Esteemed principles? I think anyone who had 6 relatives killed would be handing the medal back. What makes this powerful, and connects with people, is that it is an ordinary man caught in extraordinary circumstances.

Wait a minute, so he only decided to return the medal AFTER some of his own people got bombed.

If he had any honour he would have done it as the innocents in Gaza started dying.

Please Ciara, the adults are talking here. Go play outside.

@Ciara Ryan

Or if he had any honour he wouldn’t be perpetuating “the big lie” so wouldn’t have got the medal in the first place. Isn’t that the way you think, Ciara?

@Haya

Adults look at all the evidence, they don’t make laws to block out something they do not want to see, but yes, adults do lie and push agendas and exploit a victory to push policies on the masses who take their word at face value, now is it the nazis who are pushing debt slavery on the world or is it the allied victors?

@Claire

If he had honour he would be looking for the truth Claire, that is the way honour and truth is, not just down to my way of thinking Claire.

The Liberation of the Camps: Facts vs. Lies
http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/libcamps.shtml

@ciararyan
Was it the Nazi’s or our Allied victors.

The simple fact.
How many of the culprits who fired the rockets have been killed?

How many every day Palestinians have been killed?

Please when your ready to get off the fence and stop hiding behind “was it them that started this conflict” a child’s reasoning if ever there was one.

Come back to me…

Otherwise enjoy your weekend

Pure class.

Claire, quoting something from the institute of historical review is the historical equivalent of saying “I heard it from a guy I know down the pub”.

Mark weber, an arguably committed white supremacist, set it up to prove his theories. That automatically negates all historical objectivity.

Articles that source 80% of their evidence from the same journal they are written in are construction of bias.

If you want to argue that the holocaust was inflated by propaganda, sure go ahead. ‘Everything’ post war was inflated by propaganda.

But don’t go looking for all your evidence from the IHR and YouTube.
You’re doing yourself and all around you a disservice.

Meant for Ciara

People like Ciara are an amusing paradox. They have some belief that through watching youtube videos and reading the rantings of bigots and social outcasts that they are privy to some special info and that we’ve all been brain washed into believing something that’s a complete construct of propaganda. The paradox is that what they believe is happening to others is in fact happening to them. They are the brainwashed ones. Everyone sees them as crazy cranks and they actually take this as an indication that they must be onto something and it entrenches them deeper in their belief. Having been to a number of mass graves and concentration camps, having visited and heard from people who lived through the holocaust, the idea that someone could invent such an horrific story and convince so many thousands of people that it happened when it didn’t, well, it’s just insane. People don’t create horrific memories and stories. If anything they will create good memories and will forget some of the horror so that they can go on with their lives. I’ve often wondered what it is in these people that make them so easily convinced of such rubbish. I think perhaps it’s some idea that they are special, and because they are too lazy to actually work at becoming someone of exceptional skill and talent, they trawl the internet thinking they are like a secret agent discovering some big conspiracy, and they believe that when they’re proved right people will then appreciate how special & amazing they are.

There are many inaccuracies there, if all these people weren’t killed in the camps, where did they disappear to? That’s what holocaust deniers can never explain.

@Simon
Their articles are not debunked as you claim.

Here you are, not one fact against any of the articles and facts published, but instead, you focus on a smear campaign.

“IHR is this. Mark Weber is that”

That is the main thrust of so-called debunkers. Address the evidence instead of diversionary mud slinging.

The Liberation of the Camps: Facts vs. Lies
http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/libcamps.shtml

@Lisa
Jewish population losses in the German sphere of influence during the World War II
http://www.historiography-project.com/misc/graf_jewishlosses.html

@Haya
Except it is not yt videos, as you can see I have posted articles that reference Allied docuements and nurmeburg trial testimony, in fact most of revisionist articles rely on the allies own testimony to show them up.

As to videos, is the jewish “survivor” telling lies or not? So what is wrong with video?

Aren’t the survivors themselves using “video” to make their claims, which no doubt you proffer to bolster your own nonsense. One rule for the pushers another for the truthers.

Seriously Ciara, these articles are primarily based in semantics. The exact figure of people slaughtered is not the point. The point is that there was a brutal system put in place to identify all those of Jewish decent and to systematically exterminate them in the most efficient manner possible. Just because there are different estimates on the numbers killed and people have talked about their estimate before the end of the war is somewhat irrelevant. The fact is that there was a huge amount of people murdered. It was an attempt to wipe out a race of human beings from the face of the earth, because one man had pinned all his misfortune on them instead of accepting responsibility for his own part played in where he found himself in life. It’s the same mentality that looks to invent secret conspiracies and finds others who share similar misguided notions so that they can lay blame at someone else’s doorstep. Ultimately all we can do in our lives is do our best to act in line with our highest morals and ideals. A great man once said “be the change you wish to see in the world”. This means if you want to see an honest and peaceful world, all you can do and all you must do is be an honest and peaceful human being. You must be those things in everything you do, even the smallest of your actions. Do you really think that semantic debates and the exact number of Jewish slaughtered at the hands of the Nazi’s is going to have a positive impact on the world. Is this the best you can do?

@Haya

I notice you repeatedly perfer to avoid the facts and throw insult rather than address the facts in the article.

It is not a matter of numbers, it is a matter of whether there was a deliberate policy to exterminate people, the evidence shows there was not, and that 200-300,000 died as a result of allied bombing on German food and medical supply convoys and depots, how much more relevant in the light that that is how the allies now conduct their aims on more innocents today. Nothing has changed, they got away with demonising a people who opposed their power grab, so they are free to continue, and by God they are.

140 Occurrences Of The Word Holocaust & The Number 6,000,000 Before The Nuremberg Trials Began
http://balder.org/judea/Six-Million-140-Occurrences-Of-The-Word-Holocaust-And-The-Number-6,000,000-Before-The-Nuremberg-Trials-Began.php

Ciara, I’m not throwing slander. I mean no offense. I honestly wish you all the best in the future and I do hope that you have a very fulfilling and happy life. Take care of yourself. :)

@Haya
Your earlier comment would seem to contradict that.
“People like Ciara are an amusing paradox. They have some belief that through watching youtube videos and reading the rantings of bigots and social outcasts that they are privy to some special info”

Contrary to what you said, I do not believe I am privy to this, that or the other. The info is all there for people who wish to dig it out, I am posting articles which have very credible sources, who have themselves thoroughly researched the topic and of which most of the sources are from the documents and statements from the allies and exterminationists.

I do not approve of extermination, genocide or of blaming people of such if they did not. As always humans use the above to further their own subjective emotive partialities.

The truth is that Hamas and Fatah were founded by a Nazi Arab called hajj Amin El husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem. Not this medal but that is the main issue here

You’re some Mufti Felix.

How’s it going otherwise. You look better. Getting out in the fresh air?

@Ciara

Your argument is that the Jews got away with demonising the Nazis who opposed their power grab?
Good luck with that one.

Thanks for that. I was about to say she should look into retrospective abortion for herself.. And thats way too harsh
. IMAGINE If I posted that….wow

Kind of odd statements there. His parents were both in their 20s at the start of WWII. It’s fair to say that if either or both of them had been killed, he wouldn’t be here!

Not defending Netanyahu or Israel in general btw – in fact I wholeheartedly condemn their actions in Gaza. It’s just a bit silly to pretend that the Holocaust didn’t really affect modern day Jews.

“His parents were both in their 20s at the start of WWII. It’s fair to say that if either or both of them had been killed, he wouldn’t be here! ”

It fair to say if most peoples parents were killed that they wouldn’t be there.

Netenyahus father moved to the middle east in 1920, his mother, Tzila Segal, was a native jewish palestinian (y’know, the place that apparently never existed)

So easily people ignore they tell stories about the palestinians but believe mainstream media and Hollywood (owned by the same tribe) lies for 60 years.

@ Ciara Ryan

Mainstream media and Hollywood owned by the same tribe? What tribe would that be?

Ciara you’r not entitled to your opinion you should know that,listen to all the real opinions.

Eleanor, I don’t quite understand your reply. Are you implying that he was wrong to do what he did or are you trying to suggest something else?

Of course the Jew is always the persecuted party, Gentiles, what a laugh, such an honourable people.

Disgusting comment Eleanor, you’re an apologist for slaughter of innocents.

What a disgusting person you are eleanor but typical of the low life comments that we have come to expect from low life terrorist israeli filth.

Sickening Eleanor. Please tell us your family connection to Gaza or Israel
that gives you the license for a comment like this.

Eleanor Reidy – How deeply Offensive can a human being become , then an apologist for murder, advocating more murder and genocide .
Everyone of your “contributions” ! over the past four or so weeks , have been so grossly obnoxious and thoroughly inhuman too .
I’m feel personally disgraced , that you as an Irish Citizen could feel so negatively towards human life ?
You really should rethink your attitude towards your fellow man !

Eleanor pet. You should be melted down for moronic comments such as this.

Congratulations eleanor, there has been some serious competition as to who would post the most disgustingly infantile comment n relation to the slaughter in Gaza, but you’ve managed to beat off the competition with gusto.

Unfortunately for you, a person who has earned the right to render an opinion on israels actions more than just about anybody else on this planet has condemned them with a simple, dignified gesture, which is worth a thousand of the abrasive filth comments you extract from your posterior and sully these pages with.

You are either a horrible person, a troll, or unbelievebly brainwashed.

She’s probably all three, Paul.

Is this some kind of odd sarcasm that I’m not quite getting? If not, dachau? Don’t really understand your statement..

@Paul
Wiesenthal Re-Confirms: ‘No Extermination Camps on German Soil’
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n3p-9_Staff.html

@Paul
The Liberation of the Camps: Facts vs. Lies
http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/libcamps.shtml

I think you’ll find that dachau was a concentration camp and that it was in Germany. Can’t really see the relavence of this to the article or to Eleanor’s horrible comment though

Paul – In Ciara Ryan , we have a denier of Genocide and Holocaust in WW2 .
The other Lady is in favour of it continuing in Gaza and Palestine !

Isn’t it amazing that we could have this extraordinary contrasting discussion points and both Parties to it so utterly perverse and wrong ?

I think Eleanor’s got some sand in her gentiles..

@Were Jammin

If Israel shouldn’t use the Holocaust to justify it’s actions, how does this man’s family’s actions during the Holocaust earn him any more right to render an opinion?

Claire ..if I may … The holocaust is an undeniable fact of barbarity …. The man who returned the medal recognised the same – forget politics forget religion ..his family protected a group of people that have now as a recognised Nation killed his family .
If for example you acted as a safe house for a catholic who was under threat of torture in the north during the troubles and in the fullness of time the Northern Catholics established their own State on the Aran Islands and subsequently engaged in a one sided war against a population that was sheltering in a recognised international sanctuary and resulted in your family members being slaughtered would you hold onto a momento given to you in recognition of the act of kindness of sheltering … would you expect your family to ?

@Fear

A denier?

So that’s what they call solid evidence nowadays. Can you present evidence for it?

@Dermot

An undeniable fact?

No, it needs laws to protect people from stating the results of their research which show it did not happen as stated 60 yrs of allied victory narrative.

We are all permitted to research and question every aspect of history except this, when you publish anything outside the laid down parameters, then what happens is, you, your livelihood, career, family and life are targetted and destroyed.

Truth does not fear inquiry.

@Ciara

There’s no law in this country forbidding Holocaust denial. You have every right to spout whatever nonsense you want. I have the right to ridicule it. There is plenty of evidence proving the Holocaust.

@Dermot

There’s a lot of “IF” s in that statement I don’t agree with but I’m making the point that if Israelis are accused all the time of playing the Holocaust “trump card” it’s hardly fair to bring it out in criticism of them.

There’s one relevant If Ciara …but besides that ….
What is fair about children being blown up on a beach or U.N sanctuaries being bombed when those who carried out these atrocities initially used the holocaust as a reason to get foreign armies to invade a land that they had a tenuous claim to , (at best).and when furthermore the same collection of individuals used the holocaust and its horrors to make the case that Israel would be a place of sanctuary for them ..
The state of Israel used the holocaust to establish that which has now in the fullness of time reflected the very thing that was used as an emotional argument to get land !
hitler went east and west for land and created the holocaust , the survivors went south and copied him … the parallels are staggering…particulary when one considers the flagrant breach of International law by both regimes !

@Dermot

What are you talking about? What foreign armies? Israel was promised to the Jews in 1922 by the League of Nations, well before the holocaust. That international law has never been abrogated. The state they accepted joyfully in 1948 was a fraction of that first promised them. Your comparisons to Hitler are ridiculous.

What neocon hole did you crawl out of reidy?

So Claire when you PROMISE a country to someone, what becomes of the people that are there already! I think that is the crux of the problem!

@Cathal

Wait, if we’re going on to a new point does that mean we all agree that Dermot’s talk of foreign armies and using the Holocaust as an excuse to found Israel is wrong?

Ciara, The Institute for historical review does not provide solid evidence.
It is at the extreme end of the bias scale of holocaust history. And other institutions and historians exist that argue the other end of the scale.

Don’t get me wrong, they have their right to historical debate. In which they are regularly debunked by peer review.

You can’t just quote evidence from one journal as fact and pretend you’ve done your research.

You are seeking evidence to prove a point and doing a poor job of it.

If you truly believe in your opinions, read articles from historians who don’t subscribe to the same beliefs as you. If your beliefs stand up to the criticism, you can quote them too and prove it.

Until then you might as well be quoting daily mail articles.

@Claire

There are in Germany and other European countries, efforts are underway to do so here. Americas policy towards Gaza is a direct consequence of the emotional blackmail the holocaust lobby can exert over all of America, they are now using the same strategy here.

“Ireland became a full member of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance in December 2011. Prior to this Ireland was an observer country to the Alliance from December 2007, progressing to liaison country status in June 2009.

Ireland’s work to implement the Declaration of the Stockholm International Forum on the Holocaust are undertaken by a broad range of stakeholders, including the Department of Justice and Equality, Department of Education and Skills, and Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, along with civil society organisations including Holocaust Education Trust Ireland, the Irish Jewish Museum, and academia.”
https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/member-countries/holocaust-education-remembrance-and-research-ireland

Eamon Gilmore wants to block freedom of speech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df4rBWqJIq4

@Claire
Can you show me some of the evidence that proves it, as you say?

You are are a gorgeous person. I want to have your babies.

Promised to the Jews… Promised by who. Please explain

@ Yossi Mac

The League of Nations in 1922 It had nothing to do with the Holocaust http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/mandate_for_palestine/mandate_for_palestine.htm

@Claire

Any evidence for the holocaust?

@ Claire.

At least you stepped away from the god argument.
So do you believe in a 2 state solution, or are you like Benny and just stalling till you can evict the entire Palestinian population and build new settlements on them?

@Yossi

I was never in the god argument.

@Ablitive

Press TV? Ah well, that’s not biased then….

@Gary Brandon

You think calling Obama the Antichrist is sane, do you?

Claire …. can you thin k of a better candidate …just a general question ..not agreeing or disagreeing !

Well now that I think about it, Dermot……. Lol

So Claire… What’s your definition of ‘terrorism’?

Calling him an Antichrist is simply to describe a really vindictive manipulating mass murderer, which by all accounts Obama is and to top it off he laughs about it :) so yeah a pretty sane description if you ask me and the rest of the world. In fact ask the families of the innocent murder victims in Iraq, Afghanistan, the Middle East in general. Ask them how they feel about Obama murdering them and their families, are these people insane too? I ask the same question as I did above, what facts evidence even opinion do you have to add or are you just fishing for a few thumbs up to boost your self esteem?

Gary, check out @Ablitive’s website and then get back to me. It’s Obama793.com ! When he says Antichrist he means antichrist, don’t you Ab!

@Gary Brandon

Oh please, between you and Ciara, this thread is like the twilight zone.

Charles, would you like me to post links of the brave Israeli soldiers murdering kids in the West-bank? The brave Israeli soldiers systematically arresting kids between 5 and 10 in order to terrorize the Palestinians living in the West-bank? How they treat those children when they arrest them at gun-point. What their holding cells are like?
The Israelies are the terrorists. There are no rockets coming from the West-Bank. The Palestinians there live in a state of fear. Unlike Israeli where a handful of civilians were murdered over the last decade by ‘extremists’, literally hundreds of unarmed Palestinians in the West Bank have been murdered on the Order of the Brave Israeli government over the last 5 years.
Charles, please feel free to challenge me and i will post the You tube links for everyone to see and make up their own minds on who the terrorists and extremists are.

So Charles – As you dodged ” the Bullet” of the first thread ( how ironic the phrase ) , by not answering the question I posed to you – as you always do !
Explain ‘Whataboutery’ in this instance?
And why the Racism / Religious bigotry?

@fear…”not be bullied or hounded”… although ye try so hard to do that here. eg Eleanor pffft.

Motion ..you left out “Like us !” at the end …no thanks if it’s alright with you ..if the U.N . is bombed then nowhere is safe !

Ciara Ryan – Presumably Chairperson of The Irish Nazi Party ?
You are a really very weird person !
You really do need to catch up on authentic History and not just Nazi Propaganda !

@BucahaillCiarraí
Except it isn’t Nazis who are presenting the evidence to the contrary..

Irishman David McCalden is not a Nazi here he explains his motivations:
Holocaust Revisionism for Beginners by David McCalden – 5/8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU0Om01dshw

@BuachaillCiarraí
Holocaust Revisionism for Beginners part 1 – 1/5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIB-Q6sH9vY&list=PL449435DF07C8DBC9&bpctr=1408205858

How about this from Jewish David Cole who also points out contradictions and gaps in the accusation.
David Cole – The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz 1 of 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oinItLYg7qQ

@ Doc.

I think the correct term is Goyim. Gentile us used in polite company.

By the way, Goyim is not a polite term