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HEALTH MINISTER STEPHEN Donnelly has said victims of sexual abuse perpetrated by Michael Shine “will not be found wanting” in terms of any healthcare supports they need, but stated the decision to hold a public inquiry is matter for the Minister for Justice, Taoiseach and party leaders.
The health minister also raised the question if the decision to not publish a 2009/2010 report into the abuse should be revisited.
A group calling for a public inquiry into the sexual abuse carried out by Shine, who is considered one of Ireland’s most prolific paedophiles, broke their silence for the first time yesterday in a series of exclusive, in-depth interviews with The Journal.
Hundreds of men claim that they were abused by the former surgeon, now 93, over decades, but in 2024, he is a free man after serving just three years in prison.
A leading human rights law firm has now announced that it is acting for the group seeking a Commission of Investigation to probe claims that health and religious authorities failed to stop the abuse.
Many of Shine’s victims were treated by him at Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda, Co Louth, where he began working as a senior registrar in 1964 and was quickly promoted to consultant in 1968, staying at the hospital until 1995.
To date, more than 200 victims have settled civil claims against the Medical Missionaries of Mary. Many of the men were instructed to sign non-disclosure agreements, which meant that they could not talk to or support one another as they tried to recover from the trauma.
Shine was found guilty of assaults against nine boys at two trials, in 2017 and 2019, but campaigners believe there are many more survivors.
Taoiseach Simon Harris said yesterday that government will discuss calls for a public inquiry and commended the victims for speaking “with courage and in a vivid manner”.
“I want to thank them for that,” said Harris.
Speaking to The Journal, the health minister said his department’s focus is on supporting the survivors and supporting the patient advocacy group by working with them on healthcare needs for survivors.
“Any calls around a statutory inquiry is a matter for Justice [department]. I’ll leave any considerations of that to Helen McEntee and the Taoiseach and party leaders. It’s not a healthcare issue,” he said.
One report, carried out in 2009 by a High Court judge, sits unpublished due to a legal technicality over who actually owns the report. There was controversy at the time over the matter, with the then-health minister Mary Harney telling the Dáil that the judge had recommended that it should not be made public due to possible criminal proceedings that were ongoing at the time.
Donnelly referenced the report, stating:
“I am aware that there was a report done in 2009/10 and given to Mary Harney and the recommendation was not to proceed with further investigation, and I believe that was partly to not undermine some of the cases that were being taken by some of the survivors.
So you know, whether or not it’s time to review that, I think it’s a matter for party leaders, and a matter for Helen McEntee.
“But I want to make sure is that we keep working with the patient group to make sure that they get the supports they need. Because what happened was horrific.”
Donnelly added that what happened to the victims was “wrong”, stating:
We need to support them. From a healthcare perspective, if there are any additional healthcare needs that any of their members need, we will not be found wanting.
In terms of any steps towards an inquiry, the minister said he has “no doubt” government will reflect on the matter.
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Granted, I did think the ballot papers were worded poorly and had to do a double take on them, but the run-up to the referendum was so drawn out, I would have thought everyone knew a yes vote abolished the Seanad and a yes vote would set up a court of appeal??
A dangerous assumption.
I guess one shouldn’t assume anything, but if your voting, go to the polling station prepared for which way you are going to vote!
I’m sick of this bull***t about the ballot papers being confusing! The ballot papers were perfectly clear, I have heard of nobody who had any trouble with them. Even Enda Kenny could have understood what to do. More government spin and lies to make us vote again…enough is enough!!!!!!
I think it was more of the fact that the questions on the paper only mentioned the number of the amendment (I had to ask which one was the Seanad one).
Mark, the pictures above with the name of the proposed amendment, boxed, contradict that.
Lol well the ones I filled out clearly had the two names on them !! If they just had the numbers I would have freaked out !!
Would it have been illegal to print along the top of each relevant sheet – Do you want to abolish the Seanad? / Do you want to set up a new Court of Appeal?
Would it really?
I had to ask which was which as well. Granted I had forgotten my glasses, but there was an awful lot of text on the page. I did turn it over at one point to see if there was a side with English on it.
Should be an app for it.
Click the box to get rid of Seanad [ ]
Click the box to keep it [ ]
Click the box for establishment of the court [ ]
Click the box if yea don’t want it [ ]
If you couldnt figure out which was which, should you really be voting?
Well said!
If you’re less educated, in a rush or don’t understand Irish, should you not be allowed vote? Everybody should be able to vote. And it should be made as simple as possible, we have enough problems with turnout.
The paper was in both languages. You could simply skip the bit in Irish; there was no obligation to read it. Skimming and scanning text is something all literal humans do every day. I reckon it would take an average reader under 5 seconds to locate the words “Seanad Éireann” on one paper. You don’t even need to read the other one in detail then: it’s automatically for the court of appeal referendum.
It’s written in plain English and Irish on the papers.
“If you approve”
“If you do not approve”
That’s pretty straightforward. If a person didnt understand the referendum then that was their own fault. There was plenty of explanatory material available in advance.
People have a responsibility to find out all about what they are being given the opportunity to vote on.
Dont give out about the ballots papers if the only reasearch you did on the Referendum was to read the ballot paper when you got to the polling station.
I think the confusing part was people didn’t know which paper was which and it wasn’t clearly marked.
Legoman, it was clearly marked. One paper had the words “Seanad Éireann” and the other “court of appeal”. Again, you scan the text to find the words you need. This is a basic literacy skill.
It was clearly marked. In black and white/green
Ian, I think the point people are making here is the ballot papers could have been designed better. Keep all the legal stuff and the Irish, but what you are voting on should jump off the page at you, i.e. large font and in bold.
My issue with the ballot papers was that Irish seemed to be more prominent. When I first looked at them all I could see were words I didn’t understand and I had to do a double take to find the English.
I’ve never had that issue with any other ballot paper and a number of people were commenting on it at the polling station, so I would say there was an problem with the layout and wording of these particular papers.
The referendum commission is their to serve the people not test the people.
Great excuse to make people vote again if a ‘no’ vote is carried
Which means they know already its a no vote, delighted for the traitors. Kenny’s overlords wont be impressed!!
Angela,
I rarely comment online. I find the arguments people make too angry, too unreasonable, and too paranoid.
What has happened in your life to make you so cynical? I see you post on journal articles with ranting hopeless statements almost everyday.
The Irony of your point of view is that you believe our politicians are one hand entirely stupid and on the other organized, capable and efficient enough to pull off a national hoodwink.
Get on with your own life and stop making people miserable.
Huh? (no comment, you scare me Eoghan)
You gotta admit though, what is happening with the government and the times we are in are very frustrating – it is a good thing that people can vent their frustrations a little on the journal.
Eoghan, I think you will find that Angelas mistrust of the government and opinions are reflected by the vast majority of free thinking people on the journal. I quite enjoy her honesty and passion.
Oh what the heck, Ill reply
@Eoghan I find it odd that you are judging someones life by the opinions they post about Irish politics. Sure I am passionate about my people and country, I do not apologize for that. Am I afraid to express my views about my mistrust of the Irish government and their European overlords, no. I believe the vast majority of our politicians are parasites and have no interest in their people or country. I believe Enda Kenny is a liar, a coward, an imbecile and utterly incapable of leading a country in one of the toughest recessions we have ever had to face. I am not sure what you are referring to when you say they are ‘hoodwinking’ us all. They want a ‘Yes’ vote, if they don’t get a ‘Yes’ vote it seems logical to assume that they will use the confusion over the ballot papers to make us vote again..paranoid no, perfectly logical. Our government, your representatives answer to and are guided by Europe and senior civil servants which requires little acumen on their behalf. Everything you see in front of the camera, the speeches, soundbites, spin, excuses for this and that are dictated by highly paid pr professionals. If you consider these basic truths as me being cynical, fair enough, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion about me, Irish politics and Irish ‘democracy’ If a complete strangers posts on a screen about politicians are making you “Miserable” and so upset that you feel the need to attack me personally…I would genuinely suggest you take a long, hard look at your life and not take things so personally. I love my country, I love my people, I am sad to see people in power destroying my grandchilderens future. I will not apologise for that, nor do I think anybody else should. That said, I appreciate you taking the time to address me and needless to say you have managed to take yourself off my Christmas card list. I wish you the best for the future Eoghan
Feisty Irish grandmother – 1
Eoghan – 0
Owned!
Angela you are obsessed with this !!!
Hi Lauren. My only obsession is listening to Led Zeppelin and having a few sherries…Anymore poems lately?
Lol no but I’m always available to write poems on request !!
Id like to request a poem about todays vote please :)
Can I have one about a random giant Dragon?
(I need it for later)
Owed to Angela
Yes or no I’m waiting to see
I sit here and hope a no it will be
There is debate and confusion there is yes and no
Everyone has an opinion and is letting it show
Will a repeat vote be asked if Ireland says no
Some people think not but Angela thinks so
It’s hard to tell what our government will do
Will this be Lisbon treaty number two
No one knows what will happen, what way it will go
My friend Angela is hoping for a big fat no
All we can do for now is sit and wait
Get and journal.ie and have friendly debate
Owed to little Jim
Oh little Jim little Jim who went out to the club
He had a few drinks and a little bit if grub
On the dance floor he bumped into his mate called big Phil
Who pulled Jim aside and gave him a pill
Take this he said their bleedin great
So little Jim knocked it back and thanked his mate
Later that night Jim went home and felt happy
But he started to feel lonely and a little bit crappy
The door bell rang and made little Jim jumpy
He answered it and there was his friend lumpy
Lumpy was a giant dragon and was green and blue
He knocked on Jim’s door so he could use his loo
They ended up drinking and doing some shots
And rang around looking for some motts
But they weren’t successful so lumpy suggested they go for a fly
So little Jim climbed on lumpy back and they soared Into the sky
They flew through the clouds and Jim felt so good
But all of a sudden he was in a field and was covered in mud
He looked around looking for lumpy and realised he was indeed in the nip
Thinking about the pill it dawned on him it was all a big trip
@Lauren Fabulous!!! Well done, I loved it. Copying and pasting this one, TheJournal has now got a resident poet :)
I’ve posted them here for more people to appreciate Lauren
http://www.thejournal.ie/live-seanad-court-of-appeal-referendums-1115286-Oct2013/#comment-1665941
A word of warning though, resident poet on The Journal to Crack head in The Priory is not a huge step, don’t let the fame get to you x
Thanks Angela, you never know I jet get ‘discovered’ but judging by the red thumbs on the otter pages I won’t hold my breath . Some people just don’t appreciate a good deep poem.
Wow!! Your real name is the same of my fake one. I feel I should apologize….
Wow, anger, unreasonable and paranoid all in one post. We need you to post more here.
Its not a trick question, its either yes, or no
I think the problem is that it was not obvious which ballot paper was which. Each paper contained a lot of writing both in Irish and English, which included the legal wording of the proposed change. I know my 85-year-old mother had difficulty identifying them.
I think next election/referendum we’ll just get you a coloring book and some crayons.
Seems simple.
But at the moment of casting I wasn’t sure if the question was Do you want to keep the Seanad or do you want to abolish the Seanad, and embarrassingly, I panicked.
Voting isn’t something we do every day and it is momentous.
It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that this might happen. Along with the saturation of coverage on it.
I’m a sentient, reasonably intelligent person and I’m actually glad to read that other people got confused too.
In a referendum Yes is always for change. No is for keeping things as they are.
Where was the option ‘Can’t we all just get along’
How is it confusing? Its either yes or no!
Those that gave my comment a thumbs down actually wanted to give it a thumps up… Or did they? Now I’m confused!
Because the confusion wasn’t over the yes or no, thats why they red thumbed you
I have to agree after weeks of calling them ‘Abolition of the Seanad’ and ‘Court of Civil Appeal’ the wording was different and unclear focusing on the number of the ammendment and not the name. Not everyone has perfect eyesight and great reading skills and the ballot papers should reflect this.
the wording wasn’t different ballots say ‘abolition of seanad’ and ‘court of appeal’
Ok. I’m confused.
If you read the ballot paper. It says on it bla bla bla amendment to the constitution (court of appeals) bill 2013, bla bla bla amendment to the constitution (abolition of Seanad Eireann) bill 2013.
But which is which?
How should I vote? I mean it not like any of the posters had say a big yes or a big no on them suggesting which way I should vote.
I’m so confused.
Next time the guys in the polling office shouldn’t hand me a paper but should just instead act it out in the style of my most treasured reality show star.
This is rubbish. 2 of out every 3 people didn’t vote. Of those that did, anecdotally many hadn’t a clue what they were voting for and others were voting no just because they’ve issues with the Government.
There was a green piece of paper and a white piece of paper. There have been two clear issues being voted on and being discussed in public, in newspapers, on television and on poles all over the country. There are no excuses for being confused at the ballot box other than you couldn’t be bothered to educate yourself.
We deserve nothing more than to be governed by the Germans et al if this is the best we can do.
In all fairness some of the Fine Gael posters were saying vote no as where some of the Labour posters. The whole campaign was a shambles, but did we expect anything else from a shambles of a Government? Even the most high ranking Politician in the Country was afraid to go on live tv to debate the issue.
They must know it’s a no … Delighted lol
Idiots!
I find if you read the ballot paper first it usually helps. I mean WTF? How could there possibly have been confusion? Unless of course those confused thought there was only one referendum. Which has to make you wonder…
It wasn’t complicated, it just required reading. Those who were confused shouldn’t be let near a polling station.
Maybe in future it should be worded in TEXT Spk??? As that seems to be about the normal literacy level of the average Joe&Jane Irish these days.
Fine Gael government, Where YES or NO causes confusion.
I flipped it over to see if there was an English side.
Confusion over a basic ballot paper? sounds like someone in Fg HQ has fed that out in case the people did their homework (after the complete con job of Lisbon treaty)
Hopefully People not falling for lies on posters, more importantly how they avoided mentioning the whole accommodating the federalism of Europe…. Excuse for a re-run.
Ah here just read the thing. Do you want it in honours pass and foundation level, maybe pictures? Shouldnt be thrown by irish and english together its on the road signs. Just skip it.
Is it not time to get rid of the Irish completely off the ballot ?
Very limited appeal and does make the document more wordy.
I will probably be shot for saying this but would it not best to assume dumb on the situation and have it as simple as possible and explain it as if you were trying to explain it to a child to understand?
I am not trying to say everyone does not know what is happening etc but at least if it is explained initially as if you were explaining it to a child, then people cannot say that it was difficult to understand or confusion based around some areas of the referendums and then if needs be, the discussion can go more in dept for those who want it to.
If you aren’t able to comprehend the difference between the ballot papers when one says “Seanad” and the other says “Court of Appeal” and each of them has a yes and a no below them, will you really have grasped the concept of what the referendum was seeking to do?
I was a bit frazzled getting to the polling station, and forgot which paper was which immediately after the clerk handed them to me.. But simply reading them was enough to clear up any confusion, I honestly cannot understand how anyone could have remained confused having read the ballot paper.
herd them in like cattle, in a gate into lines give them the first paper then a pencil make them vote put the vote in a box then give them other don’t colour code them and say what it means tell them to read it its simple folks
123 READ VOTE POST
oh ya then let the gate open to let them out !
It’s done, to get the desired and anyone that thinks otherwise? Is brain dead, stupid or brainwashed!
I can’t edit my remark, to fix it and I’m wondering why?
Stephen
We all know why you need to edit your contributions and also we know why you are unable . However it’s a Saturday morning and we will refrain from stating the obvious so we don’t spoil your weekend.
I thought they were lovely comments. Very reminiscent of Finnegan’s Wake.
Didn’t need to understand or read to cast my vote. It was NO and NO both times. Simple!!!
It was a trick question confusingly written in language understood by a minority of voters.
Should be simple in 2 lines in English only
DO WE ABOLISH THE SENATE YES / NO
DO WE INSTALL A NEW APPEAL COURT YES / NO
What if you are dyslexic and struggle to read , no one available to assist you is there , no consideration for people who struggle, by all means state the proper wording but also simplifiy it underneath not everyone is capable and it should be taken into account and yes they should be included not isolated if they struggle at reading. only my point as a mother of dyslexics.
My understanding of dyslexia (from speaking to a friend who has it) is that they can read no problem, it’s the way things are printed that’s the issue.
For example – if you give him something printed on a certain shade of green paper, he has no problem reading it. Give him the same thing on white paper and it jumbles and blurs and he can’t read it.
He got glasses that are slightly tinted for this reason, said it works wonders. He also said different people work better in different colours – it’s something to do with the way the brain in processing it. His sister needed a different colour to him.
This would be the reason the clerks are there though. I was told which was which when it was handed to me – after all, you may have forgotten your glasses or anything – asking for clarification is perfectly ok – it’s what the clerks are paid for. Otherwise they could just have an automated machine tick you off and give you the ballot.
Can’t see how they were confusing
why do people not seem to realise that there is quite a high illiteracy level in some communities in Ireland, also should dyslexic people, or any other people that have difficulty reading be criticised for having issues with this because they couldn’t tell which was which? as the turn out was so low would it really have been that time consuming for people to be told which was which when they were being handed the papers? anybody who was criticising those who got mixed up should be ashamed for jumping the gun and tarring everybody with the same brush and get down off their arrogant high horse.
I was told which was which when it was being handed to me, and if you were confused – that’s part of what the clerks are there for.
I promptly forgot which paper was which as soon as I walked to the booth because I had been all over the place, but I scanned each one for the relevant words – one said “Seanad” the other said “Court of Appeal”, it was easy to figure it out from there thanks to the campaigns leading up to the vote.
Being dyslexic doesn’t mean that you can’t read – for some the fact that the ballot was printed black on white or black on green would have been the problem, and in that case – they would know to ask the clerk first.
Actually amend means “to add on, to make better”. Tnx
And by doing that you are changing it.. Wasn’t trying to be smart just explaining it didn’t mean it would stay the same.
To whomever thinks it’s as simple as saying yes or no to the Seanad, if u read the ballot paper in the first line these 2 words appear, amend or abolish, now in my mind amend means to keep something the way it is, abolish means get rid off, so of course I ticked no cos I didn’t want to amend it, until I looked again and realized the word abolish was wrote down too, soooooo I had to go to the woman at the desk and request a new ballot paper and all because the shaggers are trying to get us to vote wrong!!
Amend means change..
Hang on..
For weeks there’s been posters all over the place urging people to vote one way or the other. We knew that “Yes” meant abolishing the Seanad. We knew that “Yes” meant setting up the court of appeal – it was on all the posters supporting the motion (logic implies that “No” would preserve the situation as is).
Prior to entering the polling booth, most people would have made their minds up which way this was going to be, and therefore should have known that all they had to do was locate the “tá/yes” or “níl/no” box on the relevant ballot paper and tick the appropriate one..
Am I missing something? How could the ballot cause this much confusion? I am genuinely asking and not trying to be snide – I honestly fail to see how this could have been confusing, and would consider it a weak attempt to challenge the result by vested interests..
have your say