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THERE IS A shellfish crisis in west Cork and Kerry, resulting in some of Ireland’s top quality mussels being unfit to eat.
Some bays have been forced to close down for five consecutive months, said the Irish Shellfish Association.
Many farmers have had to watch their crops wash away during the winter storms instead of fetching premiums in top supermarkets and restaurants.
Producers from Castlemaine to Dunmanus Bay have been impacted, largely as a result of highly unusual algal blooms this winter.
Mussel crop
The Irish Farmer’s Association’s (IFA) analysis shows that up to 10,000 tonnes of top quality mussel crop has been lost to the elements or is now unusable.
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Richie Flynn, IFA’s Aquaculture Executive said the crop should have been sold in November, December and even January.
Some bays have been closed continuously since mid-2014 due to the extremely rare occurrence where algal blooms, which should have disappeared, stayed within the bays making the shellfish unsafe to consume.
Even if the bays were opened in the morning, prices have entered the annual cyclical slump and most of the crop has lost its quality appearance and size as it prepares for the spring spawning season.
By closing their harvesting operations, the mussel farmers have ensured consumers are safe, but the IFA said they have no control over the length of time these natural blooms can persist in the ocean.
Out of business
Producers are not arguing with the science or criteria which closed them down, but the IFA said many of these farmers have been out of business for many months.
Under EU rules, which recognise it can be extremely painful for producers, a special scheme to allow producers to stay in business was set up.
The IFA says the official recognition was enshrined in EU regulations over seven years ago.
It urged Minister Coveney to use these EU rules now to find a scheme to help dozens of small family businesses along the south west coast to stay in business.
This is the Minister’s chance to make a real difference and keep open as successful indigenous industry in an important economic black-spot.
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About time there’s a bit of cop on! “I’m off to the women’s changing rooms because I ‘feel’ like I belong there”. So tackle out in the middle of the girls changing room because I ‘feel’ like that’s my right?, and everyone else has to put up with this?
About time someone had a bit of cop on and stopped this nonsense! Well done South Dakota
You’re not understanding the situation though. Most transgender people perfectly pass in their gender but some body parts are mismatched. With this law what will happen is a bloke with beard and all but who was born with a woman’s body walking into the ladies and probably causing quite a stir, and a woman, skirt, make up and breasts walking into a man’s room causing also a stir. Tell me what the logic of that is. They are now both even at risk from assault by well meaning citizens who think they are in the wrong restroom.
Toilets are designed to accommodate both. Some people have an issue with it because their brains can only fathom black and white. Open your minds and stop twitching the curtains
As a self-confessed “liberal atheist” judging from the first post I see on your twitter, it almost certainly follows that you believe in materialism; correct? Then it necessitates that you also believe that the mind is a product of the material brain, yes?
If all the above is true, and the issue is with their brains, then how can they consciously control something beyond their brains’ capacity? You’re victim blaming™.
Tangentially, are you aware that Socrates was both socially conservative as well as a theist? Have you read actually any Socratic dialogues or are you just name-dropping to give your arguments weight with the truly uneducated?
Lurach, that’s a lot of assumptions you have made of me, all of which are wrong. You seem to consider yourself an expert on me as well as mental health and yet fail miserably in both departments. Keep trying, read a book sometime. It helps
Larissa it does not help your cause to start off attacking religious people and then go on and expect people to live and let live, when you have just done the exact thing you hate: “attack and bully”. Before you attack me also, I am on your side on this and understand the issues trans people have.
Like I said I am on her side on the topic. BUT she came out all guns blazing attacking “the religious right” . People on the religious right can be trans also and can understand trans issues also (ok maybe not the ultra ultra right) in the same way as the liberal brigade on here often attack trans people on forums or don’t get the issues. So don’t label people all the same is my message.
Once again the comment section of The Journal shows itself to be the pit of human ignorance. Small minded people usually have miserable lives, they spend too much time thinking about what other people do rather than enjoying their own lives. “Ban this, ban that, don’t do this, I don’t like that, what about me? What about me? WHAT ABOUT ME?????” No one cares about your opinion except for your friends that comment on a poor news website. What you need to do is stop worrying, the world isn’t going to implode from the issues you think will make it implode. If it doesn’t affect you personally then don’t bother worrying about it. That just makes you a small and petty person, living a sad and angry life. I pity those kinds of people, it’s not the way I live my life.
Larissa, why should anyone respect you or your beliefs when you are so overtly offensive to those with different belief structures to yours? You can’t call someone a bigot and ridicule their religious beliefs in the same breath, that is unless you particularly enjoy the title of hypocrite.
Larissa. I think you missed the part where I said I agree with you???? I have worked tirelessly with people with and understanding trans issues and trying to explain to the border public the issues and what’s involved, so thanks for the insults.
@Greg, I apologize, I had missed that part indeed, but I still stand by my earlier statement regarding the religious right and their obsession with the sexuality and genitalia of other people.
i acknowledge that not every religious person shares this vie, though in general most abuse against LGBT people comes under the guise of religion.
Larissa apology accepted. some people I know are trans and its their “sky fairy” and faith that keeps them mentally strong when coming up against their struggles. Some of the most amazing trans people are Christians and some have made it as pastors, preachers and even a nun. Look at the metropolitan church around the world ” Metropolitan Community Church is a place for all people. It is our founding belief that all are welcome at the table whether they are gay, lesbian, transgender”
Or just stop worrying about people seeing your little willy. Everyone got “naughty” bits, stop caring if other people see yours. And stop trying to label people. This obsession with who is what is daft. It’s a person. That’s a comprehensive enough. :P
@Greg, I wouldn’t class your belief as religious right, the religious right are for me all these people and parties who use specific phrases from the bible to deny LGBT people equal rights. And I fully accept that faith or spirituality can give people some comfort. I don’t believe in god, I’m not sure I believe at all, though I follow some Wiccan meditation rituals from time to time. I’m just sick and tired of sanctimonious people telling me, that my gender identity and sexuality are wrong, and that I’ll burn in hell for being transgender and lesbian, that’s why I kind of have a short fuse
It’s a pity that they do have to legislate for common sense, but it’s either that of face either vexatious discrimination law suits or huge construction fees for the reconfiguration of countless public toilets and restrooms in state-owned buildings.
Gender is determined not just by what’s between your legs or otherwise, but in your chromosomes. There’s no operation that will change that. If you struggle to accept this perhaps you need to speak to somebody such a psychologist or a psychiatrist to come to terms with it.
Gender-neutral public toilets, where cameras are not allowed, makes them the perfect hunting ground for pervs and sexual predators.
So, Brian, you would be happy to see a transman in the queue for the ladies toilets? A big and burly person with a full beard, who just happened to have been born with a vagina? But I guess, transphobic people like you ignore the fact that transmen exist, because it’s so much easier to hate on transwomen, since they ‘undermine’ your precious and fragile masculinity
I think you might be perpetuating stereotypes there. I’ve seen some big and burly women with a bit of beard who don’t identify themselves as men, they’re just women who have let themselves go a little, I guess.
Would you mind if a guy straight but a perv, and wearing a gúnna followed you into the women’s toilets just to get off on his own sick fantasies (at best) or to attack you (at worst)? There’s a reason one of the gunmen at the Regency wore a dress and a wig… It’s so unusual and jarring it distracts any witness from remembering even basic details such as height or eye-colour.
@Brian, can you provide any link or any source of when a trans woman attacked anyone in the bathroom?
Or is it that trans women and men are regularly beaten up, and even killed, for just who they are?
Maybe educate yourself, before spouting nonsense and calling transgender people perverts, because I think the only pervert here is you, and anyone else who is obsessing about the genitals of other people.
Lúrach, who are you to decide who has the right to choose? You clearly don’t understand what is involved when it comes to being trans. It’s not a choice, it’s not a whim, it’s not for the craic. It’s deeply traumatising for people who feel they are in the wrong body or are mislabelled each and every day.
It’s bot a mental illness, but we’ll done on showing your ignorance of the topic. I notice so many people who have an issue with trans people claim to be experts on mental illness….yet always get it wrong.
Socrates don’t try to educate the lurch and Brian, it’s obvious, they are uneducated trolls, all they can do is hate on people they don’t understand, rather then educate themselves.
Women/females of the species are biologically setup to have children (although many choose not to or cannot bear children but the infrastructure is there) men cannot. If you think you are a woman and are a man then there is something not functioning correctly… solving that issue is an adult choice – as children it is totally absurd to allow them to decide they are not the gender they are born with.
Brian I don’t think you know the issues here if that link is expected to show pics of transwoman. They are almost the exact opposite, in that drag artists almost take the mickey out of femininity for show, not embrace it full time.
A variant genotype for a gene called CYP17 has been shown to be the link to transgender identity.
So not a mental illness but a genuine genetic variation. Like many other genetic variations that people in the past were locked up for in mental hospitals and today no longer aren’t.
Time to stop the “mental illness” witch hunt of transgender people and indeed move on with common sense.
Also this ban will make it easier for genuine predators to get around.
Currently hundreds of trans people move through your life probably unnoticed by yourself (granted you don’t peep over walls of stalls in the bathroom to check out your neighbour’s equipment … if you do … well … that is a different story and I am sure you can get help for that).
With this ban, any male predator can walk into a ladies room and say “I was born a woman” or vice versa for a female predator walking into the mans room (after all they exist in all genders). So potentially they are making bathrooms far more dangerous places now.
Yea, those pesky predators. And remember, don’t allow your kids to trick or treat at halloween, there may be razor blades in the apples. Also, putting a beer mat on top of your drink when you go for a smoke stops it being spiked. For more information see the documentary “Urban Legend”.
That study is only in its infancy. Does not really clear up a lot. Some people think they are Jesus, other people might think they are women, but are men….see where I am going with this ? The gene idea is intresting, but I imagine a small percentage are genuinely transgender.
If it’s so certainly not a mental illness why are their suicide rates so high, both pre and post op? Quoting societal exclusion must be accompanied by evidence of a causal link.
Because of people like you, Liam, who think it’s their bl**dy god given right to question the identities of trans peopel and to bully them where they find them.
I’m not bullying anyone, I’m asking a question. That gender dysphoria is a mental illness was dismissed on this thread without any evidence to support such a dismissal. Stats show abnormally high rates of suicidality in sufferers of gender dysphoria, which would appear to indicate it either is a mental illness, or is linked in some way to mental illness. If you can’t answer the question please don’t feel you should abuse me instead, would be best to just wait for somebody who perhaps can answer it.
Transphobia creates significant stresses for transgender people which can lead them to feel shame, low self-esteem, alienation and inadequacy. Transgender youth often try to cope with the stress by running away from home, dropping out of school, using drugs or cutting, suicide rates among transgender people are especially high, because of how they are treated by their families and by society.
Suicide attempts reported by transgender and gender non-conforming adults vastly exceed the rate of the general population, 41 percent versus 4.6 percent
But you’re not showing a causal link, only a correlation. And to dismiss that argument, the only community with comparable rates of suicidality to sufferers of gender dysphoria were Jews living under Nazi rule. Unless you contend that sufferers of gender dysphoria in the west suffer similar abuse and societal exclusion as Jews suffered under Nazi rule, then your explanation can offer only part of the picture but is insufficient to explain the rates of suicidality we see in the trans community.
” the only community with comparable rates of suicidality to sufferers of gender dysphoria were Jews living under Nazi rule”
You’ve answered your own question there Liam. What you are doing is the worst form of bullying. You are making assumptions about people that are not you, that you will never know what it is to be like and spreading them with such conviction that other people will follow you. The Nazi’s did that. Imagine being a Jew in 1933 and reading what the papers were saying about them, and listening to what people on the street say about them. The change Jew to trans and have a look at what you are doing to that community. I find you a shameful person with zero compassion all in an effort to exclude. You do know what you are writing here could very well lead to a trans person committing suicide? How does that make you feel? Are you man enough to stand by what you say if it kills someone? You seem morally hollow, with little care for what your words do to people, all so you can be heard on a news site.
Btw John, to counter the personal abuse you provided in lieu of anything bordering on a coherent argument, I also find you a morally hollow person. Any community that has 41% suicide attempt rates should be helped. An help certainly does not mean whatever you think will help should be done – it means adopting an unbiased scientific approach to the problem in an effort to find solutions. Shouting abuse at people for presenting facts which you did uncomfortable does not solve any problems, it actually exacerbates them by silencing valid questions.
Depending on the time period. 1939 to 1945, probably not. 1933, definitely yes. In it’s infancy Nazism would have been very frightening for Jews. Reading comments like yours is very frightening for trans people. Jews suffered fear of attack in public in 1933. Trans people feel the same today. Both feel that just because of who they are, they have done nothing to anyone. Do you agree that your viewpoint is harmful to people and may result in death? Will you stand by your comments if the are actually linked to committing suicide? Answer honestly.
“to counter the personal abuse you provided in lieu of anything bordering on a coherent argument,”
” it means adopting an unbiased scientific approach to the problem in an effort to find solutions. Shouting abuse at people for presenting facts which you did uncomfortable does not solve any problems, it actually exacerbates them by silencing valid questions.”
Saying that trans people suffer the same as Jews in 1933 Germany, or that my questions could lead to someone’s suicide are opinions, incorrect opinions IMHO, but certainly opinions. That 41% of people suffering from gender dysphoria will attempt suicide at some point in their lives, and that gender reassignment surgery does not reduce this figure by a statistically significant amount are facts. Opinions =\= facts – do you understand the difference?
Answer my question if you want me to answer. If someone killed themselves because of what you post online, would you stand by your comments?
” Opinions =\= facts – do you understand the difference?”
Facts change, science continually proves that. What was fact in the 1800′s may not be fact now.
“Saying that trans people suffer the same as Jews in 1933 Germany, or that my questions could lead to someone’s suicide are opinions”
So then why did you state.
” And to dismiss that argument, the only community with comparable rates of suicidality to sufferers of gender dysphoria were Jews living under Nazi rule. Unless you contend that sufferers of gender dysphoria in the west suffer similar abuse and societal exclusion as Jews suffered under Nazi rule, then your explanation can offer only part of the picture but is insufficient to explain the rates of suicidality we see in the trans community.”
You can and can’t contend that it is comparable to the Nazis. To say, “is insufficient to explain the rates of suicidality we see in the trans community.” is an opinion.
No, you are misunderstanding me. I said the suicide rate amongst the trans community is comparable only to the suicide rate of the Jewish community living under nazi rule (not in 1933 incidentally, specifically during the years of the war). That is not an opinion, it is a statistical reality. That the Jewish community’s rate was so high during the war because of societal pressures is perhaps opinion, but I would contend a supportable one.
You cannot say that if someone in a community that suffers a suicide attempt rate of 41% attempts suicide that it will be due solely to comments I have posted. That is such a ridiculous position as to be unworthy of counter.
Do you accept that a 41% suicidality rate is abnormally high (approx 10 times the average)? Do you accept that other communities suffer similar bullying and societal exclusion as transgender people (travellers, Romany, people of colour in some societies) but do not suffer anything even similar to a 41% suicidality rate? Therefore, can you not understand that to assign the abnormally high suicide rate of trans people solely to bullying is illogical?
Most importantly, do you care that so many trans people are committing suicide? Are you more interested in being right on, or actually helping people?
“You cannot say that if someone in a community that suffers a suicide attempt rate of 41% attempts suicide that it will be due solely to comments I have posted. That is such a ridiculous position as to be unworthy of counter”
That is an opinion.
” Therefore, can you not understand that to assign the abnormally high suicide rate of trans people solely to bullying is illogical?”
That is an opinion.
“Most importantly, do you care that so many trans people are committing suicide? Are you more interested in being right on, or actually helping people?”
That is asking me an opinion.
Didn’t you ask me if I understand what an opinion is?
I have a very good friend that’s trans, she suffers greatly because of comments like yours. That is a fact. For that reason I call out people like your good self who like to post what they think about other peoples lives. You should know that what you write has direct impact on people. You mention other groups that suffer, but the difference is that travellers, Roma, etc have an immediate group that surrounds them. A trans person does not. A trans person only has the hope they will be accepted. What you write pushes them further back, because it is clear they are not going to be accepted any time soon.
There is a difference between a supported opinion and a simply stayed opinion.
What have I written that you find so offensive exactly? That a 41% suicidality rate is eye wateringly high, and is comparable only to the suicidality of Jews under nazi rule – what’s offensive about that? That gender dysphoria may be linked to mental illness and this could, in part, help to explain such a high suicide rate – what’s offensive about that? I suffer from mental health problems, do you think I should ashamed of that, or what precisely is it about linking something to mental health issues that’s so wrong?
“There is a difference between a supported opinion and a simply stayed opinion.”
Why? What is the reason? Is the reason another opinion? Is it more people agree with that opinion? A lot of people are of the opinion that a god watches everything they do, doesn’t make it real.
What offends me, and it’s not just you but this entire comment section, is people having “opinions” on other peoples lives. Trans people are just people, they don’t need to have their lives dissected by others. I think it is amazing that you can say aloud you suffer from mental health problems. I fully support you. I understand that you suffer. What I won’t do is give you fact or opinion on your issues, you know far more about it than me and my input would only be damaging to you. The best I can offer is I understand, or I’m behind you. Would you like a thread of comments discussing negatively what your mental health issues are? Maybe claiming they are not real, or that the symptoms are from something else when you know they are not? And doing so vehemently? It’s simply not right, especially given your statistic of 41%. In fact it’s downright dangerous.
I do think people should discuss issues pertaining to mental health issues, yes. Discussions are often where solutions are found, burying our heads in the sand is the old, and not terribly successful, approach.
I’m not saying anything negative about trans people. I’m very much libertarian in my outlook, so if someone wants to surgically alter their gender then let them off, doesn’t effect me so why would I care. Where I do begin to care is when a suicide rate like we’ve been talking about exists in any community, and a PC rather than a scientific approach is adopted to solve it.
I’m not denying that bullying and exclusion could play some part in such a high rate, but my constant reference to Jews in the war is to illustrate that abuse and exclusion alone simply cannot justify a rate of 41%.
You asked me how id feel if people were discussing my issues, and disregarding or ridiculing me – I wouldn’t feel great about it to be fair. However, that would still be preferable to thinking nobody is doing anything to actually try and fix the problems I have, and I fear that that is what is happening to trans people. Just keep offering gender reassignment surgery, ignore the fact that this surgery is demonstrably not solving whatever underlying issues exist in gender dysphoria that causes such suicidality, and cash the cheque for the surgery.
Sometimes difficult questions must be asked to find the right answers.
Liam, being transgender in itself is not a mental health issue. However due to bullying , exclusion and sometimes physical assault, trans people are more exposed to mental health problems during their life, such as depression, anxiety, ptsd and so on. It is those problems that causes them to consider suicide, not the fact that they were born trans. Also, no, I don’t think at all you should be ashamed yourself at all, nobody with mental health problems should be ashamed.
The real problem for trans people is acceptance. They face very real violence when they go outside. They are not looking for us to fix their problems, they are looking to be allowed to be seen as normal in society. This currently is not the case, reading the comments here is just a part of it.
Anyways, you seem like an intelligent guy, and you are well spoken and polite in your debate, so I apologise if I have caused you any offence. It was really directed at other people here. This is an issue I am close to so I speak out more on it than I probably should. I’m out, that’s enough debating for me, I’ve life that needs to be lived now. I would just ask that people show empathy rather than seeking solutions for trans people, because they want empathy more. Professionals can deal with solutions. Peace out fella.
What people want and what people need are not always the same thing, I’ve learned that myself. I don’t accept that exclusion or even risk of violence is the sole, or even primary, factor in a suicide rate so high. I find the blind acceptance of many that this is the sole factor for such suicide rates in the absence of any verifiable causal link to be dangerous. I don’t mean to offend anyone with my comments, but a 41% rate of suicide attempts in any section of society is deserving of a lot more attention than the current PC approach being adopted.
No worries anyway John, I’m fairly thick skinned so would take a lot more than this discussion to wind me up!
Statistics have shown that young trans people in the US sent to conversion camps to convert them back to being “normal” have higher suicide rates than trans young people that are accepted by family and society around them. So much so that the suicide rates of those that were tried to be “cured” are through the roof high. So yes, I am quite convinced that the way society looks and treats trans people has a large impact on their mental health. Also you can’t cure transgender people. They can transition to their gender physically and this will help them through their life easier, same as you cannot cure someone born without legs, but giving them prostethic legs will help them get around in life.
I’m not saying that anyone should be “cured” of transgenderism, I’m saying stats indicate there are other underlying issues that are inexplicably being ignored. To say that trans people are more susceptible to certain mental issues does not mean that transgenderism is in and of itself a mental illness, but the stats don’t lie. For example, homosexuality, particularly in men, is associated with above average intellect, and above average intellect is associated with higher levels of depression. These correlations have been shown statistically: does this mean we should try and cure people of homosexuality, cure people of high intelligence, or accept that gay and/or clever men are more inclined to depression and deal with that fact? Blaming society is a never winning battle, helping individuals is the better approach IMHO.
Liam, I was not aware of that link between homosexual people and intellect. It it an interesting way to look at it and I am not dismissing that there might be other links. I was more worried from your initial posts that you were implying that transgender in itself was a mental health illness and these people needed a psychiatric intervention to make them not transgender. Problem is that despite the fact we misunderstood each other here, a lot of people still think that trans people need to be cured or to be given a good slap around the head so they start acting “normal”. It is those people that are very much a concern to trans people trying to live a normal life as a trans person.
To be honest Samuel, while I’m not explicitly stating that gender dysphoria is mental illness, I wouldn’t dismiss it either. I honestly only found out about the suicidality rate in trans people quite recently and hence the interest, but c.40% suicidality is crisis point, and I think the whole issue needs to be approached scientifically and in an unbiased manner to try and find solutions. No preconceptions, just study the issue as a whole, because at present the only treatment appears to be gender reassignment, which does not reduce suicidality, so perhaps gender reassignment surgery shouldn’t be conducted, or perhaps it should along with other treatments, or perhaps a different angle I can’t even contemplate should be adopted.
Basically, I don’t know what’s causing it, nobody really knows, but a lot of people have decided their opinion on the matter is definitely correct. All the while, 41% of trans people will attempt suicide, god knows how many more will live in darkness. When you reach crisis point in anything you have to keep an open mind to try to find solutions, and an open mind can mean uncomfortable answers to problems faced.
liam, instead of worrying about your ‘scientific approach’ and your ridiculous statement about gender reaffirming surgery, why don’t you just campaign for society to accept trans people as normal people, teach parents not to reject their trans children, and so on.
I’m certain whatever you think you know about gender identity, there is more to be discovered. Your advice towards anyone who “struggles to accept this” I can imagine is nearly as frustrating to people who feel trapped in a body not suited to them then as the fact they are enduring that. It shows those awesome people you have no idea, no understanding. It’s pretty daft dude.
As for sexual predators, they don’t exist because of “perfect hunting” grounds. While I don’t think it’s necessary to have unisex toilets all over the place. It’s certainly not necessary to ban them. There are plenty of places where they would be an advantage.
And how is this law going to be enforced? Will there be someone controlling people’s genitals? This is plain discrimination, and I just can’t understand, why the religious right are so interested in other people’s sexuality, or what set of genitals they possess. This bill is beyond ridiculous
Cool, and while were at it, why don’t we built separate bathrooms for coloured people,because separate but equal worked out so well the last time around?
Not just their genitals, Larissa. Their chromosomes too. A quick DNA test while you’re bursting for a whiz!
Some people will of course be perplexed to discover that their chromosomes don’t match their genitals. Whether such people will be allowed to choose the bathroom they use, denied entry to both or be assigned one based on either chromosomes or genitalia is not clear.
A variant genotype for a gene called CYP17 has been shown to be the link to transgender identity.
So not a mental illness but a genuine genetic variation. Like many other genetic variations that people in the past were locked up for in mental hospitals and today no longer aren’t.
Time to stop the “mental illness” witch hunt of transgender people and indeed move on with common sense.
Schizophrenia and autism both have a demonstrable genetic component and they are both still mental illnesses because, believe it or not, your genes also produce your brain.
Wrong though, they are not mental illnesses. They are a disability and it is indeed the brain at work, but it is not a mental illness.
Also we do not lock people with autism in asylums anymore by default (or with schizophrenia), do we – only if they have other issues along side this that makes them violent to themselves or others. So my point made exactly that a genetic variation is not a mental illness.
So the L,G and B should ignore the T, even though the T suffers discrimination too. You advocate throwing them under the bus for personal gain? No thanks
Obvious troll is obvious, yes, of course lets throw trans people under the bus, it’s ok to discriminate them, because they’re a minority, you f*cking hateful eejit!
Think your both missing the point that he is making lads. Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual is your sexual orientation while transgender is your gender identity. Separate things completely. Yes you may be transgender and gay, lesbian or bisexual, as is often the case but they are still separate things. For example when filling out a for that asks your sex you answer ‘male’ or ‘female’ not ‘yes please… with a man.’.
Who said anything about allowing discrimination? Simply saying Gender and sexual orientation are two completely different things. Think the original point being made was that for example many black people are women but that doesn’t mean black rights activists should fight for womens rights. Doesn’t mean its ok to discriminate against one or the other. They are just different issues.
” Yes you may be transgender and gay, lesbian or bisexual, as is often the case but they are still ”
Wrong, the % of gay and lesbian trans-gender people is the same as the % of gay and lesbian cis-gender people. Most trans people are hence straight. Which for them makes it equally awkward to use the opposite gender facilities, same as it would be for a cis-man to use the ladies room.
Also I have heard comments from gays/lesbians before that transgender people should be removed from the LBGT community … well they are accepted now in most countries … so no need for them to help other people get accepted I guess.
Somebody once told me the biggest negative response he got at work after coming out as trans was from a guy in his department who was gay. Not sure what the chip on the LGB shoulder is…
Jax Maxwell, I’m a lesbian trans woman, why do you want to drop the T to exclude me from the LGB community? Is my sexuality not valid because I’m trans, what is your problem?
Honest question, if your a man identifying as a woman but like men is that person gay or straight? like by straight to you mean the man identifying as a woman likes women…. if so would that not make him a lesbian?
Also, I don’t think its a chip on their shoulder as such but just a knowledge that being gay and being transgendered are separate issues one being your sexual preference the other not being sexual at all but being gender preference. While everyone wants equality I think they have different needs thus stretching and diluting the goals of the LGBT movement somewhat.
Jax Maxwell, I ask you again, why do you want to exclude lesbian or gay trans people from the LGB community? What makes their sexuality different to the sexuality of cisgender people?
No Larissa your still missing the point. Apart from anything else if your a lesbian you would be part of the LGB community why would you be excluded? As a trans person do you not see your sexuality as separate to your gender?
My point exactly Larissa LGB is nothing to do with your gender. Your a lesbian woman so you are part of the LGB community nothing to do with your gender. Socrates I answered her question, again don’t know how you keep missing the point but as I said in my earlier post with regards to you… I give up, lost cause.
Stiofain … sounds like you have issues with your masculinity and the fact that you are gay. The fact you feel the need to humiliate and discriminate against trans gender people makes you behave exactly the same like homophobic haters that would make hateful comments about you being gay.
And your statement is so ignorant: “LGB rights are being held back because men in dresses who want to use the ladies insist that they are part of the same group as LGB people.”
Most trans gender people (both male and female) usually just want to live their life in peace and without having to act like somebody they are not every day of their life. Remember like gays had to pretend to be somebody they are not every day of their life when being gay was considered something people should b locked up for?
Stiofán, bisexual people are a different minority to gay people, black people are different to aboriginal. Should we fight discrimination. On those grounds separately
My god can you actually not see how stupid that statement is even? Bisexual and Gay= sexual so they are discriminated for the same reason i.e. because of their sexual preference is different to the straight majority. Black people and aboriginal= race so they are both discriminated for the same reason i.e. because they are a different race from the white majority. Do you get it yet or do we need to explain some more?
Jax Mawell, I am trans and lesbian, you still haven’t told me why you don’t consider me part of the LGB community? What about gay trans men? Do you remember who fought at the Stonewall riots for LGBT right? Guess what, trans women of colour!
Have you not read my comments? Never once said I don’t consider you part of the LGB community actually actively said on three occasions as a lesbian woman of course your part of the LGB community why wouldn’t you be? Same with Gay men of course they are part of the LGB community. Why would they be? What I’m saying is gender has nothing to do with LGB (nor does race or colour since you have strangely brought that up & why is it exceptional that trans women fought for trans rights?) Stop trying to be a victim, your not.
Jax, you’re very angry, inarticulate and making poor points. You just don’t get what we are saying or see the value of the current situation. If that makes you angry, so be it, but stop attacking others because you lack an understanding.
You have a fundamental lack of understanding about what the LBGT community is. Leave the Journal for 5 minutes and Wikipedia it or something.
How are the masses being discriminated against? LBGT people are more forward thinking. It’s your silly sensibilities that worry so much about what a person is or isn’t but rather prefer them to just be whatever they want. Therefore you are the one holding everyone else back by trying to keep the archaic system of dual toilets.
No! If both genders start sharing bathrooms they’re gonna get all ridey on each other and the universe will collapse! This is a very serious issue! Cop on, Michael!
Stiofain … sounds like you have issues with your masculinity and the fact that you are gay. The fact you feel the need to humiliate and discriminate against trans gender people makes you behave exactly the same like homophobic haters that would make hateful comments about you being gay.
Usually these homophobic people are people uncomfortable with their own identity … so sorry to see you feel so uncomfortable with yourself, but I suggest you address that with yourself rather than attack trans gender people as your outlet for frustration.
And no transwomen don’t want to force their way in women’s space or transmen in men’s space (what is a woman’s or man’s space anyway?). They usually just want to live their life in peace and without having to act like somebody they are not every day of their life.
The Journal’s readers confuse me, everyones awfully Liberal on many situations, then when it comes to immigration and, evidently, transsexuality, we are all of a sudden Cruzesque conservatives
The level of discrimination on this thread is incredibly depressing……..
I’m at a loss as to the level of vitriol directed at people that want to change their biological gender or believe they were born into the wrong one.
What exactly do you think is going to happen if a Trans women uses a Ladies instead of the Mens toilets? Beyond making them feel so much better about themselves and more comfortable in who they believe they are.
Is your distrust of Trans people so extreme you think they’re deliberately lying about their gender orientation to do what? Attack people? Spy on people? (says more about you then them if you do……)
Like seriously, what is it you’re so feckin afraid of?
That Trans people deliberately expose themselves to the sort of transphobic sh!t being demonstrated on this thread just so they can sneak into the Mens loo?
Sometimes I think we’ve come so far, then I read the comments on stories like this and it just makes me sad…….
Very well said Tricia. People fear what they don’t know and they’re angry at people not fitting their binary norms. Very strange, people so afraid change
Tricia, the problem, I think, is that most of the ‘brave’ transphobic keyboard warriors here are so insecure about their fragile masculinity that they see a trans woman as a personal attack on them, or they’re afraid they may find a trans woman attractive.
It’s typical of every post pertaining to trans issues. The bigots are attracted to it like a moth to a flame.
Ireland still suffers from its socially conservative roots, but we’re definitely moving in a positive direction.
Solidarity to any trans person reading this, we will win.
The reality is, trans people that “pass” for their correct gender rather than their biological one won’t have any hassle. It’s the ones that don’t that I feel sorry for, because judgemental idiots will assume they will attack people for no reason other than ignorance.
About time, if only because there is very little privacy in American bathrooms/toilets.
There is usually gaps in the doors of the cubicles, so it’s a no brainer to put a stop to this nonsense.
All public places, such as shopping centers, should have at least one unisex toilet anyway. What happens if a Dad brings his 3 or 4 year old daughter to the shops and she needs to go to the bathroom. Should he have to bring her to the mens?
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