchobhair: well most of the leaders of the free world must be awful stupid then ? I don’t think so
@Michael farrelly: Present your facts or desist from propoganda. Oh wait your on the payroll obviously, fair play post #400 today on journal.ie
@gregory: well somebody needs to tackle the Russian bots
Well said, time to invest in our neutrality! By the numbers it’s 2% of GDP every year. It’s probably the easiest thing to fix in Ireland. we can’t rely on hear say and other nations.
to be clear including ‘Irish controlled airspace’ is not Irish airspace but international airspace
@steve white: he said that, it’s international airspace that’s controlled by Irish air traffic controllers, using civilian radars. When Russian bombers turn off transponders then we can only see a blip on the screen cutting happily through civilian air corridors as we have NO primary military radar which is much more capable than standard civilian radar AND we depend on RAF fighters with their transponders on,
to escort the bombers so that we can track the raf planes and thereby know where the Russians are and thus safely route civilian airliners around them. Irish lives at risk in the air, protected by British military assets… is that the neutrality we want?
We are not a neutral country. What we do is benevolent neutrality. We try to back the winners whoever they may be.
UK spycops in Ireland, GCHQ NSA and the five eyes hacking Irish digital networks, Large private corprations like SCL and WPP LLC scouring our data and manipulating discourse on Social media in Ireland with JTRIG helping out. Irish libraries blocking encrypted emails services like Riseup and the Dail blocking NGO websites such as Shannonwatch.
We need to take advice from Edward Snowden and Digital rights NGO`s to embrace full encryption of our digital networks, thats if the UK, USA and Five Eyes would let us.
Are we sure Russia is the biggest threat to the Irish people? Or is the naivete of the Irish people the problem?
Nutrality is either greed(example: Switzerland ) or cowrdness (example: Ireland) . For the exception of the Dunnstores girl. Remember?
What have they ever done against this country? Nothing. Unlike the Brits. Why show solidarity with a country who has a track record of lying in order to vindicate immoral wars like the one in Iraq which engendered ISIS and the civil war in Libya. Its Britain which has a track record of violating other coumtries sovereignty and supporting tyrants. Libya, Yemen, Iraq exceed anything done by a considerable measure by Russia since 1991.
@Colm O’Shea: Well said Colm. We don’t mention the war though, remember?
Putin is not having sleepless nights because Ireland has backed its other EU partners. YOU CANT ALWAYS SIT ON THE FENCE AT SOME POINT YOU WILL HAVE TO PICK ONE SIDE OR ANOTHER. Russia does have the arrogance and skills to carry out this attack, the rhetoric you are hearing from them is normal language, as Russia never admits wrong doing but they are extremely deceitful and underhanded which is why they are a danger
Un cielo despejado sobre toda España! Every time it’s clear skies above Ireland there are American war planes all over it. Have you noticed? Lol all.
Neutral? We are the EUs little bitch
Why is it that only ex-Russian spies who have moved to England are liable to be killed?
Apparently the current total is 14 agents, but we never hear of any living in any other country in the world!
Remember at the time Russia recognised us they had had a new administration too. In fact, General Michael Collins, the then Minister for Finance had just loaned Ludwig Martens of the fledgling Russian administration $20,000. (Ref: https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/guarding-russian-crown-jewels-1.472522)
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