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Updated 3.30pm
FINE GAEL HAS said that a so-called ‘secret report’ which convinced Enda Kenny that the Seanad needed to be abolished was in fact published over three years ago.
The party was responding to a call by the DCU professor and Democracy Matters campaigner Gary Murphy in the Irish Indpendent today for the Taoiseach to publish a ‘secret report’ which is said to have convinced him to abolish the upper house.
Democracy Matters, which is advocating retention and reform of the Seanad, has confirmed that Murphy is writing to Kenny to ask him to publish the report.
A spokesperson for the group said that the report was alluded to by Fine Gael TD and deputy director of the party’s referendum campaign, Regina Doherty, in an interview last month.
But Fine Gael said that the ‘secret report’ is the ‘New Politics’ document that was published in March 2010 by future environment and local government minister Phil Hogan.
“Enda Kenny, as leader, was obviously given an advance copy of the ‘New Politics’ before it was published, and as you can see, this is where the proposal for Seanad abolition came from,” the spokesperson said.
The spokesperson said that Hogan would have been consulting with the Fine Gael leader as they formulated policy ideas and said that Kenny had access to “most or all of that information [contained in the New Politics document] well before publication”.
Kenny surprised many when he called for the abolition of the Seanad in his speech at the Fine Gael Presidential Dinner in October 2009, just months after he had argued for reforming the house.
Kenny said at the time that “our two-house Oireachtas is an odd man out in Europe” and in its ‘New Politics ‘ document the party pointed to Ireland being “significantly over-represented because of the Seanad” in comparison to Scandinavian countries and New Zealand.
The proposal later made it into Fine Gael’s 2011 general election manifesto and the programme for government which pledged to hold a referendum on “an number of urgent parliamentary reform issues” including abolition of the Seanad.
Speaking on Tonight with Vincent Browne on 15 July, Regina Doherty said: “He [the Taoiseach] is on record of saying that what happened after that was that himself and Phil Hogan took a piece of work, a report, a bit of information gathering during those six months between then and November when he did announce that he would put the referendum to the people.”
YouTube: RDinHD
Speaking to TheJournal.ie this afternoon Gary Murphy said that the public have a right to see why Kenny “changed his mind so substantially” but accepted there may not be a ‘secret report’ when Fine Gael’s comments – that there is a publicly available report outlining the Seanad abolition argument – were put to him.
“My view is that if Fine Gael say there is not a [secret] document, I’ll take them at their word, but clearly Regina Doherty did say there is such a document,” he said.
“He [Kenny] clearly said in July 2009 that he was in favour of a reformed Seanad, and he then said at the Fine Gael dinner two-and-a-half months later that he was in favour of abolishing the Seanad.
“If there is a document, we’d like to see it. If it doesn’t exist we’d happily take them at their word.”
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The proposal to abolish the Seanad is dangerous populism that serves to avoid any real discussion about reform of the Oireachtas as a whole. Both houses are disfunctional to a large degree and need democratic accountability.
Vote no
Declare a Second Republic
Enact a new Constitution
Reform both houses
Separate Church and State
Essentially start again!
There is a large concise around Ireland that Mr Kenny and Fine Gael have implemented failed FF and German policies.
“The pig never worries about the butcher when it has its nose in the trough!”….. Very Orwellian I thought …
Reform not abolish!
Let’s jump forward to the local elections ; the traditional partys will be decimated as they won’t have money for the proposed giveaway budget ; who votes in the next Seanad ? COUNCILLORS !
Sinn Fein have the Seanad at their mercy after the local elections and yet they have performed a U-tURN on its abolition ;
I’m miles from the sea but I can smell something fishy in TED’S underpants !
As if it took a report to convince Kenny to attempt this grubby little fascist power grab….
The Seanad needs reform, not abolition. Imagine if it had had the power to intervene and stop fine gael selling our kids into 40 years of debt servitude, or to strike down fianna fails blanket bank guarantee in the first place.
There is no secret report because Enda was not convinced but impulsed to call for abolition of the second chamber. And we all remember last time politicians acted on impulse.
A man we never met before suddenly gave us flowers?
I know him
Waffle..Waffle ..Waffle.
.just so tired of that man and his party.!
Well if they say there is no report then it must be true. .. after all politicians don’t lie !!!!
New politics, please my sides are splitting,
and we should believe a party that openly lies to the people that it got elected by because…………
Fine Gael want to abolish the Seanad to concentrate power in the Dail. It is entirely undemocratic to have no proper oversight of the Dail.
The Seanad does need reform (directly elected, part-time sitting schedules) but abolition is dangerous. Fine Gael won’t tell you the truth – they want less democracy and more power to push through the policies of big business instead of policies with the citizen in mind.
Big international business and finance lobbyists want to influence just one house of politicians instead of two. That’s what this is all about and Kenny and his mates are willing to do this for them.
Politicians don’t serve the people anymore, they serve external interests who will pay them after their terms in lecture tours and appointments to lucrative boards of directors. Just do some research and you’ll see.
Kenny had access to “most or all of that information [contained in the New Politics document] well before publication”.
Can somebody please give me the correct answer
A). Enda Kenny only knows most of what goes on within his party?
B). Enda Kenny knows all of what goes on within his party?
C). The spokesperson for Fine Gael is hanging Phil Hogan out to dry as public support is dropping for abolishing the Seanad?
or
D). All of the above?
Of course there’s no secret report! Enda got the idea into his head and announced it at an event without telling anybody, including FGers. They were as surprised as everyone else!
Well, Kenny having an idea would surprise anyone.
It was probably a txt message
this is the unwinnable argument that has all interested parties back-tracking on Seanad Abolition
the fact that if the seanad abolition is “sold ” to the electorate as a “cost saving” austerity measure (under the mccrystal and mckenna judgements) then the fact that it is not abolished immediately after the election then any subsequent austerity measure introduced on the citizen is discriminatory as the 66 senators get a “stay of execution” as it were ….
If the citizens vote to abolish the seanad then any subsequent austerity measure that is not give a two year delay will render the seanad dissolved and the dail also as it was formed according to the constitutional provisions prior to the proposed and upcoming refendum…..
Abolish the seanad and you abolish the current sitting of the Dail !
Kenny said at the time that “our two-house Oireachtas is an odd man out in Europe” and in its ‘New Politics ‘ document the party pointed to Ireland being “significantly over-represented because of the Seanad” in comparison to Scandinavian countries and New Zealand.Funny we see no mention of over representation in the dail no that would be a step to far for kenny in reform.
We’re not over represented in the Dail. Have a look at Norway for an example of a Scandavian country with a similar population to ours.
FG are a secret organisation of idiots and propaganda merchants. Absolute bunch of fing mentally challenged fools.
I hear that Enda has alienated some of the former big boy hitters behind the scenes ….. not a good idea for Enda !
I doubt he has Enda is a cute lad he knows how to play the game and keep em all in line including the population.
Not what I heard ! ; he’s on a tightrope !
National Independent Party, sponsor the Citizen’s Charter, a reform policy that uses a down sized Seanád as a directly electable council to ‘care take’ for the nations interests. We even recommend that no Senator is a member of a political party for at least 7 years; and for the same period has no direct working relationships with departments of State, Semi States companies, PR companies or Lobby groups; all in order to avoid the cronyism trap and assure impartiality. This responsible new party requires your support in stripping out the corruption and cartels that have blighted this country.
Nah !
This is Ireland Martin , as father Ted would say “down with that sort of thing” ; keep up the good work though !
sorry I should have expanded the “Nah” earlier .
Abolish the Dail
It’s there all right “a single chamber”…
Have we been misled by our media?
There are a lot of comments above, and yet none provide any reasons to keep the Seanad. Ideas of the Seanad abolition being a “fascist power grab” are idiotic. How many times has it stopped the current Government, or previous governments for that matter, in passing legislation? The answer is 0.
One newspaper pointed out the establishment of the new appeal court at the weekend. I would rather that €20m per year was spent on speeding up the justice system than on an inept and undemocratic Seanad.
Kenny’s failure has been waiting this long to have the referendum. Had it been held during 2011, there was a fair chance it would have passed by a large majority. Now a significant block of voters may decide to punish the government by voting against the proposal to get rid of the Seanad.
And for all those who complain, if it does pass then it will still be the single biggest reform since the foundation of the State.
It’s not idiotic, anybody who knows their history knows that. The reality is we cannot trust the government to do the right thing ,having a buffer such as the seanad gives some comfort. The question is ? why is he so hell bent to abolish the Seanad ?. Is it an EU thing ? was it an agreement with the IMF to secure the bailout , who knows ?. All i will say is that always vote in opposition of what your government says because its always a mix of agenda ,spin and outright lies.
They won’t be punishing the government. They will be making a decision based on understanding their democratic voice is under attack. The Seanad does need reform but not abolition.
This is all about lobbying and facilitating the introduction of changes in legislation to allow greater freedom to international businesses to operate at the expense of local businesses and workers rights.
When the government tried to introduce a litter tax on chewing gum, the American gum industry stopped them. When they tried to introduce plain packaging for tobacco, that industry tried but thankfully failed to stop them. But plenty of changes happen without the public realising it and it’s all down to foreign lobbyists operating via Irish agents.
These industry lobbyists pay off politicians by promising lucrative positions on boards of various groups when they leave politics. Just look at the amount of ex politicians doing the lecture circuit and sitting on the boards of companies they helped in the past – in particular, the private health industry.
That €20 million cost was pulled out by Enda when he first floated this idea. It has yet to be shown to be a correct figure of savings. If Enda wants to make a saving should he not remove 66 TD’s from the Dail as he once suggested. Keep the Seanad and reform it.
@Kerry – Seriously? Removing 66 TDs from the Dail would be far more anti-democratic as it would disadvantage smaller parties at the expense of the larger parties under our electoral system. People constantly talk about stuff like this without thinking through the outcomes. A much smaller Dail will lead to far less democracy as opposed to an abolition of the Seanad.
The situation is that if you compare Ireland to the two European countries closest to us in size we would have roughly the same representation if we abolished the Seanad. Norway with a population of 4.9 million has 169 representatives in a single chamber parliament. Croatia with 4.2 million has 150 representatives in a single chamber parliament.
We will have 158 TDs for a population of 4.6 million people after the next election. If we got rid of the Seanad that would put us perfectly in line with those two countries. I do agree that it would also need to involve reform of the Dail as well to give more powers to committees to initiate and debate legislation which could then be brought to the Dail for further discussion.
It is not necessary to have two Houses of Parliament to ensure democracy. 14 of 27 EU countries do not have second chamber. Are all of them (including all of the Scandanavian countries) some form of fascist dictatorship in that case?
Well Jim I was just highlighting Enda’s suggestion on cutting back the Dail. As you say another bad idea of Enda’s just like scrapping the Seanad which is set up under the constitution what Enda is suggesting to replace it with is committees with “additional powers” bestowed by the government and not in the constitution so none binding on any future government.
The secret report was from Germany stating that from now on, it was the only house that can make final decisions on everything from speed limits, budgets, taxes and that Ireland didn’t really need any house just a few hundred drunken politicians to keep the media entertained. we all should setup our own referendum campaign then charge the taxpayer for providing it with information. That what the main parties are doing, Democracy Matters will also have a bill for us to pay. It think someone is bringing out a “for dummies” book with pictures for those who can’t be bothered reading information for themselves.
A majority of countries in Europe do not have dual chamber parliaments. That’s the reality. Of course by the definition of many commentators here then they are all some form of fascist dictatorship.
Maybe those same people should tell the Scandanavians that they are living under fascist conditions. I’m sure they’d be delighted to hear this.
a majority of European parliaments don’t allow their people referenda ; so yes Europe is by and large a dictatorship !
Stalin; “It is important for the people to know they have a vote; those who vote decide nothing, those who count the votes decide everything “
Wow ! Regina Monologue spotter a secret report !!!
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